Bernie Madoff

[Gil Bang 25921]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/business/bernie-madoff-prison-release-request/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2020-02-05T23%3A30%3A10&utm_term=link

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Ebbers got released, too, and promptly died.  I'm fine with this.  Incarceration of the old and dying serves no purpose.

[Dbeasy 15042]

Let him out 30 minutes before he expires.

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

Thread title is a little nondescript. Maybe "WTF is going on with Bernie Madoff" would help people understand if they should click or not.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

Bernie madoff talk no going away 2020

[Player 4575]

If he’s currently refusing dialysis and has been alleging that he’s suffering from stage 4 kidney disease since 2014, then that casts enough doubt for me to say he should stay right where he is.

Take your dialysis and submit to an independent medical exam, and I might be persuaded to reconsider.

[tx 3 putt 76873]

Let him die in his prison cell 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

5 minutes ago, Player said:

If he’s currently refusing dialysis and has been alleging that he’s suffering from stage 4 kidney disease since 2014, then that casts enough doubt for me to say he should stay right where he is.

Take your dialysis and submit to an independent medical exam, and I might be persuaded to reconsider.

His diagnosis and prognosis is established by the BOP.  He's not subject to "independent medical exam."  End-stage renal disease is a step beyond Stage 4.  I suppose if he's released, he shouldn't be allowed to start dialysis.

[Dennis Taylor 18809]

[El Diablo 4232]

He can't die yet, he was sentenced to 150 years in prison. 

[Updawg 2266]

Fuck him, he screwed so many people. If he doesn't want the prison healthcare system, oh well. He made his bed.

[Updawg 2266]

Ebbers got released, too, and promptly died.  I'm fine with this.  Incarceration of the old and dying serves no purpose.

I generally agree with this. But this guy fucked over a lot of people. He deserves to stay in

[Player 4575]

51 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

His diagnosis and prognosis is established by the BOP.  He's not subject to "independent medical exam."  End-stage renal disease is a step beyond Stage 4.  I suppose if he's released, he shouldn't be allowed to start dialysis.

I think justice is better served by leaving him where he is, making reasonable medical care available to him, and letting nature take its course. 

Dying alone in prison without all of the comforts that his remaining wealth might provide if he were granted "compassionate release" might serve as a deterrent to others. 

[StruggleBus 3922]

Let him go but make him move to Oklahoma 

[Neonmoon 38129]

[DaggerHorns 3082]

1 hour ago, StruggleBus said:

Let him go but make him move to Oklahoma 

You masochist sicko fuck!

[TwiceHorn 31440]

1 hour ago, Player said:

I think justice is better served by leaving him where he is, making reasonable medical care available to him, and letting nature take its course. 

Dying alone in prison without all of the comforts that his remaining wealth might provide if he were granted "compassionate release" might serve as a deterrent to others. 

I suppose I can buy a value judgment that he should remain imprisoned.

I do not buy the deterrent effect.  People like Madoff aren't deterred, they think they won't be caught.  Whether they die in prison or at home has little or no bearing on that.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

Let him go but make him move to Oklahoma 

You gotta problem with the 8th amendment brah?

[StruggleBus 3922]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

 

You gotta problem with the 8th amendment brah?

 

No, I’m fine with women voting 

[BrickHorn 18216]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ebbers got released, too, and promptly died.  I'm fine with this.  Incarceration of the old and dying serves no purpose.

I disagree.  It has a deterrent effect.

[Updawg 2266]

I suppose I can buy a value judgment that he should remain imprisoned.
I do not buy the deterrent effect.  People like Madoff aren't deterred, they think they won't be caught.  Whether they die in prison or at home has little or no bearing on that.

I get you, but a lot of poor people die every day in prison for less reason than him in my opinion

Maybe not the best argument. Hell, I had more sympathy for aaraon Hernandez.

[RollLeft 5040]

Fuck you Bernie.  

[tx 3 putt 76873]

His hbo movie was pretty good 

[Wally Fairway 5541]

yeah, I'm pretty much in the "fuck that guy" group {needs to check my 2020 celebrity deathwatch list}

[Huckleberry 32848]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suppose I can buy a value judgment that he should remain imprisoned.

I do not buy the deterrent effect.  People like Madoff aren't deterred, they think they won't be caught.  Whether they die in prison or at home has little or no bearing on that.

Hmm. I would think Ponzi scheme operators would be different than most financial criminals in that respect. Everyone knows that every Ponzi scheme eventually collapses. The gamble would seem to be not that you won't get caught, but that you will bail before you get caught. Getting caught has to be part of the calculus, right? 

[Guest Lobo]

I will still never understand, how gossiping traders on Wall Street never noticed that none of them had Bernie's firm trading through them with active tickets.  These guys are the epitome of the wanna-be cool kids table in high school cafeterias and none of them ever noticed, "Yeah, it sucks...we'd love to have some Bernie's shop trading through us."  And of course due to egos, everybody else in the bar said the same thing.  But you'd think after that many years, those egos would finally ask, "I get it, he's not using us.  But who's he using?  Would love to find out their secret sauce."  I realize the technology and law enforcement wasn't there yet at the time, and complacency and greed led the investors not to ask questions or demand proper reporting, but how did all those traders and third-party counterparts never wonder, 'Hey, who actually clears these billions every quarter'?"  

And you can't say greed.  Because greed is precisely what would leave traders to actively inquire about who was pushing these buy-sale orders through.  They'd want to know so they could either bad mouth them to get the new business or they'd try to pony up pari passou with these shops.  That's the last mystery about him.  IMO, anyway...

Edited February 6, 2020 by Lobo

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

This man single handedly destroyed thousands upon thousands of peoples lives.   I'm sure people died prematurely as a result of his embezzlement scheme. Rot in hell sir.  Let God (if there is one) sort out his forgiveness.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

14 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

I disagree.  It has a deterrent effect.

Hmm.  A ponzi schemer says, welp, if I get caught, I'll go to prison, but at least I won't die there?  LETS DO IT!

[TwiceHorn 31440]

31 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Hmm. I would think Ponzi scheme operators would be different than most financial criminals in that respect. Everyone knows that every Ponzi scheme eventually collapses. The gamble would seem to be not that you won't get caught, but that you will bail before you get caught. Getting caught has to be part of the calculus, right? 

I think the tendency with Ponzi schemers is that they divert funds to personal use, pay dividends from investments, see how easy it is and then the thing rapidly grows out of control.  At some point, yeah, they probably figure that they'll get caught, but the crime is nearly complete.  The prospect of apprehension and punishment had no deterrent effect at that point.

Nonetheless, as with the post above, I don't think the (un)availability of compassionate release figures heavily into their calculation.

 

People are just straining to find a reason to indulge bloodlust without acknowledging it.

Edited February 6, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[HouTex 1866]

Not to diminish his crime or to argue for an early release, but the latest report I could fund is that the litigation trustee has so far distributed 76% of the amounts lost by investors. He’s done that by suing those earlier investors that made a profit as well as other investment companies and financial institutions that dealt with Madoff. No doubt many of the victims quickly sold their claims to claims traders at very low amounts just happy to get anything, and those traders have done very well.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

3 minutes ago, HouTex said:

Not to diminish his crime or to argue for an early release, but the latest report I could fund is that the litigation trustee has so far distributed 76% of the amounts lost by investors. He’s done that by suing those earlier investors that made a profit as well as other investment companies and financial institutions that dealt with Madoff. No doubt many of the victims quickly sold their claims to claims traders at very low amounts just happy to get anything, and those traders have done very well.

Yeah, that's amazing good work by that trustee.

[HouTex 1866]

Yeah, that's amazing good work by that trustee.

I agree. That said, many of the claims he made were no brainers. There’s a lot of case law on claims against the winners (i.e. those who are net in the money—even innocently) in a Ponzi scheme.

[XYZ 2154]

Meanwhile, Jon Corzine stole $1.2 billion and never saw the inside of a prison cell, because he’s well connected. Three years ago he settled with the CFTC for $5 million, or 0.4% of what he stole. Pretty cool.

[Updawg 2266]

Meanwhile, Jon Corzine stole $1.2 billion and never saw the inside of a prison cell, because he’s well connected. Three years ago he settled with the CFTC for $5 million, or 0.4% of what he stole. Pretty cool.

I remember reading about that. Pretty fucked up

[TwiceHorn 31440]

14 minutes ago, HouTex said:

I agree. That said, many of the claims he made were no brainers. There’s a lot of case law on claims against the winners (i.e. those who are net in the money—even innocently) in a Ponzi scheme.

Oh yeah.  Even so, you don't see that success rate too often.  The "local" Stanford receivership has collected a tiny fraction of that.  And I think the Madoff percentage is net of legal fees, to boot.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

amicus filed by bobby bo, no doubt.

[mulletpelini 5210]

I thought this mfer was already dead.

[XYZ 2154]

1 hour ago, mulletpelini said:

I thought this mfer was already dead.

I think his son died.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

2 minutes ago, XYZ said:

I think his son died.

Both of em.  One by suicide other by cancer.

[jdhorn92 1545]

8 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

This man single handedly destroyed thousands upon thousands of peoples lives.   I'm sure people died prematurely as a result of his embezzlement scheme. Rot in hell sir.  Let God (if there is one) sort out his forgiveness.

He got Kevin Bacon and that chick of his, lost thousands, consequently millions.

[tx 3 putt 76873]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Both of em.  One by suicide other by cancer.

That’s a shame gif 

[Willfully Horn 8002]

Bernie Madoff died. Natural causes.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/14/bernie-madoff-dies-mastermind-of-the-nations-biggest-investment-fraud-was-82.html

Edited April 14, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Link

[tx 3 putt 76873]

[RollLeft 5040]

On 2/6/2020 at 7:35 PM, mulletpelini said:

I thought this mfer was already dead.

 

[Bender Bending Rodriguez 1678]

He only served 12 years of a 150 year sentence!