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Caponata

Caponata 151

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16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean, there's a shitload of this:

flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u3.j

Some investments don't pay off right away.  Having an educated population is one of those things.

It actually would have been better if you had paid LESS for your education, had the previous generation kept funding higher education at the levels it was funded when they attended college, for example.  That would have made college more accessible for more members of your generation, it would have meant that you wouldn't have spent so much on your education, leaving more dollars in your pocket to be invested in buying a house sooner, or something like that.  

That didn't happen.  But I gotta tell you, "I took it up the ass, so all future generations also need to take it up the ass" is a really terrible argument.  

If we want this country to have a successful future, then we should invest in the things that will make that happen: its people.  

And I get it.  By the time those investments truly pay off, you and I will probably be dead, or old enough that we can't appreciate or enjoy it.  Such is life, especially as a member of Generation X.  It's still the smart investment to make.  Because if we don't, things will only get worse, not better.

Planting the seeds and nourishing the plants that will grow into trees that will bear fruit in 25+ years won't benefit me much, if any.  But if we don't do it now, we won't have nearly enough fruit-bearing trees as a country when we need them in 25 years.  So, it's what we need to do. 

Eating all the grain we socked away for winter absolutely benefits me, especially if I think I'm old and probably won't live to see another spring.  But it  utterly fucks the people who are depending on that seed stock to plant the next round of crops next spring.  We have a responsibility to future generations.  I wish that the last generation (the boomers) had felt that way, but they didn't.  That's no excuse; just because they made shitty choices doesn't mean that we're excused from doing the right, and different, thing.

But, I know that I'm shouting into the void.  Me me me mine mine mine now now now.  And who cares about what things look like after I'm gone.  That ethos has won, completely and totally.  So, enjoy for now.  You'll probably be dead before your kids and grandkids can cuss you for the legacy you've left them.

"Fuck anyone that gets a better deal than me"

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hpslugga
hpslugga
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Just to clarify what pieces of shit Joe Rogan, RFK Jr., and Elon Musk are. The doctor in the clip above has dedicated his life to developing vaccines and treatment for poor people suffering from tropi

Beau Vine
Beau Vine

The only time I've ever listened to him was basically under duress.  I had an old friend and his lunatic wife who were basically begging me to watch the youtube clip of his podcast with Brett Weinstei

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28781

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4 hours ago, Goredho said:

I'll totally agree that reality TV shows often don't deal in reality, but if you want to debunk what one depicts, the burden of proof actually *is* on you.  You state something that could have happened (the old switcheroo) and provide no evidence that it did.  You are basing your belief that the switcheroo happened solely on your distrust of reality TV shows, and that is just your own confirmation bias at work.  Further, David Copperfield actually cannot make the statue of liberty disappear.  It's contrary to the laws of physics.  But two fame hungry thots absolutely could chug a gallon of donkey juice each.

Finally, the point isn't that those videos are real.  Let's take your assertion at face value and say that the donkey juice episode was 100% made up bullshit for TV.  So Joe Rogan projected a fiction where contestants pretended to drink donkey piss and jizz.  He did it to entertain people, attract viewers, get higher ratings and make more money.

Is a person like that -- who has no problem dealing in fiction presented as reality in order to build their empire -- a reliable source of medical information that could have life and death consequences?  For me, no.

But your donkey juice mileage may vary, lol.

The burden of proof is always on the one making the assertion. I didn’t see anyone drinking donkey semen or donkey urine. I saw actors drinking fluids they called donkey semen and donkey urine. That which asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. Show me one continuous shot of the donkey urinating and that urine going into a person’s mouth. Otherwise I’ll assume you replaced a urine glass with one filled with apple juice between shots  

I remember the first time I saw an episode of that show. I was visiting friends who were watching it. I couldn’t believe they bought into that crap. They had “contestants” (i.e. actors) drink some concoction supposedly made from rotten fish or something like that. They scooped the carcasses out of this big tank and put them in a blender, pulverized it, and poured it into glasses. But in the shot where the actors were supposedly drinking the stuff, whatever they were drinking wasn’t even the same color or consistency as we’d seen in the previous shot. It was clearly not the same substance.

Those shots could’ve been filmed on different days. They could’ve conceivably filmed the shots where they were drinking the goop a day before they filmed the shot of them blending the rotten fish. How they splice it together and narrate it doesn’t make it reality. They’re putting on a play. It’s fakery.

In that same episode they had a “contest” where the beautiful girl is handcuffed to the steering wheel of a shiny sports car suspended off the top of a tall building. The hero had to climb down a rope ladder, free her, and carry her back up to safety before time ran out and the car would crash down to the ground. You can’t actually do that. You can’t risk someone actually getting killed on a stunt like that. Both actors were secured by wires. Plainly visible. The guy didn’t even use his feet while being lowered down the rope ladder and raised back up again after “rescuing” the helpless young maiden. It was a total farce. Then after they had returned to safety, the car was cut loose and it landed between two big oil drums on the ground which exploded in big fireballs. The car didn’t explode, of course. I’m sure it was just an empty shell. Why wouldn’t it be? No, there were pyrotechnics in the two big drums that made a big flash and my friend gasped as if she was actually watching something real. I felt bad for her boyfriend. If that had been my girlfriend I would’ve dumped her right then and there.

They’re putting on a weekly show. They can’t risk injury to their actors nor running out of people willing to consume disgusting and potentially dangerous substances. to appear on their show every week. No, the burden of proof is on them. If I didn’t see it, it didn’t happen. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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25 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Your party buying their votes with free shit, more so. 

I'm not a Democrat, so I probably agree with you more than you realize when it comes to how to lift people (i'm more of conscious capitalism, widely-available quality education, and intelligent regulation).  Maybe you're different than that, I dunno.  I certainly know the progressive wing of the Democratic party has a very different view of those three steps than I do.  Anyway, I get it...promising people free shit in exchange for their votes and dependency is certainly a thing.  It's a broad-brush statement but we can break it down on another thread.  But it has happened and is happening in many respects.

But the only thing worse than promising free shit for a vote is promising a lie.  And the only thing more costly than a government promissory note is a simple and elegant message that costs almost nothing to broadcast but has crippled our country, and I doubt we'll ever walk the same way again:

"Your country is under attack from people who believe differently than you.  And I'm the only one that can stop them."  

The only thing more frightening than my distrustful fear of the whole of government is your loving allegiance to just one, solitary man of unprecedented flaw.  

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105142

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24 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That’s kind of the thing. I’ve spent my life working so they won’t. It’s called taking care of your business, and people used to believe in it. 

If I recall, you worked really hard and are bright and attended college on scholarship, right?  Then went into a lucrative field that afforded your kids private school, European vacations, and hell, gap years across the pond to find themselves.  Suffice you say it’s likely easier to have your outlook once you’ve “made it”.  I’d like for my kids to attend private schools too, and travel to Europe, and be able to attend private colleges. Grow up in a house valued in the 7 figures. And every extra dollar that comes out of my pocket to pay for John’s overpriced degree he didn’t completely think thru diminishes that chance. I’m glad that mine, mine, mine doesn’t suit you, now that you and yours are more than sorted, financially.  

I don’t recall what it was but I put it in the other thread. Something to the tune of 350k was the opportunity cost of me paying back my wife and my loans like we agreed to. Wonder what kind of money I’d have had I been able to invest that in Austin real estate 16 years ago now.  350k is life changing money to lots of Americans.   

See the bold.

The State of Texas made an INVESTMENT in me.  Guess what?  I went to a public university.  Every dollar that I didn't pay in (and since I didn't pay in ANY, that means "all the dollars") had to come from other sources.  And because it was a public university, the source was public dollars -- taxpayer funds, pretty much.

I am -- and my success, and staying in Texas to be that successful and spread the wealth -- the textbook payoff of an investment of public funds.

As for "taking care of your business, and people used to believe in it," bullshit.  Even WITHOUT a scholarship, when I went to UT, a student could pay his own way through school working 26 hours a week (at a typical college-type job) and full time over the summer.  Now.....the same student would have to work 50+ hours a week, 52 weeks a year (functionally impossible to do AND attend school).   

And I wish you didn't HAVE to take out 350k in loans.  You're making my point FOR ME.  What if you'd only had to take out $100k in loans, and had that extra $250k to pour into buying a house, saving for retirement, etc.?  THAT'S what things look like when society invests in its people.  You got fucked.  You did.  It sucks.  And you worked hard, and dug yourself out of the hole -- you worked hard, and did right by yourself and your family.  But it's never a sound answer to say "I got put in a hole, I dug my way out....let's keep putting people in the same hole and make them dig their way out!"  Oh, and I didn't grow up with a silver spoon.  I lived a firmly middle-class existence.  I did go to a private high school (with a lot of kids who came from families with more money than I can dream of even today), but that's because my parents sacrificed, drove shitty cars for a long time, didn't have many luxuries, etc.  Family vacations were a trip to the coast, maybe a drive to see family in Mexico.  So I know a life that's a whole lot less prosperous than mine today.

I certainly don't propose "free everything, and Fatty's gonna pay for it!"  How about this....how about we just go back to society investing as much in its future as it did 30-50 years ago?  Back when you could attend UT by working 20+ hours a week.  Back when we built new roads and bridges.  Shit like that.  Yeah, that's paid for with our taxes.

I do very well.  I'm smart.  And I have worked hard.  But I didn't get here by myself.  My dad had a steady job with the gov't (taxpayer funded).  I went to a public university (paid for with public dollars).  America and Texas invested in me.  The investment paid off.  I'd be an utter dick to want to pull up the ladder now.

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7050

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1 hour ago, Caponata said:

What team supports that? The current team just removed free junior college from their platform. If you can direct me to a team that's supports things like healthcare, daycare, college, and not trillions.on war I'm on board.

Team Bernie did. Also Liz Warren had some of that as well. 

Biden is not progressive at all. He was never going to do shit for the American people but unlike the last guy just not be shitty enough to try to overthrow the government and make himself a dictator. 

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4058

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1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

I forgot, it’s the outlier degens on the R side that “control the party”.
 

They don’t control the party; they are the party.

You’ve lost the game if you think those soccer hooligans have anything useful to contribute to society. Their own national committee recently declared that January 6th was “legitimate political discourse,” hardly any of their representatives voted for Trump’s impeachment, and hardly any of their senators voted to convict. They’re not a political party; they’re a cult. They are, as Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein put it, “an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

But not with the D’s. Those are outliers and the rest are middle roaders.  Got it. 

They have the current votes to push through all those things you mentioned and they haven’t even come close to doing it. Seriously, they nominally control the Senate, they have control over the House, they control the White House. They have the ability to:

-Forgive all student debt
-Pass M4A
-Pass UBI
-Enact universal college, Pre-K, etc
-Increase the minimum wage to any fucking number they want 
-Increase the number of sitting SCOTUS judges from 9 to whatever the fuck they want it to be (which would let them take all these pet causes to court and cement them further into the law and make them damn near impossible for successive GQP rule to undo them)
-Torch the filibuster into ashes
-etc

and they have the ability to do it without a single Republican vote. And they don’t do it. Gee I wonder why that is.

 

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Nivek

Nivek 16930

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On 2/8/2022 at 10:49 AM, 52-80 said:

1 Million dead.  That's pretty sensational.  Can you tie the threads together and just ballpark how many of those JR was responsible for?

When a large group of people work in concert to dig up poorly constructed sound bites and publicly pressure companies to "hold him accountable", what do you call that? 

**

This crazy rambling doesn't sound like a Joe problem.  It sounds like a You problem. 

Something in Joe strikes something in You, so now he suddenly the embodiment of all these other things you dont like - hellodixiekittyjiffylimbaugh - and becomes this target you fixate on.  And now you've all birthed this 50 page thread about he's the demon behind the mic.  That.... is a mob.

This was such a pathetic response.  

You try to attack the number that 90X,YZA, Is not close to 1 million.  And fail miserably.  

Then you make a claim without evidence and present it as truth, that people are working in concert to dig up material on Joe Rogan.  Since you have established your credibility as to posting deceptive pictures and quotes out of context in the past you are required to cite information for anyone to believe anything you post in ernest.   You did not make any such citation.  Furthermore, you also failed address that these soundbites are in fact, real.  Now they may be out of context as well, such as with one of the previous videos which was then followed up with an extended video to provide context.

It was not a crazy rambling.  It was coherent, easy to follow, and modeled of a previous post of yours, which includes irrelevant information, which has fuck all to do with the discussion at hand.  Such as you trying to compare Ms. Paltrow's scented candles and harmless products (to my knowledge, however maybe they burn down houses at a higher rate than those Jesus lottery candles), is your attempt to conflate and distract.  And it failed because no one here is as simple as those you are used to communicating with.    I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you didn't actually understand that.  But let me spell it out further.  Spreading disinformation promoted by hostile foreign actors is not the same thing as selling scented pussy candles, especially when one has a large audience and an intrinsic responsibility to not harm the society he lives within.    

Your last idiotic point was pure projection.  You failed to read that I actually have a familiar affection for Joe Rogan because he speaks with the cadence and style that my deceased uncle used before him, including the non-verbal noises he makes.   He was also a shorter predominantly Italian dude who was bald and a fit due to his years of auto-handyman work, so there is a physiological familiarity as well.   I have also watched some decent stand-up by him in the past and a lower caliber one that had a few items but he seemed like he wasn't really into it.   I have heard a few episodes when he has Bill Burr and I somewhat agreed with him when he thought children under the age of 18 should not be allowed to obtain gender altering surgery.    So once again, you completely fucking failed at this point because, you don't do your homework, have no fucking idea who you are talking to, and you don't even bother to put forth even a minimal effort beyond being a shit slinger.   I do like how you closed with the tired old rhetoric of claiming to be the victim in all of this.  I feel so bad for you and Joe.   I mean Joe Rogan cannot even laugh at the N-word jokes any more without getting into trouble these days, Tahoe Jr (see if you get that reference).   

I know this might seem a little humiliating and well it should.   You really will never be taken seriously until you 1) create a new name (but you will be found out) or 2) seriously think about what you did wrong and try to adapt.  I believe most posters would be happy to welcome someone who a different perspective provided they didn't act like a smug middle schooler, or a petulant child when presented with facts that challenge their view or run away like so many (all) of you do.  

 

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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So this is who is behind the recent compilations:
Created in quarantine by three brothers, MeidasTouch is a pro-democracy, next-generation super PAC founded by three siblings (and lifelong Democrats) with the primary goals of protecting American democracy, defeating Trumpism and holding Republicans accountable.

That’s not accurate.

They’re the ones who went viral tweeting it THIS time.

That N word compilation has been around a few years; as has the Planet of the Apes and misogynistic and transphobic clips.
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Gourmand

Gourmand 7774

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11 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

I forgot, it’s the outlier degens on the R side that “control the party”.

 

12 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

They don’t control the party; they are the party.

My pos congressman on Jan 7th 2021

 

And  here he is one year later, one week prior to the RNC declaring Jan 6th legitimate political discourse.....

 

 

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Nivek

Nivek 16930

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Posted
1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Your party buying their votes with free shit, more so. 

Would you care to look up the explosion of the national debt during the previous administration due to the tax debt?  And Bush, And Reagan and Obama I guess due to inheriting Bush's wars and the economic collapse.  

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Nivek

Nivek 16930

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28 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

#BoThSiDeS

So you make a claim, and when challenged you respond with a poor attempt at humor as it was misappropriately applied.  

The claim was democrats promise free shit to get elected.  I asked you to compare and contrast that with facts about who keeps giving away free shit by spending like crazy.  But you either refuse to see it, or do not want to see it, but republicans hand out more welfare and free shit than Democratic Party members do.  You just can't see it/touch it so you pretend it doesn't count.    Another classic example of facts having a liberal bias it seems.  

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956 Worldwide 34715

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1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The burden of proof is always on the one making the assertion. I didn’t see anyone drinking donkey semen or donkey urine. I saw actors drinking fluids they called donkey semen and donkey urine. That which asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. Show me one continuous shot of the donkey urinating and that urine going into a person’s mouth. Otherwise I’ll assume you replaced a urine glass with one filled with apple juice between shots  

I remember the first time I saw an episode of that show. I was visiting friends who were watching it. I couldn’t believe they bought into that crap. They had “contestants” (i.e. actors) drink some concoction supposedly made from rotten fish or something like that. They scooped the carcasses out of this big tank and put them in a blender, pulverized it, and poured it into glasses. But in the shot where the actors were supposedly drinking the stuff, whatever they were drinking wasn’t even the same color or consistency as we’d seen in the previous shot. It was clearly not the same substance.

Those shots could’ve been filmed on different days. They could’ve conceivably filmed the shots where they were drinking the goop a day before they filmed the shot of them blending the rotten fish. How they splice it together and narrate it doesn’t make it reality. They’re putting on a play. It’s fakery.

In that same episode they had a “contest” where the beautiful girl is handcuffed to the steering wheel of a shiny sports car suspended off the top of a tall building. The hero had to climb down a rope ladder, free her, and carry her back up to safety before time ran out and the car would crash down to the ground. You can’t actually do that. You can’t risk someone actually getting killed on a stunt like that. Both actors were secured by wires. Plainly visible. The guy didn’t even use his feet while being lowered down the rope ladder and raised back up again after “rescuing” the helpless young maiden. It was a total farce. Then after they had returned to safety, the car was cut loose and it landed between two big oil drums on the ground which exploded in big fireballs. The car didn’t explode, of course. I’m sure it was just an empty shell. Why wouldn’t it be? No, there were pyrotechnics in the two big drums that made a big flash and my friend gasped as if she was actually watching something real. I felt bad for her boyfriend. If that had been my girlfriend I would’ve dumped her right then and there.

They’re putting on a weekly show. They can’t risk injury to their actors nor running out of people willing to consume disgusting and potentially dangerous substances. to appear on their show every week. No, the burden of proof is on them. If I didn’t see it, it didn’t happen. 

Joe, the moon landing stuff is more interesting than your theories about animal semen. 

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52-80

52-80 19159

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1 hour ago, Nivek said:

This was such a pathetic response.  

You try to attack the number that 90X,YZA, Is not close to 1 million.  And fail miserably.  

Then you make a claim without evidence and present it as truth, that people are working in concert to dig up material on Joe Rogan.  Since you have established your credibility as to posting deceptive pictures and quotes out of context in the past you are required to cite information for anyone to believe anything you post in ernest.   You did not make any such citation.  Furthermore, you also failed address that these soundbites are in fact, real.  Now they may be out of context as well, such as with one of the previous videos which was then followed up with an extended video to provide context.

It was not a crazy rambling.  It was coherent, easy to follow, and modeled of a previous post of yours, which includes irrelevant information, which has fuck all to do with the discussion at hand.  Such as you trying to compare Ms. Paltrow's scented candles and harmless products (to my knowledge, however maybe they burn down houses at a higher rate than those Jesus lottery candles), is your attempt to conflate and distract.  And it failed because no one here is as simple as those you are used to communicating with.    I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you didn't actually understand that.  But let me spell it out further.  Spreading disinformation promoted by hostile foreign actors is not the same thing as selling scented pussy candles, especially when one has a large audience and an intrinsic responsibility to not harm the society he lives within.    

Your last idiotic point was pure projection.  You failed to read that I actually have a familiar affection for Joe Rogan because he speaks with the cadence and style that my deceased uncle used before him, including the non-verbal noises he makes.   He was also a shorter predominantly Italian dude who was bald and a fit due to his years of auto-handyman work, so there is a physiological familiarity as well.   I have also watched some decent stand-up by him in the past and a lower caliber one that had a few items but he seemed like he wasn't really into it.   I have heard a few episodes when he has Bill Burr and I somewhat agreed with him when he thought children under the age of 18 should not be allowed to obtain gender altering surgery.    So once again, you completely fucking failed at this point because, you don't do your homework, have no fucking idea who you are talking to, and you don't even bother to put forth even a minimal effort beyond being a shit slinger.   I do like how you closed with the tired old rhetoric of claiming to be the victim in all of this.  I feel so bad for you and Joe.   I mean Joe Rogan cannot even laugh at the N-word jokes any more without getting into trouble these days, Tahoe Jr (see if you get that reference).   

I know this might seem a little humiliating and well it should.   You really will never be taken seriously until you 1) create a new name (but you will be found out) or 2) seriously think about what you did wrong and try to adapt.  I believe most posters would be happy to welcome someone who a different perspective provided they didn't act like a smug middle schooler, or a petulant child when presented with facts that challenge their view or run away like so many (all) of you do.  

 

Wow, that was a touching biography. You dont like what Joe says but are conflicted because your affection for his resemblance of your uncle.  

That sounds, now more than ever, a You problem. 

Buttercup, if youre into forensic digging, my username has been the exact same for 10 years across shurlybevo, and im definitely not changing it on account of your personal psychological turmoil over a podcast host. 

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Nivek

Nivek 16930

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Wow, that was a touching biography. You dont like what Joe says but are conflicted because your affection for his resemblance of your uncle.  

That sounds, now more than ever, a You problem. 

Buttercup, if youre into forensic digging, my username has been the exact same for 10 years across shurlybevo, and im definitely not changing it on account of your personal psychological turmoil over a podcast host. 

So you opted with the petulant child approach as I predicted after that second text-based whipping.   I'll let you off the hook now, have a nice weekend kid (God I hope you are a kid, cause that was some weak ass shit).

 

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52-80

52-80 19159

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So you opted with the petulant child approach as I predicted after that second text-based whipping.   I'll let you off the hook now, have a nice weekend kid (God I hope you are a kid, cause that was some weak ass shit).

 

Do you rehearse this cool-guy stuff in your head before you type them out on the internet? 

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tchookem

tchookem 3900

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Posted
For the eleventy billionth time, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences you fucking rubes.
Considering how many of them have had to create multiple socks because of the stupid shit they say here, you'd think they'd get it by now. Oh well, can't fix stupid.
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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27562

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

The welfare kings in United States:

B10ADD7B-B376-4F50-8E41-DF22134368CC.thumb.jpeg.81275e0963cd78aeae367b76c6c5b65c.jpeg

Did any of you PPP takers pay it back?  That was a direct transfer of money to you. 

I’m pretty sure the people who took ppp and didn’t use it to pay employee salaries or rent/mortgage to keep their business open (which lets them keep paying employee salaries) are in jail or just waiting to get found out and the going to jail. Do you know how ppp works?

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m pretty sure the people who took ppp and didn’t use it to pay employee salaries or rent/mortgage to keep their business open (which lets them keep paying employee salaries) are in jail or just waiting to get found out and the going to jail. Do you know how ppp works?

You should read the working paper on the effectiveness and efficiency of PPP that provides the data for this chart. I linked it below. 
 

We now have enough data to study the effectiveness and efficiency of PPP.
 

And please let me know if that answers your question. I would appreciate your perspective when you have the time to read it. It’s a full access working paper available through MIT. I found it illuminating. 
 

https://economics.mit.edu/files/22761

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27562

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Posted
1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

You should read the working paper on the effectiveness and efficiency of PPP that provides the data for this chart. I linked it below. 
 

We now have enough data to study the effectiveness and efficiency of PPP.
 

And please let me know if that answers your question. I would appreciate your perspective when you have the time read. It’s a full access working paper available from MIT. I found it illuminating. 
 

https://economics.mit.edu/files/22761

I’m not reading a 47 page academic paper. If you want to hit the highlights go ahead. I will say very little the govt does is done efficiently. I can tell you in terms of efficacy it kept the lights on and the salaries paid for many small businesses, mine included. 20 employees would have lost their income for 3 months or more without it. The criteria for forgiveness iirc was you had to maintain the same level of staffing at the same compensation, all forgiven funds had to fall under certain criteria, and at least 60% of the funds had to go to payroll. Not sure about the 2nd round because we didn’t need it. 
 

It should have been prioritized for small and medium sized businesses, but the larger businesses had to follow the same rules for forgiveness 

 

I mean I guess you could have the govt pay the employees directly and let them stay home but you will not convince me that that is better than paying to keep them working

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

I mean I guess you could have the govt pay the employees directly and let them stay home but you will not convince me that that is better than paying to keep them working

You would enjoy the paper. It is thorough. It’s only 28 pages. The remaining 19 pages are citations to data and prior studies. It’s an easy read.
 

To your point, it’s not a political discussion, so your preference for direct transfers to employers is not part of the issues studied. It is merely compiled data and analysis with policy recommendations when this tool is used in the future.  Here is the abstract:

The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) provided small businesses with roughly $800 billion dollars in uncollateralized, low-interest loans during the pandemic, almost all of which will be forgiven.
 

With 93 percent of small businesses ultimately receiving one or more loans, the PPP nearly saturated its market in just two months.

We estimate that the program cumulatively preserved between 2 and 3 million job-years of employment over 14 months at a cost of $170K to $257K per job-year retained. These estimates imply that only 23 to 34 percent of PPP dollars went directly to workers who would otherwise have lost jobs; the balance flowed to business owners and shareholders, including creditors and suppliers of PPP-receiving firms.

Program incidence was highly regressive, with about three-quarters of PPP funds accruing to the top quintile of households.

This compares unfavorably to the other two major pandemic aid programs, enhanced UI benefits and Economic Impact Payments (i.e. stimulus checks).

PPP’s breakneck scale-up, its high cost per job saved, and its regressive incidence have a common origin: PPP was essentially untargeted because the United States lacked the administrative infrastructure to do otherwise.

The more targeted pandemic business aid programs deployed by other high-income countries exemplify what is feasible with better administrative systems. Building similar capacity in the U.S. would enable greatly improved targeting of either employment subsidies or business liquidity when the next pandemic or other large-scale economic emergency occurs, as it surely will.

PPP was far less effective and much more costly than the UI in saving jobs. PPP transfer payments to businesses came at a cost of $258,000 per job.  That’s ridiculous.

As for prosecutions, here is the data from the DOJ. I hope you are right about catching all the bad actors. 

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/cares-act-fraud

For those who received PPP loans and bemoan all the Commies and Socialists, may they remove the planks from their eyes. That is not directed at you Doc. 

Edited by washparkhorn
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4058

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, maninblack said:

Joe's pod with Dave Smith killed. Hope you pussies had a good day.


I’m gonna post that video every time you perform that fake tough guy routine. You are wishing upon a star that one of us will be naive and/or stupid enough to fall for that.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, maninblack said:

Joe's pod with Dave Smith killed. Hope you pussies had a good day.

Where was it killed? It’s listed on Spotify.

I fast forwarded that episode to see if the content was there and randomly stumbled on the guest calling himself a libertarian. Libertarians can sound reasonable about a particular idea but then you hear their detailed ideas on govt spending. It’s usually this hyper capitalism that all roads should be privatized and have tolls. Or something similar. It’s shows a 5th grade level of critical thinking.

smith talks in facts he learned from a message board. No one should listen to that.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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HenryJames

HenryJames 66052

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

You would enjoy the paper. It is thorough. It’s only 28 pages. The remaining 19 pages are citations to data and prior studies. It’s an easy read.
 

To your point, it’s not a political discussion, so your preference for direct transfers to employers is not part of the issues studied. It is merely compiled data and analysis with policy recommendations when this tool is used in the future.  Here is the abstract:

The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) provided small businesses with roughly $800 billion dollars in uncollateralized, low-interest loans during the pandemic, almost all of which will be forgiven.
 

With 93 percent of small businesses ultimately receiving one or more loans, the PPP nearly saturated its market in just two months.

We estimate that the program cumulatively preserved between 2 and 3 million job-years of employment over 14 months at a cost of $170K to $257K per job-year retained. These estimates imply that only 23 to 34 percent of PPP dollars went directly to workers who would otherwise have lost jobs; the balance flowed to business owners and shareholders, including creditors and suppliers of PPP-receiving firms.

Program incidence was highly regressive, with about three-quarters of PPP funds accruing to the top quintile of households.

This compares unfavorably to the other two major pandemic aid programs, enhanced UI benefits and Economic Impact Payments (i.e. stimulus checks).

PPP’s breakneck scale-up, its high cost per job saved, and its regressive incidence have a common origin: PPP was essentially untargeted because the United States lacked the administrative infrastructure to do otherwise.

The more targeted pandemic business aid programs deployed by other high-income countries exemplify what is feasible with better administrative systems. Building similar capacity in the U.S. would enable greatly improved targeting of either employment subsidies or business liquidity when the next pandemic or other large-scale economic emergency occurs, as it surely will.

PPP was far less effective and much more costly than the UI in saving jobs. PPP transfer payments to businesses came at a cost of $258,000 per job.  That’s ridiculous.

As for prosecutions, here is the data from the DOJ. I hope you are right about catching all the bad actors. 

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/cares-act-fraud

For those who received PPP loans and bemoan all the Commies and Socialists, may they remove the planks from their eyes. That is not directed at you Doc. 

Why are you like this?

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