F-35: 428 billion dollar lemon ... guns don't shoot straight etc....

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20344]

Fucking amazing and fucking infuriating:

873 software flaws, "unacceptable"  accuracy in hitting ground targets, gun mounted in a housing that's "cracking," another year of testing needed, cybersecurity vulnerabilities  etc...

 

Meanwhile, Congress continues to accelerate purchasing.  

"By late September, 490 F-35s had been delivered and will require extensive retrofitting. The testing office said those planes were equipped with six different versions of software, with another on the way by the time that about 1,000 planes will be in the hands of the U.S. and foreign militaries."


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-30/f-35-s-gun-that-can-t-shoot-straight-adds-to-its-roster-of-flaws

[David Dennison 18656]

It's about jobs and money in congressional districts. 

Whether it works is completely beside the point.

[Dark Horse 2263]

The Shitbird?

[washparkhorn 9935]

Nothing to see here . . . 

U.S. And U.K. F-35 Jets Include 'Core' Circuit Boards From Chinese-Owned Company 

"We are not aware of any other Chinese-owned F-35 suppliers at this time," Lockheed Martin said after the U.K.'s Sky News reported that "a Chinese-owned company is making circuit boards for the top-secret next-generation F-35 warplanes flown by Britain and the United States." British MP Bob Seely, who sits on both the Foreign Affairs and Arms Export Controls Committees described the news as "breath-taking," warning that "it's not a question of is this bad, but how bad is it?" This was echoed by Sir Gerald Howarth, a former U.K. defense minister, who warned that "we have been completely and utterly naive about the role of China and it is only now that people are beginning to wake up."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/15/chinese-owned-company-supplies-electronics-on-u-s-and-u-k-f-35-fighter-jets/#10deccc725c0

 

[elfenix 34171]

 

[washparkhorn 9935]

Thanks elfenix . . . refraining from getting political on the Daily Texan - and this is a political boondoggle . . . is difficult.

This is a failure by both political parties. The suhitbirds who pushed this shitbird do not deserve their office. 

[Gil Bang 25898]

 

[Parliament 14134]

So we're just gonna give them 14 of the best stealth fighters there are? I assume we're gonna guard them 24/7 to keep the Russians and Chinese from getting ahold of one and reverse engineering it

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

6 minutes ago, Parliament said:

So we're just gonna give them 14 of the best stealth fighters there are? I assume we're gonna guard them 24/7 to keep the Russians and Chinese from getting ahold of one and reverse engineering it

It's the other way around. The US is buying the F-35s that were produced for Turkey. 

[ztejas 43265]

29 minutes ago, Parliament said:

the best stealth fighters there are?

I mean... thread title.

[Nivek 16859]

So who is going to play Kelsey Grammar’s character in the Pentagon Files 2: shits all borked.

[Continental Op 3934]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison F-35? 

[Anastasis 23395]

Hey what's $125MM a pop between frienemies. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Anastasis

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Its okay. Lockheed is gonna trickle down 2 or 3 dollars per million to the rest of us.  Maybe they will hire an unemployed restaurant worker or two.  Corporate welfare is definitely working. 

[Anastasis 23395]

10 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Its okay. Lockheed is gonna trickle down 2 or 3 dollars per million to the rest of us.  Maybe they will hire an unemployed restaurant worker or two.  Corporate welfare is definitely working. 

Remember when some of the posters on this board were bemoaning Trump's impact on LMT and BA and other MIC stock?  Pepperidge Farm remembers. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Remember when some of the posters on this board were bemoaning Trump's impact on LMT and BA and other MIC stock?  Pepperidge Farm remembers. 

Don't remember anyone saying that. Trump is the MIC's wet dream. He will give them all the money of a Reagan-Bush Republican without any need for them to actually hit benchmarks or deliver a working product.

That being said, Boeing is getting plowed because they tried to pull the same shit in the civilian aircraft market, and it predated Trump. 

We should just steal the F35I schematics.  They aren't unhappy with the airframe. Israel has actual national security in mind while we are more concerned with pork. 

 

[Anastasis 23395]

11 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Israel has actual national security in mind while we are more concerned with pork.

And even better when we can find a way to applaud the intersection of both...

[Bullneck 18987]

On 1/30/2020 at 5:20 PM, Dark Horse said:

The Shitbird?

Parliament started this thread with that title on TOS.  I guess not much has changed.

(elfenix beat me to it . . . by 7 months)

Edited July 21, 2020 by Bullneck

[gsoda3 3236]

2 hours ago, Parliament said:

So we're just gonna give them 14 of the best stealth fighters there are? I assume we're gonna guard them 24/7 to keep the Russians and Chinese from getting ahold of one and reverse engineering it

they were never delivered, they're all still stateside.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

25 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

And even better when we can find a way to applaud the intersection of both...

Well, that intersection isn't occurring here so nothing to applaud.  Its a straight up pork failure.  Even though Israel will absolutely make it work for themselves, we won't look to them for a fix.  Instead, we'll funnel another few billion dollars toward our own "fix."  I'm sure someone will applaud it when it happens.

I find it better to applaud events like when Boeing threw a hissy fit about a 300 million dollar loan and 1 billion dollar investment that Canada made to "subsidize" Bombardier.  Meanwhile, Boeing takes in 22 billion a year from the DoD alone in a bad year.

If anything, Bombardier deserved an actual subsidy in order to be able to compete in a market with 2 giants that are mostly state funded.  At least Quebec got an ownership stake for their investment.  Euro nations have an ownership stake in Airbus. 

In the US, companies like Boeing just take.  They never give back.  We privatize profit, and subsidize loss.  I don't really fault them for taking advantage of that fact.  We are at fault.  If Nintendo handed me a game system that didn't work, I'd send that shit back and get my money back.  They, like Lockheed and Boeing, are a private company.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[Anastasis 23395]

7 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Well, that intersection isn't occurring here so nothing to applaud. 

No intersection between Israeli "national security", American funding of their military industrial complex, and American pork barrel? 

 

Not sure if serious?

[elfenix 34171]

turns out israel loves american pork

[FondrenRoad 4378]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No intersection between Israeli "national security", American funding of their military industrial complex, and American pork barrel? 

 

Not sure if serious?

So now its Israel national security we care about?  Sure, Israel will happily eat our pork.  No argument there.  Saudi Arabia eats it too.  Even though pork isn't kosher or halal.  Why wouldn't they?  We give shit away for free.  And maybe we are interested in Israeli national security.  But we are less interested in our own national security.  If we were, Israel wouldn't need to develop new avionics for our privately made, entirely US public funded, airplanes.  And also, if Israel's avionics were better, which they seem to be, we should use them ourselves if we really gave a shit about national security.

The real problem with our "national security" is that we've only really been insecure one time since 1812 and that is when we were fighting ourselves.  We don't really know what national security actually means.  We think its awesome to pay an exorbitant amount for a fighter jet. And it looks cool when its bombing overmatched warlords who still use 70s era Soviet weapons.  Meanwhile China and Russia probably already know how to take down our F-35.  That's why Israel wants their own variant which they won't share with us.

[Anastasis 23395]

4 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

So now its Israel national security we care about? 

I think you are just trying to find a way to disagree about something we fundamentally agree about. 

[Continental Op 3934]

32 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No intersection between Israeli "national security", American funding of their military industrial complex, and American pork barrel? 

 

Not sure if serious?

Well the good news is that as part of the change order we're buying almost twice as many!

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, Anastasis said:

I think you are just trying to find a way to disagree about something we fundamentally agree about. 

Old habits die hard.

[Anastasis 23395]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

Old habits die hard.

[Nivek 16859]

That's why Israel wants their own variant which they won't share with us.

the president shared intelligence that compromised their people. They have zero reason to trust us.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

11 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

That's why Israel wants their own variant which they won't share with us.

the president shared intelligence that compromised their people. They have zero reason to trust us.

I don't disagree with that take either.  I understand Israel's position completely.  Its our position that makes no sense.

[Parliament 14134]

It's the other way around. The US is buying the F-35s that were produced for Turkey. 

OK. I had it all mixed up. Regardless, I think the Air Force variant is a fine plane. Expensive, but that's the nature of stealth.

[hpslugga 4044]

9 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Don't remember anyone saying that. Trump is the MIC's wet dream. He will give them all the money of a Reagan-Bush Republican without any need for them to actually hit benchmarks or deliver a working product.

That being said, Boeing is getting plowed because they tried to pull the same shit in the civilian aircraft market, and it predated Trump. 

We should just steal the F35I schematics.  They aren't unhappy with the airframe. Israel has actual national security in mind while we are more concerned with pork. 

 

They do?

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

8 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

The real problem with our "national security" is that we've only really been insecure one time since 1812 and that is when we were fighting ourselves. 

Not sure if serious:

 

[ztejas 43265]

8 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

The real problem with our "national security" is that we've only really been insecure one time since 1812 and that is when we were fighting ourselves.  We don't really know what national security actually means.  We think its awesome to pay an exorbitant amount for a fighter jet. And it looks cool when its bombing overmatched warlords who still use 70s era Soviet weapons.  Meanwhile China and Russia probably already know how to take down our F-35.  That's why Israel wants their own variant which they won't share with us.

Yeah. National Security in 2020 is basically how secure is your data. Add a handful of aircraft carriers, some intelligence, some black ops capability - what else do you really need? Nuclear deterrent doesn't even scare anyone anymore. All those ICBMs will rust away under a tarp before anyone fires them.

[Bateshorn 9899]

25 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Not sure if serious:

 

I don’t know if folks have been paying attention, but we are 1-3-1 in major conflicts since the end of WW2.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Korea being the push? 

[hpslugga 4044]

9 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I don’t know if folks have been paying attention, but we are 1-3-1 in major conflicts since the end of WW2.

I don't agree with the numbers, but the point that should have been made was that WWII was the last time we were actually defending ourselves, and Fudge Nuggets actually sold it a bit short. Yeah the Japanese did attack Pearl Harbor, but Germany also declared full on war against us just days later.

Since then, we've never been in a position to enter into a war where our national security was at stake. 9/11 was a first strike by a rogue cell of the wahhabist movement (and it was actually condemned by large parts of same), not an attack by a foreign military. Every "war" we've gotten ourselves into since 1945 has been based on self-serving horseshit that our State Department was always able to sell to the public under some sort of guise. 

[ztejas 43265]

Our security was definitely threatened during the Cold War. We were at the precipice of nuclear war multiple times over a period of roughly 40 years following WW2. There were many sleepless nights during that time.

[hpslugga 4044]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Our security was definitely threatened during the Cold War. We were at the precipice of nuclear war multiple times over a period of roughly 40 years following WW2. There were many sleepless nights during that time.

We also contributed quite a bit to the threat. So yeah it's easy to, for example, get all huffy about Soviet submarines in Cuba, but does that happen without Jupiter missiles in Turkey? Point being, any Russian schmuck could say the exact same sentence that you began with and he'd be every bit as correct as you are. But the way you put it out there (and I'm sure the Russian schmuck would too) makes it seem as if the US (or in the schmuck's case, the USSR) was some sort of victim in the Cold War. We (they) weren't. 

[Tuco 5076]

Nuclear deterrent doesn't even scare anyone anymore. All those ICBMs will rust away under a tarp before anyone fires them.

No one gets paid that way. We will continue to devote a significant part of our federal budget updating our nuke capabilities. We are buying a new Columbia class sub every two years to make sure those pesky jihadists can’t see it when we park a nuke off the coast of Afghanistan.

[ztejas 43265]

11 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

We also contributed quite a bit to the threat. So yeah it's easy to, for example, get all huffy about Soviet submarines in Cuba, but does that happen without Jupiter missiles in Turkey? Point being, any Russian schmuck could say the exact same sentence that you began with and he'd be every bit as correct as you are. But the way you put it out there (and I'm sure the Russian schmuck would too) makes it seem as if the US (or in the schmuck's case, the USSR) was some sort of victim in the Cold War. We (they) weren't. 

I mean I just said it was threatened - but yes it takes two to tango. 

[Anastasis 23395]

 

[Anastasis 23395]

 

[InkaUtexas 25517]

13 hours ago, Tuco said:

No one gets paid that way. We will continue to devote a significant part of our federal budget updating our nuke capabilities. We are buying a new Columbia class sub every two years to make sure those pesky jihadists can’t see it when we park a nuke off the coast of Afghanistan.

Was sitting at a bar at the Nato HQ in Kabul and standing behind me was a US Navy officer with his Submariner creds. I had to ask him what I was doing in Afghanistan, hunting Talib Subs? I had put down a few beers with a group of Norwegians and gave zero fucks. He got a bit pissed at me. I asked him really Sir, what are you doing? He smiled, said it was a sweet NATO advisory gig and he was able to get combat time. I bought him a beer.