RIP Black Mamba: Kobe Bryant dead in helicopter crash CONFIRMED

[d2o 1602]

8 hours ago, Pasken said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/briannasacks/kobe-bryant-helicopter-nearly-cleared-hill

“The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant, his daughter, and seven others was trying to ascend above a fog-shrouded hill when it slammed into the ravine and dropped 2,000 feet per minute to the ground below, federal investigators said Tuesday.

Shortly before 10 a.m. Sunday, the Sikorsky S-76 chopper with nine people aboard climbed to about 2,300 feet seemingly in an attempt to clearthe thick cloud layer. It hit part of a ravine in the Calabasas and fell, crashing in an area on the hillside 1,085 feet above sea level, National Transportation Safety Board member Jennifer Homendy said.

The helicopter plunged into a steep descent with a rate of "over 2,000 feet per minute," making it a "high-energy impact crash."

"This is a pretty steep descent at high speed," Homendy said. "It wouldn't be a normal landing speed."

The time from descent to impact was about a minute, she added.

The helicopter was navigating a canyon with multiple hills and peaks, NTSB investigator Bill English noted, describing the area as a "ravine with undulating terrain."

"The main impact was about 20 to 30 feet from that small hill, but there were other higher hills surrounding it…it’s in a canyon with small hills within it," he said.....”

Fuck that is terrible.

[Pam Cummings 9689]

You would think that if they knew they were in trouble you would hear the pilot communicating that to the tower. I really hope that it was sudden.

[Sbbruin 21904]

That's terrible if that's what happened.  It sure didn't sound like that on the audio of the doorbell.

That's what I was thinking.

[BTW 370]

The old adage is "1) Aviate, 2) Navigate, 3) Communicate"  I'm betting that minute was filled with the pilot trying desperate to press the collective through the floor to slow their decent and possibly briefing the passengers to take crash ready positions. 

[C-Man 27293]

10 hours ago, Hate said:

That's awful. It means they all knew what was about to happen. 

Yup.  That helicopter should never have been allowed to be flying in conditions like that.

If the LA airspace is so crowded that you aren't allowed to operate at a height that assures clearance around all area terrain, they shouldn't be allowed up in the air with visibility like that.

[Lat22 4046]

Not to dwell on it, but that Nest doorbell video was 43 seconds long.  It ends at impact.  The impact is unmistakable.  Are they telling us that the helicopter hit a ridge 20 seconds before that video started and was already out of control and decending?  It sure sounded to me like it flew over the house (under control) and right into the terrain.

[markstanco 12640]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

You would think that if they knew they were in trouble you would hear the pilot communicating that to the tower. I really hope that it was sudden.

If you are trying to get control of an aircraft, a courtesy call to Los Angeles Approach is the last thing on your mind. 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

6 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

Not to dwell on it, but that Nest doorbell video was 43 seconds long.  It ends at impact.  The impact is unmistakable.  Are they telling us that the helicopter hit a ridge 20 seconds before that video started and was already out of control and decending?  It sure sounded to me like it flew over the house (under control) and right into the terrain.

This is where my confusion comes in as well.  If that Nest video is correct their first impact would have happened prior to the video starting.  A rapid descent for a minute would lend them to be fairly high up.  If the ceiling is 2500 ft(IIRC), impact was at ~1000 ft and descent was rapid, would they not fall further than 1500 ft in one minute?  

 

Que, "I was told there would be no math" gif with Chevy.  

[Your Mom 4860]

I'm confused by this as well.  They have mentioned a 2000 foot per minute descent several times, maybe 2500fpm.  That rate of descent is nothing unusual.  It's not even close to a freefall or out of control situation, not based on rate of descent anyway.  A normal descent in an airplane going those speeds can be in the neighborhood of 2000fpm.   If you can accept the higher airspeed 4000+fpm is nothing unusual.  For perspective, a very shallow descent, like just before landing on a runway is about 900fpm minute at the same speeds that helo was traveling.  The 2000fpm descent number just doesn't strike me as catastrophic.  The way I read it the helicopter hit the ridge, but not so hard as to be knocked out of the sky, but probably damaged and that 2000fpm descent is at least partially controlled flight, not some sort of crashing freefall.  I think they hit the ground at the end with at least some semblance of controlled flight.  

[Sbbruin 21904]

Jeanie Buss finally posted"

 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Yup.  That helicopter should never have been allowed to be flying in conditions like that.

If the LA airspace is so crowded that you aren't allowed to operate at a height that assures clearance around all area terrain, they shouldn't be allowed up in the air with visibility like that.

Yeah, what they were doing is absolutely business as usual in LA and other very busy places. 

More risky in a single pilot environment using less than modern equipment?  Sure. But they’re got airliners between those hills on approach to BUR all day long as well as private aircraft to VNY, and to a lesser extend Oxnard and Camarillo. 

I’ve never flow special VFR, but he was using the system to his advantage by filing to  VFR airport and then requesting a Special VFR clearance probably through tower enroute control and lined up the Swiss cheese just right that day. I guarantee that what he was doing happens on a daily basis, and they aren’t about to change it. 

Btw, I would assume that he managed to get the thing nearly inverted in IMC and that explains the speed increase and rapid rate of descent up to 4800fpm. Probably pulling up the whole way. 

[XYZ 2154]

You can get a helicopter upside down?

[C-Man 27293]

9 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Btw, I would assume that he managed to get the thing nearly inverted in IMC and that explains the speed increase and rapid rate of descent up to 4800fpm. Probably pulling up the whole way. 

Goddamn nightmare fuel.

[ConferenceRoom 6147]

2 minutes ago, XYZ said:

You can get a helicopter upside down?

You think jet jockeys are the only ones keeping up foreign relations?

[C-Man 27293]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

You can get a helicopter upside down?

My cousin who is in his late 60's flew helicopters in the Marines. His last service detail was flying Marine One from time to time (might've mentioned earlier in this thread) around the time of Reagan 2nd term, Bush I. It's been awhile but I'm pretty sure he's told stories of doing loops with rookies next to them with the hope of making them refund their breakfast in their masks.

[Your Mom 4860]

 

[XYZ 2154]

So, assuming that what happened is that the pilot inverted the helicopter...like...how do you do that without intending to? Did he get disoriented? Isn’t there an “artificial horizon” or whatever it’s called in the instruments that helps with that?

[immortal13 4059]

19 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Did he get disoriented? 

 

[Quagmire 2147]

You can get a helicopter upside down?

Yeah it’s great to get your yard moved in under a minute

[Sbbruin 21904]

2 hours ago, Your Mom said:

 

[Junior Miller 1502]

The whole Ari Shaffir situation is hilarious. Dumbass is getting death threats 

[Brothahorn 10087]

[El Tri 412]

1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:

 

so fucked up but funny

[Assman 1830]

The math isn't adding up for me.  A 2000 fpm descent for over a minute means they were over 2000' AGL at some point, which they never were.  They might have had a 2000 fpm descent, but there's no way it was more than a few seconds right before the impact.

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Junior Miller said:

The whole Ari Shaffir situation is hilarious. Dumbass is getting death threats 

Dumbass.    He deserved every bit of the hate.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

3 hours ago, XYZ said:

So, assuming that what happened is that the pilot inverted the helicopter...like...how do you do that without intending to? Did he get disoriented? Isn’t there an “artificial horizon” or whatever it’s called in the instruments that helps with that?

A hard climbing turn could lead to something like what is known as a death spiral in planes. 

And you’d be amazed what happens when the artificial horizon in your butt disagrees with the one on the panel. 

[markstanco 12640]

You can get a helicopter upside down?

It's easier than you think. Just pull on the blue knob and the blades shift 90 degrees. Gotta have a fuel pump though, no gravity feed tanks!

[Texas_Rocks 347]

The brain can be easily tricked...even in perfect weather, in a car stopped at a stoplight. Freaked me out the first time I got the sensation of rolling into the middle of the intersection as the car adjacent to me reversed for whatever reason. Both feet mashing the brake pedal until the realization of what was actually happening. I’ve had it happen maybe twice in my lifetime.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Ah, the 'ol adjacent car going in reserve first time. We've all be there. 

[Pato del Muerto 52669]

Haven’t kept up with the thread. Is it true that all air traffic was grounded but they gave this bird permission anyway, for a basketball game?

[Deej 77005]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Haven’t kept up with the thread. Is it true that all air traffic was grounded but they gave this bird permission anyway, for a basketball game?

A kid's basketball game.

[otisdog 365]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Haven’t kept up with the thread. Is it true that all air traffic was grounded but they gave this bird permission anyway, for a basketball game?

No.

[Jkwellborn 6783]

The whole Ari Shaffir situation is hilarious. Dumbass is getting death threats 

Wha happin?

[boilerhorn 1414]

12 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Wha happin?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/comedy-club-drops-comedian-ari-shaffir-after-comment-about-kobe-bryant/

 

“Kobe Bryant died 23 years too late today,” Shaffir says in the video. “He got away with rape because all the Hollywood liberals who attack comedy enjoy rooting for the Lakers more than they dislike rape. Big ups to the hero who forgot to gas up his chopper. I hate the Lakers. What a great day.”

Shaffir was dropped by his talent agency following the tweet. On Tuesday, he posted an explanation on Instagram.

“Every time a beloved celebrity dies I post some horrible shit about them,” he wrote. “I’ve been doing it for years now. I like destroying gods. And right when a famous person dies they’re at their most worshiped. So as a response to all the outpouring of sympathy on social media, I post something vile. it’s just a joke. I don’t really hate any of the people.”

[Deej 77005]

If being offensive is wrong, just shut down this site immediately. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

Yep, and this dude within the last year drugged his friend Bert Kriescher in front of his kids. Stand up guy

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

If being offensive is wrong, just shut down this site immediately. 

Right or wrong you gotta expect backlash if you insult a recently deceased person even if they were shitty. If you're a semi celebrity who makes a living off public appearances you gotta expect professional backlash as well. 

[Deej 77005]

Just now, Junior Miller said:

Right or wrong you gotta expect backlash if you insult a recently deceased person even if they were shitty. If you're a semi celebrity who makes a living off public appearances you gotta expect professional backlash as well. 

Even if it's OJ?

[Tailgate 3026]

My wife’s sister lives in Newport Beach and was friends with one of the moms on the helicopter. And brother-in-law is close to the CEO of the Mamba Sports Academy. Her first phone call was to the wife of the CEO to make sure he was not on the helicopter. She confirmed he wasn’t but said others were but she couldn’t tell her their names at that moment. So, she didn’t find out about her other friend until later in the day.

Confirmed visibility that day was really bad.

Going from unreal to surreal.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Tailgate

[Junior Miller 1502]

9 minutes ago, Deej said:

Even if it's OJ?

Obviously there's a scale based on fame or notoriety where  the more publicly beloved a figure is the more backlash you'll find. obviously with someone like OJ or trump there will be some backlash from some groups but you won't face as much as you will with a figure that's almost universally beloved. Right or wrong to the African-American and basketball communities he was basically God to them. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

I don't get how if this pilot was so experienced he would think it's okay to go flying full bore through a valley in a thick fog. That's just sheer stupidity. I think if I'm a celebrity who helicopters around I'm telling my pilots every single time that if they get even the slightest hint that it might be unsafe to ground the motherfucker and we'll find another way

[Surly Bevo 25261]

Heard Jake talking on the Hardline a few days ago about the whole "why are you even flying" thing.  He was explaining how poor conditions for flying don't even phase the sports athlete because of their tight schedules they are always moving in shitty weather. 

He talked about Bob and Dan trying to prepare him when they were going on a trip with the Stars that "the plane will leave no matter what" and then when they were in Edmonton and taking off in shitty conditions Jake was ready to crawl into Dan's lap it was so rough due to horribly bad weather but all the players were just going on like they didn't even notice.

[Anastasis 23471]

6 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Heard Jake talking on the Hardline a few days ago about the whole "why are you even flying" thing.  He was explaining how poor conditions for flying don't even phase the sports athlete because of their tight schedules they are always moving in shitty weather. 

Fuck sports athletes.  Any business traveler in March/April going through DFW with any regularity has seen some shit on approach. 

[immortal13 4059]

4 hours ago, Assman said:

The math isn't adding up for me.  A 2000 fpm descent for over a minute means they were over 2000' AGL at some point, which they never were.  They might have had a 2000 fpm descent, but there's no way it was more than a few seconds right before the impact.

I was told there would be no math

[InkaUtexas 26266]

36 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I don't get how if this pilot was so experienced he would think it's okay to go flying full bore through a valley in a thick fog. That's just sheer stupidity. I think if I'm a celebrity who helicopters around I'm telling my pilots every single time that if they get even the slightest hint that it might be unsafe to ground the motherfucker and we'll find another way

That is you. I can easily see the pilot feeling the pressure and others pressuring him. I know of three events where people pushed the pilots to go and they did and did not work well for them. Sucks, but it happens.  

Edited January 31, 2020 by InkaUtexas

[Junior Miller 1502]

24 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

That is you. I can easily see the pilot feeling the pressure and others pressuring him. I know of three events where people pushed the pilots to go and they did and did not work well for them. Sucks, but it happens.  

Well if that's the case and they crash they kind of get what they deserved. If the pilot was such a big pussy that he was going to allow himself to die because some spoiled celebrity and some job then that's what happens. 

[markstanco 12640]

Haven’t kept up with the thread. Is it true that all air traffic was grounded but they gave this bird permission anyway, for a basketball game?

Holy shit facebook.

[markstanco 12640]

I don't get how if this pilot was so experienced he would think it's okay to go flying full bore through a valley in a thick fog. That's just sheer stupidity. I think if I'm a celebrity who helicopters around I'm telling my pilots every single time that if they get even the slightest hint that it might be unsafe to ground the motherfucker and we'll find another way

Yea this is weird as a pilot.

Synthetic Vision on an app on your ipad is $200 a year. I have literally landed with it even though not approved by the FAA. it would have showed the terrain and how close.

Having said that, he wasnt using it in a 2k per minute dive. I'm wondering if the NTSB report comes out something none of us expected.

[deech 2298]

Another shocking development in this thread.  Moving away from the pegging discussion and into helicopter flight safety practices.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

I don't get how if this pilot was so experienced he would think it's okay to go flying full bore through a valley in a thick fog. That's just sheer stupidity. I think if I'm a celebrity who helicopters around I'm telling my pilots every single time that if they get even the slightest hint that it might be unsafe to ground the motherfucker and we'll find another way

You haven’t flown enough wealthy folks/celebs. They don’t hear the word “No” very often and many think that their money/fame exempts them from the laws of nature.