RIP Black Mamba: Kobe Bryant dead in helicopter crash CONFIRMED

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

I was hoping not to go here, but yeah, he was a rapist.  Bully for him that he turned his life around, but he used his influence and money to silence his victim.  Once consent is taken away, the encounter should have stopped, and it should not matter how young he was at the time.  By all accounts, it continued even once consent was taken away. That is rape.

For the person who said she dropped the charges, she did not.  She refusted to testify.  Most likely, she had a lawyer who told her what that was going to be like.  I cannot say I blame her decision. The trial would have been a he said/she said extravaganza, and she most likely would have received death threats from overzealous fans.  Her life would have been ruined.

So yeah, the hand wringing and sadness around the death of a rapist who got away with it thanks to his money, influence and power....yeah, I have a hard time understanding why rational people are showing this outpouring of emotions.

[Js1 85296]

15 minutes ago, The People’s Elbow said:

Do yourself and us a favor, and find another thread in which you drop trou, pull apart your butt cheeks, and force everyone to look at you. No one wants to see a shitty asshole. 

Tom?

[mdmost 43001]

Yeah, it's great he never did anything else positive with his life after the rape allegation and civil suit 17 years ago. 

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I was hoping not to go here, but yeah, he was a rapist.  Bully for him that he turned his life around, but he used his influence and money to silence his victim.  Once consent is taken away, the encounter should have stopped, and it should not matter how young he was at the time.  By all accounts, it continued even once consent was taken away. That is rape.

For the person who said she dropped the charges, she did not.  She refusted to testify.  Most likely, she had a lawyer who told her what that was going to be like.  I cannot say I blame her decision. The trial would have been a he said/she said extravaganza, and she most likely would have received death threats from overzealous fans.  Her life would have been ruined.

So yeah, the hand wringing and sadness around the death of a rapist who got away with it thanks to his money, influence and power....yeah, I have a hard time understanding why rational people are showing this outpouring of emotions.

Yeah, color me a cynic but I question you "hoping not" to go there.    Good grief.

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I was hoping not to go here, but yeah, he was a rapist.  Bully for him that he turned his life around, but he used his influence and money to silence his victim.  Once consent is taken away, the encounter should have stopped, and it should not matter how young he was at the time.  By all accounts, it continued even once consent was taken away. That is rape.

For the person who said she dropped the charges, she did not.  She refusted to testify.  Most likely, she had a lawyer who told her what that was going to be like.  I cannot say I blame her decision. The trial would have been a he said/she said extravaganza, and she most likely would have received death threats from overzealous fans.  Her life would have been ruined.

So yeah, the hand wringing and sadness around the death of a rapist who got away with it thanks to his money, influence and power....yeah, I have a hard time understanding why rational people are showing this outpouring of emotions.

You’re awfully concerned about other people. I guess when you’re perfect staring down your nose at others you have free time to give a shit what others do.   Perhaps close your laptop go back to watching the view or what ever other pussy shit you partake in and quit concerning yourself with what others are feeling 

or just fuck yourself. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Just now, d2o said:

Yeah, color me a cynic but I question you "hoping not" to go there.    Good grief.

I have been on this thread since the beginning.  Others brought it up, but I kept out of it.  Then I get vilified for my stance that the mourning shown so far is excessive, yeah, I am going to explain why I have a hard time mourning him.  

To @Spankytoes who asked about all the good he had done, if he had properly paid for his crime, then I would agree with you.  But he never paid for his crime, not really.  

[mdmost 43001]

Well thank goodness you're here to hold him accountable. 

[StruggleBus 3922]

55 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No, it does not.  I could give a shit about basketball or the NBA.  Basketball as never been my sport.  However, there were many people upthread who were saying they never got to see him play in person.  I did.  Does not make me more qualified or anything like that.  I just do not understand people that allow famous people/celebrities to hold that important a place in their lives.  I prefer for my role models and influences to be a little closer to home.

fuck off already

[Assman 1830]

24 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I was hoping not to go here, but yeah, he was a rapist.  Bully for him that he turned his life around, but he used his influence and money to silence his victim.  Once consent is taken away, the encounter should have stopped, and it should not matter how young he was at the time.  By all accounts, it continued even once consent was taken away. That is rape.

For the person who said she dropped the charges, she did not.  She refusted to testify.  Most likely, she had a lawyer who told her what that was going to be like.  I cannot say I blame her decision. The trial would have been a he said/she said extravaganza, and she most likely would have received death threats from overzealous fans.  Her life would have been ruined.

So yeah, the hand wringing and sadness around the death of a rapist who got away with it thanks to his money, influence and power....yeah, I have a hard time understanding why rational people are showing this outpouring of emotions.

It seems you're having trouble separating fact from opinion so let me help you out:

Fact

Kobe was accused of rape

Kobe was never convicted of rape

Kobe denied the allegations

There are only 2 (now 1) people on this planet that know what happened that night and one of them is not you

Opinion

Kobe is a rapist

Kobe isn't a rapist

The whole thing was fabricated to extort money from Kobe

The accuser got drunk, made a bad decision, and accused Kobe of rape later to make herself feel better

 

So if you're going to hold someone in a certain regard based solely on something that you don't even know is true, that's fine, but that doesn't allow you to tell others how they should feel about him.

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

13 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I have been on this thread since the beginning.  Others brought it up, but I kept out of it.  Then I get vilified for my stance that the mourning shown so far is excessive, yeah, I am going to explain why I have a hard time mourning him.  

To @Spankytoes who asked about all the good he had done, if he had properly paid for his crime, then I would agree with you.  But he never paid for his crime, not really.  

No one cares why you're struggling to not mourn. Usually when someone dies tragically and I don't care, I don't talk or post about it. You are now on like post 6 or 7 about how you "don't care" and you Clearly do. As far as the rape stuff, guilty or not guilty his kids and wife loved him and I still believe in people having the ability to make changes for the better even after a horrific mistake. None of that has to do with why you feel the need come on here and set everyone straight for "being over the top" in emotion for Kobe. Who are you to come tell people how to respond to anything? 

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

1 minute ago, Assman said:

It seems you're having trouble separating fact from opinion so let me help you out:

Fact

Kobe was accused of rape

Kobe was never convicted of rape

Kobe denied the allegations

There are only 2 (now 1) people on this planet that know what happened that night and one of them is not you

Opinion

Kobe is a rapist

Kobe isn't a rapist

The whole thing was fabricated to extort money from Kobe

The accuser got drunk, made a bad decision, and accused Kobe of rape later to make herself feel better

 

So if you're going to hold someone in a certain regard based solely on something that you don't even know is true, that's fine, but that doesn't allow you to tell others how they should feel about him.

Bro don't you know if a woman accuses it's always true? #metoo

[Murfdogg21 4412]

Never thought a board of Texas fans would choose Kobe Bryant as their hill to die on making excuses for non-consensual sex. 

[Zepol87 9185]

Took longer than I thought to turn into a shit show good job.

Why do people care how other people mourn or handle grief? Who the hell cares?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

The reactions here to someone questioning the adulation is part of the reason the MeToo movement happened.  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7932771/Journalist-suspended-tweeting-link-story-Kobe-Bryants-rape-case-2003.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/wrestling-in-with-kobe-bryants-forgotten-apology/

I hope to Christ none of you negging me for calling this out have daughters that are every put in a similar situation that that young woman, the other accuser of Kobe's (yes, there was a second), any of the Rothlisberger's accusers, or the thousands of women who have been victims of date rape or other sexual assaults have been put in.

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

3 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Never thought a board of Texas fans would choose Kobe Bryant as their hill to die on making excuses for non-consensual sex. 

It is disgusting.  

[Wally Pryor 5261]

Nicholson, who rarely does interviews.

https://toofab.com/2020/01/27/jack-nicholson-remembers-kobe-bryant-after-terrible-death/

 

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

Watch out Jack! Penelope is out to make sure you know you shouldn't mourn him because she has 3 links to articles!!!!

[Hate 20107]

I was hoping not to go here, but yeah, he was a rapist.  Bully for him that he turned his life around, but he used his influence and money to silence his victim.  Once consent is taken away, the encounter should have stopped, and it should not matter how young he was at the time.  By all accounts, it continued even once consent was taken away. That is rape.

For the person who said she dropped the charges, she did not.  She refusted to testify.  Most likely, she had a lawyer who told her what that was going to be like.  I cannot say I blame her decision. The trial would have been a he said/she said extravaganza, and she most likely would have received death threats from overzealous fans.  Her life would have been ruined.

So yeah, the hand wringing and sadness around the death of a rapist who got away with it thanks to his money, influence and power....yeah, I have a hard time understanding why rational people are showing this outpouring of emotions.

 

You also applied your disdain for celebrity death mourning to other celebrities who presumably were never implicated in any crime. Nice deflection though.

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

Jack Nicholson sounds drugged up or drunk af in that interview. Or maybe he's just 82? 

[Gene Parmesan 4004]

So at first you didn't understand why everyone was acting devastated when they didn't know him, and their expressions were over the top, but now you are just disgusted that people care for him at all?

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Jack Nicholson sounds drugged up or drunk af in that interview. Or maybe he's just 82? 

Doesn't he have Alzheimer's or something like that?   

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

3 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Jack Nicholson sounds drugged up or drunk af in that interview. Or maybe he's just 82? 

[C-Man 27197]

1 hour ago, Assman said:

LOL.  As if this makes you somehow more credible because you watched him play basketball for 3 years.

Everyone grieves differently.  All because you don't grieve in the same way doesn't mean others are wrong.  I grew up in SA in the late 80s and early 90s, and I can say without a doubt that David Robinson had more influence on me than probably anyone outside my parents.  If the Admiral died today, you fuckin' A right I'd probably be curled up in a ball on the grounds of Hemisphere Arena.

Hemisfair. 😀

Carry on.

[Bartles 769]

I'm with Penelope, other than I won't tell other people how to react. His play influenced a ton of young athletes who are now in their prime, and we can't expect them not to be publicly upset. But the Colorado deal was a more clear case than Jameis and a some of the Baylor ones. Kobe's own statement practically confirms all the details except the consent part. Saying "only two people know" is an outdated male response designed to make victims give up hope and keep quiet. There are thousands of professionals who study these incidents and they may not "know" what happened but they can give you a damn good probability (hint: 90 percent plus)

There's a basketball memories thread on the Basketball board. I do appreciate the insider helicopter stuff here.

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

Doesn't he have Alzheimer's or something like that?   

Does he? damn I didn't know that. 

[Wally Pryor 5261]

4 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Jack Nicholson sounds drugged up or drunk af in that interview. Or maybe he's just 82? 

Seems like he always sounded like that.  52 or 82.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

6 minutes ago, Hate said:

 

You also applied your disdain for celebrity death mourning to other celebrities who presumably were never implicated in any crime. Nice deflection though.

You are right.  I do not understand mourning celebrities.  However, seeing the adulation for Kobe is an absolute slap in the face.  Oh, he raped someone in 2003 and had another accuser come forward around the same time, oh well.  Look at how great of a basketball player he was.  No fucking wonder women who are victims do not come forward.  This is the shit we have to deal with.

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Does he? damn I didn't know that. 

He made an announcement of some diagnosis a few years back.   I just forget what it is but because of that he cut back on his appearances and was not doing any more movies.    I swear it was Alzheimer's as they said he wasn't able to remember lines.

 

EDIT:  Guess it was not officially announced as Alzheimer's but it was due to his inability to remember his lines.

https://vt.co/entertainment/celebrity/heres-real-reason-jack-nicholson-forced-retire-hollywood/

Edited January 27, 2020 by d2o

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

2 minutes ago, Bartles said:

I'm with Penelope, other than I won't tell other people how to react. His play influenced a ton of young athletes who are now in their prime, and we can't expect them not to be publicly upset. But the Colorado deal was a more clear case than Jameis and a some of the Baylor ones. Kobe's own statement practically confirms all the details except the consent part. Saying "only two people know" is an outdated male response designed to make victims give up hope and keep quiet. There are thousands of professionals who study these incidents and they may not "know" what happened but they can give you a damn good probability (hint: 90 percent plus)

There's a basketball memories thread on the Basketball board. I do appreciate the insider helicopter stuff here.

[Sbbruin 21830]

8 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Jack Nicholson sounds drugged up or drunk af in that interview. Or maybe he's just 82? 

He has only gone to one game this year.  He has pretty much stayed out of the public eye 'cuz he is sliding quick.

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

Theres some great discussion on reddit in the helicopter section.  This guy "witnessed" it

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

we need a segregated Internet. one thread for Kobe was awesome, one for God I'm so sad a celebrity athlete died, one for I hope Kobe rots in hell for raping someone, one for helicopter insight, one for retiring jersey talk, maybe one for I don't understand why people care, one for tasteless helicopter jokes, one for tasteless Vanessa Bryant jokes... I think that's about it

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Penelope Witherspoon's Travel Thread
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=2053247&share_tid=324&url=https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/324-Penelope-Witherspoon%27s-Travel-Thread&share_type=t&link_source=app

Take the Penelope thread shitting to the Penelope thread

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

He has only gone to one game this year.  He has pretty much stayed out of the public eye 'cuz he is sliding quick.

You better take down your avatar you DISGUSTING CAVE MAN!!!

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Double post

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

2 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

we need a segregated Internet.

Pretty racist 

[pops 6981]

13 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Couldn't find a white Knight gif?

[Sbbruin 21830]

8 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Theres some great discussion on reddit in the helicopter section.  This guy "witnessed" it

 

 

Wow, that pretty much seals it for me.  If you are familiar with this stretch of the 101, it is a series of small little valleys/canyons for about 5-6 miles.  He was following the 101, it got so thick at the Lost Hills exit he lost his bearings, and instead of following the 101, he lost track of it and ended up in the canyon off Las Virgenes.  This little canyons can create almost like a bowl, and the fog/clouds just pooled in it.  Pilot probably didn't even see the hillside until it was too late.  This guy really had good detail in his eyewitness account.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Pilot probably didn't even see the hillside until it was too late. 

at that speed, he would barely have had time for what he was seeing to register before impact-- like before he could complete the thought "oh shit" he'd be dead as a doornail 

I hope that was true of everyone on board. They always said that everyone on Stevie Ray's copter died instantaneously and I always think "I fucking hope so". 

[Sbbruin 21830]

1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

at that speed, he would barely have had time for what he was seeing to register before impact-- like before he could complete the thought "oh shit" he'd be dead as a doornail 

I hope that was true of everyone on board. They always said that everyone on Stevie Ray's copter died instantaneously and I always think "I fucking hope so". 

Exactly what I was thinking.  But I also imagine there was some panic on board when people noticed they couldn't see jack shit.  Hopefully the pilot wasn't freaking out and sending a panic into everyone.  

I don't know shit about flying a helicopter.  Went in my fist one in my life this summer in Hawaii.  But if I couldn't see shit, I assume he has an altimeter that would allow him to slowly lower to a visible altitude.  But I guess you wouldn't know what altitude ground level is.  

 

[Pasken 1309]

2 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

at that speed, he would barely have had time for what he was seeing to register before impact-- like before he could complete the thought "oh shit" he'd be dead as a doornail 

I hope that was true of everyone on board. They always said that everyone on Stevie Ray's copter died instantaneously and I always think "I fucking hope so". 

We don't know how fast the copter was going. I think it's very unlikely he was moving very fast in those conditions after he lost his landmark of the highway. I assume there is a black box they can analyze to give us a better idea of what was going on.

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

Hopefully the pilot wasn't freaking out and sending a panic into everyone.  

[Sbbruin 21830]

1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

imgur no workie on here.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, Pasken said:

We don't know how fast the copter was going

you might be a little behind, which surprises me given how on-topic this thread has been

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

imgur no workie on here.

Oh really? It works for me (I see the picture)

reposting it feels like spam. I'll put it somewhere else

 

[C-Man 27197]

1 minute ago, Pasken said:

We don't know how fast the copter was going. I think it's very unlikely he was moving very fast in those conditions after he lost his landmark of the highway. I assume there is a black box they can analyze to give us a better idea of what was going on.

 

 

Thought it's being widely reported the helicopter was going 160 knots (184 mph) when it crashed into the mountain.

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

20 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Wow, that pretty much seals it for me.  If you are familiar with this stretch of the 101, it is a series of small little valleys/canyons for about 5-6 miles.  He was following the 101, it got so thick at the Lost Hills exit he lost his bearings, and instead of following the 101, he lost track of it and ended up in the canyon off Las Virgenes.  This little canyons can create almost like a bowl, and the fog/clouds just pooled in it.  Pilot probably didn't even see the hillside until it was too late.  This guy really had good detail in his eyewitness account.  

Yep, almost def CFIT

[oSuJeff97 3435]

20 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Wow, that pretty much seals it for me.  If you are familiar with this stretch of the 101, it is a series of small little valleys/canyons for about 5-6 miles.  He was following the 101, it got so thick at the Lost Hills exit he lost his bearings, and instead of following the 101, he lost track of it and ended up in the canyon off Las Virgenes.  This little canyons can create almost like a bowl, and the fog/clouds just pooled in it.  Pilot probably didn't even see the hillside until it was too late.  This guy really had good detail in his eyewitness account.  

Yeah seems clearly like VFR into IMC.  Did I read earlier that they were on a VFR flight plan?  

[aggie08 21492]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Agreed. And that’s terrible. We have a problem with entertainer celebrity worship. They’re just people, albeit highly skilled at something we love. I get why they’re adored but the other 7 are afterthoughts. And that is sad. 

The other side of the coin is that, if a helicopter crashes without Kobe on board, it makes the top story on all the local news channels that day, then is never thought or spoken of again.

[HouTex 1866]

Thought it's being widely reported the helicopter was going 160 knots (184 mph) when it crashed into the mountain.

The top speed for that helo is 177 mph and the cruising speed is 155. So, free fall? Did they hit something causing it to go faster? If not, its crazy that they were going that fast in those conditions.