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Armybrat

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Planet Houston
Planet Houston

It’s a fucking disaster for any Brits living in EU countries. I feel horribly for them. Most of the retirees living on their pension are having to move back to the U.K. because all of a sudden their E

Armybrat
Armybrat

....on their first day of emancipation from the EU. I just drank a toast of Pusser’s Rum (a gift from a Brit friend) in their honor. 🇬🇧

clapclapclap
clapclapclap

"Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!" Apparently not.  The card will continue to work for this year while negotiations continue for future years.  And if for some reason they don't reach an agreement, th

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 11000

Posted
Posted
On 2/2/2020 at 9:03 AM, Chopper said:

Putin & Farage: "We are british nationalists. Our british values and traditions were co-opted by an evil foreign empire, the European Union, but that will now terminate. Also we want to give a huge thank you to Putin and Russia for their tremendous help in achieving this great Brexit. Thankfully we're not under the EU health and safety regulation any longer. And we will have a trade agreement with the EU very soon to keep our economy flowing. Please, fellow patriots, pay no attention when we accept the very same health and safety regulations that we've been complaining about for they will allow us to continue trade with Europe."

Four years ago the far right thanks to a huge assist from Russia was able to whip up anti-EU sentiment and the torys forced the most simplistic vote possible, a way for the British people to express dissatisfaction with the failings of their own government without actually blaming their own government. The whole purpose of which was to help Russia weaken a cohesive EU. Well done, chaps!

They had a powerful role within the EU, for a variety of cultural and historical reasons, particularly because they were the main political and corporate link between the EU and the US . Now, pffffft. They're nothing, they have little to offer the world, and will be even more irrelevant when Scotland and N. Ireland figure out how to divorce themselves from the so-called empire.

so you're saying it's the russians.... at the same time they were sabotaging hillary, they were also fomenting brexit dissent.  just confirming your position.

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

so you're saying it's the russians.... at the same time they were sabotaging hillary, they were also fomenting brexit dissent.  just confirming your position.

I don't think it's the only reason and I've stated plenty of other reasons why brits voted for it 4 years ago, and barely did so. The russians certainly illegally helped fund the pro-Brexit side. There is no doubt about it. Both the US Senate , Republican led, and Boris Johnson's own government investigated. The US Senate released a report on it, concluding affirmatively. Boris deep-sixed the british report and nobody was allowed to see it before the most recent election. But, hey, I'm sure there was nothing to see there.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2140

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I don't think it's the only reason and I've stated plenty of other reasons why brits voted for it 4 years ago, and barely did so. The russians certainly illegally helped fund the pro-Brexit side. There is no doubt about it. Both the US Senate , Republican led, and Boris Johnson's own government investigated. The US Senate released a report on it, concluding affirmatively. Boris deep-sixed the british report and nobody was allowed to see it before the most recent election. But, hey, I'm sure there was nothing to see there.

Any source?

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Any source?

There are plenty. Jesus you people some of you act like this is a secret or made up.

https://time.com/5717670/uk-russian-interference-brexit-delayed/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/25/russia-interference-2016-election-1435436

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/no-10-blocks-russia-eu-referendum-report-until-after-election

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/10/russian-influence-brexit-vote-detailed-us-senate-report

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FinalRR.pdf

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/publication-of-report-into-russian-interference-in-eu-referendum-blocked-until-after-election/04/11/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50366956

edit and this today https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-bankrolled-brexit-boasted-of-wikileaks-backchannel

 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2140

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Chopper said:

There are plenty. Jesus you people some of you act like this is a secret or made up.

https://time.com/5717670/uk-russian-interference-brexit-delayed/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/25/russia-interference-2016-election-1435436

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/no-10-blocks-russia-eu-referendum-report-until-after-election

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/10/russian-influence-brexit-vote-detailed-us-senate-report

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FinalRR.pdf

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/publication-of-report-into-russian-interference-in-eu-referendum-blocked-until-after-election/04/11/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50366956

edit and this today https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-bankrolled-brexit-boasted-of-wikileaks-backchannel

 

That last one is behind a paywall.

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

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So this Jacob Rees Mogg slog said today it would give it 50 years to see if Brexit was an economic advantage for England. Mogg was one of the leaders of the pro-Leave party.

Quote

A leading Brexiteer has suggested it could take 50 years to judge whether Brexit has been an economic success amid fears quitting the European Union will lead to a downturn.

The influential Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, who chairs the European Research Group of backbench Tories, was pressed by Krishnan Guru-Murthy of Channel 4 News about whether he would quit if the “economy does take a hit next year” when Brexit happens.

 

Rees-Mogg insisted the full impact will not be known for “years to come” as he hailed leaving the EU as the “greatest opportunity, economically, for this country”.

The Somerset MP suggested the broadcaster was asking a “simple” question about economic success or failure based on a “complex” set of circumstances, adding:

Rees-Mogg: “We will know at some point, of course we will. But it’s a question of timescale.”

Guru-Murthy: “So how long have you got?”

Rees-Mogg: “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t.”

Guru-Murthy: “Of course not, but I mean we’ll have an indication. We’ll know if there’s been chaos, we’ll know if there have been job losses.”

Rees-Mogg: “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

 

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

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Posted
2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

That last one is behind a paywall.

Hmm it wasn't for me. Probably a privacy protection thing on your browser. Here's a cut and paste, I did a quick and dirty job on re-formatting

Quote
Leak: Man Who Bankrolled Brexit Boasted of WikiLeaks Backchannel

Hacked Twitter messages raise legal questions over Cambridge Analytica, undeclared foreign lobbying, and links between Julian Assange and the Brexit and Trump campaign teams.

 
Update The messages hacked from Farage’s biggest financial backer, Arron Banks, also raise legal questions over the involvement of Cambridge Analytica in the Brexit referendum, undeclared lobbying efforts in the U.S. on behalf of a foreign power, and a breach of data-protection law by pro-Brexit campaigners.

Banks also joked about being a “full agent” of the Russian state a couple of weeks after Trump was elected president.

Brexit campaigners and Trump staffers became close in 2016 as the two upstart campaigns shocked mainstream politicians and won unexpected victories at the ballot box.

The Brexit Party leader, who previously led the anti-European Union UK Independence Party (UKIP), later claimed he was only there to set up an interview with Assange for a British radio network. According to the hacked Twitter messages, which have been posted online by New York-based website Cryptome, Banks claimed his colleague emerged from the meeting in March 2017 confident that a new WikiLeaks data dump was on the horizon.

The day after the meeting, Banks sent a private Twitter message to a friend. “I had a drink with nigel,” he wrote. “He had an interesting time with wiki leaks.”

On the same day, Banks wrote to a Guardian columnist: “You will have plenty of new material soon ! Wiki leaks specialise.”

Farage has previously denied to The Daily Beast the allegation that he provided data to WikiLeaks, which published damaging messages hacked from Hillary Clinton’s private email account during the 2016 presidential election. A spokesperson for Farage did not respond to a request for comment for this report.

Glenn Simpson, whose company, Fusion GPS, came to prominence after the controversial Steele dossier on Trump’s alleged relationship with Russia, told the House Intel committee he had been informed that Farage delivered material to the embassy via a thumb drive.

 
“Nigel and Donald love each other ... The media don’t really get how deep the links go.”

“Nigel Farage and Arron Banks had a number of trips to the U.S.… there’s been a misrepresentation of the length of that relationship and the extent of it,” Simpson told the committee. “There was a somewhat unacknowledged relationship between the Trump people and the UKIP people and that the path to WikiLeaks ran through that.”

It turns out Banks has been making the same point about the depth of the relationship with Team Trump in his private Twitter messages for years.

Related in World

RTS309B1_xbfwze“Nigel and Donald love each other,” he wrote in one message soon after the November 2016 election. “The media don’t really get how deep the links go.

“We are in daily contact with the Trump campaign—Brexit playbook!” he wrote to another in the days before the vote.

Britain finally left the European Union on Friday—the same day the Senate voted to block new witnesses in Trump’s impeachment inquiry, setting the wheels in motion for his all-but-certain acquittal. 

HACKED

Banks’ social-media account was compromised in November 2019, and a link to download the hacked messages was posted on his Twitter account, but the contents were not reported in the U.K. media after a series of threatening messages from Banks’ lawyers and his spokesman Andy Wigmore, who said he would “come after” anyone who downloaded the data. Wigmore also accused Twitter of breaching European Union data-protection rules.

To anyone who has downloaded @Arron_banks hacked twitter account @carolecadwalla - under the Computer Missuse Act we can and will come after you legally. #JustSaying @kingsleynapley @metpoliceuk @Twitter

— Andy Wigmore (@andywigmore) November 19, 2019

Legal threats were issued to the British media and a number of sites that tried to publish messages from a section of the leak were shut down. Cryptome has published the messages in full, including previously undisclosed group messages.

“We won’t comment on Twitter hacked messages. It’s become clear that fabricated messages have been inserted into the batch,” Banks told The Daily Beast in an email. “The whole world has had a go with this wild conspiracy theories… Good try though.”

Fabricated messages did go viral on Twitter on the day of the leak, but The Daily Beast accessed—via Cryptome—the original JSON file, which is a common format for transmitting data in web applications. 

John Young, who runs the anti-secrecy website, explained that the files had been provided anonymously and said no lawyers from the U.K. had tried to force Cryptome to take the messages down from the site, which is protected by U.S. freedom of speech laws. “Providing information banned elsewhere is the primary purpose of our website (since 1996). Much good material has come from nations with limitations on publication,” he told The Daily Beast in an email. “It would be best for more countries to provide this service to citizenry, especially now that authoritarian regimes are increasing in U.S. and globally.”

TRUMP TOWER

The leak includes messages in which Banks says Leave.EU used the disgraced Cambridge Analytica during the Brexit campaign, a claim campaign officials now deny and did not declare in official election filings. He says former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon—a former vice president of the controversial political consultancy—personally demanded payment during a visit to Trump Tower in November 2016.

In a conversation with former UKIP spokesman Gawain Towler, Banks wrote, “Steve Bannon actually chased us at trump tower and we said duck off.”

“Bannon was shilling for CA,” Towler wrote. “oh how codswallop would love that.”

“Indeed he was,” Banks replied.

“Codswallop” is the derogatory nickname the self-proclaimed Bad Boys of Brexit have given to Carole Cadwalladr, the British journalist who has won numerous awards for her work exposing Cambridge Analytica and its links to Brexit and the Trump campaign. She was a finalist for the 2019 Pulitzer Prize for her part in uncovering Cambridge Analytica’s use of Facebook data stolen from 50 million people and used in Trump’s 2016 campaign.

Cambridge Analytica was shut down in 2018 after Cadwalladr’s reporting and after the CEO, Alexander Nix, was caught on camera offering an undercover reporter an extraordinary package of election black ops. The Daily Beast previously reported Nix had reached out to Assange to try to get hold of Hillary Clinton’s stolen emails during the Trump campaign.

Banks is currently suing Cadwalladr for libel after she alleged that he had lied about his contacts with the Russian state.

“Bannon was shilling for CA ... oh how codswallop would love that.”

“Carole has to provide her defence shortly and will be going down in flames!” Banks told The Daily Beast. “I understand we get Carole’s defence Monday, which should be an interesting read—as Trump would say… Very Fake news!” 

Banks has periodically enjoyed playing up his links to Russia, and in one jocular leaked Twitter message he even claimed to be a “full agent.”

Britain’s National Crime Agency (NCA) launched an investigation into Banks’ funding of Leave.EU after claims that money may have been funneled to him from Russia. The NCA found no evidence that Banks or his companies had received funding from third parties. 

In a leaked Twitter message written during the investigation, Wigmore expressed confidence that the NCA would find in their favor. “You forget that throughout the investigation into us we were privy to who said what etc and why… the NCA were very willing to cooperate with us and gave us everything we needed to know.”

CHANGING STORY

The extent to which Cambridge Analytica worked on the Brexit campaign has been hotly contested. Banks’ organization Leave.EU did not declare any expenditure on the data campaigners, or any in-kind donations that would still have to be declared to Britain’s Electoral Commission, which enforces much stricter election laws and spending limits than the U.S.

When Banks and Wigmore gave evidence to a parliamentary select committee in June 2018, it was pointed out to them that they had at least three stated positions on the work done by Cambridge Analytica.

We then move on with the relationship with Cambridge Analytica. Again, I think this is you, Mr Wigmore, “Cambridge Analytica did no work for us formally and, if they had, it would have been way before you had to report expenditure.” I think that is what you were getting at before, “We never employed Cambridge Analytica and they never gave us anything in kind.” Then we have, “Cambridge Analytica provided initial help and guidance to the Leave.EU campaign, which then went on to develop its own artificial intelligence analysis methodology. The AI machine learning was developed in Bristol by 20 mathematicians and actuaries with input from Cambridge Analytica at the very beginning and then executed by Goddard Gunster.” Now we have come to the point where Cambridge Analytica is simply an ad agency.

Banks responded that Cambridge Analytica was simply an ad agency. Wigmore told the committee that Cambridge Analytica had done some work on the pitch for Leave.EU to be designated as the official Brexit campaign, but that ended when the rival group Vote Leave secured designation.

After an investigation into Leave.EU’s spending in the campaign, the Electoral Commission issued a fine for failing to declare all of its expenditures but ruled that “based on the evidence it has seen, the Commission is satisfied that Leave.EU did not receive donations or paid-for services from Cambridge Analytica.”

The leaked messages raise further questions, however. In February 2016, Banks wrote approvingly of Cambridge Analytica’s work for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz—before the company switched sides and joined the Trump campaign. He suggested that Leave.EU was already using Cambridge Analytica’s psychological profiling techniques. “I see ted cruz beat trump with the same online election people we use Cambridge analytica. Social profiling and targeted ads work,” he wrote. “We can message clinically to labour , Tory UKIP and all Sorts… We have 20 different messages targeted by psychology profiling SM [social media].”

After Trump was elected president that November, he wrote to another contact: “it’s interesting that the SM campaign we ran used the same AI [artificial intelligence] technology they did via Cambridge analytica. This result came as no surprise to us.”

If what Banks wrote was true, it might suggest Cambridge Analytica lent its data to Leave.EU; ran psychological profiling to be used in the referendum; or helped it to replicate its online targeting throughout the campaign. You would expect that to be declared to the Electoral Commission.

Banks and Wigmore have said publicly that Leave.EU did not pay Cambridge Analytica for any work. They said UKIP had sent data to Cambridge Analytica, but insisted that had nothing to do with Leave.EU or the Brexit campaign. Banks did eventually admit at the select committee hearing that he had donated £42,000 ($55,000) to UKIP in order to pay Cambridge Analytica for work he claims not to have benefited from.

To Banks’ annoyance, UKIP decided to keep the money rather than pay the bill. According to the leaked messages, Bannon was demanding that money from Banks, Farage, and Wigmore at Trump Tower in the days after the presidential victory—that was the trip where the Brexit campaigners posed with Trump in front of a golden elevator. 

OFFSHORE 

In the Twitter direct messages, Banks also claimed he used close ties to Team Trump to lobby on behalf of the Belizean banking sector. Banks discussed a plan to work with then-Mississippi Gov. Phil Bryant to restore support for transactions in U.S. dollars to Belize Bank. The institution lost its partnerships with Bank of America and Commerzbank after an Obama-era American crackdown on offshore tax evasion raised the costs of offering correspondent banking facilities to Belize’s biggest bank. The bank, which is owned by Conservative Party donor Lord Ashcroft, reportedly saw the value of its deposits fall 75 percent in the six months after.

Ashcroft messaged Banks in November 2016 to say: “The corespondent bank for US dollars?”

Banks replied: “We have asked about corresponding banking for Belize ( and it's been taken up ) call andy for an update !”

As well as being a spokesman for Banks and Leave.EU, Andy Wigmore was a trade and investment envoy to Britain for Belize.

The following month, Banks, who was an honorary consul to Wales for Belize, sketched out more of the plan to Ashcroft.

“Don’t know if you’ve caught up with andy but we intend to tackle the bank correspondent issue -the team we know & Bannon all headed off to the White House so fab access. We will be having a party at the inauguration with nigel and hopefully you can make it. Our plan is to get the governor of Mississippi out to Belize on a trade mission and explain the banking issue and get him to take it up directly with WH. I’ve been thinking about the banking issue and sure we can get a change of view,” he wrote.

“Our plan is to get the governor of Mississippi out to Belize on a trade mission and explain the banking issue and get him to take it up directly with WH.”

It is unclear from the messages whether Gov. Bryant, who introduced Farage and Banks to Trump, according to Banks’ book The Bad Boys of Brexit, did help to push the Belizean case in Washington, but he has not registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act as he would be required to do if he were operating on behalf of a Belizean principal.

Joseph D. Songy, a lawyer representing Gov. Bryant, told The Daily Beast: “Governor Bryant has never had any association of any kind with a bank or financial institution in Belize nor has he ever made any effort to do so.”

Neither Banks nor Wigmore registered as foreign agents either, although they may have been exempted if they were “properly recognized by the U.S. State Department” as officials acting on behalf of Belize. At the time of publication, the State Department has not been able to ascertain whether Banks and Wigmore, who were supposed to represent Belize in the U.K., were properly recognized in the U.S. at the time. Neither of them were on the U.S. diplomatic list in the summer of 2016, which is the latest information available before the Trump administration stopped making it public.

BREACH

Another set of Twitter messages suggests there may have been a breach of UKIP’s data security in October 2017, when a disgruntled regional organizer quit the party and may have used UKIP’s email database to try to recruit them to a new party. A whistleblower messaged Banks and newly elected UKIP leader Henry Bolton to say: “If I were you I’d said emails to all branches that any UKIP info being passed to For Britain is a breach they are already emailing ukipers.”

Bolton had defeated Anne Marie Waters, a former colleague of Tommy Robinson, to become leader. Waters quit the party in response to set up the radical, anti-Islamic For Britain party. The misuse of UKIP emails by an unnamed organizer who quit the party with Waters may have been an offense under the data protection act.

Bolton told The Daily Beast that he had tried but failed to improve the party’s safeguarding. “When I took over the leadership of the party I had serious concerns regarding party governance, including finance, data and management generally. Furthermore, I received no cooperation from the NEC (the party’s National Executive Committee) in addressing these things. I found it impossible to get full transparency because of NEC incompetence and obfuscation,” he said. UKIP did not respond. 

 

 

 

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Seems about right, will probably tell them about the EU as well.

Yeah, shrug, maybe in 50 years it'll turn out to be a good thing. Maybe, if they're lucky. But hey, maybe not. And in the 49 years prior he's basically conceding it's shit. And a massive social experiment that'll play out over that time.

Paris and Ireland will be the most likely short-term and mid-term winners as jobs leave England and move to EU nations.

Edited by Chopper
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Yeah, shrug, maybe in 50 years it'll turn out to be a good thing. Maybe, if they're lucky. But hey, maybe not. And in the 49 years prior he's basically conceding it's shit. And a massive social experiment that'll play out over that time.

Spiked wrote an excellent article about your kind. #twominuteshate

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/03/the-remainer-elites-are-the-true-bigots-of-brexit-britain/

Edited by Thetexashammer
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Chopper

Chopper 17355

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Oh, I apologize. It's not fair to you. I won't make fun of you anymore.

Hey if you aren't capable of countering an actual argument and all you have is a lame homosexual S&M fantasy website that calls people names with whom disagree, go with it I guess. I'm also guessing you're still in the closet and that you favor a ball gag while your wife fucks you up the ass with a big black dildo. Am I right?

edit: Dammit I shouldn't make fun of you. Carry on. I'm sure you're having fun.

Edited by Chopper
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Augustus

Augustus 3061

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chopper said:

Hey if you aren't capable of countering an actual argument and all you have is a lame homosexual S&M fantasy website that calls people names with whom disagree, go with it I guess. I'm also guessing you're still in the closet and that you favor a ball gag while your wife fucks you up the ass with a big black dildo. Am I right?

edit: Dammit I shouldn't make fun of you. Carry on. I'm sure you're having fun.

Way to differentiate yourself from that which you're condemning, lulz

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

Posted
Posted

It's been too damn long since Europe was at war.  Maybe this'll help.

Gotta have one of those things about once every 10 years or so.

Clears out all the bad blood.

Seriously, good for the Brits.  Nations have a right to self determination, borders, control of immigration flow, etc and a  national government's first responsibility is to the will of its citizens.  I know a lot of middle class folks in France who feel disenfranchised because they believe they're governed by Germany and plenty of Brits felt the same.  Whoever called the EU a government was on point.

Let a vote tally come in one vote shy of 50% and the left's real feelings about the democratic process burst into the open like the kool aid man.  I really don't think they're capable of processing the notion that reasonable, thoughtful, educated people can have a sincere difference of opinion/belief with them.  And the irony of globalists decrying nationalism is my favorite play outta their book.  Globalists are the ultimate nationalists.  In this case the nation is the EU.

 

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

Posted
Posted (edited)

They've a God given right to chart their own course, so respect their decision and wish 'em well.

But seriously, it's time to take back what Henry VI just wrapped up in a bow and set under their tree.  I mean, come on, it's time.

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bernorange

bernorange 8375

Posted
Posted
On 1/31/2020 at 2:20 PM, G650 said:

To be honest, it sounds like your Brit friends are the worst piece of shit chavs.

They could still own it if they weren't so self defeating and small minded.

So you are of the opinion that they should have kept oppressing India and Pakistan to this day?

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Augustus said:

Way to differentiate yourself from that which you're condemning, lulz

Yeah, you're right. I thought about that. However it was based on the name of the site the asswipe tried to get me to click on. To counter multiple actual reported news from legitimate news sites, as well as a US Senate document, the imbecile said I should read a site that a) I have no idea what it is so I'm not clicking. Spiked Online? LOL wtf is that? My guess is it's targeted at gay doms and subs and b) isn't a news site as you can tell from the url, but an opinion piece based on the rantings of a moron. There's a pattern among a certain group of tards where they ignore legitimate reported news and say "hey look at what this idiot I like for reasons I'm too stupid to understand wrote!"

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Augustus said:

But seriously, it's time to take back what Henry VI just wrapped up in a bow and set under their tree.  I mean, come on, it's time.

But seriously they were practically a shithole country before. I lived there for 2 years in the early 2000s and it seemed like they still thought WW2 had just concluded. They were a bunch of fucking cunts living in the past. And their government was still recovering. You think going it alone again is going to go well for them? Based on what? Why is it your entire analysis of a complex situation is blind and deaf nationalism?

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HouTex

HouTex 1901

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, bernorange said:

So you are of the opinion that they should have kept oppressing India and Pakistan to this day?

At a dinner at the White House during WWII, one of Eleanor's friends, a woman who ran a NY newspaper, in a very accusatory manner asked my avatar what should be done about the "Indian" situation.  Churchill answered: "Which ones, the one's under British rule who are thriving, or the ones in America who are almost extinct?"

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105590

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Spiked wrote an excellent article about your kind. #twominuteshate

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/03/the-remainer-elites-are-the-true-bigots-of-brexit-britain/

There IS a great confirmation in that, but it's not the one he thinks.

Disdain for people holding poorly-thought out, simplistic opinions --- well, that's INTOLERANCE!  See, the Remainers and "cosmopolitan" class [seriously, using the exact same vocab as we've seen previous, quite dark, nationalist movements use] are the REAL intolerant ones!

Disdain for people from foreign countries (that is, not disdain for what they believe, but disdain for what they are) -- that's just good old national pride, and belief in self-determination!  

And how DARE you speak poorly of my disdain for foreigners, and my simplistic blaming of them for nearly every social ill.  Why, you criticizing my positions and thinking is INTOLERANT!

This is the playbook.  It's the same one they run here, and everywhere else.  They flip the argument of tolerance on its head, disown all rules of logic, and declare they THEY are the REAL persecuted folks, for NO REASON at all, it's just because the terrible, awful people have the ARROGANCE to judge them based on their actions and beliefs!  How intolerant!

What fucking hogwash.  If you demonstrate shitty reasoning, I'll call you on it.  If you're Polish, or Pakistani, I won't call you on that....unless you ALSO demonstrate shitty reasoning.  There's a significant difference.  And of course, any time you find yourself aligned with the people and groups who have a vested interest in a weakened Europe and western world, you should probably re-examine your position.  But you won't.  Because the only proper response to any criticism of your position and thinking is to blame those criticizing you for being 'intolerant."  That's a recipe for a pretty shitty deliberative democracy.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, HouTex said:

At a dinner at the White House during WWII, one of Eleanor's friends, a woman who ran a NY newspaper, in a very accusatory manner asked my avatar what should be done about the "Indian" situation.  Churchill answered: "Which ones, the one's under British rule who are thriving, or the ones in America who are almost extinct?"

Hooooooooooooooly fuuuuuuuuuck......one more reason to love that sum'bitch !!!!!

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 11000

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Chopper said:

I don't think it's the only reason and I've stated plenty of other reasons why brits voted for it 4 years ago, and barely did so. The russians certainly illegally helped fund the pro-Brexit side. There is no doubt about it. Both the US Senate , Republican led, and Boris Johnson's own government investigated. The US Senate released a report on it, concluding affirmatively. Boris deep-sixed the british report and nobody was allowed to see it before the most recent election. But, hey, I'm sure there was nothing to see there.

Can you state your position on why it was in Russia's interest to have the UK leave the EU?

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3307

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

same vocab as we've seen previous, quite dark, nationalist movements use] are the REAL intolerant ones!

Disdain for people from foreign countries (that is, not disdain for what they believe, but disdain for what they are) -- that's just good old national pride, and belief in self-determination!  

you can't think the majority of those supporting border sovereignty think this way.  i mean maybe you do, maybe you really are this cynical about everyone and everything you disagree with, but you can't afford to.  because if you do you'll never be able to sit down and see it from the viewpoint of those whom you refuse to give the benefit of the doubt and you'll never be able to work towards a resolution which satisfies their desires and yours.  you'll continue to fight each other until someone wins and someone loses.  and the cycle perpetuates.  

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Chopper

Chopper 17355

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Can you state your position on why it was in Russia's interest to have the UK leave the EU?

To weaken europe in order to exploit it and / or put themselves at a relative advantage. Same reason why they invaded Ukraine. edit: and the same reason why to this day they continue continue to try to weaken Ukraine.

Edited by Chopper
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105590

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

you can't think the majority of those supporting border sovereignty think this way.  i mean maybe you do, maybe you really are this cynical about everyone and everything you disagree with, but you can't afford to.  because if you do you'll never be able to sit down and see it from the viewpoint of those whom you refuse to give the benefit of the doubt and you'll never be able to work towards a resolution which satisfies their desires and yours.  you'll continue to fight each other until someone wins and someone loses.  and the cycle perpetuates.  

Oh, I can also think that they fell for obvious lies, like the lie that Brexit will free up an additional 350 million pounds per week for NHS.  The layers of folly are manifold.  But what it really gets at is how badly they WANTED to believe the lies -- why is that?  It all comes back to simple human tribalism.  Globally, we're in a spasm of reversion to tribalism - an ethos that has a proven track record of bloody wars, authoritarianism, ethnic purges and genocide.  Which appears to be our nature.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3307

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I can also think that they fell for obvious lies, like the lie that Brexit will free up an additional 350 million pounds per week for NHS.  The layers of folly are manifold.  But what it really gets at is how badly they WANTED to believe the lies -- why is that?  It all comes back to simple human tribalism.  Globally, we're in a spasm of reversion to tribalism - an ethos that has a proven track record of bloody wars, authoritarianism, ethnic purges and genocide.  Which appears to be our nature.

how do you fight an idea?  you replace it with another.  you and i both subscribe to the belief that kindness begets kindness, love begets transformation.  that's how minds will change.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105590

Posted
Posted
Just now, gsoda3 said:

how do you fight an idea?  you replace it with another.  you and i both subscribe to the belief that kindness begets kindness, love begets transformation.  that's how minds will change.

I don't think I have that belief anymore.

Evil wins.  It may take a break for a period, but it always comes back in off the bench, refreshed and looking to wreck shit.  We are tribal animals who ultimately believe that the only way to ensure that "we" win is for "them" to lose.  And the only way we consolidate power to do so is by pitting "us' vs. "them."  Those are time-honored tropes because they're true and they work, and have since we were swinging animal bones at each other on the savannah.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3307

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't think I have that belief anymore.

Evil wins.  It may take a break for a period, but it always comes back in off the bench, refreshed and looking to wreck shit.  We are tribal animals who ultimately believe that the only way to ensure that "we" win is for "them" to lose.  And the only way we consolidate power to do so is by pitting "us' vs. "them."  Those are time-honored tropes because they're true and they work, and have since we were swinging animal bones at each other on the savannah.

have faith! Jesus came to redeem all of this!

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F250

F250 28946

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Augustus said:

Nations have a right to self determination, borders, control of immigration flow, etc and a  national government's first responsibility is to the will of its citizens. 

Except if they are Irish or Scottish in which case the English determine the will of the citizens from the countries of N. Ireland and Scotland.

I understand why some conservatives, particularly those that are into "Lost Cause" theory, like Brexit but it is kind of odd for Americans to celebrate British hegemony when we ourselves broke away from Great Britain. The fact is two countries were determined to stay in the E.U., not to mention Gibraltar who also voted overwhelmingly to remain in the E.U. are being forced out over some notion of English nationalism that isn't shared with the other citizens of the U.K.

Brexit really is a bizarre display of nationalism because on one hand, it is driving the U.K. out of a union with Europe while simultaneously forcing two other countries into an isolated union with the English. The lack of care given to Northern Ireland during this whole process was the clearest indicator that the the N. Irish were a subjugated people.  Brexit threatened to end the Good Friday Agreement and ignored the fact that E.U. membership created a virtual United Irelandand which appeased the Republicans and Unionists so they would stop killing each other.

Anyways, the no fucks given attitude by the Brexit side to the Celtic countries was pretty shitty and very Longshanks like.

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)

The EU has made it clear they support the territorial integrity of their member states. The Scottish nationalists can foolishly believe they can breakaway from the UK and join the EU. The truth is that they were told when they had their referendum a few years ago that they’d have to reapply to the EU. Most countries would not want to antagonize England by letting them in. I like how the Spanish jailed the Catalan separatists. That’s the way the SNP needs to be dealt with if they agitate again. Thankfully, the question of whether a state can leave our Union has been settled.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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TriStone

TriStone 1724

Posted
Posted

Sounds like one of your favorite gay S&M sites.


... lame homosexual S&M fantasy website ...


... you favor a ball gag while your wife fucks you up the ass with a big black dildo. Am I right?


Spiked Online? LOL wtf is that? My guess is it's targeted at gay doms and subs.

Wow.  All that just from seeing the word "spiked" in a URL.

I'm also guessing you're still in the closet.


It's clear that someone is.

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Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

The EU has made it clear they support the territorial integrity of their member states. The Scottish nationalists can foolishly believe they can breakaway from the UK and join the EU. The truth is that they were told when they had their referendum a few years ago that they’d have to reapply to the EU. I like how the Spanish jailed the Catalan separatists. That’s the way the SNP needs to be dealt with if they agitate again. Thankfully, the question of whether a state can leave our Union has been settled. You can’t.

I like how you are so open with your fascism.

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F250 28946

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Posted
Just now, Iconoclast Texan said:

I hadn’t realized that Franco came back from the dead to rule Spain. I was under the mistaken assumption they’re a democracy 

Most Surly supporters of Brexit: The self determination of an independent populace is paramount.

Icono: The subjugation of citizens by the State is paramount.

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