Congratulations to the UK...

[hayden_horn 11401]

8 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

She wasn't wearing a hijab.

what was she wearing, dude? you are lying.

why is @workswithseedignorant?

for suggesting the "living like an american" is different than being an american muslim who wears a hijab.

what point are you trying to make, dude?

[Fudge Nuggets 19407]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don’t know.  Things are pretty terrible in the USA right now.  You have a calculation?

The bailout is over $21 bln so far so there’s your starting point. You figure up the cost of dotard’s impending “deal” since you brought it up. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19407]

fart

Edited February 6, 2020 by Fudge Nuggets

[Armybrat 41314]

I am wearing sweatpants.

[utee94 16065]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I am wearing sweatpants.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i mean this in a friendlyish way, but do you realize how ignorantly you phrased this post? she is living like an american. you are comparing her "headdress" to loving like a foreigner. our country is made up of such "foreigners." i urge you to reread your post from the perspective of a naturalized immigrant, or an american citizen muslim who chooses the hijab. they are no less american than white christian america. 

You missed his point I believe. His comment was that she didn't have to live here as a citizen/American in some pre conceived concept of what it is to be considered "American".  It could have been phrased in a different way, but his point stands. 

I'm sure you could possibly take it to be meant as some xenophobic post, but then a xenophobe wouldn't celebrate that you don't have to conform to the typical definition of what it means to be American.

 A headdress is also not really what one would think of when they describe a typical, man on the street American (percentages, how do they work ?) as headdresses aren't part of the mainstream American culture. 

And of course the cabal chimes in to twist his post to describe it in the most negative, unintended way possible. Get a life boys.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[G650 14421]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

man on the street American

Well, she's a chick, so...

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, G650 said:

Well, she's a chick, so...

Uh huh, OK, my mistake.....literally bite me....

[G650 14421]

Yeah but your whole premise is erroneous. There is no aesthetic quality to "Americaness". You could be purple and have five arms, doesn't matter. The only qualification to being a real American is being a citizen of America. That's literally it.

I realize a lot of people equate the average white motherfucker as typical American, but that is ridiculous and a huge part of our current problem.

[Pam Cummings 9823]

There's that victim attitude that Brisket was talking about.

 

"Don't persecute me for my ignorance of the world and general racist opinions! I'm the real victim!"

Edited February 6, 2020 by Pam Cummings

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yeah but your whole premise is erroneous. There is no aesthetic quality to "Americaness". You could be purple and have five arms, doesn't matter. The only qualification to being a real American is being a citizen of America. That's literally it.

I realize a lot of people equate the average white motherfucker as typical American, but that is ridiculous and a huge part of our current problem.

Please let's walk down the street and count headdresses in America.  It's not the norm in America, and it's not what most people would describe as a typical American. His point was it doesn't matter because a headdress doesn't make her American or not American.  THAT was his point I believe.  Being an American is supposed to mean you can wear, and or look like what you want, practice your own religion, and have your own belief systems, and most importantly favorite sports teams.

While it may be a problem, it's a mathematical reality of what a typical American looks like.  The majority is white, and female I believe for now.  That's not racist, bigoted, or xenophobic, its reality. 20 years from now it'll be different, but now, and historically it's been WASP'ish heavy.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

There's that victim attitude that Brisket was talking about.

 

"Don't persecute me for my ignorance of the world and general racist opinions! I'm the real victim!"

Jesus you'd mistake a hand job for a handshake.

[G650 14421]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

While it may be a problem, it's a mathematical reality of what a typical American looks like.

 

The mathematical reality is irrelevant is the point. But thanks for the paragraph.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

48 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

The mathematical reality is irrelevant is the point. But thanks for the paragraph.

Sure is if you try to twist around what the point was

[Armybrat 41314]

...

[workswithseed 2201]

12 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i mean this in a friendlyish way, but do you realize how ignorantly you phrased this post? she is living like an american. you are comparing her "headdress" to loving like a foreigner. our country is made up of such "foreigners." i urge you to reread your post from the perspective of a naturalized immigrant, or an american citizen muslim who chooses the hijab. they are no less american than white christian america. 

I'm thinking general Jane or Dick who wears Western clothes, and a Christian lifestyle more or less. I'm thinking of things like Little China, or even the Amish it's not of the American culture, but in the American culture. 

I'm not trying to say that Ilhan Omar isn't American, but if you looked at the history of America you don't see too many people like her in any power. No American will think Uyghurs are Chinese if you showed a picture of each side by side. Except they are. 

 

[Brisketexan 106615]

22 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I'm thinking general Jane or Dick who wears Western clothes, and a Christian lifestyle more or less. I'm thinking of things like Little China, or even the Amish it's not of the American culture, but in the American culture. 

I'm not trying to say that Ilhan Omar isn't American, but if you looked at the history of America you don't see too many people like her in any power. No American will think Uyghurs are Chinese if you showed a picture of each side by side. Except they are. 

 

First, I don't think that workswithseed stepped in it in his first post.  Nor do I think that Hayden's response was wrong, although the tone was a bit harsher than merited.  Actually, I think that workswithseed maybe highlighted something interesting, without realizing it.  This phrase is an interesting one:

Quote

I'm thinking of things like Little China, or even the Amish it's not of the American culture, but in the American culture. 

It's both dead-on accurate, and wildly inaccurate.  We like to think that there's a unified "American culture" (pop culture, etc.).  But there's really not.  There's multiple parallel cultures, and there always have been.

Example 1 -- see "black people Twitter."  There's an entirely unique culture there, which is also entirely and uniquely American.  Bu tit's REAL different than what some might characterize as "mainstream" culture.

Example 2 -- see rural southern culture vs. northeastern urban culture.  Driving a truck, hunting, taking your 4-wheeler out, eating po folks food like chicken and dumplings and whatnot - definitely American culture.  Also miles apart from, say, growing up in Manhattan, the "outdoors" being Central Park, growing up eating a variety of world cuisines found in the blocks around your home, and never even learning to drive a car.  Also definitely American culture.

So, on to the hijab and other looks like that.  In rural America, that's some funny-looking shit.  DEFINITELY out of place.  Folks are gonna look funny at a gal named Ilhan who wears a hijab at the grocery store.  But on Westheimer in Houston, or at the HEB on North Lamar....it's just another look.  I spend time in either of those places, I see an absolute hodgepodge of ethnicities, fashion, etc.  And that is TOTALLY American -- that diversity is pretty unique to the US, or at least to the modern western world.  And if you live in a good-sized urban environment, you have neighbors who wear a hijab and come to your potluck, you have asian neighbors, hispanic neighbors -- they're all just part of the fabric of your community.

We talked for a long time about how all these chinese coming over were gonna mess up our country and culture....in the end, they made it richer.  Same story about the Irish.  And the Italians.  And the Mexicans.  And on and on forever.  Utlimately, they all became American...and the greater country took parts of what they brought and made it our own.  We've seen that model time and time again, but we can't help but stick with the WHOLE THING, including the ugly part at the beginning where we demonize them.

Ilhan Omar's grandkids are going to be so "American" it's not even funny.  They'll surely carry some of their family history and traditions -- maybe they'll be observant muslims....maybe they won't -- maybe they'll fucking LOVE them some bacon cheeseburgers. 

The point is, it's not just a huge waste of mental time and energy to worry about how this or that ethnic group is going to fuck things up by coming here -- time and history just don't bear that out -- but it's even worse: it's a distraction and red herring.  Any of our systemic problems, and the UK's (to bring this back home) aren't because Pakistanis or Poles live in London now.  They're due to the sytemic failures themselves.  But as always, immigrants are EASY to blame.  And man, we hairless apes LOVE easy answers, we don't much care if they're the RIGHT answers.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Continental Op 3934]

So the mods don't consider the direction this thread has veered off in to be "CRing the Daily Texan"?

[G650 14421]

14 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

but if you looked at the history of America you don't see too many people like her in any power.

Yeah, that's kind of an issue.

Fwiw I'm not accusing you of racism or bigotry or anything of the sort, I've never seen anything in your posting to suggest that. I agree with Brisket neither you nor Hayden necessarily said anything wrong. But I think the main point is there is no "average" looking American. We are so disparate across regions and communities it can't be classified.

 

I do disagree that the average American leads any semblance of a Christian life, we are all atheist as fuck, including the evangelicals.

[Brisketexan 106615]

8 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

So the mods don't consider the direction this thread has veered off in to be "CRing the Daily Texan"?

Well, being that it pretty much started there.....

[BabaYaga 15532]

Oh, look.  Another thread that has devolved into hyperbole, histrionics, and broad stroke statements bereft of even a hint nuance.....that's weird....

[XYZ 2154]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Oh, look.  Another thread that has devolved into hyperbole, histrionics, and broad stroke statements bereft of even a hint nuance.....that's weird....

It’s the shaggy surly way!

[G650 14421]

19 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Oh, look.  Another thread that has devolved into hyperbole, histrionics, and broad stroke statements bereft of even a hint nuance.....that's weird....

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[F250 29171]

42 minutes ago, G650 said:

But I think the main point is there is no "average" looking American. We are so disparate across regions and communities it can't be classified.

This reminds me of the time I was at a church service in Spain. They were doing some kind of celebration of world cultures and people dressed up to represent different cultures. The American was a guy wearing blue jeans and sneakers with a baseball hat and he had a can of Coke in one hand and a McDonald's bag in the other. When they introduced the United States he yelled Howdy!

Afterwards I was asked if it was a good representation of a typical American.

[G650 14421]

Oof.

[clapclapclap 9000]

Awesome, the Cloak Room HOA board is handing out violation notices again.

Edited February 6, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Brisketexan 106615]

16 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Awesome, the Cloak Room HOA board is handing out violation notices again.

[Loco 3754]

26 minutes ago, F250 said:

This reminds me of the time I was at a church service in Spain. They were doing some kind of celebration of world cultures and people dressed up to represent different cultures. The American was a guy wearing blue jeans and sneakers with a baseball hat and he had a can of Coke in one hand and a McDonald's bag in the other. When they introduced the United States he yelled Howdy!

Afterwards I was asked if it was a good representation of a typical American.

You should have just replied "Hee Haw"

[workswithseed 2201]

One day I'll be a word smith.

What @Brisketexan isn't wrong we're all American, but then the question is what makes us all American?

I'd say that the Constitution does, then I think about the Texas Constitution. I don't think it makes me Texan. Maybe history, or a love of it's history. 

The Brits are an Island, it never had it's coin changed to the Euro. It has a history of distance. It tried to be attached, but always hated it. I think it is what makes it British. 

 

 

[Brisketexan 106615]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

we're all American, but then the question is what makes us all American?

I'd say that the Constitution does, then I think about the Texas Constitution. I don't think it makes me Texan. Maybe history, or a love of it's history. 

Lots of things can make us American -- ties to the soil is the easiest one to spot.  I'm an American because I was born here and raised here, and have my metaphorical roots running deep through our soil.  But I think it's a common mistake to think that's the ONLY thing that makes one a "true American."

Someone who comes here because there's opportunity, and hustles to make his way, builds a life for himself, and moves and lives freely among his fellow men -- that's pretty American.  Someone who believes in the protections that the Constitution and our system provide, so that he can practice his faith without fearing harm, so that he can vote his conscience, so he can have a BBQ in his backyard to celebrate the football game, or the soccer game, or the cricket match, or what have you -- and he can cook brisket, or goat, or whatever -- that's pretty American.

I think our common thread, well, it's not our differences (ironic as that might be), but rather our ability to be a functioning society even WITH those differences.  Those differences are nonetheless an essential part of who we are -- my arm is different from my ears, but both are pretty important to who I am.  The Wyoming cowboy, the New York bond trader, the LA asian food truck owner, the mexican dude with a big Dallas Cowboys sticker next to his Chivas sticker on his pickup in San Antonio, etc. etc. -- every one of those is an important part of the Body of America.  They ALL make us greater.  And our commonality is simply the fact that we can and do live that reality.  Our commonality is that  we CAN love our neighbor, regardless of whether they are of our ethnicity or faith.  Because our commonality is one that acknowledges our shared humanity.   We all want to have a safe place to live with our families, to pursue opportunities, to get an education, to just "be."  

I'm not a believer in American Exceptionalism -- to the extent I ever was, I was idealistic and naive.  BUT....there remains that thread from the paragraph above.  It's a thread De Tocqueville wrote about -- an underlying belief that no matter our differences or competing interests, we're all in this together.  That we can believe and live that WITHOUT being an ethnically homogenous society is pretty groundbreaking.  I don't WANT us to be just another ethnic enclave -- Serbia for Serbians and that sort of thing.  Then we're just a tribe, with a bigger-than-normal village.

What makes us American is just one thing, ultimately: choosing to be an American.  It's a choice we should make every day.

[F250 29171]

49 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The Brits are an Island, it never had it's coin changed to the Euro. It has a history of distance. It tried to be attached, but always hated it. I think it is what makes it British. 

British identity is probably more confusing than American identity. While they are a pot, they are not a melting pot. Scots are British but they identify as Scottish, the same can be said of the Irish or Welsh. Actually, I think American identity is probably more confusing now that I think about it. They seem to be baffled by our blending culture.

And back to the original topic, many of the non-Anglo British did not hate being attached to the EU and had no issue identifying as European.

[Armybrat 41314]

2 hours ago, Continental Op said:

So the mods don't consider the direction this thread has veered off in to be "CRing the Daily Texan"?

Nah, it is being Bada Binged now.

interesting social/racial discussion.

[hayden_horn 11401]

5 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You missed his point I believe. His comment was that she didn't have to live here as a citizen/American in some pre conceived concept of what it is to be considered "American".  It could have been phrased in a different way, but his point stands. 

I'm sure you could possibly take it to be meant as some xenophobic post, but then a xenophobe wouldn't celebrate that you don't have to conform to the typical definition of what it means to be American.

 A headdress is also not really what one would think of when they describe a typical, man on the street American (percentages, how do they work ?) as headdresses aren't part of the mainstream American culture. 

And of course the cabal chimes in to twist his post to describe it in the most negative, unintended way possible. Get a life boys.

i did not take it to be a xenophobic post, honestly, just came off as slightly ignorant as to what it means to be an american. 

it's that preconceived notion that i'm challenging. i have a good friend, american citizen, naturalized from venezuela. she has an entirely different idea of america than my whitebread dumb ass. 

but i do see his point, and he clarified in a subsequent post, which i will address. 

[hayden_horn 11401]

3 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I'm thinking general Jane or Dick who wears Western clothes, and a Christian lifestyle more or less. I'm thinking of things like Little China, or even the Amish it's not of the American culture, but in the American culture. 

I'm not trying to say that Ilhan Omar isn't American, but if you looked at the history of America you don't see too many people like her in any power. No American will think Uyghurs are Chinese if you showed a picture of each side by side. Except they are. 

 

okay, this makes sense, and i can discern your meaning a little clearer. and i was honestly meaning my post in a friendlyish way. you're making a good point, and it's spawned a good discussion. i think we unintentionally rerailed the thread a little bit, in a typically american way, taking a uk thread and making it into a very interesting discussion on what it means to be american. hahaha

[Brisketexan 106615]

11 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

taking a uk thread and making it into a very interesting discussion on what it means to be american

Well, i mean, that's how we started our whole country: in the beginning, there was "FUCK YOU LIMEYS," and the Americans saw that it was good.

[Armybrat 41314]

Well yeah, now that’s what said limeys just told Merkel and those Brussels sprouts.

[Brisketexan 106615]

2 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Well yeah, now that’s what said limeys just told Merkel and those Brussels sprouts.

And it's not always the right thing to say.

"Fuck the Union" didn't work out too well for Jefferson Davis and crew.  Or for the Scots (on like, 50 different occasions -- they are GREAT at saying "FOOK YEEEEW!," not so good at thinking it through).

[BabaYaga 15532]

12 minutes ago, F250 said:

many of the non-Anglo British did not hate being attached to the EU and had no issue identifying as European.

We all understand that immigration played a part in the decision.  Having spent two weeks there a matter of months ago, and having this topic come up over and over and over - the anecdotal evidence from the interactions I had were all tied to economics, not nationalism and immigration.  Specifically the looming European debt crisis.  If there were ties to immigration, they were focussed on the impact to he financial burden on already strained social services.  

But the one constant was around financial conerns with the EU.  Greece.  Italy.  Spain.  Portugal.  Without the ability to manipulate their own currencies, the viability of these leveraged countries is also very much in doubt (staying within the EU).  Italy's debt-to-GDP is north of 130%.  This is the 8th largest economy in the world.  Only the US, China, and Japan are carrying more debt in nominal dollars.  Greece and the others are worse.  It's a giant mess and the bill is coming due.  Nor can any of these countries inflate away their debt concerns (as we have tried to do) because they are tied to euro (the crux of the matter).  They can't grow their way out.  Austerity measures?  Anyone remeber the riots in Greece over those?  Their economies are amemic over the last two decades - leaving only default as an option.  Or being bailed out (AGAIN)...but by whom?  Germany?  Again?  Almost every european country is tied to the Italian economy to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars each.  

[workswithseed 2201]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And it's not always the right thing to say.

"Fuck the Union" didn't work out too well for Jefferson Davis and crew.  Or for the Scots (on like, 50 different occasions -- they are GREAT at saying "FOOK YEEEEW!," not so good at thinking it through).

It probably helped us that our fore father's thought how to make a govt after thier first attempt.

We all know how we feel about beans in chili, that's a Texas culture, but others have changed the meaning of chili, then move to Texas to make it more agreeable to do put it in Texas. 

Is it easier to change thier minds, or ours? I'm glad to have been a part of making this a more interesting debate. 

[Brisketexan 106615]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Almost every european country is tied to the Italian economy to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars each.  

But, counterpoint....

Being, ummm, tied to Italians ain't all bad.

[Armybrat 41314]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And it's not always the right thing to say.

"Fuck the Union" didn't work out too well for Jefferson Davis and crew.  Or for the Scots (on like, 50 different occasions -- they are GREAT at saying "FOOK YEEEEW!," not so good at thinking it through).

True, but I think the Brits want to preserve their sovereignty, not slavery or general fuckery.

so my friends tell me.

Y’all will just have to see how it works out for them.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22241]

We could offer to let them join our union.  Of course they would have to ditch the royals

[Brisketexan 106615]

Sure...but the problem is that

1 minute ago, Armybrat said:

preserve their sovereignty

is a term so broad as to be meaningless.  You might argue "it means local control of financial policies."  A bunch of other people might argue "it means Britain for the British, and all those other brownies can bugger off!"

[Armybrat 41314]

My Brit buds are all in on diversity..... heck, one of them even married an Italian. 😉

Edited February 6, 2020 by Armybrat

[Brisketexan 106615]

7 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

My Brit buds are all in on diversity..... heck, one of them even married an Italian. 😉

That's nothing new....

[Armybrat 41314]

Same fellow is rebuilding a 250 year old French farmhouse & barn to retire .....  in the middle of nowhere Loissiere, Chaillac.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Armybrat

[F250 29171]

34 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We all understand that immigration played a part in the decision.  Having spent two weeks there a matter of months ago, and having this topic come up over and over and over - the anecdotal evidence from the interactions I had were all tied to economics, not nationalism and immigration.  Specifically the looming European debt crisis.  If there were ties to immigration, they were focussed on the impact to he financial burden on already strained social services.  

But the one constant was around financial conerns with the EU.  Greece.  Italy.  Spain.  Portugal.  Without the ability to manipulate their own currencies, the viability of these leveraged countries is also very much in doubt (staying within the EU).  Italy's debt-to-GDP is north of 130%.  This is the 8th largest economy in the world.  Only the US, China, and Japan are carrying more debt in nominal dollars.  Greece and the others are worse.  It's a giant mess and the bill is coming due.  Nor can any of these countries inflate away their debt concerns (as we have tried to do) because they are tied to euro (the crux of the matter).  They can't grow their way out.  Austerity measures?  Anyone remeber the riots in Greece over those?  Their economies are amemic over the last two decades - leaving only default as an option.  Or being bailed out (AGAIN)...but by whom?  Germany?  Again?  Almost every european country is tied to the Italian economy to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars each.  

When I mentioned the non-Anglo British, I was referring to the other white countries that wanted to remain, the ones that historically were treated as less than by the English. Being in the E.U. put them almost in equal footing with the English and it was good for their economies.

[BabaYaga 15532]

7 minutes ago, F250 said:

and it was good for their economies.

As long as the integrity of the EU is maintained, sure.  The problem is whether you put any credence into the looming european debt crisis or not?  Most I know feel it's only a matter of time.  So let's assume you feel it's inevitable.  Then what do you do?  We're talking trillions of dollars.  If default is the only remedy, catastrophe is a matter of time - cascading into the economies of the smaller, surrounding economies and making 2008 look like a wet fart in a windstorm.  100%+ debt-to-GDP is insane.  Default becomes inevitable when the interest owned on the debt surpasses the yearly GDP revenues.  This is how wars start.  This is how countries break apart.  Debtor countries take on immense resentment to those holding (and calling in) their debt.  Their victimhood reaches critical mass.  So again, what are Europe's options?  Austerity measures?  Already tried that (riots).  Growth?  Not happening?  Bailout - ok, from whom?  Germany can't float Italy, Greece, Spain, and Portugal.  Neither can the UK.

[utee94 16065]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

We could offer to let them join our union.  Of course they would have to ditch the royals

They're already exporting their royals over here.  The Second British Invasion has begun.

[Armybrat 41314]

Just now, utee94 said:

They're already exporting their royals over here.  The Second British Invasion has begun.

Looks like Canada will have to put up with them for five more years. 😂