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2020 Dems: Iowa (how it works and what to look for)

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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BrickHorn
BrickHorn

Here’s the thing: I’m not jazzed about Pete or Biden or Bloomberg.  But if the various Dem factions are going to demand perfection from their candidate, then we’re going to lose again to a Republican

Brothahorn
Brothahorn
Al_4_ISU
Al_4_ISU

Just got done reading this entire thread.  Your hate warms my heart.  Y'all like bacon?  Then shut the fuck up and tolerate our political absurdity.

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pacman

pacman 7324

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 Asked to elaborate, she said she liked that Trump "put America first." She was tired of government money helping the poor in other countries, and I guess she was so glad that was being taken away she was willing to take it out of her own pocket too. She liked that Trump was gettin' tuff with China on trade

 

Nevermind the known results of the China trade war was to create a market in Putin's Russia that didn't previously exist, doubled Russian farm exports?, while American farmers suffered tremendously.

Nevermind, Trump's most controversial moves always seem to somehow benefit Putin and Russia.

Yet another frustrating conversation to have with Trump supporters...who can never really explain why they are Trump supporters 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Today is the first day since Donald Trump was elected that I've felt his chances of winning in November are better than his chances of losing and a lot of it has to do with Democratic  Party incompetence. 

don't sleep on trump going trump in the sotu tonight.

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10910

Posted
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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Today is the first day since Donald Trump was elected that I've felt his chances of winning in November are better than his chances of losing and a lot of it has to do with Democratic  Party incompetence. 

Really? I feel like most of us have felt that was for a couple years now. He'll win without winning the popular vote again.

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3922

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1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

I think thats very true.  A large chunk of Rs vote that straight party because of abortion or guns, and they could give a shit less what flaws their candidates have as long as they will uphold those pillars.  Christian conservatives were clutching their pearls about Trump during the nomination, but they love him now because hes pumping out right-leaning judges as fast as he possibly can.  I dont think the democrats really have that same absolute allegiance to issues like that.  

Many D's probably do, actually. On abortion and guns, of all things. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
Just now, longhornmatt said:

Lol.  They literally don’t give a shit about his betrayals on policy and will vote for him anyway.  That is the most certain thing in all of this.

because he's "sticking it to the libs." that's the clearest thing out of this whole situation. they are willing to give their pint of blood in the big effort to stick it to the libs.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9934

Posted
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4 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Dems should just hand these out to all candidates and move on to NH

51h2kBqXP2L._AC_SY355_.jpg

We understand the problem - and it has plagued the Party for some time now. 

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It’s not hard to see the Iowa fiasco as an illustration of an even more deeply-seated pathology: elite incompetence. Too many people with the right resumes get to fail upwards or at worst sideways. And remember, unlike our older WASP-y leaders who were a combination of people from the right clubs and self-made men, our current crop of people in charge pride themselves on being the end products of a meritocratic system, as in their claim to legitimacy stems from the claim that they are more talented (gah) than mere mortals and therefore obviously should be in the top slots because they’ll do oh so much better than everyone else.

And it’s the Democratic party, as the representative of the 10% professional managerial classes, that really owns this disease. Recall in Thomas Frank’s Listen Liberal how he set forth, without irony, a conference that was treacly with the self-regard, with the way every participant was lavished with embarrassing exaggerations of their accomplishments. No one had the slightest sense of how narcissistic and pampered they seemed. And it wasn’t hard to imagine they’d all collapse in a heap if presented with a real challenge, like suddenly becoming destitute or being dumped in a remote area with neither a water bottle nor GPS.

And we keep seeing this leadership class succeed in rent extraction and not much else.

Go down the list: The post-crisis failure to reform the banks or even go through the motions by incarcerating a few execs and turfing out some board members. Our grossly over-priced, underperforming health care system. Our student-impoverishing higher education system. The F-35. The botched Obamacare rollout. Our Middle-East nation-breaking, which has scored geopolitical own goals like destabilizing Europe, facilitating Russia asserting itself a geopolitical power despite having an economy the size of South Korea and in the face of our economic sanctions, and making us deservedly disliked around the world. Hillary Clinton losing to of all people Donald Trump despite spending twice as much as his campaign spend because her team was enamored of Robby Mook’s models and somehow forgot about the Electoral College. 

And if you believe, as Team Dem does, that every problem can be solved with better PR, the corollary is you never admit to failure, you never do post mortems, and you keep incompetents around who you allow to fail and fail again. 

 

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/02/iowa-democrats-and-elite-incompetence.html

 

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47836

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Just now, David Dennison said:

That's smart.

Joe Biden's campaign is in big, big trouble.

I wish that old fucker would decide to sacrifice himself in one act of good, make a deal for the VP spot again, and act as a Kingmaker of sorts to one of the other candidates. You'd think creating a lasting, positive legacy that would live beyond his lifetime is something that old people near death would value, but apparently not in today's politics. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18646

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Just now, hayden_horn said:

because he's "sticking it to the libs." that's the clearest thing out of this whole situation. they are willing to give their pint of blood in the big effort to stick it to the libs.

I think a lot of people are going to go into the booth and think to themselves that things aren't all that bad and vote for the incumbent, especially older voters who remember the chaos of the '60s. This is nothing compared to that. Plus, there's the news of a strongish economy.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20676

Posted
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2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I wish that old fucker would decide to sacrifice himself in one act of good, make a deal for the VP spot again, and act as a Kingmaker of sorts to one of the other candidates. You'd think creating a lasting, positive legacy that would live beyond his lifetime is something that old people near death would value, but apparently not in today's politics. 

The annoying part is he really didn't WANT to run. Enough people got in his ear and convinced him he was the savior needed to beat Trump. It's so fucking stupid. 

 

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10138

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22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Today is the first day since Donald Trump was elected that I've felt his chances of winning in November are better than his chances of losing and a lot of it has to do with Democratic  Party incompetence. 

I was there when the Democratic party's platform for 2020 was/is: "defeat Trump"

The minute they made this election about Trump the person they lost.

 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22598

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Just now, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I was there when the Democratic party's platform for 2020 was/is: "defeat Trump"

The minute they made this election about Trump the person they lost.

 

The national mood shift really occurred right when all of those "the powerful Democratic donors are not pleased with the field and are trying to get candidate X/Y/Z to enter the race."  I don't have data to back it up, but it sure feels like that was the moment polls went from "5+ people will destroy Trump" to "Trump is probably going to win again."

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20676

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Thinking more about Biden's possibly low number of 13-14% in Iowa...imagine how shitty that number would be if he wasn't considered the "favorite" by punditry and national polls. 

His whole candidacy is perceived electability. And he's going to finish a distant 4th (maybe 5th) in Iowa. The guy has been a complete campaigning disaster in his previous presidential runs as well. 

What the fuck are we doing? 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33831

Posted
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1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Thinking more about Biden's possibly low number of 13-14% in Iowa...imagine how shitty that number would be if he wasn't considered the "favorite" by punditry and national polls. 

His whole candidacy is perceived electability. And he's going to finish a distant 4th (maybe 5th) in Iowa. The guy has been a complete campaigning disaster in his previous presidential runs as well. 

What the fuck are we doing? 

allowing (figuratively) ANYBODY to run for office instead of having, oh I dunno, minor rules and guidelines to help weed out a not viable candidates

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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Posted
The idea of being a kingmaker doesn't actually make much sense. He'd be an AWFUL surrogate on the road and he has no real voter base to try and persuade over.
Biden's brain is mush and he still thinks it's 1997. He needs to sit down, shut up, and take the occasional round of applause at various D events he lends his visible support to.
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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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2 minutes ago, Eastwood said:
17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:
The idea of being a kingmaker doesn't actually make much sense. He'd be an AWFUL surrogate on the road and he has no real voter base to try and persuade over.

Biden's brain is mush and he still thinks it's 1997. He needs to sit down, shut up, and take the occasional round of applause at various D events he lends his visible support to.

and stop being so touchy and kissy

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ruitxn

ruitxn 295

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Posted
10 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Good lord Iowa, you had one fucking job. I hope the Mississippi River overflows its banks and wipes out that turd of a state. 

It is hard to transition to this new techno stuff when you are used to Morse code.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Just now, Fozzz said:

lol Bloomberg is already second to Bernie in the betting markets for the Dem nom.  It most likely come down to Bernie versus an oligarch trying to outright buy the nomination.  

I'm not going to name names, but there are a few here who will convince themselves Bloomberg makes sense

(I think Bozo is already there?)

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I'm not going to name names, but there are a few here who will convince themselves Bloomberg makes sense

(I think Bozo is already there?)

I don't see any reason why the "it's a republic, not a democracy" folks would have any issue with someone buying a nomination.  

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47836

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Out of curiosity, and as someone who hasn't paid attention to Bloomberg, why exactly would he be such a laughably bad candidate? You know, in the world of "Anyone But Trump" I fail to see how a (hopefully, I haven't been paying attention) less evil and vile version of a successful Billionaire with potentially strong business and economic ties would be the worst thing in the world if he happens to match up well against Trump. Someone kindly inform me. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Out of curiosity, and as someone who hasn't paid attention to Bloomberg, why exactly would he be such a laughably bad candidate? You know, in the world of "Anyone But Trump" I fail to see how a (hopefully, I haven't been paying attention) less evil and vile version of a successful Billionaire with potentially strong business and economic ties would be the worst thing in the world if he happens to match up well against Trump. Someone kindly inform me. 

I'm going to answer in the Bloomberg thread!

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20676

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Just now, GSU&UT said:

Pretty certain Bloomberg's whole goal is to not necessarily win the nomination but suck up enough delegates to prevent Bernie from outright winning it.

Maybe, but on the surface it makes zero sense. 

Bloomberg is pulling polling percentage points from moderates. He is an alternative to Joe. Think it helps a Bernie/Warren coalition more than anything else. 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Maybe, but on the surface it makes zero sense. 

Bloomberg is pulling polling percentage points from moderates. He is an alternative to Joe. Think it helps a Bernie/Warren coalition more than anything else. 

I thought so too at first but if Biden is cratering Bloomberg being there to suck up so much ad time may hurt Warren and Bernie. We'll see, I really don't think he's in it to win, it'd be an insane result.

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