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orangecat92

orangecat92 306

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45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And what good reason was there to fire him before the end of the season, with replacement wrapped up?

I don't advocate firing during the regular season, unless there are incredibly bad extenuating circumstances.  For example, 66-3 would have been a good enough circumstance to fire a coach imo. 66-3 means the coach has lost the team.  Back to my earlier years, 55-17 in the third quarter means the coach has lost the team. The score to that one could have been 76-17, but Hayden Fry took his foot off the gas.   

This was different, because while Tom was winning a few games towards the end, the recruiting was allegedly suffering because of Tom.  He should have been fired immediately after the end of the regular season.  The big reason to fire at the time would be to stop the negative recruiting.  Have you read the stories of players in the portal being dissuaded from coming to Texas by Texas players?  I understand this to be true.    CDC had it backwards.  He evidently thought retaining Tom through the bowl game would help recruiting.  Or maybe some other unknown reason.  Who knows? 

jmo, hey like I've said before.  At least this time we didn't wait an additional two years to fire the coach.  Those of us paying attention in Austin in 1984 knew Fred lost the team then.  Our AD diddled and messed around and watched Fred suffer through those last two years, and it finally took a 5-6 losing season to persuade DD to make the move. 

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Fortunate?!? There are 2 sports that matter: Football & Men's basketball. CDC's hires for both have been absolute abortions. 

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orangecat92

orangecat92 306

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1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

Ewers can't sign with anyone until December 2021, bc he's a junior.

which underscores my point even more.  Tom was fucking up the recruiting situation very badly, and was given even more time than he should have been given to continue to mess it up even more.  How many more 5 star recruits were we gonna let Tom screw up while we were waiting?  He was given way too long.  

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Darth Tron

Darth Tron 1123

Posted
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7 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Yeh. Some rumors I am hearing are squaring with a fairly big fuck up on our part. Will post more details as I feel comfortable that those details are 100% confirmed by my source. Damn. Sending mixed messages to a potential hire would be one thing. Three passes. Fuck a duck. 

I look forward to these details.  So I can cry into my whisky.

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dcar00

dcar00 14254

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30 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The entire state is crooked at a level beyond anything other states could dream of, they place huge importance on LSU football (like creating budgetary problems for the rest of their state government importance), and they’re all aligned with helping LSU since it’s the only big school they have.  The cheating opportunities generally and the pressure on instate recruits to stay home and go to LSU are unrivaled.  

they are committed.  they also would ask that you please respect their decision.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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2 hours ago, jinx said:

One of the things that I am optimistic about is the growth that is likely to have come to Sarkisian after falling flat on his face.  There is nothing like outright failure to make you take a step back and look at what works and what doesn't, and where you need to improve yourself.  Herman just got a large dose of that, we will see where it gets him.  Hopefully it built Sark into a better coach.  

Unity implies compromise and understanding.  Alignment implies my way or the highway.  

Exactly why I am hopeful.

Also, having personal experience with recovery from alcoholism, it can really unleash talent and effectiveness.  EQ starts to match up with IQ, you learn not to sweat the small stuff and become able to differentiate the small stuff from the big stuff, and so on and so forth. Obviously, not being boiled as an owl is a big help, but recovery can be so much bigger than that.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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2 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

I don't advocate firing during the regular season, unless there are incredibly bad extenuating circumstances.  For example, 66-3 would have been a good enough circumstance to fire a coach imo. 66-3 means the coach has lost the team.  Back to my earlier years, 55-17 in the third quarter means the coach has lost the team. The score to that one could have been 76-17, but Hayden Fry took his foot off the gas.   

This was different, because while Tom was winning a few games towards the end, the recruiting was allegedly suffering because of Tom.  He should have been fired immediately after the end of the regular season.  The big reason to fire at the time would be to stop the negative recruiting.  Have you read the stories of players in the portal being dissuaded from coming to Texas by Texas players?  I understand this to be true.    CDC had it backwards.  He evidently thought retaining Tom through the bowl game would help recruiting.  Or maybe some other unknown reason.  Who knows? 

jmo, hey like I've said before.  At least this time we didn't wait an additional two years to fire the coach.  Those of us paying attention in Austin in 1984 knew Fred lost the team then.  Our AD diddled and messed around and watched Fred suffer through those last two years, and it finally took a 5-6 losing season to persuade DD to make the move. 

That's rational.  But we all kind of have to guess what's going on in the locker room and in player's minds.  I assume that the reports of players negative recruiting right in the locker room are accurate (wtf is that?), but who knows what an earlier firing might have caused?

As I have said here or elsewhere, reasonable minds can differ on whether to fire midseason or after the season.  I don't think there's a clear, obvious, or right answer, necessarily.  I cringe at the people who say he should have been fired immediately after ISU as if any other course of action was flat wrong and CDC an idiot to do anything else.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49244

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3 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

Would add to this, the recruiting was allegedly already down the tubes, with the Ewers situation, so I don’t think there was any reason to wait until after signing day.  If there had been decommits,, guess what there is the portal, so there is the makeup opportunity.  There was no reason to keep Tom one minute past the last regular season game.  

Put another way.  When was the last time there was anybody of any consequence in Tom’s corner?  I would hazard a guess it was the day of the OU game, before the eyes incident.  

And CDC let the dead man walking continue to walk all of the way through the bowl game.  

This AD gets an F for that portion of the project.  He knew what was coming, what had to be done, and failed to execute the correct manuever in a timely manner.  If I were on the board, I would say no more extensions or raises for CDC unless/until all three big men’s sports are top ten, and we feel good about the leadership of the three sports.  

 

Disagree...

TEXAS #17 Recruiting Class  > Auburn's #48 Recruiting Class

Auburn fired Gus early and 2021 Recruiting Class got destroyed

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4992

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1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Disagree...

TEXAS #17 Recruiting Class  > Auburn's #48 Recruiting Class

Auburn fired Gus early and 2021 Recruiting Class got destroyed

Exactly, no one was going to portal to us when we don’t have a head coach, and some of our recruits may not have signed without Herman still in his position.  None of this even mentions the buyout money we might have saved by waiting until 2021, nor the fiasco that we’d have seen surrounding our coaching search had the job been open for a month+ (think Auburn on HGH, or what happened after we canned FUPM).

CDC made the smart move in my book.  I get that not everyone may agree but either way it was NOT obvious that Herman should be fired mid season.

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8 hours ago, idigTexas said:

I did not hire Sarkisian, and I cannot point to a bunch of qualifications that you are going to find convincing.  You see his P5 head coaching experience as an indication of his ceiling, and attribute his successes as an OC at multiple P5 schools as purely circumstantial.  I'm more of a glass is half full kind of guy.  Regardless, my point wasn't to prop up Sarkisian's credentials in an effort to convince you that he was an obvious take.  It was to point out that there wasn't an obvious take, and that under those circumstances, I'm relatively optimistic with the results. 

Sarkisian knows the expectations and believes he is up to the task.  The committee that hired him believes he is up to the task.  That is enough for me to give him a chance to prove it.

 

 

What makes you think this committee is any better than the committee that hired Charlie Strong, the worst coach in UT history, or David McWilliams, neither of whom were fit to be a head coach?

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7 hours ago, Tex-19 said:

One impressive thing about this process was that any leaks were locked down air tight, at least post Urban. No one knew the timing of Tom's firing (some 9.95ers still thought he might stay) and no one really saw Sark coming either. Heck, BK was seen as the leading candidate at the time. CDC and the others had all that info sealed shut.

Well the Urban bit was pathetic.  You can't give them credit for keeping quiet for two weeks after leaking like a sieve all season.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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10 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Exactly, no one was going to portal to us when we don’t have a head coach, and some of our recruits may not have signed without Herman still in his position.  None of this even mentions the buyout money we might have saved by waiting until 2021, nor the fiasco that we’d have seen surrounding our coaching search had the job been open for a month+ (think Auburn on HGH, or what happened after we canned FUPM).

CDC made the smart move in my book.  I get that not everyone may agree but either way it was NOT obvious that Herman should be fired mid season.

Good points.

We never seem to know what recruits and even kids on the team are going to do in response to any given stimulus.  

But it seems to me that the uncertainty surrounding a still-employed coach is less, certainly less public, than a program with an interim coach.

 

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4 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

I don't advocate firing during the regular season, unless there are incredibly bad extenuating circumstances.  For example, 66-3 would have been a good enough circumstance to fire a coach imo. 66-3 means the coach has lost the team.  Back to my earlier years, 55-17 in the third quarter means the coach has lost the team. The score to that one could have been 76-17, but Hayden Fry took his foot off the gas.   

This was different, because while Tom was winning a few games towards the end, the recruiting was allegedly suffering because of Tom.  He should have been fired immediately after the end of the regular season.  The big reason to fire at the time would be to stop the negative recruiting.  Have you read the stories of players in the portal being dissuaded from coming to Texas by Texas players?  I understand this to be true.    CDC had it backwards.  He evidently thought retaining Tom through the bowl game would help recruiting.  Or maybe some other unknown reason.  Who knows? 

jmo, hey like I've said before.  At least this time we didn't wait an additional two years to fire the coach.  Those of us paying attention in Austin in 1984 knew Fred lost the team then.  Our AD diddled and messed around and watched Fred suffer through those last two years, and it finally took a 5-6 losing season to persuade DD to make the move. 

With the early signing day you could lose your entire class.

Look at the mess Tom inherited because Charlie was such a lazy recruiter.  He had what, 6 committs?  We had something like a #31 class that year.  This is ranked #17.  Its not our standard, but its not bad.

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On 1/3/2021 at 5:31 PM, ztejas said:

Washington is not a powerhouse. Stop. They've never had more than* 3 straight 10 win seasons in their 100+ year history. They have one legit national title (which isn't consensus) and claim an absolute horseshit title from 1960 where they finished 6th in the AP and 5th in the Coaches. 

They are a respectable football program. I wouldn't say it's even in the top 20 of easiest places to win at. Certainly behind SC and Oregon within their own conference - maybe on equal footing with Utah.

There are 18 programs that have all the AP national championships since 1985.  When you throw in Oregon and Georgia, you have 20 schools that have 95 of the 105 top 3 finishes.  Every one of them has at least 2.  Only TCU outside that group has 2.  These 20 schools have 148 of the 175 top 5 finishes.  All have at least 4.  Nobody else has more than 2.  Washington is part of that 20.  Now probably they are in the bottom 5 of that top 20, but they are part of the elite at the top.

You can go all the way back to 1968 when that group has 50 of the 52 MNCs and those 20 each have at least 5 top 5 finishes.  Nobody else has more than 3 top 5.  And all but Tennessee have at least 3 top 3.  Outside that group, only Pitt and TCU have 2 top 3.

So maybe your definition of "powerhouse" is a little more strict than mine, but UW is one of the top programs in the country and a place where you can win big.  There are only 20 of those.

 

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ztejas

ztejas 43467

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6 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

I really like this post...don’t forget Saban  won a NC at LSU as well.  What is it about LSU? Do the athletes skip all academics, only do football?  

LSU has a rabid football culture, basically zero academic standards (and that's barely an exaggeration) and geographically are in an absolutely perfect spot for recruiting talent. You could get hired at LSU without a roster in place, get a bus, drive a few hours in every direction - picking up 50 random kids along the way that were either poorly scouted or never scouted or couldn't make grades somewhere else - and you'd wind up with about as much talent as half of the teams playing in the FBS. That's kind of a joke and it kind of isn't.

 

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justhookit

justhookit 4191

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6 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

I don't advocate firing during the regular season, unless there are incredibly bad extenuating circumstances.  For example, 66-3 would have been a good enough circumstance to fire a coach imo. 66-3 means the coach has lost the team.  Back to my earlier years, 55-17 in the third quarter means the coach has lost the team. The score to that one could have been 76-17, but Hayden Fry took his foot off the gas.   

This was different, because while Tom was winning a few games towards the end, the recruiting was allegedly suffering because of Tom.  He should have been fired immediately after the end of the regular season.  The big reason to fire at the time would be to stop the negative recruiting.  Have you read the stories of players in the portal being dissuaded from coming to Texas by Texas players?  I understand this to be true.    CDC had it backwards.  He evidently thought retaining Tom through the bowl game would help recruiting.  Or maybe some other unknown reason.  Who knows? 

jmo, hey like I've said before.  At least this time we didn't wait an additional two years to fire the coach.  Those of us paying attention in Austin in 1984 knew Fred lost the team then.  Our AD diddled and messed around and watched Fred suffer through those last two years, and it finally took a 5-6 losing season to persuade DD to make the move. 

Who exactly do you think we lost by waiting until we did? Firing Herman at the end of the regular season would have completely blown the class up if we didn’t have a hire in place. And we didn’t.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4933

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40 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Regardless of what people may think of Cowherd...

 

Felt better about Sark until he put Sumlin #2 and ahead of Sark which means he has no clue. 

I have yet to figure out how we ended up with Sark which just does not strike me as an eventual home run. Maybe he was the first to say yes far down the list. Maybe he was a comfort hire. CDC said he has known him for a long time and looked at him with puppy eyes when he was at Arizona. Either way at some point the kool-aid will start to flow since there is no place to go but to jump onboard.

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idigTexas

idigTexas 2289

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8 hours ago, bullet said:

What makes you think this committee is any better than the committee that hired Charlie Strong, the worst coach in UT history, or David McWilliams, neither of whom were fit to be a head coach?

The easy and obvious answer is CDC's body of work.  Why do people continue to point to the faults of past administrations when evaluating the current one?  A reminder to all, CDC has been at Texas for just over 3 years, not 5, not 10, not 25, not 40.  He did not hire McWIlliams, or Strong, or even Herman.  He was here when Herman got an extension, though even if you fault him entirely for that one, it obviously did not prevent Herman from being fired once a suitable replacement had been secured. 

CDC is not infallible, but so far, he has shown enough to me to get the benefit of the doubt.  Obviously some of you live in a tougher room.    

 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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1 hour ago, idigTexas said:

Why do people continue to point to the faults of past administrations when evaluating the current one?

because CDC does not have the power or ability to magically change overnight the culture of grabass mediocrity that led to those hirings. Just because CDC wasn't here to hire Charlie Strong doesn't mean we're now immune to terrible decisions driven by significant insiders. Our football program has a long track record of hiring conveniently and rewarding mediocrity, even under CDC (the extension). It will take a long time where we're clearly operating with the same cutthroat mentality of the programs we watch in the CFB every year before a lot of us are willing to accept that "it's all better now".

I agree that CDC firing Herman is a huge feather in his cap, assuming he had much to do with the decision. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49244

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1938-2021: UT donor, oil magnate Jim Bob Moffett has died 

He died Friday in Austin of complications from COVID-19. He was 82.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/1938-2021-ut-donor-oil-magnate-jim-bob-moffett-has-died/ar-BB1cC6ei

"Jim Bob was a Texas legend. He was very instrumental in the success of our athletic department,” Chris Del Conte, UT’s athletic director, told the American-Statesman on Saturday. “He was one of the original wildcats. Just a legendary Texas oilman. He was bigger than life. He'll be sorely missed."

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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On 1/14/2021 at 9:51 AM, LTtxfan said:

 

It looks like maybe CDC will have us in the running for the Directors Cup again.

Not sure if I could muster a bunch of fucks about that, but we haven't been in the running in a decade or so, whereas we were pretty perennial top 2/5 in the aughts.

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SDG

SDG 3319

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Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

It looks like maybe CDC will have us in the running for the Directors Cup again.

Not sure if I could muster a bunch of fucks about that, but we haven't been in the running in a decade or so, whereas we were pretty perennial top 2/5 in the aughts.

Given our limited volume of varsity sports the directors cup is almost out of reach.   That's why schools like Stanford always win it.   

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SDG

SDG 3319

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10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Stanford always wins it for that reason and I don't think any school has even close to the number of sports.

Hence "in the running."  Somewhat to my surprise, we have stayed in the top 10, with a couple of top fives since CDC came along.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors'_Cup

Thx for the link.  It's interesting that we have 20 top 10 finishes with so few varsity sports.  Everyone else on that list has something like 2x the number of sports.   

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SimkinsMan

SimkinsMan 4391

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Posted

Hmmm ... a bit more insight ... maybe ... on the Stoops to Texas imbroglio from TFB. It does not reflect well on our AD.

 

Quote

***As I mentioned in the comments below, not sure how accurate but per a source very close to the program, this move was actually blocked.

***Also, I should let you all know that Del Conte and Mike Stoops are very close and have been for a while. So, I could see this being a situation where the AD gave Sark the green light but the phone lines went ballistic last night and into this morning.

 

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