FBI vs. NCAA Coaches

[Beau Vine 54287]

46 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The report specifically discusses the fact that the NCAA doesn't control that rule and what their recommendation will be if the NBA does not change that rule.

Come on, man, the chance of the NBA changing that rule would about as high as the chance of Kate Upton showing up at my front door begging me to sex her.

It's idiotic to consider that possibility. 

That rule has been wonderful for the NBA.  It guarantees them a completely free minor league that they can use to evaluate draftees.  They no longer have to risk wasting high draft picks on guys like Kwame Brown and Jonathon Bender.  They're not going to give this up.   They made significant concessions to the NBAPA to get this rule, and that's not going to undo itself just because the NCAA wants it to.

It's idiotic to put that in the report because it's not going to happen.  Assume it's not going to happen, and make a recommendation reflecting that.

[Beau Vine 54287]

42 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

 

To me, it is comical that they even put that in there.  To put it in there as the first change that needs to be made just shows that this report is there to blame others for the failings of the NCAA and to distract from the real issue that players should be allowed to use their skill set to make money

Bingo.

[Beau Vine 54287]

52 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

 

How long has it been since colleges had JV teams? Just go back to that.

Lol.  Yeah, that's going to happen.  

 

Look, Sonny Vaccaro predicted this a long time ago, even before this testimony:

Quote

In 2001, while working for Adidas, Vaccaro was invited to testify before the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, a group that sought to keep commercialism out of college sports. “Why should a university be an advertising medium for your industry?” Bryce Jordan, the president emeritus of Penn State, said. “They shouldn’t, sir,” Vaccaro replied, according to the historian Taylor Branch. “You can be very moral and righteous in asking me that question, sir, but there’s not one of you in this room that’s going to turn down any of our money. You’re going to take it. I can only offer it.”

If you're trying to figure out what's going to happen, "Follow the money" is never bad advice.

The NCAA men's basketball tournament is the cash cow for Mark Emmert and his crew.  The conferences have hijacked football, and none of the other sport tournaments make big money.  So the people in charge are almost entirely reliant on its cash flow to fund their huge salaries, and they aren't going to do anything to jeopardize that.  

Condi Rice is a long-time friend of the people who run the NCAA.  It's no surprise that she was named to head this committee, even though she had basically zero ties to college basketball.  Someone like Jay Bilas would be much more qualified, but hell, there's no way the NCAA would do that.  

[rickyspub 801]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

The NBA loves having a free minor league, which is what the NCAA is.  It lets them more confidently assess who is ready to play NBA ball, which drastically reduces the risk of committing a high draft pick and millions of dollars to a teenager.  

What's their motivation for "getting on the same page" with the NCAA?

 

As far as the one-and-done, that overwhelmingly benefits the NCAA blue bloods and the P5 conferences.  If you require freshmen to sit out (which probably would drive the best players to Europe or wherever), that's going to hurt those schools.  And those schools are the ones that call the shots.  So that's not going to happen, either.  

Silver has talked about making HSers draft eligible a few times in the past couple of years from what I remember, so I get the sense they are at least keeping the idea on the table.

There are several motivations for the NBA to let HS back into the draft. First, college basketball isn't a great minor league, but then I guess you get what you don't pay for. Most pro-sports people think they are the smartest guy in the room and I am sure they often wish they had gotten a player in their system a year earlier rather than watching a guy waste year with NCAA-limits on practice time and potentially suspect or ill-fit coaching.  Adding HSers would also put more untapped 1st round talent into the pool. I imagine there are people in the better organizations that would love to apply their better scouting skills to get these guys before they show out on the small stage and watch them go to weaker teams who might have missed a player's value coming out of HS. I have no clue if any of these are really compelling, but I could definitely see teams wanting to put their scouts up against the rest of the league's.

The reason for mentioning the idea of not allowing freshman to play, was to note that the NCAA has little pressure they can bring to bear. Giving lifetime bans to cheating coaches is even less likely to get implemented because they are even more important to a school than a one-and-done. Their biggest threat is probably engaging in more preemptive banning of players accused of being on the take. There are only a few blue bloods and the rest of the P5 could push for more crack downs in hopes of leveling the playing field. That wouldn't require any rule changes either.

[Jhawk 1075]

If you look at everything the NBA is doing with the G-League I think you have to say they are preparing to repeal OAD.  I would expect the rules on 2 way contracts to expand and for the G-League draft to change a little.  I could see a situation where the g-league draft is abolished and the NBA draft expanded by a round.  Anyone not picked above some arbitrary position (lottery?) is automatically given a 2 way contract.  Then you'll have top talent taken first (mix of HS and blossoming college players), then probably solid college contributors, and finally the end of the draft would probably have ultra raw players that have great athleticism/size who are picked last and shuffled directly into the GL so they can develop and have their rights secured during development.

[Beau Vine 54287]

Ricky, I don't agree with much of what you said, but that's just purely opinion vs opinion, and I don't think either of us has actual facts on our sides relative to what you said.

I will say that Adam Silver can say what he wants to say, but he works for the owners, and a rule change would be a result of negotiations between the owners and the NBAPA.

The "one-year" rule was established through collective bargaining between the owners and the PA, and the owners gave up significant concessions to get the NBAPA to agree.  I don't think the owners would drop that rule without a return of at least part of those concessions (just out of principle/stubbornness), and I can't imagine the PA agreeing to that.

Regardless, the current NBA CBA doesn't expire until 2024, so nothing's going to happen for six years, which makes it even more ridiculous that Condi's report led off with that contingency.

 

 

[Beau Vine 54287]

9 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

If you look at everything the NBA is doing with the G-League I think you have to say they are preparing to repeal OAD.  I would expect the rules on 2 way contracts to expand and for the G-League draft to change a little.  I could see a situation where the g-league draft is abolished and the NBA draft expanded by a round.  Anyone not picked above some arbitrary position (lottery?) is automatically given a 2 way contract.  Then you'll have top talent taken first (mix of HS and blossoming college players), then probably solid college contributors, and finally the end of the draft would probably have ultra raw players that have great athleticism/size who are picked last and shuffled directly into the GL so they can develop and have their rights secured during development.

The problem is that the repealing OAD and expanding the G-league doesn't actually reduce the big risk for NBA franchises.

The big risk is wasting a high draft pick and a lot of money on the guys who were dominators in high school but couldn't hack it against bigger more talented competition (Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry).  If you force those guys to play a year in college, then they'll get exposed, and franchises wouldn't draft them as high and waste a bunch of money on them.  

If they're expanding the G-league, it's to be an alternative to college -- they're not doing it to replace the current rule and allow guys to get drafted straight out of high school.  They're not repealing OAD -- they're offering another place where HS grads can play against better competition so that they can get a more confident scouting report.

 

Personally, I think they're investing in the G-league to develop the marginal players, late 1st-rounders and 2nd-rounders who would previously spend years sitting on the end of the bench or going overseas where they have no control over them.  

[rickyspub 801]

53 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Ricky, I don't agree with much of what you said, but that's just purely opinion vs opinion, and I don't think either of us has actual facts on our sides relative to what you said.

I will say that Adam Silver can say what he wants to say, but he works for the owners, and a rule change would be a result of negotiations between the owners and the NBAPA.

The "one-year" rule was established through collective bargaining between the owners and the PA, and the owners gave up significant concessions to get the NBAPA to agree.  I don't think the owners would drop that rule without a return of at least part of those concessions (just out of principle/stubbornness), and I can't imagine the PA agreeing to that.

Regardless, the current NBA CBA doesn't expire until 2024, so nothing's going to happen for six years, which makes it even more ridiculous that Condi's report led off with that contingency.

 

 

No doubt there is some wishful thinking on my part. But I also figure Silver isn't just going to say whatever he pleases, but will say what pleases his masters. Of course talking up revisiting that rule now could be laying the groundwork for it being a bargaining piece against the NBAPA in the future.

[Beau Vine 54287]

27 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

No doubt there is some wishful thinking on my part. But I also figure Silver isn't just going to say whatever he pleases, but will say what pleases his masters. Of course talking up revisiting that rule now could be laying the groundwork for it being a bargaining piece against the NBAPA in the future.

I can't imagine it being anything more than that.  Like I said, that rule has dramatically reduced draft risks for owners.  They're not giving that up just to altruistically benefit the NCAA.

[rickyspub 801]

9 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Like I said, that rule has dramatically reduced draft risks for owners.

Is there empirical evidence that backs this up? I have to admit I don't follow the NBA much anymore, but it still seems like there are a lot of highly drafted players that are deemed 'busts' every year. 

[Michael Knight 12989]

4 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

Is there empirical evidence that backs this up? I have to admit I don't follow the NBA much anymore, but it still seems like there are a lot of highly drafted players that are deemed 'busts' every year. 

take a look at how bad some of those drafts were, for every lebron theres 6 darius miles korleone youngs and kwame browns

[rickyspub 801]

33 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

take a look at how bad some of those drafts were, for every lebron theres 6 darius miles korleone youngs and kwame browns

I honestly couldn't go through any recent drafts and tell you which guys were complete busts, so I'll leave it for people who follow the NBA. Though I did read an article about an Eastern European phenom that is supposed to be a lottery pick this year. The article said that some NBA execs were still talking about not taking EE guys because of Darko Milicic! The article then noted a handful of successful EE guys in the NBA since then. It makes me wonder if the number of busts for any particular group is over inflated and the reality is just that some teams are better at identifying and developing talent. Those that fail are the ones who blame high school busts or Eastern European busts for their own lack of ability.

[Craftywidget 9483]

On 4/11/2018 at 11:48 AM, orangeut said:

Billy Preston will probably just tell the NCAA to "let it be".  

That or "get back".

[Beau Vine 54287]

37 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

I honestly couldn't go through any recent drafts and tell you which guys were complete busts, so I'll leave it for people who follow the NBA. Though I did read an article about an Eastern European phenom that is supposed to be a lottery pick this year. The article said that some NBA execs were still talking about not taking EE guys because of Darko Milicic! The article then noted a handful of successful EE guys in the NBA since then. It makes me wonder if the number of busts for any particular group is over inflated and the reality is just that some teams are better at identifying and developing talent. Those that fail are the ones who blame high school busts or Eastern European busts for their own lack of ability.

If the NBA owners could get away with it, they'd put in a rule that says that everyone, even these European guys, has to play one year in college.  That's their free minor league that allows them to more accurately assess each draftee's skill.

The Spurs and other smarter teams wouldn't like it, but getting to see someone play a year of college ball to get an accurate and easy frame of reference of their ability dramatically reduces the risk of spending a high draft pick on that guy. 

 

Of course, the Spurs are usually picking late in the draft, so if they whiff on an EE guy or a HS guy, it's not that big of a deal.  The problem is spending a very high draft pick and millions of dollars on someone like Eddy Curry or Bargnani.

 

(And for the record, I'd love to see no restrictions on the draft.  I love seeing some teams having to take risks and having it possibly blow up in their faces.  But that's what the NBA owners hate.)

 

[Jhawk 1075]

Report by 247sports out today saying that Romeo Langford (KU recruit that chose Indiana) was steered to IU by...... ADIDAS!  Both KU and IU are adidas schools so it is odd that they would interject but damn.  Literally in the middle of the FBI and NCAA investigations and this shit is still happening.

Adidas sponsored a team that Langford played on.  They sent money to a PO box that was owned by a foundation that langford's father and older sister are the directors of.  This was a under-17 team.  Once he was too old to play on that team they folded the team.

Why is the NCAA even bothering with this shit?  Nothing done in this manner is illegal unless you are the NCAA and didn't get your cut.

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Adidas-reportedly-steered-recruitment-of-five-star-Indiana-basketball-signee-Romeo-Langford-118274994

Spoiler

Adidas may have helped to steer the recruitment of five-star shooting guard and recent Indiana signee Romeo Langford, according to Will Hobson of the Washington Post.

Hobson, who quoted former Louisville coach Rick Pitino — the Cardinals were considered the favorite to land Langford’s services before Louisville’s mention in court documents related to the FBI’s case against corruption in college basketball — along with anonymous Adidas sources, wrote that the apparel company influenced his college choice.

“As the crowd cheered [after Langford’s announcement], Langford’s father, Tim, stood behind him, waving a red arm sleeve that featured the three-stripe logo for Adidas,” Hobson wrote. “It was a fitting gesture because, according to former Louisville coach Rick Pitino and three people in the apparel company’s youth basketball division, Adidas played a crucial role in giving its sponsored college teams — which include Indiana, Kansas and Louisville — a lift over the competition in Romeo Langford’s recruitment.”

Indiana and Kansas made up two of Romeo Langford’s three finalists, along with Vanderbilt, a Nike school. But Pitino said the relationship with Adidas was formed long before then, with Pitino reportedly meeting with Adidas officials in January 2017 to discuss how to keep Langford from joining Nike and Under Armour, with Pitino also sharing text messages about the meeting with the Post.

“The way they phrased it, it was whoever [shoe company] was going to pay the dad’s AAU program the most money, gets it,” Pitino said.

According to the Post, Adidas’ summer league added a new team, Twenty Two Vision, a few days later, named after Langford’s favorite number before high school. Romeo Langford played for the team, while Tim was the team director.

“Shoe company sponsorships can reach $100,000 to $150,000, and team directors who limit expenses can pay themselves salaries from that amount,” Hobson wrote.

“That’s the way the world works,” Pitino said. “Which is completely legal, by the way.”

Tim told The Post that he didn’t take any pay and pointed out that Nike programs Kentucky, Duke and Vanderbilt, along with Under Armour’s UCLA, were also major players in Langford’s recruitment.

“It wasn’t about money for us. Our son … his time will come if he stays blessed and stays healthy,” Tim said.

But after Tim told The Post that Jonathan Jeanty, a friend and trainer, handled the finances for Twenty Two Vision and “offered to connect a reporter” with him, The Post reported that “neither Tim Langford nor Jeanty has replied to numerous phone calls, text messages and emails since. Officials with Adidas, Nike and Under Armour declined to comment.”

Pitino said that Adidas was involved with Langford in early 2016, as he texted with Adidas global marketing director Jim Gatto with concerns about another Adidas official pushing UCLA — the Bruins swapped to Under Armour a few months later. Gatto, who currently faces charges as part of the FBI’s case, replied that he would check on it.

And after playing that summer for Eric Gordon’s EG10 team, Langford became a hot target that next winter. Pitino said he met with Gatto and Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola in January 2017 to discuss Langford.

“They knew that Nike and Under Armour were going to make a run for him,” Pitino said. “I didn’t want him going to Nike or Under Armor … because then, he would’ve gone to Kentucky or somewhere else. … I would’ve had no chance.”

Pitino said neither executive discussed illicit payments, but instead funding for Langford’s new team.

“Gassnola and Gatto both knew if they ever mentioned anything illegal with me, paying a kid, that would be the end of the conversation, and Adidas would no longer represent the University of Louisville,” Pitino said.

Twenty Two Vision had just a 17U team that year, rather than a full slate of squads, with Adidas team directors telling The Post that fielding a 17U team last year probably cost between $50,000 and $75,000. The rest of what the team made could be pocketed by the team’s management.

“In his interview with The Post, Tim Langford said Adidas sent the check for Twenty Two Vision to Jeanty, a family friend who set up a nonprofit foundation to take the money,” Hobson wrote. “After offering to connect a reporter to Jeanty, Langford stopped replying to phone calls and text messages. Jeanty has not replied to numerous calls, texts and emails.”

The Post reported that the team’s Facebook page lists a P.O. Box as its address and that the P.O. Box is registered to a nonprofit, the Family United Foundation, with Tim Langford and Romeo Langford’s older sister Tisha Langford listed as the foundation’s directors. The organization has yet to file a financial disclosure form, per the Post.

With Langford headed off to college this summer, Twenty Two Vision didn’t field a team.

Here's the kicker... Rick Pitino was in on Langford before anyone and he is the guy who explains the process to get a croot like langford.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Jhawk

[Huckleberry 33035]

Come on, man, the chance of the NBA changing that rule would about as high as the chance of Kate Upton showing up at my front door begging me to sex her. It's idiotic to consider that possibility. 

That rule has been wonderful for the NBA.  It guarantees them a completely free minor league that they can use to evaluate draftees.  They no longer have to risk wasting high draft picks on guys like Kwame Brown and Jonathon Bender.  They're not going to give this up.   They made significant concessions to the NBAPA to get this rule, and that's not going to undo itself just because the NCAA wants it to.

It's idiotic to put that in the report because it's not going to happen.  Assume it's not going to happen, and make a recommendation reflecting that.

 

Their recommended action if the NBA doesn't change the rule will handle it perfectly from the committee's perspective (freshmen ineligibility). That would send one and done types overseas. 

 

I really get the sense you didn't read the report.

 

 

[Beau Vine 54287]

5 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Their recommended action if the NBA doesn't change the rule will handle it perfectly from the committee's perspective (freshmen ineligibility). That would send one and done types overseas. 

 

That would fall into the category of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as my grandmother used to say.  Having players like Deandre Ayton and Trae Young play is wonderful for the NCAA.  It makes NCAA basketball more interesting, more popular, and most importantly, makes money for the NCAA.  There is no way that the NCAA is going to approve freshman ineligibility.  It's a farce to even suggest it.  

And thanks for your prompt reply.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

On 4/25/2018 at 2:29 PM, Beau Vine said:

Ricky, I don't agree with much of what you said, but that's just purely opinion vs opinion, and I don't think either of us has actual facts on our sides relative to what you said.

I will say that Adam Silver can say what he wants to say, but he works for the owners, and a rule change would be a result of negotiations between the owners and the NBAPA.

The "one-year" rule was established through collective bargaining between the owners and the PA, and the owners gave up significant concessions to get the NBAPA to agree.  I don't think the owners would drop that rule without a return of at least part of those concessions (just out of principle/stubbornness), and I can't imagine the PA agreeing to that.

Regardless, the current NBA CBA doesn't expire until 2024, so nothing's going to happen for six years, which makes it even more ridiculous that Condi's report led off with that contingency.

 

 

THE NBAPA gives 0 fucks about the rule. The owners had to give concessions to get the 1 and done rule in the first place. And now they're going to have to give concessions to make any changes to it. It's simply a negotiating lever from the NBAPA's perspective. 

[Machinator 32099]

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/05/23/fbi-agents-ncaa-basketball-investigation-las-vegas

Apparently one of the FBI agents went rogue...

[Huckleberry 33035]

14 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

That would fall into the category of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as my grandmother used to say.  Having players like Deandre Ayton and Trae Young play is wonderful for the NCAA.  It makes NCAA basketball more interesting, more popular, and most importantly, makes money for the NCAA.  There is no way that the NCAA is going to approve freshman ineligibility.  It's a farce to even suggest it.  

And thanks for your prompt reply.  

I don't disagree that the NCAA lacks the balls to make the change.

Although I do disagree with you that having Ayton and Young makes a significant difference in the game's popularity. If Ayton and Young weren't around then two other guys would have been the two best players in the country while Ayton and Young played in Europe or the D/G League. Hell, Young may have gone to college and then been an actually great basketball player his second year on campus after Kruger decided maybe he should teach Young when it's not okay to volume shoot in his 10th month in the program. College basketball survived just fine without the dozens of high school NBA draft picks ever playing.

Bottom line is that freshmen ineligibility would absolutely force the NBA's hand on doing something about their rule. Or at least force them to improve their developmental league.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Huckleberry

[Jhawk 1075]

Brian Bowen was ruled ineligible for 2018-2019 today by the NCAA.  He decided to stay in the draft even though he isn't projected to be drafted.  

That probably isn't a good thing for players who have been named in the FBI investigation.  I'm not overly concerned about past players at all, but De Sousa is still at KU and losing him would suck.

It will be interesting to hear how the NCAA spreads the punishment.  Bowen got a ton of cash so he is out for 2 years.  What about the guys who got a little cash?  Do they get less punishment?  What about the schools that knew vs. didn't know?  How do they get punished?  Finally, what about the players who have left the schools?

This news says to me that the NCAA is going to try and punish at least the players.  I wouldn't doubt that they go after schools on some level too.  Especially if you are named as complicit.  Bruce Pearl and Sean Miller have to be sweating more than usual.

[Beau Vine 54287]

And Auburn gave Bruce Pearl a contract extension through 2023.

 

That's the most Auburn thing ever.  But I guess the AD had to do it, because there were other schools just dying to hire Bruce Pearl right now.

[Dbeasy 15073]

And Auburn gave Bruce Pearl a contract extension through 2023.
 
That's the most Auburn thing ever.  But I guess the AD had to do it, because there were other schools just dying to hire Bruce Pearl right now.

This pisses me off so much. Eff Auburn.

[Jhawk 1075]

So Zona and auburn are circling the wagons around the coaches. They must feel they have a pretty good case. I think this all points to the idiot that kept the books is going to go down and everyone is going to deny everything and try to pin it all on him being rogue. Bold strategy but the consequences if they lose that fight aren’t any worse than if they just let it play out. 

Trials should be interesting. How the NCAA reacts will either be revolutionary for them or be totally expected and they will say they are going to let this slide since it was rogue agents and they are going to punish hard from now on. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Rick Stansbury lands another 5  star player at wait for it........Western Kentucky. 

It's tough to take the NCAA seriously when coaches like Stansbury aren't punished for blatant cheating. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Jhawk 1075]

Am down in Tulsa for work and ended up having a few drinks with the Tulsa AD, Derrick Gragg.  First off, what a great guy.  He is an AD I would be great with on KU hiring.  He's very smart and very thoughtful with a great pedigree.

I asked him about the FBI stuff and he said he thinks KU is fine.  He thinks the original 4 teams (Miami, UL, Zona, Auburn) are going to be hurting in a couple of years.  He also believes that if a blue blood job comes open Chris Mack is the right hire and that he would jump immediately.  Which I thought was interesting to hear just after Mack jumped into the deep end at UL.

[VolenteHawk 495]

If Pop decides he’s done and Self took the Spurs job, Chris Mack is basically my entire (gettable) list.

 

[kopp0e 1135]

16 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

If Pop decides he’s done and Self took the Spurs job, Chris Mack is basically my entire (gettable) list.

 

Has Self stated an interest in taking the Spurs job if Popovich were to retire..?

[Jhawk 1075]

10 hours ago, kopp0e said:

Has Self stated an interest in taking the Spurs job if Popovich were to retire..?

He hasn't, but RC Buford is his best friend and HCBS's son works in the organization.  Buford and Self were best men in each others' weddings.  On top of that, Self stated last summer that he doesn't think he will coach past age 60, which is when his current contract runs out in 2022.  I also think OKC thunder are a threat to steal him.  Personally, I do believe that if he goes to the NBA he will come back to college if he doesn't have top level success.  That would most likely end with him going to OSU to fade off into the sunset.

After having Roy leave us I don't think there is a fan in the KU base that thinks Self is here to stay forever.  I personally believe he will leave once the big12 streak is over, and maybe sooner since he now has the record.  I'd like to get one more championship out of him and I hope he leaves the program in a way that leaves us whole.  Ideally, he doesn't go anywhere until the heir apparent is so obvious (like he was when he was hired) that we can't miss on the next hire.  I'd hate to go through what UK, UCLA, IU, and UNC all have been through at various times over the last 20-30 years.  We've been so good for so long that I couldn't imagine not making the tourney.

[kopp0e 1135]

2 hours ago, Jhawk said:

He hasn't, but RC Buford is his best friend and HCBS's son works in the organization.  Buford and Self were best men in each others' weddings.  On top of that, Self stated last summer that he doesn't think he will coach past age 60, which is when his current contract runs out in 2022.  I also think OKC thunder are a threat to steal him. 

If Self replaced Donovan, would Westbrook/ George (if still in Oklahoma City) & possibly Anthony even listen to the coach that has no previous NBA coaching..? I'd say yes...

[Jhawk 1075]

2 hours ago, kopp0e said:

If Self replaced Donovan, would Westbrook/ George (if still in Oklahoma City) & possibly Anthony even listen to the coach that has no previous NBA coaching..? I'd say yes...

If self goes to OKC I don't think it is for another 3-4 years when RW is on the decline and there is a massive rebuild where they need to develop players.  That's the only way I see BS having "success" in the NBA.  He would be the coach to develop guys, like a van gundy or thibs.  He wouldn't be the coach to win a ring.  Both have their place in the NBA and both can be great at their respective rolls.  One is a long term solution and the other gets the boot once a star starts to shine and isn't responding to the coach's orders anymore.  Kind of like a Don nelson vs. Phil Jackson.  Phil wasn't developing shit for players and was very successful.  Nelson is also seen as successful but never sniffed a ring.

[VolenteHawk 495]

Yeah, the idea that Self would be a good candidate for a rebuild and the RC Buford relationship is what has always made the Spurs seem like a good fit if/when their window closes and Pop hangs it up, even though they've some kept it perpetually open for the better part of 20 years.

 

[kopp0e 1135]

I think if the Thunder ever choose to rebuild the franchise, having Bill Self could be the best option if the program intends to mostly have a roster of 1 to 5 year NBA rookies & vets..!

The way that Self has kept the machine oiled in Lawrence I am sure hasn't went unnoticed by the prospective employers in the NBA, which leads me to think the Spurs get to him 1st...

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just a matter of time until Kansas is involved in all of this De Sousa mess. 

 

[Jhawk 1075]

There is no doubt we will be tied to the whole deal for a while.  I'm still not worried about it any further than to the extent that Silvio might not be able to play next year.  However, Self and KU have issued multiple statements saying they expect him to be eligible.  I suppose they would say this regardless, but that is the only thing we have to go on.  I'm not sure why the FBI doesn't just cut to the chase and subpoena emails/phone records/bank statements from Silvio's guardian directly.  Seems like the simple way to get around things.  Pressure the guardian with fraud and they'll turn over in a heartbeat.

My opinion at this point is that if we lose him we lose him.  I'd rather lose him now than have this hanging over the season.  The NCAA is notorious for slow playing our guys.  The last thing I want is for him to sit on the bench the entire season hoping he'll be available the next game.

Regarding the NCAA, they better shit or get off the pot soon.  They have a statute of limitations of 4 years  in their bylaws.  That means anyone caught up in this mess in 2015 is on the clock.  If the NCAA doesn't start going after those kids right now then I wouldn't expect anything to happen to guys from that recruiting class or the schools they come from.  Then 2016 guys will be on the clock.  With how long the FBI is taking, and then how long the subsequent NCAA investigations will be, I wouldn't doubt that this thing gets slow played into the closet where it is buried with the other NCAA skeletons.

[Laxtonto 12090]

Looks like Kansas was subpoenaed and is cooperating, but refuses to provide additional information.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/kansas-tacitly-acknowledges-subpoenaed-ongoing-federal-basketball-investigation-142515144.html

[kopp0e 1135]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:42 PM, Jhawk said:

 

To me, it is comical that they even put that in there.  To put it in there as the first change that needs to be made just shows that this report is there to blame others for the failings of the NCAA and to distract from the real issue that players should be allowed to use their skill set to make money

The NCAA hasn't been ran as a functional organization on actually imposing fairness since it lost money from the tv contracts SMU during the death penalty...

[Jhawk 1075]

9 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

Looks like Kansas was subpoenaed and is cooperating, but refuses to provide additional information.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/kansas-tacitly-acknowledges-subpoenaed-ongoing-federal-basketball-investigation-142515144.html

This definitely increases the likelihood of us having a problem.  Hope the FBI doesn't see anything that changes our "victim" status with them.  Forde (MU Alum) had all of the hateful KC media up in arms with this today.  They have it twisted so it sounds like KU is hiding evidence and KC media is loving that.  Forde basically asked KU to comment on an ongoing investigation that KU isn't a target/subject of.  Not exactly outraging that KU didn't comply, especially if the documents are protected via state law.

[kopp0e 1135]

On 6/5/2018 at 11:59 AM, Jhawk said:

So Zona and auburn are circling the wagons around the coaches. They must feel they have a pretty good case. I think this all points to the idiot that kept the books is going to go down and everyone is going to deny everything and try to pin it all on him being rogue. Bold strategy but the consequences if they lose that fight aren’t any worse than if they just let it play out. 

Trials should be interesting. How the NCAA reacts will either be revolutionary for them or be totally expected and they will say they are going to let this slide since it was rogue agents and they are going to punish hard from now on. 

Well, that strategy works most of the time, deny/ deny/ deny, then place blame on an underling...

[texasstrong12 4668]

 

 

[PittsburghTiger 6192]

I’m not sure I get the significance of this action ^

[kopp0e 1135]

4 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I’m not sure I get the significance of this action ^

I think there is a "dead period" in recruiting athletes, and the Cards are found to have violated that...

[Jhawk 1075]

If Bowen was on campus then it would have been a live period.  My guess is the kid either didn't have any official visits left or the arrangement was he would visit but wouldn't use an official visit and wouldn't pay for his own visit and just left it up to UL to figure it out.  Either way, those would definitely be violations.

Is the UL inquiry over?  When do they get punished?  I have to think they are going to get absolutely smoked.

[texasstrong12 4668]

16 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I’m not sure I get the significance of this action ^

Dawkins is a bag man. They wanted Dawkins off the recruiting paperwork because it's obvious he's helping recruits get paid. It's confirmation that Louisville was definitely covering up cheating. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by texasstrong12

[PittsburghTiger 6192]

Ah, that explains it. Dirty as hell.

[Jhawk 1075]

Wait... I read that tweet as Dawkins was a player that committed.  Not that he was a handler that came with Bowen to Bowen's visit.  Dawkins is definitely a bag man.

[kopp0e 1135]

3 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Wait... I read that tweet as Dawkins was a player that committed.  Not that he was a handler that came with Bowen to Bowen's visit.  Dawkins is definitely a bag man.

I think the Cards tried to say that Dawkins was an unaffiliated coach right..?

[Jhawk 1075]

Quote

NEW: U of L coaches worked to keep Christian Dawkins name off recruiting paperwork when he visited campus prior to committing.@WDRBNews http://bit.ly/2POsegg

This tweet makes it sound like Dawkins committed to UL.  Dawkins isn't even a student athlete is he?  I"m getting mixed up in the poor writing on twitter.  That's why I said there is a violation if dawkins was being paid to make an unofficial visit.

Clearly Dawkins is a bag man that was accompanying Bowen.  Now it has been found out that Dawkins was on the visitors list but then scrubbed to make it look like he wasn't involved with the recruitment.  None of that really matters because they have already confirmed through financial statements that dawkins was paying players.  This is just more evidence that Dawkins is a shady character and anyone that worked with him is probably needing to be looked at.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Jhawk

[Beau Vine 54287]

You'd think a big Kansas fan would know that Dawkins is a bag man.

[Jhawk 1075]

Pitino told ESPN that he thinks his coaching career might be over.... Ughhhhh.... Duhhhhhh