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Texas St. Armadillos

By Texas St. Armadillos
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Tom
Tom

Republicans: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  LOL Trump wouldn't shake that bitch's hand!!!!!  He's so good at sticking it to libs. Also Republicans an hour later while choking back tears: Why did she have t

Johnny Sack
Johnny Sack

It’s really something to watch a group of people so consumed with hate for a single individual that they’re unable to applaud for common sense victories that our President is accomplishing. Mind bo

Johnny Sack
Johnny Sack

@bottlecap keeps negging me.  What a butthurt pussy

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Captainant

Captainant 27464

Posted
Posted
Just now, Johnny Sack said:

It decreased because we are in the process of making China bend the knee.  That is a good thing.

Not what I asked. How does decreasing the trade deficit improve the US economy, and more specifically, how does it benefit wage earners?

You're spending energy making the point that reducing the trade deficit is good, so I'd like to know why you think it's good in terms of actual outcomes and not just talking points that aren't quantifiable.

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3922

Posted
Posted
Just now, Captainant said:

Not what I asked. How does decreasing the trade deficit improve the US economy, and more specifically, how does it benefit wage earners?

You're spending energy making the point that reducing the trade deficit is good, so I'd like to know why you think it's good in terms of actual outcomes and not just talking points that aren't quantifiable.

Because math, dummy

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45496

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Why Trump has such an advantage among low-information voters.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/01/why-trump-has-huge-advantage-over-democrats-low-information-voters

 

We are so fucked.

Quote

“None of them really like Trump, but they don’t have much love for Democratic politicians, Republican politicians, and especially the media, which they don’t trust at all,” Favreau said. “They really do see Trump as part of a broader political media culture that’s just out of control, silly, nasty, and not focused on what they care about.” A theme that surfaced again and again, not just about Democrats but about politics generally, was that the whole process is confusing, tedious, and off-putting—and that news organizations and social media do little to make sense of it. “I don’t understand it. I haven’t even watched the news. I just turn it off and go do something else,” said Angela from Philadelphia, a Medicaid-dependent mother of an autistic child who said she was raised Democrat but no longer follows elections closely, despite voting in 2018. “What they need to do is have an ‘understanding class’ with those who don't understand, so they can get a better election going on. Because I would love to be in politics just to see what’s going on, but as I see it now, I want no parts of it.”

 

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I do. You just don't like it.

Here's what the CBO thinks would happen: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

It's amazing what minimum wage laws do for low wage earners.

On the basis of those effects and CBO’s estimate of the median effect on employment, the $15 option would reduce total real (inflation-adjusted) family income in 2025 by $9 billion.

Amazing indeed.

Edited by JBJ
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

We are so fucked.

 

This isn't new.  Americans hate Washington, Politics and specifically Congress.  It's gotten worse.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/14/arnold-schwarzenegger/congress-really-less-popular-hemorrhoids-and-herpe/

 

"Here are some of the things that are more popular than Congress: hemorrhoids, Nickelback, traffic jams, cockroaches, root canals, colonoscopies, herpes. Even herpes, they couldn’t beat herpes in the polls."

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18659

Posted
Posted
Just now, Incredulity said:

This isn't new.  Americans hate Washington, Politics and specifically Congress.  It's gotten worse.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/14/arnold-schwarzenegger/congress-really-less-popular-hemorrhoids-and-herpe/

 

"Here are some of the things that are more popular than Congress: hemorrhoids, Nickelback, traffic jams, cockroaches, root canals, colonoscopies, herpes. Even herpes, they couldn’t beat herpes in the polls."

They hate Congress, but they love their own representatives.

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What about the other options? Did you see those?

$12: Like the $15 option, this option would boost wages, but it would also increase joblessness, reduce business income, raise prices, and lower total output in the economy. On balance, real family income in 2025 would fall by $1 billion, 

$10: Real annual family income would again be affected by changes in earnings, business income, and prices. On balance, the $10 option would reduce real family income in 2025 by less than $0.1 billion

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18659

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

$12: Like the $15 option, this option would boost wages, but it would also increase joblessness, reduce business income, raise prices, and lower total output in the economy. On balance, real family income in 2025 would fall by $1 billion, 

$10: Real annual family income would again be affected by changes in earnings, business income, and prices. On balance, the $10 option would reduce real family income in 2025 by less than $0.1 billion

And wages? What happens to wages?

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

And what percentage is that?

Couldn't say, but it's pretty much every single corporate employee, most small to medium company employees, and millions of self employed individuals.  Mine has been up 20-25% since 2012.

 The stock market is more embedded in our economy than you may want to admit.  Stocks thru Retirement plans fuel peoples economic lives after retirement, so I'm all for a roaring DOW and NASDAQ.

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F250

F250 28690

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


The ship has sailed. I don’t want a benevolent dictator. I want a throat-slitting motherfucker. New rules, time to play under them.

Nah, that's how people like Stalin rise to power. I'll rule with kindness unless anyone attempts to interfere with my right to Prima Nocta in which case they will be exiled to...

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104626

Posted
Posted
Just now, F250 said:

Nah, that's how people like Stalin rise to power. I'll rule with kindness unless anyone attempts to interfere with my right to Prima Nocta in which case they will be exiled to...

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The autocrat ship has sailed - there are no checks on executive power.  Now, the only choice is to pick your autocrat.  And being that this is a street fight, fuck this bullshit of picking someone who will fight under Marquess of Queensberry rules.  

Prima Nocta is just another privilege of the autocrat.  Why, you'll be able to grab women by the pussy!  That''s acceptable presidential conduct now -- a winner is you!

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F250

F250 28690

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The autocrat ship has sailed - there are no checks on executive power.  Now, the only choice is to pick your autocrat.  And being that this is a street fight, fuck this bullshit of picking someone who will fight under Marquess of Queensberry rules.  

Prima Nocta is just another privilege of the autocrat.  Why, you'll be able to grab women by the pussy!  That''s acceptable presidential conduct now -- a winner is you!

You need to switch to decaf.

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CowboyFred

CowboyFred 1151

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

It decreased because we are in the process of making China bend the knee.  That is a good thing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/business/economy/trade-war-tariffs.html

 

ahhh yes bending the knee but Chinese tariffs are passing the costs to the US consumer...THAT WILL SHOW THEM!!!!

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Captainant

Captainant 27464

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Thanks, meaning it's probably a bit higher, as many who own stocks thru retirement programs may not actually be aware that stocks are part of it..

However, the upper percentiles own the vast majority of stocks. In 2017, the top 10% owned more than 80% of all the stock in the US. So sure, lots of folks may hold a few grand here or there in stocks and 401k's, but they're not really getting the same benefit as the ultra-wealthy.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Captainant said:

However, the upper percentiles own the vast majority of stocks. In 2017, the top 10% owned more than 80% of all the stock in the US. So sure, lots of folks may hold a few grand here or there in stocks and 401k's, but they're not really getting the same benefit as the ultra-wealthy.

Oh, you and your "facts".

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Captainant said:

However, the upper percentiles own the vast majority of stocks. In 2017, the top 10% owned more than 80% of all the stock in the US. So sure, lots of folks may hold a few grand here or there in stocks and 401k's, but they're not really getting the same benefit as the ultra-wealthy.

I don't argue that the uber wealthy own a majority of the market, but your mom and dad are probably invested in it, and it will drive their retirement comfort or discomfort.  

I don't agree with your comment it's only a few grand.  My SEP is supported by a mutual fund made up of a majority of stocks it's not just a few grand in value.

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Captainant

Captainant 27464

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I don't argue that the uber wealthy own a majority of the market, but your mom and dad are probably invested in it, and it will drive their retirement comfort or discomfort.  

I don't agree with your comment it's only a few grand.  My SEP is supported by a mutual fund made up of a majority of stocks it's not just a few grand in value.

Congrats to you. My parents aren't so lucky due to a combination of being reset to zero by WorldComm, an unusually early diagnosis of Parkinson's disease, and being lower-middle class my entire life in terms of finances and income. 

There's LOTS of folks in the country that don't contribute to their retirement fund, they have too many costs to cover now to worry about the future. See: prior conversation about wages and galaxy-brain congratulations for increasing pay from $10.50 to $11/hr as if that makes anything more livable when rent, healthcare, and childcare costs are going through the roof faster than pay is increasing.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
Just now, Captainant said:

Congrats to you. My parents aren't so lucky due to a combination of being reset to zero by WorldComm, an unusually early diagnosis of Parkinson's disease, and being lower-middle class my entire life in terms of finances and income. 

There's LOTS of folks in the country that don't contribute to their retirement fund, they have too many costs to cover now to worry about the future. See: prior conversation about wages and galaxy-brain congratulations for increasing pay from $10.50 to $11/hr as if that makes anything more livable when rent, healthcare, and childcare costs are going through the roof faster than pay is increasing.

I don't presume to think everyone has the benefit of a retirement plan. I raided mine (wiped it out pretty much) in 2008 to keep from losing our home, and being able to get our daughter into college. It's only in the last few years that it's recovering, and its because the stock market, and our economy are strong.  

Class warfare thru people having stocks, and those who don't isn't a hill to die on for anyone.  It's in our best interests now and in the  future as a nation to have a robust market.

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Captainant

Captainant 27464

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I don't presume to think everyone has the benefit of a retirement plan. I raided mine (wiped it out pretty much) in 2008 to keep from losing our home, and being able to get our daughter into college. It's only in the last few years that it's recovering, and its because the stock market, and our economy are strong.  

Class warfare thru people having stocks, and those who don't isn't a hill to die on for anyone.  It's in our best interests now and in the  future as a nation to have a robust market.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're able to completely rebuild your entire retirement portfolio in only a few years, then you probably lack the understanding of what it's like to actually struggle financially with no clear path to smooth sailing. Fuck, you were even able to pay for your daughter's college in the middle of the biggest financial meltdown in living memory!

The rest of us poor schmucks who only have our bootstraps to help us get to shoulder a near-mortgage level of debt just for our education, THEN we get to start investing. There's such an outrageous opportunity cost to even have a chance to improve your place in the world, without generational wealth backing you, you're pretty well fucked.

I don't really know where I'm going, but I think you're VASTLY overstating the real benefit of a "strong economy" to a median person in the US.

Sure, you may get some stocks from your employer - but guess what - they're part of your total compensation and are really just a way for your employer to shift payroll tax burden off their books and onto yours. Sure you may pay into a 401k, but if you're just getting started then that money doesn't really exist since you can't touch it for decades without stiff penalties. 

When the economy does good, your employer (probably) does good. But you don't get dick extra. Hell, they may even have layoffs after record profits just to push even higher dividends to shareholders so the top bananas can get a bigger bonus.

A good economy has privatized benefits. A bad economy has socialized penalties. See: trump tax cuts and the 2008 crash for object examples.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Captainant said:

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're able to completely rebuild your entire retirement portfolio in only a few years, then you probably lack the understanding of what it's like to actually struggle financially with no clear path to smooth sailing. Fuck, you were even able to pay for your daughter's college in the middle of the biggest financial meltdown in living memory!

The rest of us poor schmucks who only have our bootstraps to help us get to shoulder a near-mortgage level of debt just for our education, THEN we get to start investing. There's such an outrageous opportunity cost to even have a chance to improve your place in the world, without generational wealth backing you, you're pretty well fucked.

I don't really know where I'm going, but I think you're VASTLY overstating the real benefit of a "strong economy" to a median person in the US.

Sure, you may get some stocks from your employer - but guess what - they're part of your total compensation and are really just a way for your employer to shift payroll tax burden off their books and onto yours. Sure you may pay into a 401k, but if you're just getting started then that money doesn't really exist since you can't touch it for decades without stiff penalties. 

When the economy does good, your employer (probably) does good. But you don't get dick extra. Hell, they may even have layoffs after record profits just to push even higher dividends to shareholders so the top bananas can get a bigger bonus.

A good economy has privatized benefits. A bad economy has socialized penalties. See: trump tax cuts and the 2008 crash for object examples.

Wrong.  I'm a self employed, sole practitioning, architect. I put as much as I can afford to into my SEP when I can.  I am not an investment expert by any stretch of the imagination, or even a good businessman for that matter.  I have a wife who works, and contributes to hers as well. We are by no means wealthy.

And no I did not pay for my daughters college. I made an initial payment, and her state school bursar put together 2 additional years of tuition thru grants, scholarships, low interest loans (because my wife was persistent, and our daughter is damn smart).   Then we had to take additional loans for her final year.  Thank God our son got a mostly full ride scholarship from the Air Force or we'd never recover.

You can stop any time with the I'm a rich guy BS, I'm far from it.  My re built retirement will NOT carry me thru my retirement alone , nor will my wifes.  They will hopefully allow us to at least cover expenses going forward, living relatively comfortable, along with whatever we get in SS.

You are vastly understating the importance of a healthy economy, and I can't fathom how someone can be so ignorant of that fact.  There's a reason why this country attracts so many from so many other countries.   PRO TIP:  It ain't the food.

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F250

F250 28690

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Thanks, meaning it's probably a bit higher, as many who own stocks thru retirement programs may not actually be aware that stocks are part of it..

Are retirement programs even relevant to the discussion of a currently strong stock market?

I mean, if you are the age of the average Surly poster you are not touching a 401K anytime soon. Those unfortunate 60 year olds who didn't have a properly allocated 401K in 2008 were not going to be around long enough recoup their losses. Anyone right now who's 401K is heavily benefiting from a strong stock market shouldn't be near retirement unless you like playing with fire.

 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, F250 said:

Are retirement programs even relevant to the discussion of a currently strong stock market?

I mean, if you are the age of the average Surly poster you are not touching a 401K anytime soon. Those unfortunate 60 year olds who didn't have a properly allocated 401K in 2008 were not going to be around long enough recoup their losses. Anyone right now who's 401K is heavily benefiting from a strong stock market shouldn't be near retirement unless you like playing with fire.

 

It doesn't  matter who you are. People try to say the say market isn't being utilized by a majority of the population, its a rich mans play thing. It's being used by at least half the work force, and probably a bit higher than that.  We saw that in a post above, 54% at least.

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