Thing$ $till not going well for Joe Rogan, I $ee.

[Dr. Teeth 5813]

Has he always sounded like a dainty 13 year old girl?

Edited April 27, 2021 by Dr. Teeth

[bolverk 29359]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

This is where I’m at. I enjoyed it for a long time, and mostly because of the guests. I also thought Rohan did a good job of checking his own idiocy and not trying to be the voice of anything.

Once he leaned hard into Trump, he lost me.

How dare you fucking besmirch Rohan like that?

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

seriously, what kind of dumb dildo takes medical advice from a dumb dildo like Joe Rogan?

74MM people voted for Donald Trump after he spent the previous four years showing exactly how stupid he is.

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

9 minutes ago, bolverk said:

How dare you fucking besmirch Rohan like that?

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 hour ago, Dr. Teeth said:

Has he always sounded like a dainty 13 year old girl?

I got some old Fear Factor episodes on Hulu when he was young. The answer is yes.

[Al_4_ISU 12408]

How dare you fucking besmirch Rohan like that?

 

Fucking auto correct.

[troph 24547]

4 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I think we are trending for this to be objectively true, but we can’t sit here months ago when I first posted that you quoted and pretend to know that then. We still don’t have great clarity on long term effects, as it is. What you are advocating for is a blind trust to private and public markets which in 2021, you can understand the apprehension. Which is also why BIPOC’s are less likely to be vaccinated to, as discussed previously.

At any rate, FWIW, I’ve actually been fully vaccinated (Pfizer 1&2), so I came around to seeing the value earlier than I thought I would. More power to you.

Yeah actually we could.  FDA isn’t a worthless organization and with emergency authorization we had plenty of info to compare two unknowns - one nearly completely unknown the other borne out of the evolution of nearly 100 years of vaccine science.  I’m as critical of a thinker as anyone, and it’s evident in how I work and my philosophy in practicing law and acting as an advisor. I want data, I ask questions, I won’t accept lazy answers, and in this case at no time did the scales ever point to delaying getting the vaccine even though there were some unknowns as the vaccines emerged.  Rigorous science was applied to the entire process and science is winning.  This was a classic case of biased thinking. There is not active choice to do nothing so our brains only evaluate the risk of action - getting the vaccine, but we must realize doing nothing is an act as well. At all times the right decision has been to get the vaccine and it’s never been a close call.

[Beau Vine 53964]

I am completely fascinated by how the same people who spent a year criticizing others for "living in fear of the virus" are now refusing to get vaxxed because "we don't know the long-term effects!"

[Beau Vine 53964]

 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

42 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I am completely fascinated by how the same people who spent a year criticizing others for "living in fear of the virus" are now refusing to get vaxxed because "we don't know the long-term effects!"

[lmao 178]

4 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

he's also looking pretty, pretty rough.

I mean he's in his 50s. But yeah running gear and growth for decades can't be good.

[Mdhorn 5908]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

DING DING DING.  Morons define the risks from COVID only by considering the most extreme bad outcome (death), disregarding all the other bad outcomes which occur at a 20X rate of frequency (hospitalization, long-term health damage, etc.).....while they simultaneously consider ALL possible negative effects of vaccines (from the super-rare risk of death, all the way down to feeling achy), and then weigh those things against each other equally.  Again....horrible at data, facts, and math.

Quarantining and social distancing didn't cure but helped limit the spread of Black Death.  I really don't understand the problem with masks though.  It's not that big of an inconvenience and was warmer in the cooler weather, allowed for more people to leave you alone and didn't have to care what you looked like beneath it.  Just ate a brownie or a salad?  Forget about it, just throw a mask on.  Also, maybe a plague isn't so bad.

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1540/medieval-cures-for-the-black-death/

The only effective means of stopping the spread of the plague – though not curing it – was separating the sick from the well through quarantine. The port city of Ragusa (modern-day Dubrovnik, Croatia), at that time under the control of Venice, was the first to initiate this practice through a 30-day isolation period imposed on arriving ships. Ragusa's population had been heavily depleted by the plague in 1348 CE, and they recognized that the disease was infectious and could be transmitted by people. Ragusa's policy was effective and was adopted by other cities and extended to 40 days under the law of quarantino (40 days) which gives English its word quarantine.

Although quarantine and social distancing seem to have had a positive effect, governments were slow to implement the policies and people reluctant to follow them. Kohn writes:

Milan, on the other hand, imposed stricter measures and enforcement and had greater success in controlling the spread of the disease. The Milanese authorities tolerated no dissension among the citizenry in obeying the laws of quarantine, at one point completely sealing the infected occupants of three houses in their homes where, presumably, they died. In 1350 CE, they built a structure outside the city walls – the pesthouse – where plague victims were housed and caregivers could tend them. The plague doctors are famously depicted in cloaks and hats with beaked masks which were thought to protect the wearer by distancing the physician's face – especially the nose and mouth – from the infected patient.

Conclusion
As the plague raged on, other measures were attempted such as washing money with vinegar, fumigating letters and documents with incense, and encouraging people to think positive thoughts as it seemed to become clear that a patient's general attitude greatly affected the chances of survival. None of these proved as effective as separating the infected from the healthy but people still broke quarantine and continued the spread of the disease.

By the time the plague had run its course, over 30 million people – 30-50% of the population of Europe – were dead. The loss of population transformed European society, ending the feudal system, establishing wages for former serfs, and elevating women's status in that many mothers, wives, and daughters survived the males of the family and assumed their roles.

Kohn notes that, “to many historians, the Black Death marked the end of the Middle Ages and the start of the modern age” (28). This conclusion is sound in that, afterwards, people's disillusionment with the religious, political, and medical paradigms of the past inspired them to seek alternatives, and these would eventually find full expression in the Renaissance which lay the foundation for the world of the modern era.  

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Mdhorn

[Beau Vine 53964]

Daydrinking in the office is much easier with masks required.  Just sayin'.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Yeah actually we could.  FDA isn’t a worthless organization and with emergency authorization we had plenty of info to compare two unknowns - one nearly completely unknown the other borne out of the evolution of nearly 100 years of vaccine science.  I’m as critical of a thinker as anyone, and it’s evident in how I work and my philosophy in practicing law and acting as an advisor. I want data, I ask questions, I won’t accept lazy answers, and in this case at no time did the scales ever point to delaying getting the vaccine even though there were some unknowns as the vaccines emerged.  Rigorous science was applied to the entire process and science is winning.  This was a classic case of biased thinking. There is not active choice to do nothing so our brains only evaluate the risk of action - getting the vaccine, but we must realize doing nothing is an act as well. At all times the right decision has been to get the vaccine and it’s never been a close call.

I respect your opinion, but I think you are taking too declarative and assured a stance on this one.

Before 2020, nobody had ever taken an mRNA vaccine so there was absolutely an unknown and risk of mid-to-longterm side-effects. As of this post, today, there still is unknowns in the longterm, even--(which is the case for all new vaccines admittedly, but especially amplified when it's a whole new methodology and modality of vaccination).

There is a bit of leap of faith with all new vaccines, necessarily. Add on the fact that the vaccine was obviously a rush-job with a ton of investment and resources poured into them for obvious reasons, there is a reasonable and rational place where I think some vaccine hesitancy can exist among mentally healthy Americans. As late as November of 2020 medical professionals were dubious and hesitant as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/21/vaccines-advocates-nurses-doctors-coronavirus/

And while this above is for the mRNA vaccination, the alternative was the J&J traditional vax. For many, many people that was a problematic vaccination or a non-starter based on principle and faith, so unless you want to argue someone's principles and faith, you can see how there would be a hesitancy. 

Like I said, I ended up getting fully vax'ed and decided that the ROI was worth the risk, but I don't begrudge young, healthy Americans who want to wait and see how things further shake out and I think their ask is reasonable.

 

[Anastasis 23375]

Meat head gonna meat head.

 

[troph 24547]

7 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I respect your opinion, but I think you are taking too declarative and assured a stance on this one.

Before 2020, nobody had ever taken an mRNA vaccine so there was absolutely an unknown and risk of mid-to-longterm side-effects. As of this post, today, there still is unknowns in the longterm, even--(which is the case for all new vaccines admittedly, but especially amplified when it's a whole new methodology and modality of vaccination).

There is a bit of leap of faith with all new vaccines, necessarily. Add on the fact that the vaccine was obviously a rush-job with a ton of investment and resources poured into them for obvious reasons, there is a reasonable and rational place where I think some vaccine hesitancy can exist among mentally healthy Americans. As late as November of 2020 medical professionals were dubious and hesitant as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/21/vaccines-advocates-nurses-doctors-coronavirus/

And while this above is for the mRNA vaccination, the alternative was the J&J traditional vax. For many, many people that was a problematic vaccination or a non-starter based on principle and faith, so unless you want to argue someone's principles and faith, you can see how there would be a hesitancy. 

Like I said, I ended up getting fully vax'ed and decided that the ROI was worth the risk, but I don't begrudge young, healthy Americans who want to wait and see how things further shake out and I think their ask is reasonable.

 

I hear you, I’m not dismissing the unknowns of mRNA vaccines. But by the time the FDA gave emergency clearance we had plenty of information. And in your response you did not counter balance any information you presented about vaccine risk with the the risks of covid. That’s exactly how people have failed to evaluate this. I never said the vax is 100% safe, my proposition is the risk of the vaccine compared to the risk of covid presents an overwhelming case in favor of taking the vaccine. I’m very confident the analysis has always led to this conclusion from the moment authorization - based on clinical trials - was given by the FDA.

As for faith, yeah I’ll avoid that one, I have a hard enough time with the critical thinkers who won’t take the vax, I don’t think I can handle the “God told me he’s gonna take care of me” crowd. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by troph

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

The argument against mRNA vaccines seems to be some variation of time. mRNA tech has been around for 20-30 years but yes these were the first vaccines approved for widespread use. There have been tests for mRNA vaccines for other diseases but they never progressed past testing. I’m fairly certain a Zika mRNA vaccine was tested on humans. Vaccine scientists know that mRNA does not turn you into a zombie.

For those that want more testing/time to observe side effects, what is your opinion on the right amount of time? Did you want another year? Five? Were you supportive of extending lockdowns or business closures for that time?

If you listen to someone who says we need more time, and they cannot provide more information, they do not know what they’re talking about. It’s fine to be ignorant but it’s dangerous to communicate ignorant ideas.

mRNA tech seems like an “overnight” medical breakthrough that started in the 80s.

[troph 24547]

46 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The argument against mRNA vaccines seems to be some variation of time. mRNA tech has been around for 20-30 years but yes these were the first vaccines approved for widespread use. There have been tests for mRNA vaccines for other diseases but they never progressed past testing. I’m fairly certain a Zika mRNA vaccine was tested on humans. Vaccine scientists know that mRNA does not turn you into a zombie.

For those that want more testing/time to observe side effects, what is your opinion on the right amount of time? Did you want another year? Five? Were you supportive of extending lockdowns or business closures for that time?

If you listen to someone who says we need more time, and they cannot provide more information, they do not know what they’re talking about. It’s fine to be ignorant but it’s dangerous to communicate ignorant ideas.

mRNA tech seems like an “overnight” medical breakthrough that started in the 80s.

100 years of vaccine science.  Arguably the greatest medical advancement in the history of humankind. 

[hpslugga 4039]

15 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

seriously, what kind of dumb dildo takes medical advice from a dumb dildo like Joe Rogan?

I mean to me that seems to be the central question in this micro-controversy. Furthermore, when Rogan says "I'll go no," on what is he basing that choice? Ultimately it gets boiled down to the same aforementioned pseudo-scientific and pseudo-intellectual bullshit that people like Rogan live to defend. I'm about as anti-establishment as it gets, so I'm very sympathetic when dissenters make themselves heard. But where he's coming from isn't a position of dissent; it's a position of what's called "being a contrarian little asshole."

Edited April 28, 2021 by hpslugga

[Gourmand 7774]

Chiming in to remind y'all that this is the same dumb motherfucker who had Dan Crenshaw on recently and nodded in agreement when Crenshaw argued against the stimulus package by saying that suffering was good for people. Then, when Crenshaw talked about the $75,000 income threshold, the out-of-touch hundred millionaire onnit brain douchebag was literally shocked and outraged to learn that every individual in the country under the income cutoff got stimulus checks regardless of employment status.

Joe: "People that didn't lose any money because of the pandemic still got checks? WHATTT??!?! Really?!?!

Dan:  "Yeah, it's ridiculous."  

Joe: "I didn't know that. I thought you had to lose your job, I thought that was the problem....Wait, so people who never lost a penny, if they didn't lose any money...."

 

That's how completely lost and stupid this rich fuckin twat has become. He either legitimately didn't know that OR he was pandering to Crenshaw and his audience of dolts to show his right-wing stripes.

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

I’m sure Dan pointed out all the grifting business that filed for PPP loans that didn’t lose money during the pandemic. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The argument against mRNA vaccines seems to be some variation of time. mRNA tech has been around for 20-30 years but yes these were the first vaccines approved for widespread use. There have been tests for mRNA vaccines for other diseases but they never progressed past testing. I’m fairly certain a Zika mRNA vaccine was tested on humans. Vaccine scientists know that mRNA does not turn you into a zombie.

For those that want more testing/time to observe side effects, what is your opinion on the right amount of time? Did you want another year? Five? Were you supportive of extending lockdowns or business closures for that time?

If you listen to someone who says we need more time, and they cannot provide more information, they do not know what they’re talking about. It’s fine to be ignorant but it’s dangerous to communicate ignorant ideas.

mRNA tech seems like an “overnight” medical breakthrough that started in the 80s.

Not sure about the testing as you mentioned, but it's a verifiable fact that before 2020 covid vax, mRNA vaccines have never been used on human beings much less in such volume and at once.

Good question about what people need and what the right amount of time is-- I think that's a personal value for everyone to decide on their own-- and I think you are right to couple that question with the corollary, "well are you supportive of lockdowns and business closures as well". 

For me personally, I was not okay with the lockdown of economy and business closures being extended and so, while initially hesitant if not resistant, so I got the vax. I think most people who are anti-vax are probably also anti-lockdown, etc. which I think is problematic.

But if you want to say that you aren't ready to take the vax and want time to wait and were one of those folks who also thought lockdowns and mask mandates and all those things to continue were the best course of action, I think there is data integrity there with that person and they have every right to defend their position, and is not one of ignorance.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

4 hours ago, troph said:

I never said the vax is 100% safe, my proposition is the risk of the vaccine compared to the risk of covid presents an overwhelming case in favor of taking the vaccine. I’m very confident the analysis has always led to this conclusion from the moment authorization - based on clinical trials - was given by the FDA.

I think you are probably right here, but I do think there is a population and demographic (young, healthy, fit, etc.) for whom the individual case by case can be made that there is more longterm risk in an unknown mRNA vaccination than there is for you getting COVID-19 and having any longterm effects, especially if add into the equation the variables for both a) someone already having gotten the antibodies by previously having and getting over COVID-19 and b) the probability that they'd never get it.

I think that is what Joe Rogan is trying to say at least, or maybe I'm projecting that is what he's trying to say because it makes sense to me.

All that said, as of press-time I would absolutely not vaccinate my children and I'd be hard-pressed to vaccinate pre-teens/teens.  I'd need to read more about the risks and odds and results that are available with teens.

[Mdhorn 5908]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m sure Dan pointed out all the grifting business that filed for PPP loans that didn’t lose money during the pandemic. 

You mean Dotard's properties that he didn't divest from? 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

12 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I think you are probably right here, but I do think there is a population and demographic (young, healthy, fit, etc.) for whom the individual case by case can be made that there is more longterm risk in an unknown mRNA vaccination than there is for you getting COVID-19 and having any longterm effects, especially if add into the equation the variables for both a) someone already having gotten the antibodies by previously having and getting over COVID-19 and b) the probability that they'd never get it.

I think that is what Joe Rogan is trying to say at least, or maybe I'm projecting that is what he's trying to say because it makes sense to me.

All that said, as of press-time I would absolutely not vaccinate my children and I'd be hard-pressed to vaccinate pre-teens/teens.  I'd need to read more about the risks and odds and results that are available with teens.

When we were fighting the Nazi menace and the Japs, do you think you would have said man, there's a good chance I might die if I sign up for that cause, as opposed to only having to live like a Frenchman if we lose...  yeah I'll eat french toast and poutine.   

Man the fuck up and take the shot. It's not that hard.  

 

Edit, but taking one for the team is too fucking hard for most "freedom fighters".  They can't even wear a mask.  

Edited April 28, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

[Mdhorn 5908]

2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

I mean to me that seems to be the central question in this micro-controversy. Furthermore, when Rogan says "I'll go no," on what is he basing that choice? Ultimately it gets boiled down to the same aforementioned pseudo-scientific and pseudo-intellectual bullshit that people like Rogan live to defend. I'm about as anti-establishment as it gets, so I'm very sympathetic when dissenters make themselves heard. But where he's coming from isn't a position of dissent; it's a position of what's called "being a contrarian little asshole."

Pretty sure Joe's going to jump all over the USPS surveillance program too...or not.  

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2655]

Goddamnit, heard of the term "herd immunity" to try to end the pandemic and protect the public at large?  And trying to head off more dangerous and potentially vaccine-resistant variants by stopping the uncontrolled circulation of this virus?

This is a public health crisis, not simply an issue of individual freedom. The vaccine-hesitant types never seem to acknowledge that. 

This "I'll wait and see" is not a reasonable middle ground because it's literally based on nothing. No metrics for when the vaccine is deemed good enough on top of all the clinical trials and authorizations. 

[hpslugga 4039]

Just now, Mdhorn said:

Pretty sure Joe's going to jump all over the USPS surveillance program too...or not.  

Hey, he’s an admitted moon landing denier (or used to be, I can’t be sure). Anything is possible with people like that.

[lmao 178]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m sure Dan pointed out all the grifting business that filed for PPP loans that didn’t lose money during the pandemic. 

Crenshaw is the worst. I saw some clips of the podcast, even Joe pushed back on his ridiculous fantasy land takes on healthcare. At least Joe supports universal healthcare, something the sitting president is staunchly against. (Yes mad)

[Mdhorn 5908]

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

When we were fighting the Nazi menace and the Japs, do you think you would have said man, there's a good chance I might die if I sign up for that cause, as opposed to only having to live like a Frenchman if we lose...  yeah I'll eat french toast and poutine.   

Man the fuck up and take the shot. It's not that hard.  

 

Edit, but taking one for the team is too fucking hard for most "freedom fighters".  They can't even wear a mask.  

Imagine them having to wear gas masks during the first WW.  Not going to do it--fuck nerve agents.  FREED-cough-O-cough, cough, gag.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

2 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Imagine them having to wear gas masks during the first WW.  Not going to do it--fuck nerve agents.  FREED-cough-O-cough, cough, gag.

You're not the boss of me!!!

[Brisketexan 104462]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

This is a public health crisis, not simply an issue of individual freedom. The vaccine-hesitant types never seem to acknowledge that. 

This. That's the essential nature of a VIRAL health threat.  No person is an island, literally -- we are all connected, what one person does or doesn't do creates risk for all other persons.

We are so insanely devoted to the church of the Most High Individual that not only do we not care about The Common Good, we've declared it an evil enemy that must be opposed at all turns because it must be opposed at all turns.

[hpslugga 4039]

Just now, lmao said:

Crenshaw is the worst. I saw some clips of the podcast, even Joe pushed back on his ridiculous fantasy land takes on healthcare. At least Joe supports universal healthcare, something the sitting president is staunchly against. (Yes mad)

I seriously think he just shops around positions and pretends to adopt them. He’s in favor of universal healthcare and UBI, but he’ll also have Tim Pool and nod in total agreement when he whines about how Twitter, Facebook, et al have some institutional bias against “conservatives.” He also supports legalizing marijuana and then expresses admiration for Alex Jones...or again, he used to admire Jones. Fucking silly man either way.

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. That's the essential nature of a VIRAL health threat.  No person is an island, literally -- we are all connected, what one person does or doesn't do creates risk for all other persons.

We are so insanely devoted to the church of the Most High Individual that not only do we not care about The Common Good, we've declared it an evil enemy that must be opposed at all turns because it must be opposed at all turns.

Thanks, Ayn Rand

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

34 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Not sure about the testing as you mentioned, but it's a verifiable fact that before 2020 covid vax, mRNA vaccines have never been used on human beings much less in such volume and at once.

 

Here is a govt study for Zika mRNA vaccines that started in 2019: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04064905

but I get it.  The Salk polio vaccine was tested on 2m kids in 1954 for 1 year before they gave it to everyone. Was that enough time? Was it ok that many contracted polio waiting on the test to complete that year?

[DonkeyCigars 144]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. That's the essential nature of a VIRAL health threat.  No person is an island, literally -- we are all connected, what one person does or doesn't do creates risk for all other persons.

We are so insanely devoted to the church of the Most High Individual that not only do we not care about The Common Good, we've declared it an evil enemy that must be opposed at all turns because it must be opposed at all turns.

I think it speaks to a lack of commonality in 2021.

People don't look across the bow and see countryman or common good. I've long said technology and the portability and interconnectivity of lightning fast speed as ruined us a country stitched loosely but held together with common strands, but the COVID-19 epidemic validated that for me. This is Exhibit A of a "rally around the flag" event where everyone regardless of sex/race/creed/etc. (at least, initially) was at risk and needed to band together. The fact that never happened outside of a few early examples of feel good "we are in this together"-type propaganda (but NOT the manufactured stuff like when Hollywood freaks making cringy content singing Imagine), tells me that short of WWIII or Russia dropping a nuke (if even those things) nothing will bind us together again. 300 million little pieces of shattered glass, we are.

With that in mind, and with the distrust of the ruling government by the faction who is out of power (30-40% of people), is it any wonder a ton of folks aren't just blindly patriotic and believe our government to be for us?

Not to digress and distract the thread here, because Joe Rogan might suck, but he's a businessman with generational wealth now based off a $120 microphone and some cannibus-inspired meandering thoughts (the problem not being him, but that there is a ton of people who he speaks to).

I'm just saying America still exists as it is and ever was because of TINA. The very moment a better, viable option exists, there will be a divorce. There are literally millions of people forced to be countrymen and neighbors due to geography that would prefer to not be and that's just a fact. On both sides, of course.

Edit to add for those not aware of TINA: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tina-there-no-alternative.asp#:~:text=Key Takeaways,existence of sub-optimal decisions.

Edited April 28, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Neonmoon 38127]

20 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

think you are probably right here, but I do think there is a population and demographic (young, healthy, fit, etc.) for whom the individual case by case can be made that there is more longterm risk in an unknown mRNA vaccination than there is for you getting COVID-19 and having any longterm effects,

I have this rube on ignore but I have to respond to the pure idiocy being espoused here. 

mRNA vaccine - 12 months of data 

COVID-19 - 18 months of data 

long term effects - BOTH UNKNOWN 

How the fuck can you say with a straight face there more unknown effects with the vaccine and not the virus?

benefits of vaccine? Protecting yourself AND THE COMMUNITY 

benefits of virus? Kills old and weak

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33824]

 

[956 Worldwide 34313]

FFS, if you find yourself even slightly inclined to defend a roided up, pothead comedian and fighting commentator in his jihad against the combined medical advice of the CDC, FDA, and every other civilized public health and disease control entity— would it kill you to just sit this one out.  You’re obviously on the wrong side. Just let the “Libs” have this one. Cause I’ll tell you a secret— they aren’t Libs, they’re doctors and all they fucking want is for you not to die or kill anyone else and for all of us to go to a fucking ball game one day.  This is not ideological no matter how bad you want it to be, just like weight limit warnings on bridges aren’t restricting your freedom or controlling your movement.
 

I am actually desperate for a constructive conservative debate on lots of things but it’s hard to take complaints about cancel culture seriously when without fail, you want to renew the stupidest gotdamn assholes for another season. 

[Chooky 13292]

As others have pointed out, the absurdity of a guy who is skeptical of medical research and data has openly discussed injecting HGH for over a decade to the point where his head now looks like a boiled gourd.  I wonder if the frantic balance of his required estrogen and testosterone replacers resembles the scales held by lady justice.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Here is a govt study for Zika mRNA vaccines that started in 2019: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04064905

but I get it.  The Salk polio vaccine was tested on 2m kids in 1954 for 1 year before they gave it to everyone. Was that enough time? Was it ok that many contracted polio waiting on the test to complete that year?

I mean as late as nearly December of 2020 you had professionals saying things like, "“Personally, I’m waiting for further data concerning T-cell responses and duration of the antibodies,” says Stanley Plotkin, a pioneering vaccinologist and former pharmaceutical executive who now consults for vaccine manufacturers. And while acknowledging that the data reported to date are “very encouraging,” Plotkin is reserving judgment on the mRNA vaccines until more results become available from late-stage trials of the many other experimental vaccines now moving their way through clinical development." https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00022-y

I just don't think it's a controversial position to be a healthy, fit, young adult and wanting to wait longer until you are more comfortable. As of today: 29% of Americans are fully vaccinated, and almost 43% have received 1+ dose. It doesn't seem to be that many people we are talking about...

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

13 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I mean as late as nearly December of 2020 you had professionals saying things like, "“Personally, I’m waiting for further data concerning T-cell responses and duration of the antibodies,” says Stanley Plotkin, a pioneering vaccinologist and former pharmaceutical executive who now consults for vaccine manufacturers. And while acknowledging that the data reported to date are “very encouraging,” Plotkin is reserving judgment on the mRNA vaccines until more results become available from late-stage trials of the many other experimental vaccines now moving their way through clinical development." https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00022-y

I just don't think it's a controversial position to be a healthy, fit, young adult and wanting to wait longer until you are more comfortable. As of today: 29% of Americans are fully vaccinated, and almost 43% have received 1+ dose. It doesn't seem to be that many people we are talking about...

The guy you quote is not referencing the safety of the vaccine but rather he just said that he reserved judgement on the full efficacy of the vaccine. 

Here is a January interview with the same guy, Plotkin, about how his main criticism of the covid vaccine was giving 2 doses when he thought 1 dose should suffice. This would get more shots into people faster. In hindsight we moved faster in the past 4 months than we dreamed possible but that was a fair point at the time.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/27/expert-covid-vaccine/

He also praises the speed in which vaccines can be developed now compared to when he was active in vaccine research. He's 88 now. He doesn't seem to criticize the advances in technology. Admittedly I know very little about vaccine development but I gather the ability to sequence a virus genome allows them to rapidly produce the RNA instructions. This will probably scare you more but Moderna claims to have designed their vaccine in 2 days. In the past scientists would take years for this step.

 

[troph 24547]

34 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I mean as late as nearly December of 2020 you had professionals saying things like, "“Personally, I’m waiting for further data concerning T-cell responses and duration of the antibodies,” says Stanley Plotkin, a pioneering vaccinologist and former pharmaceutical executive who now consults for vaccine manufacturers. And while acknowledging that the data reported to date are “very encouraging,” Plotkin is reserving judgment on the mRNA vaccines until more results become available from late-stage trials of the many other experimental vaccines now moving their way through clinical development." https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00022-y

I just don't think it's a controversial position to be a healthy, fit, young adult and wanting to wait longer until you are more comfortable. As of today: 29% of Americans are fully vaccinated, and almost 43% have received 1+ dose. It doesn't seem to be that many people we are talking about...

you had very few professionals saying that.  I don't know a single doctor that turned the mRNA vaccine down.  I don't know of a single nurse that turned it down.  finding a handful of outspoken critics who happen to be scientists or even doctors does not a solid position make.  the overwhelming consensus since the FDA emergency approval has been for everyone to be vaccinated for personal and communal reasons.  By the way, did Stanley Plotkin say he's not getting the vaccine?  if he said that, was he willing to hole up at home while he waited?  or was he waiting for more data to call the mRNA vaccines a raging success?  it's true we didn't know how long immunity would last or its effectiveness early on but that's a much different question than safety of the mRNA technology.

If you read that WaPo article though he says basically what the rest of us are saying.  vaccine science is cumulative, it's impressive, amazing breakthroughs and that we should be getting vaccinated asap.

and to your last point - the controversy is that it's not controversial to opt out of the herd immunity requirements - we all get vaccinated to protect the herd.  the fact that it's morally ok to opt out under these circumstances is the real controversy and I think science overwhelmingly supports this position.  and failure to do this will result in variants and prevent us from protecting the most vulnerable.  it's quite maddening.  and my sixteen year old is vaccinated and my preteens are next as soon as its available.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by troph

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

Rogan is not necessarily wrong that young people don't have a lot to fear from COVID. They most likely will not die from COVID and its believed that they will not suffer long term effects. Some will. Most won't. 

However that is a completely a selfish viewpoint. The main purposes of the vaccine is to limit hospitalization/death AND to avoid heavy infections that lead to others catching it. If you don't get the vaccine for the reasons Rogan states, you're pretty much telling everyone else to f-off.   The anti-JFK: ask not what you can do for your country but what the country can do for you.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33824]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Rogan is not necessarily wrong that young people don't have a lot to fear from COVID. They most likely will not die from COVID and its believed that they will not suffer long term effects. Some will. Most won't. 

However that is a completely a selfish viewpoint. The main purposes of the vaccine is to limit hospitalization/death AND to avoid heavy infections that lead to others catching it. If you don't get the vaccine for the reasons Rogan states, you're pretty much telling everyone else to f-off.   The anti-JFK: ask not what you can do for your country but what the country can do for you.

it's more than that. a vaccinated person (theoretically) cannot transmit the virus. There are people that will not be able to take the vaccine for various reasons. By not getting vaccinated otherwise healthy people can still transmit it to those who are not. It's beyond selfish. It's dangerous. Rogan needs to shut his stupid roided mouth 

[hookemATL 11596]

More mewling fucking bullshit to try and draw a false equivalency.  Yes, please take medical advice for Joe fucking Rogan. 

 

Everyone should get the shot.  If they don't, they should be denied entry into sporting events, free travel, and other spaces where they might pose a danger to others (i.e. almost everywhere).  

Science > fake science that helps reinforce selfish behavior by disingenuous twatwaffles

 

[wildcat09 29187]

A bunch of people opting out helps create new variants that kill more people. This isn't complicated.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

2 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

More mewling fucking bullshit to try and draw a false equivalency.  Yes, please take medical advice for Joe fucking Rogan. 

 

Everyone should get the shot.  If they don't, they should be denied entry into sporting events, free travel, and other spaces where they might pose a danger to others (i.e. almost everywhere).  

Science > fake science that helps reinforce selfish behavior by disingenuous twatwaffles

 

Agree. I like an announcement that I've heard at Kroger. Something like "We strongly encourage those that do not want to wear a mask to take advantage of our curbside pickup or delivery." If you don't want to get vaccinated, your ass should stay home until new cases are basically zero. Going to a game and traveling are all optional activities. Stay home.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Rogan is not necessarily wrong that young people don't have a lot to fear from COVID. They most likely will not die from COVID and its believed that they will not suffer long term effects. Some will. Most won't. 

However that is a completely a selfish viewpoint. The main purposes of the vaccine is to limit hospitalization/death AND to avoid heavy infections that lead to others catching it. If you don't get the vaccine for the reasons Rogan states, you're pretty much telling everyone else to f-off.   The anti-JFK: ask not what you can do for your country but what the country can do for you.

I think this is smack-on and, coupled with the below:

 

32 minutes ago, troph said:

and to your last point - the controversy is that it's not controversial to opt out of the herd immunity requirements - we all get vaccinated to protect the herd.  the fact that it's morally ok to opt out under these circumstances is the real controversy and I think science overwhelmingly supports this position.  and failure to do this will result in variants and prevent us from protecting the most vulnerable.  it's quite maddening.  and my sixteen year old is vaccinated and my preteens are next as soon as its available.

 

I think it leads me back to my thesis (below), which if I had to give an abstract is that we lack a commonality in 2021 and we aren't a shared fabric of people, values, beliefs, and ideals anymore. We just aren't.

Quote

 

People don't look across the bow and see countryman or common good. I've long said technology and the portability and interconnectivity of lightning fast speed as ruined us a country stitched loosely but held together with common strands, but the COVID-19 epidemic validated that for me. This is Exhibit A of a "rally around the flag" event where everyone regardless of sex/race/creed/etc. (at least, initially) was at risk and needed to band together. The fact that never happened outside of a few early examples of feel good "we are in this together"-type propaganda (but NOT the manufactured stuff like when Hollywood freaks making cringy content singing Imagine), tells me that short of WWIII or Russia dropping a nuke (if even those things) nothing will bind us together again. 300 million little pieces of shattered glass, we are.

With that in mind, and with the distrust of the ruling government by the faction who is out of power (30-40% of people), is it any wonder a ton of folks aren't just blindly patriotic and believe our government to be for us?

Not to digress and distract the thread here, because Joe Rogan might suck, but he's a businessman with generational wealth now based off a $120 microphone and some cannibus-inspired meandering thoughts (the problem not being him, but that there is a ton of people who he speaks to).

I'm just saying America still exists as it is and ever was because of TINA. The very moment a better, viable option exists, there will be a divorce. There are literally millions of people forced to be countrymen and neighbors due to geography that would prefer to not be and that's just a fact. On both sides, of course.

Edit to add for those not aware of TINA: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tina-there-no-alternative.asp#:~:text=Key Takeaways,existence of sub-optimal decisions.

 

 

[Brisketexan 104462]

2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

which if I had to give an abstract is that we lack a commonality in 2021 and we aren't a shared fabric of people, values, beliefs, and ideals anymore.

It's worse than that.  It's a split on the most fundamental level.

There's a simple principle: "we should give a shit about other people."  Not only can we not agree on that principle, which to anyone sane, seems like the most non-controversial idea you could have....a large swath of our population so despises that principle that they purposefully endeavor to work AGAINST IT.  You're  not doing "right" unless you're "hurting the right people."  It's fucking insane.

"We should give a shit about other people."  And the response is "not only no, but hell no, and if you give a shit about other people, you're a communist socialist probably muslim terrorist who should GTFO of America!"