Thing$ $till not going well for Joe Rogan, I $ee.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's worse than that.  It's a split on the most fundamental level.

There's a simple principle: "we should give a shit about other people."  Not only can we not agree on that principle, which to anyone sane, seems like the most non-controversial idea you could have....a large swath of our population so despises that principle that they purposefully endeavor to work AGAINST IT.  You're  not doing "right" unless you're "hurting the right people."  It's fucking insane.

"We should give a shit about other people."  And the response is "not only no, but hell no, and if you give a shit about other people, you're a communist socialist probably muslim terrorist who should GTFO of America!"

We are all living together in the same house as roommates and we don’t like each other and wish we could afford our own place. Everything has a shelf life.

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

We are all living together in the same house as roommates and we don’t like each other and wish we could afford our own place. Everything has a shelf life.

Cool, cool.  I get it.

But at no point in time does "I'm going to make this house miserable for ALL of us, including myself" become a sane approach.  Yet that's the approach of 30-40% of the country right now.  "I'll shit on the couch, because fuck you I have freedom, it's my house too!".....just results in us having a couch with shit on it.   So nobody can sit there.  And the whole fucking living room stinks and is covered with flies.  Man, you really showed US!

[hookemATL 11596]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  I get it.

But at no point in time does "I'm going to make this house miserable for ALL of us, including myself" become a sane approach.  Yet that's the approach of 30-40% of the country right now.  "I'll shit on the couch, because fuck you I have freedom, it's my house too!".....just results in us having a couch with shit on it.   So nobody can sit there.  And the whole fucking living room stinks and is covered with flies.  Man, you really showed US!

one roommate is trying to chill out, eat chicken wings, smoke weed and listen to Dark Side of the Moon.

the other is microwaving fish, sticking his dick in the peanut butter, and crying about how fat girls wont touch his micropeen.

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, hookemATL said:

one roommate is trying to chill out, eat chicken wings, smoke weed and listen to Dark Side of the Moon.

the other is microwaving fish, sticking his dick in the peanut butter, and crying about how fat girls wont touch his micropeen.

Look, fucker....I like my fish served hot.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  I get it.

But at no point in time does "I'm going to make this house miserable for ALL of us, including myself" become a sane approach.  Yet that's the approach of 30-40% of the country right now.  "I'll shit on the couch, because fuck you I have freedom, it's my house too!".....just results in us having a couch with shit on it.   So nobody can sit there.  And the whole fucking living room stinks and is covered with flies.  Man, you really showed US!

You are missing a fundamental piece in your analogy. The 40% aren’t doing things they don’t like also, to spite the 60%. They engage and embrace and like and believe in the behavior that the 60% find abhorrent (and visa versa). A better analogy would be a bunch of wild animals always partying and acting crazy and trashing the place because they love having fun and their dads have a job for them anyways and the other studious roommates annoyed they have to live in filth and beer cans and cigarette butts and the house smells like moldy beer and “can they please just put on pants in the common areas!!!!”

Again, we are a country full of people who don’t like each other, at the base level, and that is a new phenomenon in American history. No longer does sharing a passport mean we share a bond; the internet has changed this. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

one roommate is trying to chill out, eat chicken wings, smoke weed and listen to Dark Side of the Moon.

the other is microwaving fish, sticking his dick in the peanut butter, and crying about how fat girls wont touch his micropeen.

This is an even better and apt analogy. + rep.

[troph 24547]

I agree we have no commonality and that's a moral hazard in and of itself.  I was instructing my teen driver on why and how to let people in front of you when driving.  I said you need to do this, it will make you nicer, kinder and happier in all aspects of your life.  I was kind of surprised I made those statements, but I think those little things help.  we all need to be our brothers keeper in the small and in the large.

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

You are missing a fundamental piece in your analogy. The 40% aren’t doing things they don’t like also, to spite the 60%. They engage and embrace and like and believe in the behavior that the 60% find abhorrent (and visa versa). A better analogy would be a bunch of wild animals always partying and acting crazy and trashing the place because they love having fun and their dads have a job for them anyways and the other studious roommates annoyed they have to live in filth and beer cans and cigarette butts and the house smells like moldy beer and “can they please just put on pants in the common areas!!!!”

Again, we are a country full of people who don’t like each other, at the base level, and that is a new phenomenon in American history. No longer does sharing a passport mean we share a bond; the internet has changed this.

No, there's actual fucking self-harm going on with the 40%.  They pursue a shitload of paths precisely and ONLY because it spites the 60%....even though it's also harmful to them.  It's fucking harmful to the 40% not to get vaccinated -- they are at a much higher risk of contracting a serious illness, the are enhancing the risk that the virus will find a reservoir and mutate to a more harmful form, etc.  It's the perfect example of the metaphorical cutting of your nose to spite your face.  They "like" their behavior based on the single criterion of "the libz hate it."  That's it.  If they believed that it would piss off the libs for them to go around shooting their own dicks off, we'd have emergency rooms crammed full of dudes with gunblasted dicks, and man, they really showed us, didn't they!

If a behavior would benefit another person -- even if NOT doing that behavior would harm the actor -- these actors choose the behavior, because again, the key is not just "not helping other people," it's outwardly demonstrating how much you'll do to HARM other people.  It's a fucking mass psychosis.  It's not a difference of opinion.  We're not arguing about whether the local library should be expanded, or whether trash pickup should be moved from Tuesday to Thursday.  We're disagreeing about the most fundamental of human principles -- should we be shitty to each other, or not be shitty to each other?  And we have 40% of our population who treat being shitty to other people like the holiest of sacraments.

[Al_4_ISU 12408]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

No, there's actual fucking self-harm going on with the 40%.  They pursue a shitload of paths precisely and ONLY because it spites the 60%....even though it's also harmful to them.  It's fucking harmful to the 40% not to get vaccinated -- they are at a much higher risk of contracting a serious illness, the are enhancing the risk that the virus will find a reservoir and mutate to a more harmful form, etc.  It's the perfect example of the metaphorical cutting of your nose to spite your face.  They "like" their behavior based on the single criterion of "the libz hate it."  That's it.  If they believed that it would piss off the libs for them to go around shooting their own dicks off, we'd have emergency rooms crammed full of dudes with gunblasted dicks, and man, they really showed us, didn't they!

If a behavior would benefit another person -- even if NOT doing that behavior would harm the actor -- these actors choose the behavior, because again, the key is not just "not helping other people," it's outwardly demonstrating how much you'll do to HARM other people.  It's a fucking mass psychosis.  It's not a difference of opinion.  We're not arguing about whether the local library should be expanded, or whether trash pickup should be moved from Tuesday to Thursday.  We're disagreeing about the most fundamental of human principles -- should we be shitty to each other, or not be shitty to each other?  And we have 40% of our population who treat being shitty to other people like the holiest of sacraments.

I feel like we need to make this happen, as a society.

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, troph said:

I agree we have no commonality and that's a moral hazard in and of itself.  I was instructing my teen driver on why and how to let people in front of you when driving.  I said you need to do this, it will make you nicer, kinder and happier in all aspects of your life.  I was kind of surprised I made those statements, but I think those little things help.  we all need to be our brothers keeper in the small and in the large.

Spoken like a true pussy communist who hates America.  Seriously, that's how 40% of the country thinks of you.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

I agree we have no commonality and that's a moral hazard in and of itself.  I was instructing my teen driver on why and how to let people in front of you when driving.  I said you need to do this, it will make you nicer, kinder and happier in all aspects of your life.  I was kind of surprised I made those statements, but I think those little things help.  we all need to be our brothers keeper in the small and in the large.

That’s smart and good, not only for the higher order reasons you outlined, but also practical in that America of 2021-beyond is so infested with mental illness you never know who you are going to set off and if it could kill you.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, there's actual fucking self-harm going on with the 40%.  They pursue a shitload of paths precisely and ONLY because it spites the 60%....even though it's also harmful to them.  It's fucking harmful to the 40% not to get vaccinated -- they are at a much higher risk of contracting a serious illness, the are enhancing the risk that the virus will find a reservoir and mutate to a more harmful form, etc.  It's the perfect example of the metaphorical cutting of your nose to spite your face.  They "like" their behavior based on the single criterion of "the libz hate it."  That's it.  If they believed that it would piss off the libs for them to go around shooting their own dicks off, we'd have emergency rooms crammed full of dudes with gunblasted dicks, and man, they really showed us, didn't they!

If a behavior would benefit another person -- even if NOT doing that behavior would harm the actor -- these actors choose the behavior, because again, the key is not just "not helping other people," it's outwardly demonstrating how much you'll do to HARM other people.  It's a fucking mass psychosis.  It's not a difference of opinion.  We're not arguing about whether the local library should be expanded, or whether trash pickup should be moved from Tuesday to Thursday.  We're disagreeing about the most fundamental of human principles -- should we be shitty to each other, or not be shitty to each other?  And we have 40% of our population who treat being shitty to other people like the holiest of sacraments.

The reason your whole screeds are wrong are because they are built off a keystone or cornerstone block of something that is not correct. So then everything you cascade forth, based off that one assumption, is completely off. It’s like in a theorem or proof; you have a wrong starting point so the whole thing is wrong even if the logic isn’t. 

In this case it’s my opinion and experience that you are wrong in that 40% of deplorable are acting solely out of an interest to hurt others and so they will tolerate hurt/pain on themselves. I believe like you, they are hurting themselves and not in their own interest, but (unlike you) I don’t think they see it that way.
 

My proof is because When they do see it that way they are not shy in being hypocritical (e.g. XYZ for thee but not me).

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[956 Worldwide 34313]

27 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

We are all living together in the same house as roommates and we don’t like each other and wish we could afford our own place. Everything has a shelf life.

The key difference, on this issue, is that one segment really doesn't like the other but also would prefer that none of us die with a ventilator tube down our throat.  The other side is so full of spite that they'd be happier if we all died choking on our own vomit than to take a L.

[956 Worldwide 34313]

14 minutes ago, troph said:

I agree we have no commonality and that's a moral hazard in and of itself.  I was instructing my teen driver on why and how to let people in front of you when driving.  I said you need to do this, it will make you nicer, kinder and happier in all aspects of your life.  I was kind of surprised I made those statements, but I think those little things help.  we all need to be our brothers keeper in the small and in the large.

This reminds me of my dad teaching something similar.  At one point, I did something legal but a bit aggressive and when he called me on it, I said "yeah, well, but the other guy would have been at fault."  And he called me a dumbass and said the point is not to get in a wreck.  And dad was right. 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

For me personally, I was not okay with the lockdown of economy and business closures being extended and so, while initially hesitant if not resistant, so I got the vax. I think most people who are anti-vax are probably also anti-lockdown, etc. which I think is problematic.

This is one of my in-laws in a nutshell.  I should have prefaced this by saying she's a qanon nut and huge Trumper (I think if she'd had the money, she would have been in D.C. back in January), but she has this whole "LOCKDOWNS ARE TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT CONTROL" schtick going, which is fine, but then she's all "VACCINES ARE GOVERNMENT CONTROL".

You can point out to her that it was not the feds locking states down, but Republican states were doing lockdowns ordered by Republican governors, including here in Texas.  And lockdown is a really fucking loose term, given that we weren't being kept inside our homes by the cops or anything, but that matters not.

Telling her that if she and everybody like her would just get the fucking vaccine, we could get closer to herd immunity, get closer to opening everything up wide open, and get away from masks, it doesn't matter.

I honestly think some of these people will never be satisfied after their guy lost, and Rogan does not help things by providing such a platform.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

Hey, he’s an admitted moon landing denier (or used to be, I can’t be sure). Anything is possible with people like that.

When he was pushing that shit, that was it for me.  I'll occasionally listen to a snippet of a specific guest, but there's entertaining and interesting conspiracy theories, like the JFK stuff, some of the UFO stuff (particularly these days), but when he was pushing the Apollo truther bullshit, there's nothing entertaining or interesting about it at all, it's fucking stupid.

[heso 2748]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's worse than that.  It's a split on the most fundamental level.

There's a simple principle: "we should give a shit about other people."  Not only can we not agree on that principle, which to anyone sane, seems like the most non-controversial idea you could have....a large swath of our population so despises that principle that they purposefully endeavor to work AGAINST IT.  You're  not doing "right" unless you're "hurting the right people."  It's fucking insane.

"We should give a shit about other people."  And the response is "not only no, but hell no, and if you give a shit about other people, you're a communist socialist probably muslim terrorist who should GTFO of America!"

 

7 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

We are all living together in the same house as roommates and we don’t like each other and wish we could afford our own place. Everything has a shelf life.

The thing is, there always has been and always will be a group of people that wanted themselves to succeed regardless of what tole it took on another group of people. Most people wanted the country as a whole to succeed, thought it would be nice if the American dream was accessible to everyone, but only really cared about themselves succeeding. 

What has changed is that one political party has convinced millions of people that the only thing that matters is hurting another group. That those people over there want to destroy your way of life, take your money, and take away everything you enjoy, so all you need to care about is electing people that will hurt them. Your success doesn’t matter right now because all that matters is hurting them. Give us some of your money and we’ll make sure that they don’t take more of it. They’ve convinced the rubes to act against their own self interest in the name of hurting other people more. 

It’s not that most Americans don’t have a shared set of values. It’s that one party and its media arm has convinced millions of people that most of the media, doctors, scientists, universities, big businesses, actors, artists, anyone living in a city, everyone who wasn’t born in the US, are all conspiring against you to take away your money and freedom so you need to trust us.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The key difference, on this issue, is that one segment really doesn't like the other but also would prefer that none of us die with a ventilator tube down our throat.  The other side is so full of spite that they'd be happier if we all died choking on our own vomit than to take a L.

So one side of the house likes the other side of the house a bit less; the point remains: the center cannot hold when there is no tentpole anymore.

And like Brisket is fond to say when rationalizing-but-not-quite-justfying riots and looting-- human beings are going to respond and react like human beings-- and when you coop up roommates who hate each other under one roof for long enough, behaviors escalate and things fester and pop. I don't see this ending well.

Now that we've completely digressed from Joe Rogan and his Vax hesitancy stance; did I tell y'all I watched a Fear Factor from the late 90's on Hulu? That was an interesting watch-- he's really young, head of hair, 90's fashion was on full display...

[atomheartbevo 89362]

36 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Again, we are a country full of people who don’t like each other, at the base level, and that is a new phenomenon in American history. No longer does sharing a passport mean we share a bond; the internet has changed this. 

We are a country of people who got along pretty damn well, and would even come together in times of crisis (9/11, etc.), but we are driven apart because one group has decided to go all in on trying to drive us apart, up to and including the use of things like Fox News.  

They may have had a different letter next to their name, but they have done this before (opposition to the Civil Rights movement being one of the more recent examples), but they didn't have 24/7 platforms to drive it into the heads of their followers and whip them up at all hours of the day, whether it's Tucker in the evening on the TV, or twitter or Facebook on their phone while they are taking a shit.

 

[956 Worldwide 34313]

I’d actually like to get back to Rogan. Take a loop back to the halcyon days of 2009 when Obama was president, most people on Facebook remembered the password to their .edu account. And you could read this interview and smirk and think Rogan is basically harmless.

But he’s not harmless, and staring through the smoky rubble in 2021 it is apparent that someone who unites and validates the extreme idiocy of potheads and meatheads is dangerous, because those potheads and meatheads will make terrifying and harmful decisions and feel validated that they did.  It turns out that maybe we do need taboo words, because even in the US of A in 2017 actual got damn no shit Nazis will rally and kill people. And it turns out that validating conspiracy theories will lead to a resurgence of childhood diseases we thought we killed and will actually threaten our ability to open our country and live like people. It turns out that taking drugs and being open to bullshit doesn’t make you smart, it makes you the worst kind of stupid. It makes you stupid and self satisfied and unable to reject bullshit which is far more important in the real world than “asking” stupid questions that have long since been answered by people who know more than you. 
 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2009/06/joe-rogan-is-batshit-crazy-but-in-a-good-way

 

TL; DR Joe Rogan can suck it. 

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

FFS, if you find yourself even slightly inclined to defend a roided up, pothead comedian and fighting commentator in his jihad against the combined medical advice of the CDC, FDA, and every other civilized public health and disease control entity— would it kill you to just sit this one out.  You’re obviously on the wrong side. Just let the “Libs” have this one. Cause I’ll tell you a secret— they aren’t Libs, they’re doctors and all they fucking want is for you not to die or kill anyone else and for all of us to go to a fucking ball game one day.  This is not ideological no matter how bad you want it to be, just like weight limit warnings on bridges aren’t restricting your freedom or controlling your movement.
 

I am actually desperate for a constructive conservative debate on lots of things but it’s hard to take complaints about cancel culture seriously when without fail, you want to renew the stupidest gotdamn assholes for another season. 

I gotta disagree with you here.  After over a year of dealing with these fucking idiots, I say, let em die and/or kill each other.  Once everyone has been given a chance to get vaccinated stop trying to convince these dipshits - odds are very high 96-99%+ of those dying will be the unvaccinated...let them eat cake...or shit, whatever. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

18 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We are a country of people who got along pretty damn well, and would even come together in times of crisis (9/11, etc.), but we are driven apart because one group has decided to go all in on trying to drive us apart, up to and including the use of things like Fox News.  

They may have had a different letter next to their name, but they have done this before (opposition to the Civil Rights movement being one of the more recent examples), but they didn't have 24/7 platforms to drive it into the heads of their followers and whip them up at all hours of the day, whether it's Tucker in the evening on the TV, or twitter or Facebook on their phone while they are taking a shit.

 

If I may humbly add, just to ask you to consider, that when you say "we are driven apart because one group" that we honestly reflect and see if there isn't culpability and blame and responsibility to share among both parties. If you still, after an unbiased and honest assessment, feel like it's only one party then we get to the root of another epistemological problem that I'll just call "a difference of opinion and let's part ways as friends and agree to disagree".

The easiest answer, Occam's razor, to my way of thinking, makes it obvious that the lightning fast speed of technology and the sharing of ideas at a moment's notice, has destroyed us ever being a like-minded nation state again. I'll go further and say, the only reason we ever were a nation state of "shared interest" was exactly because we didn't have the means and ability to actually articulate and share what our individual interests were. The top 20% collated, curated and evangelized what the shared, national interest and idealism was and unsurprisingly it served the most connected, visible top 20%. Those walls have been tore down which is why you've seen so push back on what has historically been the power of America's institutionalism (White, Christian, Men).

And to bring tie the points together here; Joe Rogan has an outsized platform and voice for a man of his stature, ability and accomplishments. But there is undeniably a product/market fit in what he says and how he thinks and the internet/technology has created a medium for this connection. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[DonkeyCigars 144]

18 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’d actually like to get back to Rogan. Take a loop back to the halcyon days of 2009 when Obama was president, most people on Facebook remembered the password to their .edu account. And you could read this interview and smirk and think Rogan is basically harmless.

But he’s not harmless, and staring through the smoky rubble in 2021 it is apparent that someone who unites and validates the extreme idiocy of potheads and meatheads is dangerous, because those potheads and meatheads will make terrifying and harmful decisions and feel validated that they did.  It turns out that maybe we do need taboo words, because even in the US of A in 2017 actual got damn no shit Nazis will rally and kill people. And it turns out that validating conspiracy theories will lead to a resurgence of childhood diseases we thought we killed and will actually threaten our ability to open our country and live like people. It turns out that taking drugs and being open to bullshit doesn’t make you smart, it makes you the worst kind of stupid. It makes you stupid and self satisfied and unable to reject bullshit which is far more important in the real world than “asking” stupid questions that have long since been answered by people who know more than you. 
 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2009/06/joe-rogan-is-batshit-crazy-but-in-a-good-way

 

TL; DR Joe Rogan can suck it. 

I know it wouldn't seem like it, but I'm a bit of a learned, well-read man myself. You'll just have to trust me on that one.

There is a fantastic-- maybe the best of our generation-- short story writer who, despite deserving a household name, most people have never heard of; George Saunders. He wrote, nearly 20 years ago, about the advent of a problem in a famous essay called "The Brain-dead Megaphone" where he essentially outlines the problem with people who have an outsized voice and the way it changes the way people think. The foundation of what he's talking about-- infotainment news like Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddows of the world-- has been multipled by many order of magnitudes.

This is because now the brain dead megaphone has been democratized and the reason is because technology.

It's federated to anyone and everyone, and now the identity begins with 1) everyone is an individual with self-interests first and 2) they are part of a team next and 3) maybe part of a community, if lucky, and 4) part of a country rarely.

Maybe some of you very smart and succesful posters, the 1% of our society, can operate on a higher plane-- but in reality it might make this whole descent more painful, like having to be aware and awake during surgery instead of blissfully ignorant and asleep.

Here is the story, it's really good and worth the read: https://as1020.pbworks.com/f/saunders-braindead.pdf

Edited April 28, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Brisketexan 104462]

8 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

If I may humbly add, just to ask you to consider, that when you say "we are driven apart because one group" that we honestly reflect and see if there isn't culpability and blame and responsibility to share among both parties. If you still, after an unbiased and honest assessment, feel like it's only one party then we get to the root of another epistemological problem that I'll just call "a difference of opinion and let's part ways as friends and agree to disagree".

Is it zero sum?  Of course not.  Of course there is culpability on "both sides."  Just like, objectively, part of the reason the rape happened was that she dressed and flirted like a slut and had too much to drink.  Take any of those away, and maybe the rape doesn't happen.  But we don't "both sides" that shit.  The rapist is the problem.

Only one group has actively waged war against any objective truth or reality, as an overall and comprehensive strategy.  Only one party LITERALLY enacted a national platform of "whatever that pathological liar gameshow host says, that's what we stand for."  Come on.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Is it zero sum?  Of course not.  Of course there is culpability on "both sides."  Just like, objectively, part of the reason the rape happened was that she dressed and flirted like a slut and had too much to drink.  Take any of those away, and maybe the rape doesn't happen.  But we don't "both sides" that shit.  The rapist is the problem.

Only one group has actively waged war against any objective truth or reality, as an overall and comprehensive strategy.  Only one party LITERALLY enacted a national platform of "whatever that pathological liar gameshow host says, that's what we stand for."  Come on.

I'm not trying to say this as a dig here, but every time I feel like we are *this close* to communicating and hearing each other, you say something like this that makes me think you still aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. And honestly it's probably my fault.

I don't believe that one group of people or party is akin to a rapist. I guess I believe that you do think that. And I think there is a wide enough gulf between those two statements that makes it fruitless to endeavor on; but I think it's a shame. It's a microcosm of why hearts and minds don't change. We aren't singing off the same sheet of music.

[heso 2748]

I wonder how much Rogan’s shift towards Trumpiness is intentional and recognizing what the bulk of his fan base wants to hear and how much of it is just Rogan being a dumbass. 

It’s really easy to get a moron to make several leaps of logic when you start with a generally agreeable position. Freedom is good. Stalinist communism was bad. Stoicism and self reliance are strong ideas to incorporate into one’s character. The masculine side of humanity has positive aspects and is not something to be rejected outright. A lot of the right wing media guys seem to start from these positions and then distort them into anti-left, anti-intellectual, dangerous radicalism.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by heso

[Paul Wesley 3277]

7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The argument against mRNA vaccines seems to be some variation of time. mRNA tech has been around for 20-30 years but yes these were the first vaccines approved for widespread use. There have been tests for mRNA vaccines for other diseases but they never progressed past testing. I’m fairly certain a Zika mRNA vaccine was tested on humans. Vaccine scientists know that mRNA does not turn you into a zombie.

All true, but the yokels talking about tyranny and freedom and control and "I woke up in a free country..." --- fucking zero of them could explain on the very simplest level how *any* vaccine works, much less how cellular biology and messenger RNA works.

[Fletch 5798]

41 minutes ago, heso said:

I wonder how much Rogan’s shift towards Trumpiness is intentional and recognizing what the bulk of his fan base wants to hear and how much of it is just Rogan being a dumbass. 

It’s really easy to get a moron to make several leaps of logic when you start with a generally agreeable position. Freedom is good. Stalinist communism was bad. Stoicism and self reliance are strong ideas to incorporate into one’s character. The masculine side of humanity has positive aspects and is not something to be rejected outright. A lot of the right wing media guys seem to start from these positions and then distort them into anti-left, anti-intellectual, dangerous radicalism.

 

I don’t think it’s intentional. He gets wrapped up in conspiracy theories, which is fine if you’re like joking about it (which he has done multiple times with the crazier conspiracies) but he legit thinks the Clintons kill people and shit. He actually thinks antifa is as dangerous or maybe even more so than dickheads like the proud boys. Like I’ve said, I still watch certain clips of his cause he does have some insanely good guests on that discuss all sorts of interesting shit. Like astronomers, historians, war journalist, survivalists and of course hilarious dudes like Burr. That’s his bread and butter right there. Can’t stand it when he brings up covid or his thoughts on anything political. Shut the fuck up and do what you do best. Deep conversations with truly interesting people. Not fucking Crenshaw or Ted Nugent 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

4 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

2 hours ago, hookemATL said:

one roommate is trying to chill out, eat chicken wings, smoke weed and listen to Dark Side of the Moon.

the other is microwaving fish, sticking his dick in the peanut butter, and crying about how fat girls wont touch his micropeen.

This is exactly like a roommate I had in college.  I was the Pink Floyd roommate.  No, really, I was.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

1 hour ago, Lagunamadre said:

 

I'm going to assume that's the actual former Mariners reliever because that makes it so much better.

[Chuckie Finster 22583]

Statistically, we will reach a point (if we haven’t already) where a staggeringly disproportionate amount of COVID deaths will be unvaccinated Republicans.

Quite literally, the best way possible for them to own the libs is to get the shot.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33824]

20 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Statistically, we will reach a point (if we haven’t already) where a staggeringly disproportionate amount of COVID deaths will be unvaccinated Republicans.

Quite literally, the best way possible for them to own the libs is to get the shot.

[Brisketexan 104462]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not trying to say this as a dig here, but every time I feel like we are *this close* to communicating and hearing each other, you say something like this that makes me think you still aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. And honestly it's probably my fault.

I don't believe that one group of people or party is akin to a rapist. I guess I believe that you do think that. And I think there is a wide enough gulf between those two statements that makes it fruitless to endeavor on; but I think it's a shame. It's a microcosm of why hearts and minds don't change. We aren't singing off the same sheet of music.

No, I get what you are trying to say.  The problem with your flavor of "both sides-ism" is that it has a huge, fatal flaw: DEGREE.

Donald Trump and brisketexan are both liars (both sides!).  That is an absolutely true statement.  I have told lies in my life.  I'm married, after all.  So, when it comes to the issue of honesty/dishonesty, Donald Trump and I are equals....according to your view.

In reality, Trump's lies, in terms of DEGREE (including the concepts of sheer numerical volume and importance) fucking DWARF mine.  I mean, the comparison is like Drew Brees's quarterback performance and mine (after all, we've both thrown a football to other people, therefore, we're the same!).  No.  Drew Brees is a fucking hall-of-fame record-setting QB with a Super Bowl ring.  I'm a chump who's lucky to hit my target at 30 yards in a pickup game.  Fucking degree MATTERS.

And when it comes to trafficking in flat-out lies, falsehoods, disparagement of fact-based reality, SURE, there are liars on the left.  Always have been.  Always will be.  And their conduct is wrong, and pisses me off.  But it's fucking QB brisketexan compared to Drew Brees level shit when we're talking about the right-wing Q-anon Fox News OAN Newsmax Facebook-algorithm bullshit.  For fuck's sake, the dominant right wing conversation and approaches to elections is to restrict voting, to claim that any election the lost was due to --and I quote the LEADER OF THE MOVEMENT -- "the most massive election fraud the world has ever seen."  It fucking STARTED with the lie of birtherism, and blew up from there.  It is a movement completely divorced from truth and reality, covered in a layer of "the best ideas are those that inflict pain on other people" icing.

So, no, I do not concede your "both sides are responsible for this" bullshit, because you fail to acknowledge the importance of DEGREE of culpability.  I have watched one of our two main political parties descend into LITERAL madness.  A political party based on nihilistic madness is a bomb that can only blow up a civilized society.  If they hadn't gone off the deep end, the deep division you point to would not be an existential threat.

[Ted Lange 15991]

Remember when the Trump loving dolts were all for HERD IMMUNITY.   We could be there in a month if those stupid motherfuckers would just take the shot.  But nope, they were lying, as always.

Wish we had a way to infect these rubes with Coivd.   Give them the choice, shot of covid or covid vax.   If covid is no big deal, prove it, pussies.

[Brisketexan 104462]

5 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Remember when the Trump loving dolts were all for HERD IMMUNITY.   We could be there in a month if those stupid motherfuckers would just take the shot.  But nope, they were lying, as always.

Wish we had a way to infect these rubes with Coivd.   Give them the choice, shot of covid or covid vax.   If covid is no big deal, prove it, pussies.

I fucking like this.  Pick your risk -- infection or vaccine.  They want to up the ante, up the fucking ante.

[hpslugga 4039]

13 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Remember when the Trump loving dolts were all for HERD IMMUNITY.   We could be there in a month if those stupid motherfuckers would just take the shot.  But nope, they were lying, as always.

Wish we had a way to infect these rubes with Coivd.   Give them the choice, shot of covid or covid vax.   If covid is no big deal, prove it, pussies.

They were lying in that they were pretending to know what herd immunity actually is, yes.

I live in a wealthy area of Dallas, TX so I've heard this shit. When they said "herd immunity," and I asked them to explain, the overwhelming comparison was pox parties. Two words that Chris Rock would use to describe that: Ig Nant

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

They were lying in that they were pretending to know what herd immunity actually is, yes.

I live in a wealthy area of Dallas, TX so I've heard this shit. When they said "herd immunity," and I asked them to explain, the overwhelming comparison was pox parties. Two words that Chris Rock would use to describe that: Ig Nant

hell, just head over to the daily texan threads and take a look at those attitudes. it's really discouraging.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33824]

29 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Remember when the Trump loving dolts were all for HERD IMMUNITY.   We could be there in a month if those stupid motherfuckers would just take the shot.  But nope, they were lying, as always.

Wish we had a way to infect these rubes with Coivd.   Give them the choice, shot of covid or covid vax.   If covid is no big deal, prove it, pussies.

no, I don't, because this thing was a hoax the whole time and it was "just gonna go away."

[DonkeyCigars 144]

53 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, I get what you are trying to say.  The problem with your flavor of "both sides-ism" is that it has a huge, fatal flaw: DEGREE.

Donald Trump and brisketexan are both liars (both sides!).  That is an absolutely true statement.  I have told lies in my life.  I'm married, after all.  So, when it comes to the issue of honesty/dishonesty, Donald Trump and I are equals....according to your view.

In reality, Trump's lies, in terms of DEGREE (including the concepts of sheer numerical volume and importance) fucking DWARF mine.  I mean, the comparison is like Drew Brees's quarterback performance and mine (after all, we've both thrown a football to other people, therefore, we're the same!).  No.  Drew Brees is a fucking hall-of-fame record-setting QB with a Super Bowl ring.  I'm a chump who's lucky to hit my target at 30 yards in a pickup game.  Fucking degree MATTERS.

And when it comes to trafficking in flat-out lies, falsehoods, disparagement of fact-based reality, SURE, there are liars on the left.  Always have been.  Always will be.  And their conduct is wrong, and pisses me off.  But it's fucking QB brisketexan compared to Drew Brees level shit when we're talking about the right-wing Q-anon Fox News OAN Newsmax Facebook-algorithm bullshit.  For fuck's sake, the dominant right wing conversation and approaches to elections is to restrict voting, to claim that any election the lost was due to --and I quote the LEADER OF THE MOVEMENT -- "the most massive election fraud the world has ever seen."  It fucking STARTED with the lie of birtherism, and blew up from there.  It is a movement completely divorced from truth and reality, covered in a layer of "the best ideas are those that inflict pain on other people" icing.

So, no, I do not concede your "both sides are responsible for this" bullshit, because you fail to acknowledge the importance of DEGREE of culpability.  I have watched one of our two main political parties descend into LITERAL madness.  A political party based on nihilistic madness is a bomb that can only blow up a civilized society.  If they hadn't gone off the deep end, the deep division you point to would not be an existential threat.

Thanks for the reply. Again, without wanting to waste too much of you or anyone else's time any further, think we aren't on the same page. I agree with you about the matter of degrees and differing levels of severity on a sliding scale, but when you talk about the fracturing and brokenness of the nation and claim one side's severity and degrees is that of a rapist while the others is dressing up cute and being irresistible, it's clear we aren't starting from the same basis point.

Republicans/GOP/GQP/Qanon have devolved into this gross, haphazard thing that if written about in a SciFi novel 10 years ago, I would have said this fan fiction garbage is way too absurd and unbelievable. I think that we can agree on. The root cause for why this misshaped fungus has grown the way it has, there are some reasonable and debatable points of discussion and they all boil down to a difference in worldview and beliefs/values and ideal culture. These are deeply rooted identities and aspirations/ideals, they split into very large factions which are mostly in opposition towards each other in a direct conflict, and they aren't things that can be empirically proven as right or good or wrong or bad which means there is a vicious cycle.

And look, I'm not a choir boy, but like Jules said, I'm trying. But what I've come to believe is this country was founded and built around the powers that be with a lip-service to democracy by and for the people, whose facade has been both good (as facades are want to do-- be good until the illusion breaks down a la the "middle class" as an artificial construct of post WWII, which we've discussed) and bad. Bad because it's dishonest. The cruel joke is there never really was a shared American fabric (ask literally everyone but the white men for most of American history well into the 1990's) and with the advent of technology and connections (again, well into the 1990's) and ironically a true sense of democratization of ideas, there could never even have been a shared American fabric. 

[Ted Lange 15991]

37 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no, I don't, because this thing was a hoax the whole time and it was "just gonna go away."

 

Our lesbian PE coach Lt Gov was promoting OPEN everything up, because the risk of covid wasnt worth tanking the economy.   But now the potential risks of the vax aren't worth "saving the economy?"   These people are all frauds.

[Brisketexan 104462]

13 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

Our lesbian PE coach Lt Gov was promoting OPEN everything up, because the risk of covid wasnt worth tanking the economy.   But now the potential risks of the vax aren't worth "saving the economy?"   These people are all frauds.

QFFT.

The entire movement is built on a foundation of lies, the only recognized currency is lies, and whatever they do is topped with a huge lie.  It's lies, all the way down.

It's a fucking pyschopathic movement, and it's captivated 40% of the country.

[Gil Bang 25865]

3 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I know it wouldn't seem like it, but I'm a bit of a learned, well-read man myself. You'll just have to trust me on that one.

There is a fantastic-- maybe the best of our generation-- short story writer who, despite deserving a household name, most people have never heard of; George Saunders. He wrote, nearly 20 years ago, about the advent of a problem in a famous essay called "The Brain-dead Megaphone" where he essentially outlines the problem with people who have an outsized voice and the way it changes the way people think. The foundation of what he's talking about-- infotainment news like Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddows of the world-- has been multipled by many order of magnitudes.

This is because now the brain dead megaphone has been democratized and the reason is because technology.

It's federated to anyone and everyone, and now the identity begins with 1) everyone is an individual with self-interests first and 2) they are part of a team next and 3) maybe part of a community, if lucky, and 4) part of a country rarely.

Maybe some of you very smart and succesful posters, the 1% of our society, can operate on a higher plane-- but in reality it might make this whole descent more painful, like having to be aware and awake during surgery instead of blissfully ignorant and asleep.

Here is the story, it's really good and worth the read: https://as1020.pbworks.com/f/saunders-braindead.pdf

It takes a special kind of dumbshit to put Maddow and Carlson in the same bucket, unless that bucket is "people on TV"

[Sbbruin 21697]

On 4/27/2021 at 3:01 PM, Neonmoon said:

Rogan, like all “just asking questions” idiots

The Tucker Carlson approach.  But by that time, it's out there and regurgitated by the regards over and over.

[Sbbruin 21697]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

Remember when the Trump loving dolts were all for HERD IMMUNITY.   We could be there in a month if those stupid motherfuckers would just take the shot.  But nope, they were lying, as always.

Wish we had a way to infect these rubes with Coivd.   Give them the choice, shot of covid or covid vax.   If covid is no big deal, prove it, pussies.

If you went on Texags, I promise you at least half, probably more, would take covid.  It is amazing to read that shit.

[cactusflinthead 27593]

4 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not trying to say this as a dig here, but every time I feel like we are *this close* to communicating and hearing each other, you say something like this that makes me think you still aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. And honestly it's probably my fault.

I don't believe that one group of people or party is akin to a rapist. I guess I believe that you do think that. And I think there is a wide enough gulf between those two statements that makes it fruitless to endeavor on; but I think it's a shame. It's a microcosm of why hearts and minds don't change. We aren't singing off the same sheet of music.

There's your problem.

Equating Maddow and Carlson is emblematic of why you can't figger it out.

One side is fubar. The other side would rather they stopped lying.

Quit the both sides BS.

[StassneyHorn 6534]

31 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

It takes a special kind of dumbshit to put Maddow and Carlson in the same bucket, unless that bucket is "people on TV"

The hubris it takes to think a Rhodes Scholar wouldnt dog walk Carlson in any exchange is stunning. They aren’t equals. He’s a trust fund baby and she’s actually had to hit a triple to make it to third base unlike him.

Crazy to think Scott Brown fundraised off Rachel Maddow being a possible opponent. Elizabeth Warren got the nod and Maddow never attempted to run but it’s crazy to think about a what if scenario where they switched places. Warren having a one hour show where she could talk to the camera would be enough for me to pay for cable.

Edited April 29, 2021 by StassneyHorn

[Anastasis 23375]

7 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I have this rube on ignore but I have to respond to the pure idiocy being espoused here. 

mRNA vaccine - 12 months of data 

COVID-19 - 18 months of data 

long term effects - BOTH UNKNOWN 

How the fuck can you say with a straight face there more unknown effects with the vaccine and not the virus?

benefits of vaccine? Protecting yourself AND THE COMMUNITY 

benefits of virus? Kills old and weak

 

We're starting to see some data emerging on post-acute sequelae of C19 and it doesn't look good.  At least the shit that I am looking at. Focus on senior population, which is of course substantially different than the younger folks.  But significant post-acute complication burden, which is associated with substantial mortality, even after controlling for potential confounders like acute hospitalization and baseline comorbidities. 

Old people, get your fucking shots. 

Young people, if you want to fuck around find out individually, I get it, but the risk benefit analysis vs vaccinations is pretty compelling imo. Don't come fucking crying later about your health care bills when you made the decision to skip the off ramp on this shit. 

[hpslugga 4039]

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

hell, just head over to the daily texan threads and take a look at those attitudes. it's really discouraging.

You’ve known me long enough to know I’ve an allergy to bullshit. If I read that drivel, here’s what happens: