Congratulations to the UK...

[Armybrat 40824]

46 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Wait, what thread is this?

The NBA immigrating to Spain, and homoerotic tattoos?

Edited February 14, 2020 by Armybrat

[Js1 85291]

4 hours ago, Armybrat said:

The NBA immigrating to Spain, and homoerotic tattoos?

*Kyle Shanahan and Chris Simms enters the chat* 

[Chopper 17230]

On 2/14/2020 at 11:58 AM, F250 said:

I am not sure if the Republicans in N.I. have the votes for unification at the moment, there are still a lot of die hard Unionists in N.I. who's butt's pucker at the idea of being under complete Irish rule. I've read that there is a growing number of disenfranchised Unionists/Protestants that feel as if they were abandoned by Westminster.

It will be interesting to see if enough of them might be persuaded to leave. Either way, the Irish population is close to overtaking them and will eventually have the votes. Although with a Sinn Fein lead government in Ireland and Northern Ireland the two countries will likely act as one, especially if you consider the Irish born in N.I. are entitled to ROI citizenship which is a backdoor to EU citizenship. Currently they have a virtual United Ireland, unless the English step in and try and muck it up.

You know this but lemme see if I can put it into words. England and the EU still have to figure out how the border between the EU (Irleand) and the UK (N Ireland) will work. It should have been negotiated before Brexit but Boris Johnson/ Teresa May and cohorts speak out of both sides of their mouths, and after years of negotiations there was no resolution. Each side wants or has an interest in the free flow of people and goods between NI and the Ireland but now that they're countries with 2 different immigration, import and export laws they'll need a hard border -- the question is how do you put a hard border between NI and Ireland without causing a huge problem for both? There's been no mutually agreeable way to do it. Thus, the impasse and there's no foreseeable resolution that works out well for both the Irish and the English. That's one reason why many think Brexit will lead to Irish reunification and further fuckage for "the Crown."

Edited February 15, 2020 by Chopper

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

19 hours ago, Chopper said:

You know this but lemme see if I can put it into words. England and the EU still have to figure out how the border between the EU (Irleand) and the UK (N Ireland) will work. It should have been negotiated before Brexit but Boris Johnson/ Teresa May and cohorts speak out of both sides of their mouths, and after years of negotiations there was no resolution. Each side wants or has an interest in the free flow of people and goods between NI and the Ireland but now that they're countries with 2 different immigration, import and export laws they'll need a hard border -- the question is how do you put a hard border between NI and Ireland without causing a huge problem for both? There's been no mutually agreeable way to do it. Thus, the impasse and there's no foreseeable resolution that works out well for both the Irish and the English. That's one reason why many think Brexit will lead to Irish reunification and further fuckage for "the Crown."

The laws of Celestial mechisnics dictate  that when two objects collide there will be damage of a collateral nature.

[Armybrat 40824]

Just as long as The Guinness keeps flowing.

[Chopper 17230]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Just as long as The Guinness keeps flowing.

You've hit the nail on the head. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. England is not going to be able to import goods below EU-standards from China or Vietnam or even the US, and then send it on to the EU. It will be interesting to say the least to see how their trade and border problems get resolved. 

[Armybrat 40824]

As long as it gets resolved to the satisfaction of the Irish.... after centuries of English domination.

[Chopper 17230]

10 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

As long as it gets resolved to the satisfaction of the Irish.... after centuries of English domination.

I'm all for that. But I wonder what the Pro-Brexit, No Deal Conservatives who were claiming to be pro-British and actually claiming to have more patriotism for the UK than those didn't want to leave the EU think. Perhaps the greatest irony of brexit will be Irish reunification.

[Michael Knight 12977]

 

 

[Armybrat 40824]

Poor Jeremy....

 

[elfenix 34225]

Seems like this has turned out really well for the UK and voters aren't repudiating it at all.

[Chopper 17230]

Confused "conservatives" still flabbergasted why leaving the European Single Market (while having no other major trading partners), and using the imaginary savings to bolster the UK's health system and other crumbling infrastructure didn't work out for them.

[Brisketexan 105078]

Confused "conservatives" still flabbergasted why leaving the European Single Market (while having no other major trading partners), and using the imaginary savings to bolster the UK's health system and other crumbling infrastructure didn't work out for them.

Oh…no, see, all of that savings is coming….in two weeks. Isn’t that how it works with those types? They promise the moon, and it will be delivered in exactly two weeks. And when you check in two weeks to see if it’s shown up…they’ll tell you it’s coming in two weeks.

Because- and this important - they are lying. Always. From start to finish.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh…no, see, all of that savings is coming….in two weeks. Isn’t that how it works with those types? They promise the moon, and it will be delivered in exactly two weeks. And when you check in two weeks to see if it’s shown up…they’ll tell you it’s coming in two weeks.

Because- and this important - they are lying. Always. From start to finish.

And bastards like Farage still claim that Brexit was right choice for the UK but it was executed poorly. And he's rewarded with a seat in Parliament.

I've also seen that the conservatives and farage claim that they never promised that the NHS would see an influx of money with Brexit, even though they had a bus driving around England with that phrase.

[Dahobbs 17527]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:17 AM, Armybrat said:

And he was correct in his sentiments.

That worked out well for them. 

[Armybrat 40824]

It ain’t over until the fat lady sings, and Labour won’t call for a redo.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

18 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

It ain’t over until the fat lady sings, and Labour won’t call for a redo.

Come on man. Brexit will go down as one of the biggest unforced errors in non wartime. The Brits basically just asked for the world to kick them in the balls. And some of them feel proud because they’re showing the rest of Europe how much abuse they can take.

[Brisketexan 105078]

Come on man. Brexit will go down as one of the biggest unforced errors in non wartime. The Brits basically just asked for the world to kick them in the balls. And some of them feel proud because they’re showing the rest of Europe how much abuse they can take.

Seriously. Brexit has turned out to be 1) none of the good that the Brexiteer liars promised, and 2) all of the bad that the Remainers warned about. I’m talking with nearly 100% accuracy on both counts. None of the fantasized good, all of the predicted bad. It’s one of the all-time dumbest moves ever, and the proof is in the pudding.

[Armybrat 40824]

And Starmer won’t fix it.

[Brisketexan 105078]

And Starmer won’t fix it.

Probably not. Global politics suffers from a shortage of courage and will. Labor should say “fuck you, we’re gonna unfick what you totally fucked up.” But they almost certainly won’t.

[Samson's Wig 3191]

I'm not sure they could, even if they tried.

[Chopper 17230]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

It ain’t over until the fat lady sings, and Labour won’t call for a redo.

There's no "fixing it" unless the EU wants to dance with them again, and with the way the UK jerked them around for many years, that seems really, really doubtful. I can't imagine the UK receiving another invitation to join the EU any time soon, and if/when they do it will likely be under very different, less generous, terms than what they had before. Just one more reason why it was such a stupid move in the first place.

Edited July 5 by Chopper

[bolverk 29656]

8 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

And Starmer won’t fix it.

Why would you want him to "fix" something you supported and celebrated? Or are you now admitting you fell for the Kremlin-backed campaign and that the whole thing was a stupid fucking mistake?

The UK, a country to which you seem to have a strong affinity, is worse off in almost every way that one could imagine because of Brexit, which is exactly what Putin wanted. And guess what? Russia continues to support nationalists who loudly proclaim, "MAKE [insert name of whatever country] GREAT AGAIN!" while they fracture alliances and Balkanize the West.

 

 

[Chopper 17230]

The only smart thing the Conservative party did in the 14 years they had control of the government was to support Ukraine. If Farange had been in charge of their party, he'd have rolled over on his back and asked one of Putin's boys to rub his belly.

[atomheartbevo 89629]

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

There's no "fixing it" unless the EU wants to dance with them again, and with the way the UK jerked them around for many years, that seems really, really doubtful. I can't imagine the UK receiving another invitation to join the EU any time soon, and if/when they do it will likely be under very different, less generous, terms than what they had before. Just one more reason why it was such a stupid move in the first place.

The EU knows this was driven partly by Russian misinformation.  The door will be open if the UK wants it. The EU is extremely strong economically (and militarily) and they know that the Russians and Chinese are going to fuck around as much as possible, and their unity will help keep them in check economically.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

The EU knows this was driven partly by Russian misinformation.  The door will be open if the UK wants it. The EU is extremely strong economically (and militarily) and they know that the Russians and Chinese are going to fuck around as much as possible, and their unity will help keep them in check economically.

I could see the EU looking at the UK as just being stupid and giving them the right to rejoin as they were but zero concessions. I doubt that Labour would have the courage to do so, even though they have the power. 

[Armybrat 40824]

Say what you will, the timing was unpredictably unfortunate because of the Covid pandemic blowing up immediately after Brexit. 
That has had a terribble effect on the EU economy as well.

[bolverk 29656]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Say what you will, the timing was unpredictably unfortunate because of the Covid pandemic blowing up immediately after Brexit. 
That has had a terribble effect on the EU economy as well.

Since Covid, the EU's economic growth rate has been twice that of the UK. 

[Chopper 17230]

The conservatives just ran out of time.

[Armybrat 40824]

1 minute ago, Chopper said:

The conservatives just ran out of time.

No, just ran out of votes. 

[Chopper 17230]

This article by the Financial Times' lead economist (12/2023) seems spot-on to me. Pasting the most salient bit:

 

“The EU today is no longer the EU that the UK left. We have begun to draw the lessons of Brexit.”

The uncertainty an application to join would create is quite clear. The battle to reapply alone would consume much of a parliament. There would need to be a new referendum — in my view, two, one to launch negotiations and another to assess its terms. Between these, there would be yet another negotiation, with unpredictable outcomes. The UK would look deranged in doing this so soon. For business, it would be a nightmare.

Moreover, reopening the question would be bitterly divisive. Yes, the result of a referendum might go the other way this time. But that is far from certain. What it would certainly do is redivide the country, with Leavers viewing it as a betrayal and Remainers as a chance for revenge. Labour, if it were indeed in government, would be mad to undertake so divisive a project. Worse, it would divert attention and energy away from tackling many other economic and social challenges. Sir Keir Starmer knows this.

Most important, the outcome would not be the UK’s to decide. The EU would want to be quite confident that the new member would be more co-operative and committed than the old one. Given the many challenges the EU confronts, it cannot afford to take on a big and potentially hostile member. Who can forget the offensive scene in which Nigel Farage and his Brexit party colleagues stood with their backs to the podium while the anthem played at the opening session of the EU parliament in 2019?

It would be reasonable, then, for the EU to insist that there would be neither opt outs nor rebates. Those are history. The UK would also surely have to join the eurozone. That would not only be a test of its commitment, but would also make it more difficult to leave, as the eurozone crisis showed. It would also be mere common sense, prior to opening negotiations, to demand that the UK’s vote in favour, in a referendum, would be at least 60 per cent. Even higher levels would make sense.

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89629]

Conference realignment talk still not going away.

[bolverk 29656]

9 minutes ago, Chopper said:

This article by the Financial Times' lead economist (12/2023) seems spot-on to me. Pasting the most salient bit:

 

“The EU today is no longer the EU that the UK left. We have begun to draw the lessons of Brexit.”

The uncertainty an application to join would create is quite clear. The battle to reapply alone would consume much of a parliament. There would need to be a new referendum — in my view, two, one to launch negotiations and another to assess its terms. Between these, there would be yet another negotiation, with unpredictable outcomes. The UK would look deranged in doing this so soon. For business, it would be a nightmare.

Moreover, reopening the question would be bitterly divisive. Yes, the result of a referendum might go the other way this time. But that is far from certain. What it would certainly do is redivide the country, with Leavers viewing it as a betrayal and Remainers as a chance for revenge. Labour, if it were indeed in government, would be mad to undertake so divisive a project. Worse, it would divert attention and energy away from tackling many other economic and social challenges. Sir Keir Starmer knows this.

Most important, the outcome would not be the UK’s to decide. The EU would want to be quite confident that the new member would be more co-operative and committed than the old one. Given the many challenges the EU confronts, it cannot afford to take on a big and potentially hostile member. Who can forget the offensive scene in which Nigel Farage and his Brexit party colleagues stood with their backs to the podium while the anthem played at the opening session of the EU parliament in 2019?

It would be reasonable, then, for the EU to insist that there would be neither opt outs nor rebates. Those are history. The UK would also surely have to join the eurozone. That would not only be a test of its commitment, but would also make it more difficult to leave, as the eurozone crisis showed. It would also be mere common sense, prior to opening negotiations, to demand that the UK’s vote in favour, in a referendum, would be at least 60 per cent. Even higher levels would make sense.

 

 

 

Right. Letting the UK back into the EU in this environment would risk another Hungary (Fun fact: Orban celebrated Brexit). They can try again once the West's nationalist/populist fever breaks, that is if we manage to survive the disease.

[Parliament 14247]

Maybe we can get them in NAFTA?  Conference realignment and such?

[Superhero 8828]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Come on man. Brexit will go down as one of the biggest unforced errors in non wartime. The Brits basically just asked for the world to kick them in the balls. And some of them feel proud because they’re showing the rest of Europe how much abuse they can take.

The U.S.

Edited July 5 by Superhero

['stache 21798]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Maybe we can get them in NAFTA?  Conference realignment and such?

They can join the Pac 12. Makes as much sense as Cal in the ACC.

Edited July 5 by 'stache

[Chopper 17230]

[CooterBrown 18004]

The puppet is a nice touch.

[Chopper 17230]

@Armybrat - figured you'd like this.

[Sawbonz 27542]

On 7/5/2024 at 12:47 PM, bolverk said:

Since Covid, the EU's economic growth rate has been twice that of the UK. 

Who would have thought an island country with little land mass, small population with a negative fertility rate, and not much in the way of natural resources would be better off aligning with the rest of Europe than trying to go it alone

[TKthunder2 4985]

On 7/5/2024 at 2:08 PM, Parliament said:

Maybe we can get them in NAFTA?  Conference realignment and such?

This is how Oceania/Air Strip One came to be…

[bolverk 29656]

28 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Who would have thought an island country with little land mass, small population with a negative fertility rate, and not much in the way of natural resources would be better off aligning with the rest of Europe than trying to go it alone

The Brits voting for it were duped by jingoistic promises they could "Take back control!" and "Global Britain!" without thinking through the consequences. At its heart, the campaign was based on notions of English exceptionalism and xenophobia, which played to the fever dream emotions of older voters wanting to relive the glories of the former Empire and poorly educated blue-collar workers.

Fucking aggy-esque mass delusion: Sure, blame all our problems on immigrants and the Continent. No, you dumbasses. That's what was keeping your little island afloat. Now, all you're left with is London's weakened financial sector and the English language (helps cultural exports: film, TV, and music industries), but neither of those does fuck-all for the working class. UK export industries were essentially put at a deep competitive disadvantage in the European market (half their trade), while UK customers were only treated with higher import prices.

It's amazing how people consistently vote against their own interests if given the chance to blame/hate/punish others for their own ills. Sadly, that kind of myopic thinking is what gets them in trouble in the first place. The silver lining is that the UK public seems to have finally woken up to the disastrous reality, but I wonder if all those Surlyites who were applauding Brexit on the first page have.

[Sawbonz 27542]

[Armybrat 40824]

Here’s an interesting 2 page thread from the City-Data UK forum - topic is about their July 4th election, but devolves into discussion about the Ukraine War, Brexit, & NATO. 
It includes a couple of interviews (one by Tucker Carlson 🙃) with Nigel Farage and an American policy wonk. 
Poster “Brave New World” is an anti-American Brit,  “James Austen” is a former Brit who lives on the US West Coast, and  “Dizzybint” is an old Scottish lady who is an ardent monarchist. Also there apparently is an American poster it it too.
Am not familiar with the other participants.

They are pretty civil even though some of the opinions are quite divergent. Well worth the read to see what a handfull  of furriners sre thinking.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/united-kingdom/3473682-bbc-nick-robinson-interviews-nigel-farage.html