Thing$ $till not going well for Joe Rogan, I $ee.

[Ted Lange 16413]

19 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

the risk benefit analysis vs vaccinations is pretty compelling imo. Don't come fucking crying later about your health care bills when you made the decision to skip the off ramp on this shit. 

 

 

These anti-science bullshit eating rubes will 100% coming crying when their bill comes due.

[Anastasis 23720]

8 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

 

These anti-science bullshit eating rubes will 100% coming crying when their bill comes due.

Maybe consider exempting all COVID-19 related healthcare from coverage after some set date in fall for vax eligible individuals that decided to pass. 

You want to fuck around and find out and bankrupt yourself, go for it if you want to take the risk, but don't put the rest of us on the hook for the bill. 

The pocket book is the most effective method of behavior modification. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Anastasis

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Okay sorry for the misfire in the analogy (I don’t watch either); replace tucker with whomever it makes more sense and is the flip side of the Maddow coin, but let’s not let a bad analogy from a guy who doesn’t watch cable news deflect from the overarching point being made because it’s easy and relieving. Replace that idiot with whomever on the right is a biased and agenda driven entertainment news host who has earnest beliefs and opinions.

[Ted Lange 16413]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe consider exempting all COVID-19 related healthcare from coverage after some set date in fall for vax eligible individuals that decided to pass. 

You want to fuck around and find out and bankrupt yourself, go for it if you want to take the risk, but don't put the rest of us on the hook for the bill. 

The pocket book is the most effective method of behavior modification. 

That would be awesome.  Is something like this feasible?  

[Ted Lange 16413]

9 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

whomever on the right is a biased and agenda driven entertainment news host who has earnest beliefs and opinions.

[Captainant 28539]

25 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Okay sorry for the misfire in the analogy (I don’t watch either); replace tucker with whomever it makes more sense and is the flip side of the Maddow coin, but let’s not let a bad analogy from a guy who doesn’t watch cable news deflect from the overarching point being made because it’s easy and relieving. Replace that idiot with whomever on the right is a biased and agenda driven entertainment news host who has earnest beliefs and opinions.

Your issue is that there is not anyone on the right-media that has earnest beliefs and opinions. Carlson and fox is as good as it gets. Which is pretty fucking bad for the point your failing to make.

Maddow (since she's already in the convo) is an actual barred attorney that uses facts and documentary evidence to back her arguments and reporting. Carlson (and the right media writ large) use propoganda and culture war talking points like "BIDEN IS CANCELLING RED MEAT!" and "THE LEFT IS CANCELLING DR SEUSS!" and so on. It is not remotely the same in demeanor or degree. 

[UncleSonny 6798]

25 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Okay sorry for the misfire in the analogy (I don’t watch either); replace tucker with whomever it makes more sense and is the flip side of the Maddow coin, but let’s not let a bad analogy from a guy who doesn’t watch cable news deflect from the overarching point being made because it’s easy and relieving. Replace that idiot with whomever on the right is a biased and agenda driven entertainment news host who has earnest beliefs and opinions.

Yeah, your analogy isn’t bad really it just pretty clearly illustrates the point you are trying to argue against. There is no good analogs between the big names in media on the left and the right. 

You can’t come up with a public figure on the left with the reach of Tucker who traffics exclusively in bad faith arguments and lies. You also can’t come up with right leaning journalist who approaches their job with the intellectual and journalistic integrity that Maddow does that has any significant audience or influence.

[atomheartbevo 90650]

5 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

If I may humbly add, just to ask you to consider, that when you say "we are driven apart because one group" that we honestly reflect and see if there isn't culpability and blame and responsibility to share among both parties. If you still, after an unbiased and honest assessment, feel like it's only one party then we get to the root of another epistemological problem that I'll just call "a difference of opinion and let's part ways as friends and agree to disagree".

5 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not trying to say this as a dig here, but every time I feel like we are *this close* to communicating and hearing each other, you say something like this that makes me think you still aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. And honestly it's probably my fault.

I want to say this up front and get it out of the way:  I went to HS in the Sugar Land area, and at the time it was hardcore Republican (our Representative was Tom DeLay).  Parents were Republicans, I was a Republican all through the 90s (George H. W. was my first Presidential vote), but not hardcore - I didn't care what Clinton did, other than if it required me to be deployed overseas.  Surrounded by Republicans at various jobs, in the Army, and even in college (but did not go down the College Republican rabbit hole).  Heard way too many hours of Rush Limbaugh (but wasn't whipped up by him, more entertained than anything) When it was clear that George W. was running for the WH, I had friends convince me to join the campaign as a volunteer and then paid worker, with the view that I could use that to get a job outside of the tech industry (I ultimately bailed on that, as I found a tech job I was happy at and had gotten married).  I'm not going to rehash everything, but I bailed on Bush and the Republicans for the most part by the time 2004 rolled around. Iraq was a huge issue for me and one that I could not overcome. Palin as VP choice in 2008 was probably the last straw.

I had voted for the occasional Democrat for one reason or another, voted for plenty of Libertarians and Constitution Party types, but prior to 2016, really didn't vote for more than a handful of Democrats.  The result is that outside of a few relatives and (more and more) friends, and liberals here on Surly, I don't have a solid grasp on Democrats at large.

So no, I can't definitively talk about whether both groups engage in this behavior, as I have never actually been a part of a  full-blown liberal  group or immersed myself in such a campaign, or have spent years only voting for (D).

But in my time as a Republican for over a decade, and in my time working for W's campaign, I never saw the wide spread nastiness that I saw in 2016 through now.  I was aware of the rumors that Rove was trying to destroy McCain with the "McCain has a black baby" rumors, but I also knew about the rumors (and some of the truths) that other candidates were trying to bring W down with in the primaries. I'm now well aware of Newt's war against the Clintons, much more aware than I was then - I was more concerned with getting laid and getting paid than who Bill was banging or Hillary was executing, but in hindsight, that feels more like a vendetta against the Clintons than anything, and feels more "localized".

I do know that I didn't see George W spend his press conferences pushing personal vendettas against the Democrats and he wasn't going around to rallies getting people to chant "Lock him (Al Gore or Kerry or Bill) up!" and supporting groups that believed the liberals were literally demon-possessed.  For all of his faults, I didn't see George W embracing the batshittery coming out of the Alex Jones camp (and in fact Jones despised Bush). I didn't see Obama going around to rallies, to cheers of "Lock McCain up again!" or "Lock Mitt up!", and he didn't spend his time embracing batshit extremist movements that believed Republicans were cannibalistic humanoid underground pedophiles (CHAPs) that were living off of the blood of children.  

I didn't see Bush or Obama cheer on people at rallies who wanted their political opponents locked up (or worse), or talk about beating up liberals or conservatives in the crowd.

But over the last 4 years, I've watched Donald Trump constantly trash Democrats at press conferences, at rallies, on twitter.  I've seen him embrace groups that believe liberals are cannibalistic pedophiles, and that believe he is going to round up his enemies and execute them on the steps of the Capitol or wherever. I've seen him constantly cheer on people who want his political opponents locked up.  

I have seen Trump deliberately spread misinformation about things, simply because liberals embraced whatever it was, including misinformation about covid, that could harm or even killed his followers.

I have seen Trump encourage his followers to "liberate" states like Michigan, that had liberal leaders.

And prior to 2016, I saw Trump try and do everything possible to make his fans believe that Obama was not a legitimate President and American.

And it all culminated in January 6th.

George H. W., Bill Clinton, George W. and Obama never went so hard in the paint in trying to trash people with different ideologies.  Not even Newt at his worst in the 90s was trying to sow chaos on such a widespread level.

And the GOP as a whole is still refusing to disavow the worst of what Trump said and did.  And for all of their faults, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, etc. don't devote their entire evening blocks to just trashing the shit out of anybody who doesn't have a liberal viewpoint, unlike Fox News who has embraced and pushed the idea that liberals are literally destroying the country and won't be happy until the Russians or Chinese or whoever take over.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[We’reTexas 1477]

13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 I'm not going to rehash everything, but I bailed on Bush and the Republicans for the most part by the time 2004 rolled around. Iraq was a huge issue for me and one that I could not overcome.

 

This was a great post and all, but I just wanted to emphasize that W embraced a lie that led to thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead while dragging the country into the exact same mistake of the war he was too cowardly to fight in thirty years earlier and the only regret he has ever expressed was the audacity of Kanye West to call him a racist. Fuck him and his water colors. 
 

/rant, apologies for the interruption. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by We’reTexas

[atomheartbevo 90650]

4 hours ago, Fletch said:

I don’t think it’s intentional. He gets wrapped up in conspiracy theories, which is fine if you’re like joking about it (which he has done multiple times with the crazier conspiracies) but he legit thinks the Clintons kill people and shit. He actually thinks antifa is as dangerous or maybe even more so than dickheads like the proud boys. Like I’ve said, I still watch certain clips of his cause he does have some insanely good guests on that discuss all sorts of interesting shit. Like astronomers, historians, war journalist, survivalists and of course hilarious dudes like Burr. That’s his bread and butter right there. Can’t stand it when he brings up covid or his thoughts on anything political. Shut the fuck up and do what you do best. Deep conversations with truly interesting people. Not fucking Crenshaw or Ted Nugent 

Rogan keeps coming cross as somebody who wants to be all things to all people, and particularly to whoever is sitting across from him.

It's odd.  All of the great hosts, whether it be late-night types like Carson or Letterman, or Snyder or Larry King, all had their limits where they would push back against bullshit. Or they just wouldn't have those folks come on.

And Rogan has some amazing guests on, which makes his stance on vaccines even more of a dumbass thing to do - he could pick up the phone and have somebody on who could completely destroy his argument.  He has access to plenty of experts.

[atomheartbevo 90650]

12 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

This was a great post and all, but I just wanted to emphasize that W embraced a lie that led to thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead while dragging the country into the exact same mistake of the war he was too cowardly to fight in thirty years earlier and the only regret he has ever expressed was the audacity of Kanye West to call him a racist. Fuck him and his water colors. 

/rant, apologies for the interruption. 

Absolutely in agreement.  I don't like that some are willing to forgive that - I had friends who died in Iraq, and I believe we really dropped the ball in Afghanistan with the diversion of resources to Iraq.

I don't even care that Bush is doing his painting stuff for vets.  People have tried to tell me "oh, it was actually Rummey and Cheney and the others", but Bush was the final authority.  They wanted to do something with Iraq, and that was clear even before he entered the White House.

[cactusflinthead 27627]

10 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Okay sorry for the misfire in the analogy (I don’t watch either); replace tucker with whomever it makes more sense and is the flip side of the Maddow coin, but let’s not let a bad analogy from a guy who doesn’t watch cable news deflect from the overarching point being made because it’s easy and relieving. Replace that idiot with whomever on the right is a biased and agenda driven entertainment news host who has earnest beliefs and opinions.

In this scenario you're Abe. Go find me ten people in the R party that have voices with reach that aren't saying stuff like this.

Good luck. 

The ones I know that have spoken up against the constant lies are being censured, primaried, and/or vilified by their own party.

See John McCain. They are still spitting on his grave.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

 

 

[hookemATL 12283]

21 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

 

You motherfucker. This is now stuck in my head for the rest of the day. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

11 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

Yeah, your analogy isn’t bad really it just pretty clearly illustrates the point you are trying to argue against. There is no good analogs between the big names in media on the left and the right. 

You can’t come up with a public figure on the left with the reach of Tucker who traffics exclusively in bad faith arguments and lies. You also can’t come up with right leaning journalist who approaches their job with the intellectual and journalistic integrity that Maddow does that has any significant audience or influence.

 

11 hours ago, Captainant said:

Your issue is that there is not anyone on the right-media that has earnest beliefs and opinions. Carlson and fox is as good as it gets. Which is pretty fucking bad for the point your failing to make.

Maddow (since she's already in the convo) is an actual barred attorney that uses facts and documentary evidence to back her arguments and reporting. Carlson (and the right media writ large) use propoganda and culture war talking points like "BIDEN IS CANCELLING RED MEAT!" and "THE LEFT IS CANCELLING DR SEUSS!" and so on. It is not remotely the same in demeanor or degree. 

Fair enough; I have no argument nor do I want to have an argument against this. I limit my cable news infotainment to Jim Cramer and Squakbox type news. At the end of the day I'm not an anti-intellectual and I take no pleasure in lowest common denominators and I respect and understand the negative views of Joe Rogan on here a little better now so thanks for the discussion and conversation.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

32 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

You motherfucker. This is now stuck in my head for the rest of the day. 

My work is done here.

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

Also, I wonder if Rogan is part of this Lake Austin group that want to re-exempt themselves from city taxes. 

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2021-04-09/westside-residents-turn-to-lege-to-escape-from-austin/

[Gourmand 7778]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Also, I wonder if Rogan is part of this Lake Austin group that want to re-exempt themselves from city taxes. 

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2021-04-09/westside-residents-turn-to-lege-to-escape-from-austin/

I think that story is older than his Austin residency status. He probably doesn't know jack shit about it. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Gourmand

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

1 hour ago, Gourmand said:

I think that story is older than his Austin residency status. He probably doesn't know jack shit about it. 

My limited understanding of it is that there was a swath of homes on Lake Austin that for years was exempt from city taxes until the Statesman brought attention to it and currently they're trying to regain their tax-exempt status via the state Legislature. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Most accurate thing that meatsack of steroids, Red Bull, and Axe body spray has ever said

[Sawbonz 28223]

21 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe consider exempting all COVID-19 related healthcare from coverage after some set date in fall for vax eligible individuals that decided to pass. 

You want to fuck around and find out and bankrupt yourself, go for it if you want to take the risk, but don't put the rest of us on the hook for the bill. 

The pocket book is the most effective method of behavior modification. 

Add obesity tobacco alcohol and drug related health conditions and you just solved the healthcare crisis

[Anastasis 23720]

19 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Add obesity tobacco alcohol and drug related health conditions and you just solved the healthcare crisis

If we could develop a two dose vaccine against any of them, we might have a fighting chance. 

[Sawbonz 28223]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If we could develop a two dose vaccine against any of them, we might have a fighting chance. 

You can’t pick and choose the lifestyle choices you cover

[Anastasis 23720]

34 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You can’t pick and choose the lifestyle choices you cover

I see the point, but I am not sure we should be framing anti-vax posture as a lifestyle choice. 

Incentives can have a strong impact on health behaviors.  I am sure that you have spent countless hours of your professional life trying to influence your patients wrt lifestyle modification.  How successful has that been, generally?

Financial incentives can be fairly productive and provide additional push to what sharing evidence and data does.  I generally prefer the carrot over the stick, but there comes a point where you go to the whip in the race.  We're making the final turn with vaccination; maybe time to go to the whip. The comment about pulling coverage for people that pass on vaccination was mostly tongue in cheek.  Mostly. I'd prefer positive incentives. 

Totally tangential, but interesting angle beyond the financial is the social media-like gamification and psychological manipulation being used to effect lifestyle modification. Lot's of folks working on apps and networks to manipulate people's health-related beliefs and behaviors. It's amazing what happens when you put a bright screen with dopamine-inducing buttons to press and engage the feedback loops. Many different ways to incentivize behaviors. I mean, what could possible go wrong.      

[Sawbonz 28223]

Just now, Anastasis said:

I see the point, but I am not sure we should be framing anti-vax posture as a lifestyle choice.

But it is though

[Anastasis 23720]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

But it is though

I suppose that dumb fuckery and conspiracy addled brain worms can be considered a lifestyle choice in this age.

 

ETA: I think of vax hesitancy as more similar to something like medication non-adherence, than I do something like obesity or smoking. I would not consider med non-adherence a lifestyle choice like the other examples.  

Edited April 30, 2021 by Anastasis

[Sawbonz 28223]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I would not consider med non-adherence a lifestyle choice

But it is though

[Anastasis 23720]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

But it is though

Again, I understand your point, but this is not the typical frame of thinking around lifestyle modification vs. medication taking behaviors.

If you want to talk about carrot and stick wrt medication taking behaviors, all on board.  Diabetic?  Don't take your medications and work to control your A1C? FAFO about those inpatient admission costs when you have that AMI. I'd rather get in front of in and incentive behaviors that avoid the negative outcomes, but whatever it takes. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Anastasis

[Chooky 13340]

You two handjobs.

[Chooky 13340]

High tech, Roganeered products.  It's Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop for bros.  Gwyneth Palbro.

Spoiler

 

 

[SizzleChest 8314]

25 minutes ago, Chooky said:

High tech, Roganeered products.  It's Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop for bros.  Gwyneth Palbro.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Pass.  I need my Vitamin R and Alex is the only guy that sells it.

[Bama Chick 28596]

“Gwyneth Paltrow for bros” is the best descriptor for Rohan ever lol.

[Buzzrock 15136]

Most accurate thing that meatsack of steroids, Red Bull, and Axe body spray has ever said

This has consistently been his position.

[Chooky 13340]

57 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Pass.  I need my Vitamin R and Alex is the only guy that sells it.

 

And seriously.  What the fuck is going on with this picture?  I stood next to Alex Jones once and he's 5'11 tops.  Maybe.  

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

15 minutes ago, Chooky said:

 

And seriously.  What the fuck is going on with this picture?  I stood next to Alex Jones once and he's 5'11 tops.  Maybe.  

They should dress up as santa and an elf for Christmas this year

[Bama Chick 28596]

This has consistently been his position.

Then he should shut the fuck up.

[Wanker Bob 379]

3 hours ago, Chooky said:

 

And seriously.  What the fuck is going on with this picture?  I stood next to Alex Jones once and he's 5'11 tops.  Maybe.  

Photoshop. A really funny one

Edited April 30, 2021 by Wanker Bob

[Wanker Bob 379]

That HGH or whatever he's been taking really changed his head shape. He used to be slim and had a normal narrow face and now it's a complete Charlie Brown level of round head. 

[Ted Lange 16413]

Joe Rogan is the single best argument for not legalizing weed.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ted Lange
oops

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Then he should shut the fuck up.

He kind of got paid a ton of money not to though. 

I don't agree with a lot of his opinions but he's nowhere near as dangerous as the right wing propaganda that's legally allowed to masquerade as news and be on television. 

[Chooky 13340]

[RomaVicta 30593]

On 4/28/2021 at 7:54 PM, Ted Lange said:

 

 

These anti-science bullshit eating rubes will 100% coming crying when their bill comes due.

I'd think you'd have to absolutely not believe in Divine Judgment to be this guy. 

Elmer Gantry (still a great book) at least believed it when he was preaching. He embodied the American ease of sincer hypocrisy. A piece of shit like Parson Ha-Ha must know his every move is false.

I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell.

[Underdog 29191]

On 4/29/2021 at 11:27 PM, Chooky said:

 

And seriously.  What the fuck is going on with this picture?  I stood next to Alex Jones once and he's 5'11 tops.  Maybe.  

Big Enos, Little Enos. 

[lmao 178]

On 4/28/2021 at 6:02 PM, Anastasis said:

Maybe consider exempting all COVID-19 related healthcare from coverage after some set date in fall for vax eligible individuals that decided to pass. 

You want to fuck around and find out and bankrupt yourself, go for it if you want to take the risk, but don't put the rest of us on the hook for the bill. 

The pocket book is the most effective method of behavior modification. 

Was Covid-19 care covered for the uninsured? 

[HenryJames 67369]

27 minutes ago, lmao said:

Was Covid-19 care covered for the uninsured? 

lmao

[Anastasis 23720]

33 minutes ago, lmao said:

Was Covid-19 care covered for the uninsured? 

Vaccines are. 

[atomheartbevo 90650]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:27 PM, Chooky said:

 

And seriously.  What the fuck is going on with this picture?  I stood next to Alex Jones once and he's 5'11 tops.  Maybe.  

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

[henrygandorf 29225]

this is jack's complete lack of surprise.

bring on the horse paste, stat.

[David Dennison 19542]

Did someone say horse paste?