2020 Texas HS football

[Beau Vine 55867]

I’d pay good money to watch Carthage face Canadian. 

Carthage would kill them -- they're just waaaay too big. Canadian is like a mini-Carthage. I'd like to see Carthage-Argyle.

[blacklab 12065]

1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

I've been watching Westlake for many years and this is one of the best defenses we've ever fielded. We gave up 20 point this regular season and most of the scores were garbage time. Last night, Cedar Ridge (who had 6 yards of offense in the middle of the 3rd quarter) scored on a very beautiful long ball against our backups and ran back a QB fumble at the end. I predict we advance through the playoffs up until a meeting w North Shore in the semi's and then lose a close one. If we had been lucky to go D2, it's another state championship. However, Smithson Valley has a good sports program overall and it's the playoffs and anything can happen-Just ask Lake Travis.    @NIUHuskies

Agree with all this. This may be the best overall Westlake team since we moved out here 6 years ago.

Kinda sucks the difference between a state title and no state title is which of the crappy teams in our district get into the playoffs. They should rank all the teams in the state that made the playoffs and the top half to div 1 and lower half to div 2 rather than just ranking the 4 in the district. There were games this year that westlake should have lost on purpose to fall to div 2. That's a bad system.

[956 Worldwide 35594]

6 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Agree with all this. This may be the best overall Westlake team since we moved out here 6 years ago.

Kinda sucks the difference between a state title and no state title is which of the crappy teams in our district get into the playoffs. They should rank all the teams in the state that made the playoffs and the top half to div 1 and lower half to div 2 rather than just ranking the 4 in the district. There were games this year that westlake should have lost on purpose to fall to div 2. That's a bad system.

Don’t see how you do this without implementing a statewide seeding system like for the NCAA tournament and that opens up a massive can of worms.  A UIL committee awarding the last number one seed and trying to decide between North Shire and Southlake? We don’t need that discussion.

You couldn’t maintain the geography based regional system.

[blacklab 12065]

Yeah, didn't think about that. Guess they could do it by region without too much disruption.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10805]

29 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Agree with all this. This may be the best overall Westlake team since we moved out here 6 years ago.

Kinda sucks the difference between a state title and no state title is which of the crappy teams in our district get into the playoffs. They should rank all the teams in the state that made the playoffs and the top half to div 1 and lower half to div 2 rather than just ranking the 4 in the district. There were games this year that westlake should have lost on purpose to fall to div 2. That's a bad system.

They don't rank for playoffs though, totally based on enrollment of top four teams in each district. Largest 2 go DI. 

Much harder to contrive getting larger school in just to drop down.

[blacklab 12065]

Sorry my post wasn't clear This:

Quote

They should rank all the teams in the state that made the playoffs and the top half to div 1 and lower half to div 2 rather than just ranking the 4 in the district.

Should have said rank by enrollment and biggest half go to div 1 and smaller half go to div 2

[Beau Vine 55867]

16 hours ago, Scholz said:

RR has a big ass team saw them play

Yeah, I just watched some of it.  RR has a good RB, a very big QB, and a huge OL.  LT looked very small, and had two starters out on defense.  RR scored TDs on a flea-flicker which was wiiiiide open and a pass to an eligible lineman who was wide open.  

[HornsOverIthaca 2339]

42 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A UIL committee awarding the last number one seed and trying to decide between North Shire and Southlake?

I don't think Westlake can beat North Shore, but they can definitely take North Shire even if Rudy is still eligible.

[Dennis Taylor 19362]

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

They don't rank for playoffs though, totally based on enrollment of top four teams in each district. Largest 2 go DI. 

Much harder to contrive getting larger school in just to drop down.

They only do this in 6A 

31 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Sorry my post wasn't clear This:

Should have said rank by enrollment and biggest half go to div 1 and smaller half go to div 2

5A and below splits division 1 and 2 when realignment occurs every 2 years.  This limits the huge enrollment disparities for the most part.  

Hopefully they will do this for 6A soon. 

Allen (6959) is literally 3x the enrollment of Little Elm (2269) and they're in the same district which is ridiculous. 

[Nueces River Rat 5796]

1 minute ago, Dennis Taylor said:

They only do this in 6A 

5A and below splits division 1 and 2 when realignment occurs every 2 years.  This limits the huge enrollment disparities for the most part.  

Hopefully they will do this for 6A soon. 

Allen (6959) is literally 3x the enrollment of Little Elm (2269) and they're in the same district which is ridiculous. 

I was just about to post this.  And really the UIL should consider making another class because even with the realignment splits, there are still some disparities.  

[Dennis Taylor 19362]

6 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I was just about to post this.  And really the UIL should consider making another class because even with the realignment splits, there are still some disparities.  

Allen is 1420 students larger than the 2nd biggest school in the state. That gap is the enrollment of Princeton HS, a 5A Division 2 school. 

 

[956 Worldwide 35594]

 But are there enough super schools to make a 7a work?  Seems like the real giants are limited to a few dozen around the major metro areas.  

[Lonestar88 5175]

9 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

They only do this in 6A 

5A and below splits division 1 and 2 when realignment occurs every 2 years.  This limits the huge enrollment disparities for the most part.  

Hopefully they will do this for 6A soon. 

Allen (6959) is literally 3x the enrollment of Little Elm (2269) and they're in the same district which is ridiculous. 

Well, Allen is just cheating by not building another high school.

The Plano schools are the only schools in the state even in the realm of their enrollment and Allen still has 2k more kids than Plano High.

[Lonestar88 5175]

7 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 But are there enough super schools to make a 7a work?  Seems like the real giants are limited to a few dozen around the major metro areas.  

Probably not, there aren’t 20 schools in the state with an enrollment over 4k, And probably around only 30 schools over 3500.

[956 Worldwide 35594]

Seems like an easier solution would be to just create an enrollment cap. You can be put in a district and play a regular season, but you’re not eligible for the playoffs. See how fast a new school opens.

Didn’t Judson use to have a red and blue campus? A lot of these schools have all the infrastructure in place, they just don’t want to split.  

 

[Dennis Taylor 19362]

11 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

Well, Allen is just cheating by not building another high school.

The Plano schools are the only schools in the state even in the realm of their enrollment and Allen still has 2k more kids than Plano High.

Something should be done with Allen but I'm not sure what it is... if their constituency doesn't force a change i guess they'll keep getting larger. Is that area close to being built out at all?  Not that something like that would possibly impact football...

Edited December 12, 2020 by Dennis Taylor

[Lonestar88 5175]

26 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Something should be done with Allen but I'm not sure what it is... if their constituency doesn't force a change i guess they'll keep getting larger. Is that area close to being built out at all?  Not that something like that would possibly impact football...

Allen is still growing as far as I know. But I don’t think they’re going to build another high school unless they’re forced to.

[Mac8111 2134]

Judson loses to Roosevelt

[Helobious 9821]

Region 4 thunderdome.

[Beau Vine 55867]

Prosper 38 Marcus 19

Dripping 49 Georgetown 42

 

[Beau Vine 55867]

3 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Region 4 thunderdome.

Johnson is gonna win it, then lose by 100 to Katy.

[Nueces River Rat 5796]

Allen is still growing as far as I know. But I don’t think they’re going to build another high school unless they’re forced to.

Eventually it will happen. It took Judson a decade or more to realize this and accept the inevitable. During that span I’m sure a few school board members lost their slots suggesting it needed to be done. What will ultimately drive it is once a coalition of parents see their kids not getting a shot at participating in UIL or other school sponsored activities because the limited capacity those endeavors can take will be maxed out . Football will be the last affected, but damn I can’t imagine trying out for baseball or basketball at a school that large. Mine was 1800 when I graduated and it was a challenge to dwindle down those rosters. Have to think a number Allen kids get cut or ride the pine who could start at a number of other schools.

I think another thing that helped Judson see the writing is once Rutledge retired, the Rockets lost a little luster which made easier to break up the school. Some thought the run and dominance was over and might as well let the change occur and adjust.

[TexPx 2336]

Well, Allen is just cheating by not building another high school.
The Plano schools are the only schools in the state even in the realm of their enrollment and Allen still has 2k more kids than Plano High.

Meanwhile in Frisco High School #12 is being built, and attendance zones revised for the 14th time in the last 16 years.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dennis Taylor 19362]

3 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Eventually it will happen. It took Judson a decade or more to realize this and accept the inevitable. During that span I’m sure a few school board members lost their slots suggesting it needed to be done. What will ultimately drive it is once a coalition of parents see their kids not getting a shot at participating in UIL or other school sponsored activities because the limited capacity those endeavors can take will be maxed out . Football will be the last affected, but damn I can’t imagine trying out for baseball or basketball at a school that large. Mine was 1800 when I graduated and it was a challenge to dwindle down those rosters. Have to think a number Allen kids get cut or ride the pine who could start at a number of other schools.

I think another thing that helped Judson see the writing is once Rutledge retired, the Rockets lost a little luster which made easier to break up the school. Some thought the run and dominance was over and might as well let the change occur and adjust.

I don't know if the school breakup is why MacAuliffe left but he probably should have done more homework on the Cy Ranch/CFISD situation.  Johnson left Ranch because Bridgeland changed the zones so much and Ranch got bounced by Klein Oak last night in the first round after doing it in the second last year. Parents aren't happy about that. 

CFISD hasn't cared in the past about building new school and changing attendance zones the way Katy ISD never cuts into Big Red. Cy Fair HS went 1-19 the first 2 years after Cy Woods opened. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Seems like an easier solution would be to just create an enrollment cap. You can be put in a district and play a regular season, but you’re not eligible for the playoffs. See how fast a new school opens.

Didn’t Judson use to have a red and blue campus? A lot of these schools have all the infrastructure in place, they just don’t want to split.  

 

I like this.   Of course your community can either go the Frisco route, adding schools with the mad population growth and keeping them within reason at the 5A level... or go mega school bigger than some colleges.  Should you go mega school, however, you're fucked when it comes to athletics.

 

Gets kind of dicey there, to be honest, dictating what a community can and cannot do in that realm..  As a guy who played both 5A( now 6A) level and 2A level football, I have a hard time feeling sorry for any school with 2100 kids crying about talent levels.  Throw in the Lufkin/ Longview type programs from East Texas who seemingly find a way to be competitive, and it adds to my reluctance to be sympathetic.

[blacklab 12065]

I think they should make a rule that any school over X enrollment needs to have 2 football teams, and split the team by even/odd social security numbers or A-L and M-Z last names. X should probably be around 1.5-2 times the 6a cutoff. I'd also be fine if X = (Allen's enrollment - 1)

The two teams I follow are Westlake and Lampasas. Westlake has around 2500 kids and Lampasas around 1000. The difference in talent is immense. But in a few weeks Westlake will probably play North Shore with 4500 kids. 

[956 Worldwide 35594]

5 hours ago, blacklab said:

I think they should make a rule that any school over X enrollment needs to have 2 football teams, and split the team by even/odd social security numbers or A-L and M-Z last names. X should probably be around 1.5-2 times the 6a cutoff. I'd also be fine if X = (Allen's enrollment - 1)

The two teams I follow are Westlake and Lampasas. Westlake has around 2500 kids and Lampasas around 1000. The difference in talent is immense. But in a few weeks Westlake will probably play North Shore with 4500 kids. 

I like this.  I was thinking about how to implement it without schools making an A/B team and under resourcing the B team but your solution would work. 

[956 Worldwide 35594]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

I like this.   Of course your community can either go the Frisco route, adding schools with the mad population growth and keeping them within reason at the 5A level... or go mega school bigger than some colleges.  Should you go mega school, however, you're fucked when it comes to athletics.

 

Gets kind of dicey there, to be honest, dictating what a community can and cannot do in that realm..  As a guy who played both 5A( now 6A) level and 2A level football, I have a hard time feeling sorry for any school with 2100 kids crying about talent levels.  Throw in the Lufkin/ Longview type programs from East Texas who seemingly find a way to be competitive, and it adds to my reluctance to be sympathetic.

I don’t think you’re telling a community what they can and can’t do in that realm.  We have an upper and lower attendance figure in every class except 6A,  no one says it’s not fair that Judson can’t choose to play in 5A.

You would just be saying “this is the size of school eligible for the 6A championship. You want to play, we will find you games. But if you go bigger than number X, unfortunately there are not enough schools in that size range to create a championship series.”

[Had Enough 2123]

The two teams I follow are Westlake and Lampasas. Westlake has around 2500 kids and Lampasas around 1000. The difference in talent is immense. But in a few weeks Westlake will probably play North Shore with 4500 kids. 



Out of curiosity what's your tie to Lampasas?

[HornsOverIthaca 2339]

Lake Travis and Judson out in the first round.  Wonky.

[Helobious 9821]

2 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Out of curiosity what's your tie to Lampasas?

He said he summers there iirc.

[Handcruser 2815]

He said he summers there iirc.

Lolz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Had Enough 2123]

He said he summers there iirc.

Interesting. I guess I used to summer there too.

[Beau Vine 55867]

 

[Post Oak 20568]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

Perfect.

[Dennis Taylor 19362]

7 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Out of curiosity what's your tie to Lampasas?

We don't need no stinkin badgers

[Had Enough 2123]

We don't need no stinkin badgers

Maybe that's exactly what we need.

[SHOOTER12 8886]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:06 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

Seems like an easier solution would be to just create an enrollment cap. You can be put in a district and play a regular season, but you’re not eligible for the playoffs. See how fast a new school opens.

Didn’t Judson use to have a red and blue campus? A lot of these schools have all the infrastructure in place, they just don’t want to split.  

 

Red and gray,  9th and 10th one campus, 11th and 12th the other campus.

[CoachEmUp64 79]

Allen will never build another high school. They just built a 36 mil STEAM center. When that was built any and all rumors of a second high school were shut down. They are committed to this system. We toured the HS a few years ago and the programs they offer kids are insane, it operates like a college and rivals some of the best with their academic and extra circular facilities. 

Lovejoy wanted to be annexed into Allen ISD, but the community voted against it in the early 2000s. So lovejoy passed a bond and built their own high school in 2006. Allen people say Lovejoy is their second high school. 

[Nueces River Rat 5796]

4 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Red and gray,  9th and 10th one campus, 11th and 12th the other campus.

I think they still had to count both in their total high school numbers?   

[CoachEmUp64 79]

Just now, Nueces River Rat said:

I think they still had to count both in their total high school numbers?   

Yes they do. A lot of big schools have this model. Or they have freshman campus's. 

[Nueces River Rat 5796]

2 minutes ago, CoachEmUp64 said:

Yes they do. A lot of big schools have this model. Or they have freshman campus's. 

Freshmen campuses used to be more common back in my day, even in smaller ISD's.   

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I think they still had to count both in their total high school numbers?   

yes, it's all feeders 9th grade and above.  The actual campus set-up is irrelevant.

[Nueces River Rat 5796]

8 minutes ago, CoachEmUp64 said:

Allen will never build another high school. They just built a 36 mil STEAM center. When that was built any and all rumors of a second high school were shut down. They are committed to this system. We toured the HS a few years ago and the programs they offer kids are insane, it operates like a college and rivals some of the best with their academic and extra circular facilities. 

Lovejoy wanted to be annexed into Allen ISD, but the community voted against it in the early 2000s. So lovejoy passed a bond and built their own high school in 2006. Allen people say Lovejoy is their second high school. 

I've heard it's pretty remarkable and one of it's kind.   If they can keep going, more power to them.  I just think sometime down the road (10 or 20+ years) the numbers and changing attitudes will eventually require further examination and at that time it will be interesting to see how community reacts.   What occurred in the Judson ISD did not occur overnight and was really a decade or more overdue and like I noted, it cost some their jobs while advocation the inevitable.   Had they done what Allen did, they still might be a one high school ISD.  But then again, Allen has done something that is a first of it's kind in Texas if not the nation.   It will be interesting if the next big growth area with an ISD with one high school right now will take the playbook from Allen and run with it.   

[Lonestar88 5175]

 

[CoachEmUp64 79]

27 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I've heard it's pretty remarkable and one of it's kind.   If they can keep going, more power to them.  I just think sometime down the road (10 or 20+ years) the numbers and changing attitudes will eventually require further examination and at that time it will be interesting to see how community reacts.   What occurred in the Judson ISD did not occur overnight and was really a decade or more overdue and like I noted, it cost some their jobs while advocation the inevitable.   Had they done what Allen did, they still might be a one high school ISD.  But then again, Allen has done something that is a first of it's kind in Texas if not the nation.   It will be interesting if the next big growth area with an ISD with one high school right now will take the playbook from Allen and run with it.   

Allen is pretty much built out. That's not to say it's not still growing because it is. It also has the smallest district lines in DFW. 

If there's one school in the area that I can see go the Allen Model it's Celina. Because of their history and the importance they put on sports, specifically football. But Celina ISD is massive. It's one of the biggest in NTX. So that would be a challenge. At Celina's growth rate I guess we'll see what route they go in the next 5-10 years. 

[SHOOTER12 8886]

53 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I think they still had to count both in their total high school numbers?   

I can't remember how it worked now, but think part of it wasn't on the up and up.

[Dennis Taylor 19362]

 

[Guest]

Why is ‘Great’ capitalized?

[Beau Vine 55867]

That's a real shame.  I watched some of the Jim Ned game, and it really looked to me like Art's nutritional supplementation program was really starting to work on his team.