NPR story on student loans

[HamsterHookah 112]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:47 PM, MeerkatBong said:

Is we getting $10k in student loan relief or ain't isn't we?

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/10/1135940851/student-debt-relief-biden-blocked-texas-district-court

To quote myself, I guess we will find out soon.

Regardless of the supreme court decision, I read that in May, after 3 YEARS of student loan repayment suspension, good, bad or indifferent, the clock starts back on again.

This is going to be a huge shock to the system as I have to imagine most people have grown accustomed to not having a $xxx monthly payment and have assumed that money for other parts of the budget, especially as things cost more (inflation, rent/housing, etc.) and people make same or less (wage stagnation).

My theory is society got used to not having to service this debt and there will be a rude awakening.

[bernorange 8,362]

So you are saying this will help with disinflation?  /JPow

[HamsterHookah 112]

40 minutes ago, bernorange said:

So you are saying this will help with disinflation?  /JPow

Actually yes. Or defaults through the roof.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

Has the Nebraska AG spoken about why they are opposed to the federal govt forgiving some of the student loans? Does it impact Nebraska directly?

[HamsterHookah 112]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Has the Nebraska AG spoken about why they are opposed to the federal govt forgiving some of the student loans? Does it impact Nebraska directly?

Do you mean Missouri?

Quote

 

Before SCOTUS can issue any ruling on the Biden administration’s constitutional authority to cancel debt, it must first decide if these challengers have standing to sue—i.e., if any of them are specifically harmed by debt cancellation.

So far, lower courts have found that they are. The GOP states have standing thanks to a semi-independent loan servicing company, MOHELA, created by the state of Missouri, a court ruled. Missouri has argued that since MOHELA would lose money if there were fewer loans to service, it would put less money into a state education fund, and the state would be sufficiently harmed. A different court ruled that the two Texas borrowers have standing, as neither fully qualified for forgiveness under the program.

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

Thanks @HamsterHookah It’s America so anyone can attempt a lawsuit with little to no reasoning but indirect financial impact feels like a low bar. If a nearby grocery story shut down that location, I wonder if I could sue them to keep it open because driving to the next closest store is a financial hit to me.

the real villain in this story is congress who are sitting on their hands about college costs. One side talks about student loan forgiveness but that is a one time fix that kicks the can down the road. Offer up some real change by capping student loan amounts. Do that today and tuition/costs drop tomorrow. 

of course colleges and their overpaid employees are friends and family of politicians.

[HamsterHookah 112]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Thanks @HamsterHookah It’s America so anyone can attempt a lawsuit with little to no reasoning but indirect financial impact feels like a low bar. If a nearby grocery story shut down that location, I wonder if I could sue them to keep it open because driving to the next closest store is a financial hit to me.

the real villain in this story is congress who are sitting on their hands about college costs. One side talks about student loan forgiveness but that is a one time fix that kicks the can down the road. Offer up some real change by capping student loan amounts. Do that today and tuition/costs drop tomorrow. 

of course colleges and their overpaid employees are friends and family of politicians.

You are right on with the bolded, but if we are being honest, the problem of higher education is more complex than just cost. It's also one of value.

I posted this on another thread (we seem to have multiple threads nibbling at the same problem); it's very long read. But we went to UT so we can do it, and very interesting read to boot, from the New Yorker on the the death of the English major and much more how it portends to the change in higher ed:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

24 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

You are right on with the bolded, but if we are being honest, the problem of higher education is more complex than just cost. It's also one of value.

I posted this on another thread (we seem to have multiple threads nibbling at the same problem); it's very long read. But we went to UT so we can do it, and very interesting read to boot, from the New Yorker on the the death of the English major and much more how it portends to the change in higher ed:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

 

Thanks for the link. I should have clarified that I do believe there are guaranteed student loan caps today but IMHO the guaranteed part should be low. To me, society is better off if we follow the 1945-95 model where the govt subsidized college education directly to the schools to prevent students and graduates being overburdened with crushing debt. Ronnie Reagan and his anti-liberal school movement is the reason debt exists at these levels.

[HamsterHookah 112]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:42 AM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Thanks for the link. I should have clarified that I do believe there are guaranteed student loan caps today but IMHO the guaranteed part should be low. To me, society is better off if we follow the 1945-95 model where the govt subsidized college education directly to the schools to prevent students and graduates being overburdened with crushing debt. Ronnie Reagan and his anti-liberal school movement is the reason debt exists at these levels.

I read somewhere that community college enrollment has gone through the roof and the reason is as you mentioned-- a cheaper "subsidized" way to essentially get to 30-40% of a college degree before transferring. 

Anyways, saw this WSJ article today: https://www.wsj.com/articles/student-loan-bills-are-set-to-come-due-adding-pressure-on-younger-americans-1738b6e0

Quote

Student-loan repayments are likely to restart this summer, and that will mean additional financial pressures for millions of younger Americans who are already in debt. In the fourth quarter of 2022, Americans 30-and-younger fell behind on credit-card payments at a rate similar to that of the end of the 2009 financial crisis, The Wall Street Journal reports. The majority of borrowers haven't made student-loan payments since the beginning of the pandemic, and with those repayments about to start up again, approximately 40 million people are on the hook for $1.6 trillion.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Blotto 23,560]

Not sure the best thread to put this, so I'll drop it here. Yeah, the cost of higher education is still a bitch, but the idiocy of advertising much higher attendance costs than anybody actually pays is something. I wonder if this is a uniquely american thing in higher education, or if it happens in other countries as well. 

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-truth-about-college-costs

I'm not even sure I believe some of the claims made, but as I don't have kids in college, I haven't really paid much attention to it. 

Quote

In real-dollar terms, today's private-college students pay a little less than they did in 2005; that year's paid tuition was only about 10% more than it had been 10 years earlier. A data series from the College Board in constant 2020 dollars makes this plain: It shows published tuition in the first column — that is, what colleges purported to charge in the years from 1999 to 2020. In that respect, tuition rose persistently, suggesting that students paid $13,000 more in 2020 than in 1999. But the right-hand column shows what students actually paid. That figure peaked in 2004 and then fell soon afterward.

 

 

[UpperWestside 6,183]

I am not the biggest supporter of heading to college for everyone mainly because people are saddled with debt they are stuck with for two decades after they have finished school. I think we are at a point right now where companies are making hiring decisions based on if you can actually perform the job versus the school you obtained a degree from. In saying that I do still believe there are professions you need to get a degree in to be able to work in that field (Lawyers, Scientists, Doctors among many, many others.) 

I think our favorite pirate (RIP) was still paying off his loans while he was coaching at OU and possibly still while at Tech. It is just insane to me that we saddle our future workforce with debt that is crippling. It’s no wonder there are fewer people in the US having families when they can barely afford rent and food because of loans they had to take out just to get a degree.

[Mole 4,333]

15 hours ago, Blotto said:

Not sure the best thread to put this, so I'll drop it here. Yeah, the cost of higher education is still a bitch, but the idiocy of advertising much higher attendance costs than anybody actually pays is something. I wonder if this is a uniquely american thing in higher education, or if it happens in other countries as well. 

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-truth-about-college-costs

I'm not even sure I believe some of the claims made, but as I don't have kids in college, I haven't really paid much attention to it. 

 

 

This aligns with my experience working in higher ed. Telling a kid that they got a big fat “scholarship” really moves the needle even though it’s really more like buying a car and dealing with the sticker price. Sometimes kids go to worse situations for more money because they got a bigger fake scholarship.

It’s a prisoner’s dilemma for schools.

[Brisketexan 105,190]

This aligns with my experience working in higher ed. Telling a kid that they got a big fat “scholarship” really moves the needle even though it’s really more like buying a car and dealing with the sticker price. Sometimes kids go to worse situations for more money because they got a bigger fake scholarship.
It’s a prisoner’s dilemma for schools.

Yeah…the cost after schollies and aid is the only thing that matters. In considering the US schools my son got into, he got scholarships to several, and even he figured out “cool…so what does that make the total cost?” The school with the biggest scholarship still would have been the most expensive.

[StassneyHorn 6,624]

I think this is where I split with most of you and become a shitlib. 42 months of no payments necessary, and anything you decide to pay goes to principal, should be thought of as a stimulus.

You’ll never get that deal on any loan in your life.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

I think this is where I split with most of you and become a shitlib. 42 months of no payments necessary, and anything you decide to pay goes to principal, should be thought of as a stimulus.

You’ll never get that deal on any loan in your life.

my buddy was explaining how the endless cycle of student happens when he told me about what happened to him. he went to several different schools and chased several different careers - eventually getting multiple degrees and certifications. he's been in the finance sector; has worked around the world as a chef; he's made good use of his education. what's fucked is that what was $25k in loans has ballooned beyond anything manageable. he said he's has paid back $65k and will not pay another cent. what's the most amazing part of it all is that each loan is treated as a separate debt (sometime a different loan per semester, for example) and get traded around to different companies and what starts at a reasonable interest rate balloons to 26% and up. even if you come up with a payment plan you're only covering one debt - the rest got into default and collections. it's bullshit. how is that not fucking usury? 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Longhorn_Fan68

[StassneyHorn 6,624]

Can’t say I know too much about debt consolidation, just there should’ve been a very loud, very pointed screech about paying off principal during this stretch and it didn’t happen. The companies weren’t going to do it, we as older people should’ve been louder 

[HonkeyVape 107]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:51 PM, StassneyHorn said:

Can’t say I know too much about debt consolidation, just there should’ve been a very loud, very pointed screech about paying off principal during this stretch and it didn’t happen. The companies weren’t going to do it, we as older people should’ve been louder 

Agree with you as as I said in Feb;

This is going to be a huge shock to the system as I have to imagine most people have grown accustomed to not having a $xxx monthly payment and have assumed that money for other parts of the budget, especially as things cost more (inflation, rent/housing, etc.) and people make same or less (wage stagnation).

My theory is society got used to not having to service this debt and there will be a rude awakening.

[Eastwood 4,394]

On 7/1/2023 at 3:56 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

my buddy was explaining how the endless cycle of student happens when he told me about what happened to him. he went to several different schools and chased several different careers - eventually getting multiple degrees and certifications. he's been in the finance sector; has worked around the world as a chef; he's made good use of his education. what's fucked is that what was $25k in loans has ballooned beyond anything manageable. he said he's has paid back $65k and will not pay another cent. what's the most amazing part of it all is that each loan is treated as a separate debt (sometime a different loan per semester, for example) and get traded around to different companies and what starts at a reasonable interest rate balloons to 26% and up. even if you come up with a payment plan you're only covering one debt - the rest got into default and collections. it's bullshit. how is that not fucking usury? 

Did he take on private loans? Hard to imagine that government subsidized loans would have interest rates that run up to 26%. And government subsidized loans can have income based repayment that can stretch out over a couple decades and at the end of the 20 year term, the rest of the balance is forgiven. Sounds like a great deal, but you end up paying double the loan balance over that time in interest. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

On 7/1/2023 at 3:56 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

my buddy was explaining how the endless cycle of student happens when he told me about what happened to him. he went to several different schools and chased several different careers - eventually getting multiple degrees and certifications. he's been in the finance sector; has worked around the world as a chef; he's made good use of his education. what's fucked is that what was $25k in loans has ballooned beyond anything manageable. he said he's has paid back $65k and will not pay another cent. what's the most amazing part of it all is that each loan is treated as a separate debt (sometime a different loan per semester, for example) and get traded around to different companies and what starts at a reasonable interest rate balloons to 26% and up. even if you come up with a payment plan you're only covering one debt - the rest got into default and collections. it's bullshit. how is that not fucking usury? 

There are definite problems with student loans but your friend did it wrong. You can't keep financing continued training and not paying off your loans. It also helps to read the fine print to understand the payment process. Someone in the finance sector should be able to model how their loans will come due and the consequences of non-payment.

With the recent SCOTUS ruling, I'm seeing a lot of anger at the system by adults who made some really bad choices. I agree that we shouldn't allow some of these loans but the adult has to take some of the blame themselves.

 

[Captainant 27,716]

38 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

With the recent SCOTUS ruling, I'm seeing a lot of anger at the system by adults who made some really bad choices. I agree that we shouldn't allow some of these loans but the adult has to take some of the blame themselves.

I agree that there needs to be more ownership by individuals, but remember the context for most people who have student debt: a lifetime of people repeating over and over that you MUST go to college and IT WILL BE WORTH IT! From 6th through 12th grade, everything is singularly focused on getting you into college. An 18 year old isn't gonna think about when they're 30 and still dealing with their loans. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Captainant

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

46 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

With the recent SCOTUS ruling, I'm seeing a lot of anger at the system by adults who made some really bad choices. 

 

Well yes and no. Adult enough to add $100k+ of debt that can't be removed via bankruptcy, but not adult enough to buy a beer.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

14 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Well yes and no. Adult enough to add $100k+ of debt that can't be removed via bankruptcy, but not adult enough to buy a beer.

I don't see how beer comes into this other than you're suggest that we shouldn't allow loans to anyone under 21. I'm ok with that but that creates problems since I assume a good percentage of students are under 21.

Loan amounts should be somewhat tied to the ability to pay it back. I'm cool if someone wants a low paying career but guaranteed loans shouldn't allow someone to owe 10x what they will earn. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,548]

4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't see how beer comes into this other than you're suggest that we shouldn't allow loans to anyone under 21. I'm ok with that but that creates problems since I assume a good percentage of students are under 21.

Loan amounts should be somewhat tied to the ability to pay it back. I'm cool if someone wants a low paying career but guaranteed loans shouldn't allow someone to owe 10x what they will earn. 

How about treating student loans, at least a certain amount per borrower, as public good and fix the rates very low like 2-3%. And fund it with the treasury if private orgs don’t want to deal with it for that ROI.  And enough total to get someone with some level of income through their bachelors at a normally priced state university. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How about treating student loans, at least a certain amount per borrower, as public good and fix the rates very low like 2-3%. And fund it with the treasury if private orgs don’t want to deal with it for that ROI.  And enough total to get someone with some level of income through their bachelors at a normally priced state university. 

I could be mistaken but I don't think average graduates earn enough to adequately pay down the loans from a normal priced state university especially when you include housing costs.

The state legislature, who represent Texans, have decided that it's not up to the taxpayer to fund education. We've decided that burdening the student is preferred.

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

other than you're suggest that we shouldn't allow loans to anyone under 21. I'm ok with that but that creates problems since I assume a good percentage of students are under 21.

No I'm not suggesting that, but there's some form of cruelty involved when you teach kids 0 financial literacy in school and most of them have 0 experience with adult finances and then put them in a predicament where they are pressured (socially) to put on the burden of $50K+ of debt that isn't even real to them as it's something they'll pay "later" in some abstract future that they don't comprehend. 

[Skipper 6,170]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 Someone in the finance sector should be able to model how their loans will come due and the consequences of non-payment.

 

 

This.  Give me a fucking break.   Personal Finance including a component on student loans should be mandatory in high school.  But I can't feel sorry for someone that allegedly worked in finance that couldn't figure out his own debt structure and how to consolidate or otherwise structure to avoid paying 26%+ interest.  I had >$60K out of law school and aggressively paid that off in less than 5 years.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Skipper

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,516]

In a related topic, Minnesota is starting in 2024 to cover tuition and fees for in-state students from families with under $80k income. North Dakota is panicking in that many of the students in ND schools come from MN.

https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-free-tuition-north-dakota-colleges-universities-3422a4b2b4f6ffcd7ec0da77cbe27636

Texas usually wants to attract companies with tax abatements, on the hope that good jobs will follow. I like the idea of helping students with college costs, which should attract employers.

[Captainant 27,716]

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Texas usually wants to attract companies with tax abatements, on the hope that good jobs will follow. I like the idea of helping students with college costs, which should attract employers.

Texas will slavishly stick to it's trickle down based model. Helping individuals is SOCIALISM but subsidizing businesses is just good sound capitalism

[fattyflattie 4,638]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I like the idea of helping students with college costs, which should attract employers.

Yes, paying for a bunch of kids to get some shit degree from aggy and UH has always been a dream of mine. 

3 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Well yes and no. Adult enough to add $100k+ of debt that can't be removed via bankruptcy, but not adult enough to buy a beer.

The other part of that is many of these kids are really, really fucking smart.  And I agree, they may not have a full grasp of it at 18, but they should a few years in, for sure.  Hard to believe a kid at UT who’s top 5-6%, with bad ass SAT and ACT scores, can’t run some simple finance calcs. 

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

An 18 year old isn't gonna think about when they're 30 and still dealing with their loans. 

I don’t fully understand this reasoning. We are asking them (largely) to pick a career path for the remainder of their life, or a good chunk of it anyhow, with many of the degree plans.  You go into med, law, engineering, accounting/finance with at least an idea that’s what you’re going to try to make a living doing. Maybe general studies/Lib arts gives you more flexibility and more of a choice to decide what you want. Giving them real world actuals of what to expect as a lower-middle of the road employee in their chosen path would be huge in making these decisions. Maybe that does happen (it didn’t for me). 

[Captainant 27,716]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t fully understand this reasoning. We are asking them (largely) to pick a career path for the remainder of their life, or a good chunk of it anyhow, with many of the degree plans.  You go into med, law, engineering, accounting/finance with at least an idea that’s what you’re going to try to make a living doing. Maybe general studies/Lib arts gives you more flexibility and more of a choice to decide what you want. Giving them real world actuals of what to expect as a lower-middle of the road employee in their chosen path would be huge in making these decisions. Maybe that does happen (it didn’t for me). 

The idea isn't to create a job training program. The idea is that a more educated population will create better civil outcomes. We should not be locking education behind crippling debt, and only making it accessible if and only if you can do something profitable. 

Hell, it's a part of our state constitution:

A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools

[fattyflattie 4,638]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

The idea isn't to create a job training program. The idea is that a more educated population will create better civil outcomes. We should not be locking education behind crippling debt, and only making it accessible if and only if you can do something profitable. 

I mostly agree. But an educated person who can’t afford to pay their bills does what for society? And we both know a large swath of society couldn’t grasp the education they’d be provided anyhow.  College is expensive, there’s LOTS of things we could do to drop the cost.  But there’s only so many seats at the table. How many multiples would you pay to attend UT over aggy?  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

3 hours ago, Skipper said:

This.  Give me a fucking break.   Personal Finance including a component on student loans should be mandatory in high school.  But I can't feel sorry for someone that allegedly worked in finance that couldn't figure out his own debt structure and how to consolidate or otherwise structure to avoid paying 26%+ interest.  I had >$60K out of law school and aggressively paid that off in less than 5 years.

good for you. sounds like you got good jobs out of college. it sounds like he didn't. I don't know what the fuck he did in the "finance" sector, but it's one thing to know how to pay off your debts and it's entirely another thing to actually be able to do it. your worthless anecdote doesn't take that into consideration. so also, give me a fucking break. 🙄

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

[Skipper 6,170]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

good for you. sounds like you got good jobs out of college. it sounds like he didn't. I don't know what the fuck he did in the "finance" sector, but it's one thing to know how to pay off your debts and it's entirely another thing to actually be able to do it. your worthless anecdote doesn't take that into consideration. so also, give me a fucking break. 🙄

I don't feel sorry for people that are smart enough to graduate from college but won't take the time to figure out and plan/strategize around their loan obligations.  There is zero excuse for anyone remotely competent to be paying 26%+ interest on student loans.  Zero.  Your story isn't some dumb 18 year old falling into $250K worth a debt to get an art history degree and realize at graduation they are fucked. I at least have some sympathy for that situation (and don't think those loans should ever be underwritten beyond a certain point by the fed and any private should be dischargeable).   Your story is a friend that took on $25K (which is, almost under any circumstances, absolutely manageable) of private loan debt presumably with no research into what he was signing up for if it ballooned to that kind of a rate, just tacking on loans to different companies, never consolidating, and then never took steps to rectify the situation and, per your post, just throwing his hands up.  I'm sorry - that's lazy and that's on him.  Like I tell my kids.  Actions have consequences.  My worthless anecdote was intended to convey that I (like MANY others) sacrificed to knock that debt burden out. Yes, I had a good job but it also would have been A LOT of fun to have an extra $60K in my 20's while single.  Instead, again, like many others, just chose to live within a set budget for a few years rather than shift that debt burden to my 30's/40's when I had mortgage, family etc. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I don't feel sorry for people that are smart enough to graduate from college but won't take the time to figure out and plan/strategize around their loan obligations.  There is zero excuse for anyone remotely competent to be paying 26%+ interest on student loans.  Zero.  Your story isn't some dumb 18 year old falling into $250K worth a debt to get an art history degree and realize at graduation they are fucked. I at least have some sympathy for that situation (and don't think those loans should ever be underwritten beyond a certain point by the fed and any private should be dischargeable).   Your story is a friend that took on $25K (which is, almost under any circumstances, absolutely manageable) of private loan debt presumably with no research into what he was signing up for if it ballooned to that kind of a rate, just tacking on loans to different companies, never consolidating, and then never took steps to rectify the situation and, per your post, just throwing his hands up.  I'm sorry - that's lazy and that's on him.  Like I tell my kids.  Actions have consequences.  My worthless anecdote was intended to convey that I (like MANY others) sacrificed to knock that debt burden out. Yes, I had a good job but it also would have been A LOT of fun to have an extra $60K in my 20's while single.  Instead, again, like many others, just chose to live within a set budget for a few years rather than shift that debt burden to my 30's/40's when I had mortgage, family etc. 

yeah, again your situation is completely different than his. you make assumptions about his ability without knowing his whole story. I don't know the whole story - only what I could get out of a 5 minute drunken rant. But by the sounds of it, at some point in his life he was unable to pay the loans and then they became unmanageable. lucky if you have never been there. a lot of us have and through no fault of our own. again, I don't know all the details but if he's paid back $65k on $25k like he said, then it's the system that is fucked, not him. 

[NWBuck 8,577]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:56 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

my buddy was explaining how the endless cycle of student happens when he told me about what happened to him. he went to several different schools and chased several different careers - eventually getting multiple degrees and certifications. he's been in the finance sector; has worked around the world as a chef; he's made good use of his education. what's fucked is that what was $25k in loans has ballooned beyond anything manageable. he said he's has paid back $65k and will not pay another cent. what's the most amazing part of it all is that each loan is treated as a separate debt (sometime a different loan per semester, for example) and get traded around to different companies and what starts at a reasonable interest rate balloons to 26% and up. even if you come up with a payment plan you're only covering one debt - the rest got into default and collections. it's bullshit. how is that not fucking usury? 

Thought this was an interesting podcast from NPR: Throughline: Student Loans: The Fund-Eating Dragon (from 2022)

My (overly simplistic) takeaway: LBJ wanted to fund higher education for families with limited funds (like his own), but needed banks to be involved, and they absolutely wanted their percentage/interest rates. Once Universities saw that there was more funding available, costs began to rise and funding sources filled the gap via loans that had even higher interest rates.

[fattyflattie 4,638]

4 hours ago, Skipper said:

Yes, I had a good job but it also would have been A LOT of fun to have an extra $60K in my 20's while single.  Instead, again, like many others, just chose to live within a set budget for a few years rather than shift that debt burden to my 30's/40's when I had mortgage, family etc. 

whatever you do, don’t put it into a market simulator. Paying my wife’s back diligently was worth a few hundred K in the S&P. Should have waited for taxpayers to take care of it I suppose. 

[pacman 7,369]

 

 

[Eastwood 4,394]

18 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, again your situation is completely different than his. you make assumptions about his ability without knowing his whole story. I don't know the whole story - only what I could get out of a 5 minute drunken rant. But by the sounds of it, at some point in his life he was unable to pay the loans and then they became unmanageable. lucky if you have never been there. a lot of us have and through no fault of our own. again, I don't know all the details but if he's paid back $65k on $25k like he said, then it's the system that is fucked, not him. 

Sorry, man, but a 26% interest student loan is almost unheard of. The banks have your boy by balls and he put their hand there, unfortunately. 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

 

19 hours ago, Skipper said:

I don't feel sorry for people that are smart enough to graduate from college but won't take the time to figure out and plan/strategize around their loan obligations.

The majority of the population doesn’t know shit about finance or loan obligations. Even college graduates. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

45 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Sorry, man, but a 26% interest student loan is almost unheard of. The banks have your boy by balls and he put their hand there, unfortunately. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

Basically what you're telling me is you've never had a loan go to collections. Good for you, i guess. 

[fattyflattie 4,638]

48 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

 

The majority of the population doesn’t know shit about finance or loan obligations. Even college graduates. 

But what can you put me in and still keep my payment under $750?  Speaking of, would love to see the venn on folks with crippling student debt but <5 yo cars.   

[Sawbonz 27,580]

On 7/1/2023 at 3:56 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

my buddy was explaining how the endless cycle of student happens when he told me about what happened to him. he went to several different schools and chased several different careers - eventually getting multiple degrees and certifications. he's been in the finance sector; has worked around the world as a chef; he's made good use of his education. what's fucked is that what was $25k in loans has ballooned beyond anything manageable. he said he's has paid back $65k and will not pay another cent. what's the most amazing part of it all is that each loan is treated as a separate debt (sometime a different loan per semester, for example) and get traded around to different companies and what starts at a reasonable interest rate balloons to 26% and up. even if you come up with a payment plan you're only covering one debt - the rest got into default and collections. it's bullshit. how is that not fucking usury? 

No offense but your friend is an absolute moron if you’ve got the details correct. He and anyone who made such poor decisions get no sympathy from me. 
 

90% or so of the people truly hurting because of student debt have 20k or less of loans. Many (most?) were the first in their families to go to college or took loans to get a certificate at a private vocational school and then got hit in the face by life. I would be fine with paying 20K towards the morons as well in order to help out the 90%

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

No offense but your friend is an absolute moron if you’ve got the details correct. He and anyone who made such poor decisions get no sympathy from me. 
 

90% or so of the people truly hurting because of student debt have 20k or less of loans. Many (most?) were the first in their families to go to college or took loans to get a certificate at a private vocational school and then got hit in the face by life. I would be fine with paying 20K towards the morons as well in order to help out the 90%

you sound like someone who has never struggled in your life. you don't what someone's situation is and the whole "no sympathy" bullshit reeks of privilege. he was the first in family to go to college, actually. his folks were blue collar workers in cali and moved around a lot - both his parents went back to school later in life and got degrees. but fuck him, right? people like you assume no one works as hard as you because you never had to struggle. well, I hate to break it to you - there are plenty of people who work way harder than you do and don't have two nickels to rub together. it just so happens there are a shitload of those people out there right now who don't know how they are going to make ends meet if these loans go back into effect. you seem to ignore that reality. well, many people can't. my buddy isn't alone in that. and fuck you for calling him a moron. gtfo here with that shit. no offense. 🙄

Edited July 4, 2023 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Sawbonz 27,580]

22 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

you sound like someone who has never struggled in your life. you don't what someone's situation is and the whole "no sympathy" bullshit reeks of privilege. he was the first in family to go to college, actually. his folks were blue collar workers in cali and moved around a lot - both his parents went back to school later in life and got degrees. but fuck him, right? people like you assume no one works as hard as you because you never had to struggle. well, I hate to break it to you - there are plenty of people who work way harder than you do and don't have two nickels to rub together. it just so happens there are a shitload of those people out there right now who don't know how they are going to make ends meet if these loans go back into effect. you seem to ignore that reality. well, many people can't. my buddy isn't alone in that. and fuck you for calling him a moron. gtfo here with that shit. no offense. 🙄

I’ve told my story on this and the other websites. First in my family to graduate HS on my mom’s side of the family. Actually first to make it past 9th grade. Dad left the home when I was 8 and we were better off for it and thankfully my mom met a great guy who became my stepdad. He had dropped out in 9th grade but busted his ass and treated us well. We were solidly lower middle class by the time I graduated HS and he did better after I was grown

And I had friends worse off than me. I started working at 14 but for spending money not to help keep the lights on like some of my classmates. As I said I’m for forgiving the  first 20K, because that is mostly people who tried to go the college route or vocational school and family issues got in the way and they had to drop out usually after a year or 2. I know many that happened to 

 

Someone who dicked around and kept taking more loans while not at least paying the interest and finds himself underwater? Not much sympathy my guy

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Sawbonz

[animaltobacco11 107]

October 1st Student Loans are entering back into the chat. Read this today:

--

Guess Who’s Back

Student loan repayments, that’s who.

Don’t freak out - you don’t have to make a payment today. But, starting on October 1st, you’re gonna have to pony up that cash once a month once again. Mazel tov!

As we discussed recently, student loan repayments have been on pause since March 2020, when the entire world fell into a spiral of misery and despair and had us all wondering, “Am I ever going to get to sit next to a crying baby on an airplane ever again??”

"Those payments, according to Census Bureau and Education Department data, will average between $200 - $300/month."

Now that we’re all happy and rich again (obviously), it’s time to start acting like it and pay off our loans. Those payments, according to Census Bureau and Education Department data, will average between $200 - $300/month. It’s not a bank-breaking, homelessness-inducing amount, but it sure isn’t fun either.

With that, the WSJ estimates that these repayments will pull $100bn away from consumers in the “coming years.” Basically, that cash that got spent on things like an additional streaming service, a new laptop, or a nice tip for some service worker doing the bare minimum but still demanding it will now be going to the Department of Education and student loan providers.

But, at the same time, indebted Americans really don’t like to pay off their education, whether they graduated or not.

Student loan repayments are at the absolute rock bottom of repayment priorities. Already, delinquencies in credit cards, cars, mortgages, and other nonsense are rising fast, largely thanks to JPow’s rate hikes. But that is the exact opposite of a good sign for student loan repayments.

"… student loan repayments are at the absolute rock bottom of repayment priorities."

$100bn of consumer spending over a few years would be a lot to lose, in case that wasn’t obvious enough. But if borrowers simply aren’t going to repay those loans - whether delinquencies go back to their normal range or (as expected) even higher than historical averages - will that really have a material impact?

Either way, good luck getting that paid off. I’m sure you’re excited!

The big question: What kind of impact will student loan repayments have on the U.S. economy? What kind of delinquency rates can we expect? How will the federal government respond?

[Foosters 17,860]

Taking a $1,200 monthly hit come 10/1.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

Student Loan obligations were already included in mortgage qualifications. In no way, are you allowed to qualify a borrower with student loans with $0 monthly payment unless there is an agreed upon Income Based Repayment Plan, which had nothing to do with covid or forbearance. 

There are standard guidelines. 

FHA/USA/Freddie Mac

0.5% of Student Loan Balance as monthly payment 

Fannie Mae

1.0% of Student Loan Balance as monthly payments 

VA

5% of Student Loan Balance divided by 12

 

There will not be a payment shock with student loans and mortgages

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

25 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Student Loan obligations were already included in mortgage qualifications. In no way, are you allowed to qualify a borrower with student loans with $0 monthly payment unless there is an agreed upon Income Based Repayment Plan, which had nothing to do with covid or forbearance. 

There are standard guidelines. 

FHA/USA/Freddie Mac

0.5% of Student Loan Balance as monthly payment 

Fannie Mae

1.0% of Student Loan Balance as monthly payments 

VA

5% of Student Loan Balance divided by 12

 

There will not be a payment shock with student loans and mortgages

True, but there will be shock with student loans and other consumer loans like auto, RV, toy, and personal. We've been marking them deferred for 3 years now on debt to income ratios with no repercussion from auditors (state, internal, and external) so I'm assuming it's fairly standard in Texas. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by SimonBolivar