Michael Cohen Investigation

[shnsajax 3591]

Russia/Putin to Assange to Hannity to Cohen/Stone to Trump doesn’t seem all that crazy anymore. 

[shnsajax 3591]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Cohen won’t be willing to go to prison for people like Trump.  He’s a fixer, not s fall guy.   

His life has already been ruined.  Even if he kept his license, everybody knows he records and documents everything, so that would kill his business. 

Until there are State charges I don’t know how much he worries. Trump could have already sent him the message that he will be pardoned. 

[atomheartbevo 89778]

4 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

Russia/Putin to Assange to Hannity to Cohen/Stone to Trump doesn’t seem all that crazy anymore. 

Seems like one of Glenn Beck’s old chalkboard conspiracy theories.  

[shnsajax 3591]

Seems like one of Glenn Beck’s old chalkboard conspiracy theories.  

You know things are messed up when Glenn Beck almost sounds normal and reasonable today.

[atomheartbevo 89778]

4 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

 

You know things are messed up when Glenn Beck almost sounds normal and reasonable today.

 

He had some batty theories when he was at Fox News, but nothing approaching things like pizzagate, or what’s been going on these days. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

So far the entire Trump administration seems to be an exercise in fulfilling the crazy fever dreams Republicans had about Obama. 

[TwiceHorn 31529]

12 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I posted in the Hannity thread that a member of the Watergate prosecution team said that in NY if you don't have a letter of engagement there is no attorney-client privilege.  

Just for the record, that is flat wrong.  It is a great indicator of when the relationship exists (or doesn't, or ends), but it is by no means the only proof of the relationship and thus the privilege.  FWIW, Hannity has said there was no a/c relationship, which would seem to end the inquiry, but he also said some of the things he talked to Cohen about were confidential, which opens the inquiry right back up.

[Brisketexan 105275]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

So far the entire Trump administration seems to be an exercise in fulfilling the crazy fever dreams Republicans had about Obama. 

There's really something to that.

Step 1: "Obama did all these evil terrible things!" [He really didn't, and/or the degree of what he did was pretty minor].  The point is, they have convinced themselves that their fever dreams are real.

Step 2: So, WE can and should do what Obama did! [Again, not what Obama actually did, but what their fever dreams are]

Step 3: DO ALL THE OBAMA THINGS!

It's fucking nuts.  "Obama was a secret traitor to the country who was corrupt and used all American assets for personal enrichment and used the DOJ to go after his enemies and he had total control of the DOJ and he golfed all the time!"  And then they do....exactly those things.

[jimmyjazz 46095]

<not even close to an attorney> I would hope it would be far more difficult for a client to blow attorney-client privilege out of the water than it would be for an attorney.  One is expected to know the law, one isn't.  Am I close?

[wildcat09 29376]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

There's really something to that.

Step 1: "Obama did all these evil terrible things!" [He really didn't, and/or the degree of what he did was pretty minor].  The point is, they have convinced themselves that their fever dreams are real.

Step 2: So, WE can and should do what Obama did! [Again, not what Obama actually did, but what their fever dreams are]

Step 3: DO ALL THE OBAMA THINGS!

It's fucking nuts.  "Obama was a secret traitor to the country who was corrupt and used all American assets for personal enrichment and used the DOJ to go after his enemies and he had total control of the DOJ and he golfed all the time!"  And then they do....exactly those things.

Every accusation is a confession. Just repeat that to yourself every time a Republican accuses someone else of any sort of bad behavior. If you want to make some dough, immediately hire a PI to find evidence of said Republican doing whatever it is he was just bitching about. Unscrupulous sorts could make some serious bank blackmailing Republicans these days. 

[TwiceHorn 31529]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There's really something to that.

Step 1: "Obama did all these evil terrible things!" [He really didn't, and/or the degree of what he did was pretty minor].  The point is, they have convinced themselves that their fever dreams are real.

Step 2: So, WE can and should do what Obama did! [Again, not what Obama actually did, but what their fever dreams are]

Step 3: DO ALL THE OBAMA THINGS!

It's fucking nuts.  "Obama was a secret traitor to the country who was corrupt and used all American assets for personal enrichment and used the DOJ to go after his enemies and he had total control of the DOJ and he golfed all the time!"  And then they do....exactly those things.

One thing that intrigues me about Trump is that he does all that nasty things other politicians do, he just does them clumsily, ham-handedly, and on an epic scale.

 

In a way, and this is a subtext to all your doomsaying, Donald J. Trump is American politics and politicians writ very large and in comic sans.

[jimmyjazz 46095]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Every accusation is a confession. Just repeat that to yourself every time a Republican accuses someone else of any sort of bad behavior. 

Weird.  My wife is very smart but not a news hound.  This morning I was telling her about the Hannity brouhaha and she said "it just seems like everything they accuse others of doing they are doing themselves, but in secret".  Bingo.

[Brisketexan 105275]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One thing that intrigues me about Trump is that he does all that nasty things other politicians do, he just does them clumsily, ham-handedly, and on an epic scale.

 

In a way, and this is a subtext to all your doomsaying, Donald J. Trump is American politics and politicians writ very large and in comic sans.

To summarize, it's the difference between a dumpster fire and the Great Fire of London.

[TwiceHorn 31529]

13 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

<not even close to an attorney> I would hope it would be far more difficult for a client to blow attorney-client privilege out of the water than it would be for an attorney.  One is expected to know the law, one isn't.  Am I close?

No.  The privilege is for the benefit of the client.  If a client wants to insist that there is no attorney client relationship and knows, therefore, that there will be no privilege attached to their communications, then that pretty much ends the inquiry.  The privilege "belongs" to the client, the attorney cannot breach it or waive it without the client's permission at pain of disbarment and civil damages.  Conversely, if the client wants to breach it, the attorney has no say in the matter.

 

It's not an easy question.  Clients accidentally waive the privilege all the time by showing privileged communications to third parties.  But if an attorney does it, he's at least theoretically in trouble.  Attorneys try to "uncreate" the relationship frequently by sending "non-engagement letters" after introductory meetings so as to avoid conflicts of interest later.  Those letters are not entirely effective.

 

One "sine qua non" of the relationship and thus the privilege is if the ostensible client communicates with the attorney for the purpose of obtaining advice, even free advice, with the expectation that the communication is confidential.

 

So, in his desperation to separate himself from Cohen, Hannity speaks out of both sides of his mouth.  Not surprising really.

 

Nor is it surprising that an attorney would err on the side of "there is a relationship" in a context such as this, because to do otherwise and waive an existing privilege could be professionally disastrous (disbarment, sanctions, civil damages).

Edited April 17, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31529]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

To summarize, it's the difference between a dumpster fire and the Great Fire of London.

San Francisco earthquake and fire, imo.

[jimmyjazz 46095]

I've never hired an attorney and only had one hired for me once in an insurance claim case.  Do attorneys counsel their clients about the ease with which they might destroy this privilege?

[Pig Bellmont 8724]

20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

<not even close to an attorney> I would hope it would be far more difficult for a client to blow attorney-client privilege out of the water than it would be for an attorney.  One is expected to know the law, one isn't.  Am I close?

The client owns the privilege and can waive it. And yes, attorneys should talk about privilege/methods of communications/expectations of privacy from the outset. If they don’t, maybe your attorney is a little careless 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

"Real Estate" in the way that the talks with Russians were about "adoptions"

To some men, a piece of ass is a measure of real estate. 

[Loco 3754]

[TwiceHorn 31529]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I've never hired an attorney and only had one hired for me once in an insurance claim case.  Do attorneys counsel their clients about the ease with which they might destroy this privilege?

If you go back and look at any patent search opinions or validity/infringement opinions, they should be marked "Attorney-Client Privileged-Do Not Distribute To Third Parties" or similar and validity/infringement opinions should have an introductory section on what can be done with the opinion to avoid waiving privilege.

[wildcat09 29376]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

Nor is it surprising that an attorney would err on the side of "there is a relationship" in a context such as this, because to do otherwise and waive an existing privilege could be professionally disastrous (disbarment, sanctions, civil damages).

Not that this isn't a good point generally, but I think Cohen has already more than fucked himself professionally. I doubt that's all it is in this case.

[TwiceHorn 31529]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Not that this isn't a good point generally, but I think Cohen has already more than fucked himself professionally. I doubt that's all it is in this case.

No, but even if it weren't some attempt by Cohen to conceal material from the government, I would expect an attorney to be very careful about declaring "I had no a/c relationship with that person/entity, so here's all their shit."

[jimmyjazz 46095]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

If you go back and look at any patent search opinions or validity/infringement opinions, they should be marked "Attorney-Client Privileged-Do Not Distribute To Third Parties" or similar and validity/infringement opinions should have an introductory section on what can be done with the opinion to avoid waiving privilege.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking about patent work.  Good catch.  Anyway, thanks.

[deech 2291]

34 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

<not even close to an attorney> I would hope it would be far more difficult for a client to blow attorney-client privilege out of the water than it would be for an attorney.  One is expected to know the law, one isn't.  Am I close?

It's the client's privilege.  If he wants to stand up and say I am not nor was I ever his attorney.... That's all him. 

[Jive Turkey 12641]

Is there a left wing version of Alex Jones?

Somebody could make a killing on conspiracy theories with all that’s going on.

Maddow spends a lot of time on this, but she’s too scholarly and academic about it. A tinfoil loony could really capitalize on this.  

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

25 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

To some men, a piece of ass is a measure of real estate. 

She’s got huge ... tracts of land!

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Mueller knows what Cohen had for lunch on march 25, 2015. 

So do I, a Trump Tower taco bowl.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

55 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

To summarize, it's the difference between a dumpster fire and the Great Fire of London.

I call it a Trumpster fire

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1610]

33 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

I call it a Trumpster fire

i must wait to spread rep.

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1610]

this is fun. this whole thing is incredible and all we can do is sit here and salivate at the releases because the team of special investigators is one of the tightest run ships probably ever for something like this. sometimes i really miss my old job.

[Pods 7586]

[atomheartbevo 89778]

2 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

Is there a left wing version of Alex Jones?

Somebody could make a killing on conspiracy theories with all that’s going on.

Maddow spends a lot of time on this, but she’s too scholarly and academic about it. A tinfoil loony could really capitalize on this.  

Look at who Bernie’s 2016 followers flock to.  Should give you an idea of the landscape. 

Seemed like there were some during W’s administration, but it is odd that there aren’t any that are easily named.  

[hobbes2702 13054]

25 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Look at who Bernie’s 2016 followers flock to.  Should give you an idea of the landscape. 

Seemed like there were some during W’s administration, but it is odd that there aren’t any that are easily named.  

It’s almost like their are fewer conspiracy theorists on the left... I wonder if it is because their politicians don’t actively cater to that group in order to win votes

[Mojo Hand 4580]

The crazy conspiracy theorists on the left are of the Glenn Beck variety, like Louise Mensch, and she's still small time.  There's nobody that I know of that's on the pizzagate/Sandy Hook hoax level.   It takes years of cynical con-artists to cultivate that kind of following.   Years of right-wing radio has adled many brains. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[David Dennison 18945]

2 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

The crazy conspiracy theorists on the left are of the Glenn Beck variety, like Louise Mensch, and she's still small time.  There's nobody that I know of that's on the pizzagate/Sandy Hook hoax level.   It takes years of cynical con-artists to cultivate that kind of following.   Years of right-wing radio has adled many brains. 

Anti-vaxxers and anti-GMO people come to mind, but they are mainly grass roots and not as centralized as the loons on the right.

[atomheartbevo 89778]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Anti-vaxxers and anti-GMO people come to mind, but they are mainly grass roots and not as centralized as the loons on the right.

And the right has just as many, if not more, anti-vaxxers.  

[triplehorn 2664]

This is peculiar:

Prosecutors Say Cohen Under Investigation, Rebut Privilege Claims

Quote

Documents disclosed in the Southern District of New York show that Michael Cohen, the personal lawyer for President Donald Trump, is the subject of a criminal inquiry into his personal business dealings. He also received a $500,000 "alliance fee" from Squire Patton Boggs.

Manhattan federal prosecutors, who say they are investigating Donald Trump’s personal attorney Michael Cohen for conduct that largely centers on his “personal business dealings,” rebutted on Friday allegations that the documents seized in raids on his home and office at Squire Patton Boggs included thousands of privileged materials.

We know today that Cohen brought in no clients for SPB.  So who paid that $500k and for what ?  SPB? An SPB client?  SPB reportedly has offices in Moscow and Kiev and is one of the firms representing Cambridge Analytica and Gazprom.  Perhaps there's a normal explanation, I'm just failing to see it in the wake of the abrupt dissolution of Cohen's office from the SPB office space in NY.

Edited April 17, 2018 by triplehorn

[Tuco 5077]

There are several possibilities with Hannity and Cohen.  Too many for me to even speculate.

One of my guesses: Cohen is the guy Trump utilizes to handle ugly media stuff. Rod Wheeler claims the debunked Seth Rich story was pushed and reviewed through the White House. If Cohen was the conduit for that review, the communications between Fox and Trump would be in the records. Probably not criminal, but it would certainly point the Riches in the right direction for their lawsuit.

[Brisketexan 105275]

2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

This is peculiar:

Prosecutors Say Cohen Under Investigation, Rebut Privilege Claims

We know today that Cohen brought in no clients for SPB.  So who paid that $500k and for what ?  SPB? An SPB client?  SPB reportedly has offices in Moscow and Kiev and is one of the firms representing Cambridge Analytica and Gazprom.  Perhaps there's a normal explanation, I'm just failing to see it in the wake of the abrupt dissolution of Cohen's office from the SPB office space in NY.

Ummm...that's a really good question.  What in the FUCK did SPB pay him half a million for?  They don't just do that for shits and giggles.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummm...that's a really good question.  What in the FUCK did SPB pay him half a million for?  They don't just do that for shits and giggles.

That's just going market rate, nothing to see there. Just like the fifty dollar rooms for rent. It's all on the up and up. 

[Pig Bellmont 8724]

Cohen’s suggestions for special master came in last night around midnight. All are private practice and none are judges/retired judges. #1 suggestion is a guy who used to work under Rudy Giuliani... maybe not the most neutral option 

[yaqdum 182]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Cohen’s suggestions for special master came in last night around midnight. All are private practice and none are judges/retired judges. #1 suggestion is a guy who used to work under Rudy Giuliani... maybe not the most neutral option 

this is actually a very useful list.  cohen<trump<putin isn't going to list anyone who isn't in putin's back pocket.  these are people who need to be considered in more ways than one.

[bad_teammate 13224]

Jill Stein got 1.2M
Donald Trump got 63M

The American right is much more amenable to control and influence by their lunatic fringe. So much so that the lunatic fringe IS their representative party right now.

[Brisketexan 105275]

2 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Cohen’s suggestions for special master came in last night around midnight. All are private practice and none are judges/retired judges. #1 suggestion is a guy who used to work under Rudy Giuliani... maybe not the most neutral option 

And....THAT is how you get your list tossed in the trash by the judge.  Seriously, she asked for a serious list of competent, objective neutrals.  You gave her a list of your pals and such?  Nope.

[scottsins 1969]

Until there are State charges I don’t know how much he worries. Trump could have already sent him the message that he will be pardoned. 

NSIAP, but the NY AG is closely in the loop with the federal stuff, in case state charges arise.

[Pig Bellmont 8724]

Let’s not forget the judge can still send the review back to SDNY. She’s not decided on using a special master or the process. For example, most appointed masters would only call balls and strikes (i.e. rule on objections, etc)- it would be highly unusual to have the master independently review and make initial privilege calls. 

The government makes its suggestions later this morning 

[Amobie 58]

15 hours ago, Tuco said:

 

One of my guesses: Cohen is the guy Trump utilizes to handle ugly media stuff. Rod Wheeler claims the debunked Seth Rich story was pushed and reviewed through the White House. If Cohen was the conduit for that review, the communications between Fox and Trump would be in the records. Probably not criminal, but it would certainly point the Riches in the right direction for their lawsuit.

 

Prior to joining Trump, Cohen was doing commercial real estate deals in NYC and beat Trump out of a few properties.  Trump felt embarrassed because someone with much less capital than him, scooped up properties he was eyeing.  He was getting paid as if he was a consultant but was classified as legal council so Trump wouldn't look bad.  That's why his legal practice had so few clients.  Trump was paying him to help on commercial real estate deals and save himself from potential embarrassment. 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 hour ago, Amobie said:

Prior to joining Trump, Cohen was doing commercial real estate deals in NYC and beat Trump out of a few properties.  Trump felt embarrassed because someone with much less capital than him, scooped up properties he was eyeing.  He was getting paid as if he was a consultant but was classified as legal council so Trump wouldn't look bad.  That's why his legal practice had so few clients.  Trump was paying him to help on commercial real estate deals and save himself from potential embarrassment. 

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Amobie said:

Prior to joining Trump, Cohen was doing commercial real estate deals in NYC and beat Trump out of a few properties.  Trump felt embarrassed because someone with much less capital than him, scooped up properties he was eyeing.  He was getting paid as if he was a consultant but was classified as legal council so Trump wouldn't look bad.  That's why his legal practice had so few clients.  Trump was paying him to help on commercial real estate deals and save himself from potential embarrassment. 

 

And yet he had to pay Stormy from a home equity line of credit.

[Mdhorn 5984]

1 hour ago, Amobie said:

Prior to joining Trump, Cohen was doing commercial real estate deals in NYC and beat Trump out of a few properties.  Trump felt embarrassed because someone with much less capital than him, scooped up properties he was eyeing.  He was getting paid as if he was a consultant but was classified as legal council so Trump wouldn't look bad.  That's why his legal practice had so few clients.  Trump was paying him to help on commercial real estate deals and save himself from potential embarrassment. 

 

Heard that this was why Cohen was already being investigated separately--shady Russian real estate deals.