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Body cam shows officer shooting at suspect who tried to run him over

Goo Punch

By Goo Punch
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HoustonHorn

HoustonHorn 1062

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Bad decisions by both parties. The lady was going very slow and the cop could have easily gotten out of the way without shooting into the vehicle numerous times. I think that would be a more prudent course of action. That said, there is more justification for shooting in this case than many. She did drive forward while he was in front of the car.

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woohorn

woohorn 1131

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Not to derail but...

Twice in my life I have been radar'd on a 35 MPH street going 40 (mea culpa). The motorcycle cops were on foot and stepped into my traffic lane in the path of my (speeding) vehicle in order to get me to stop in advance of the residential side street their bike was parked on.

First time I wasn't paying attention, saw cop at last minute, and had to swerve into another lane to avoid her. Second time I locked up my brakes screeching past him as he jumped out of the traffic lane.

I hate to think that those would have been justified shootings.

P. S. - I got verbal warnings both times because 5 over is a joke, cops were too lazy to go back to side street to get tickets once I had past their ticket assembly line street, and my stopped car on the main road was alerting other motorists to their racket.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3302

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7 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Not to derail but...

Twice in my life I have been radar'd on a 35 MPH street going 40 (mea culpa). The motorcycle cops were on foot and stepped into my traffic lane in the path of my (speeding) vehicle in order to get me to stop in advance of the residential side street their bike was parked on.

First time I wasn't paying attention, saw cop at last minute, and had to swerve into another lane to avoid her. Second time I locked up my brakes screeching past him as he jumped out of the traffic lane.

I hate to think that those would have been justified shootings.

P. S. - I got verbal warnings both times because 5 over is a joke, cops were too lazy to go back to side street to get tickets once I had past their ticket assembly line street, and my stopped car on the main road was alerting other motorists to their racket.

neither of those come close to what happened in this video.  

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Handcruser

Handcruser 2805

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While technically justified, I would prefer our police show a little better discretion than that.

I don’t think he was in fear for his life. Don’t step in front of an occupied moving car.

Flip side: don’t start no shit won be no shit.

In cases like these, I just wonder if taking the life is the best course of action. What if this was an old lady that was just confused or scared or something?

Block her in with your cruiser. Start there.


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hopkinsnhorns

hopkinsnhorns 533

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22 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Not to derail but...

Twice in my life I have been radar'd on a 35 MPH street going 40 (mea culpa). The motorcycle cops were on foot and stepped into my traffic lane in the path of my (speeding) vehicle in order to get me to stop in advance of the residential side street their bike was parked on.

First time I wasn't paying attention, saw cop at last minute, and had to swerve into another lane to avoid her. Second time I locked up my brakes screeching past him as he jumped out of the traffic lane.

I hate to think that those would have been justified shootings.

P. S. - I got verbal warnings both times because 5 over is a joke, cops were too lazy to go back to side street to get tickets once I had past their ticket assembly line street, and my stopped car on the main road was alerting other motorists to their racket.

Not even close to the same situation.  The car was stopped when he approached and intentionally started moving towards the cop.  I'm as ACAB as the next guy, but I really don't see anything wrong in this case.  Cop is lucky he wasn't run over.

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hopkinsnhorns

hopkinsnhorns 533

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”Any reasonably trained police officer would understand (Gomez-Guerrero’s) actions to mean he was attempting to turn his car away from the police officer," according to the deceased's attorney.  Sure, Counsel.  Sure.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/ct-lns-waukegan-police-shooting-video-st-0213-20200212-qfwgorguvrga5nlrkag4eql6ju-story.html

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9263

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7 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

A stomp of the accelerator is a split second away.  A lot of cop are shit this just isn't the hill to make case on.

So take 2 steps to the right and get out of the way. Not trying to excuse the idiot driver but to act like this guy had no other option is silly. 

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9263

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1 minute ago, Bevo said:

What is to stop someone from grabbing a gun hidden from the cop's eyes and popping the cop and then hitting the accelerator? And even without that possibility, there is a potential chase that could injure or kill innocent people.

Another reason not to stand in front of the car

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ButtFumble

ButtFumble 5192

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19 minutes ago, po elvis said:

maybe one day we can go to all robotic cops that can make perfect decisions and take out all of the inherent human emotions that happen during encounters, but until then, don't cause a human being to have to make a split second decision regarding your life.

this is one of the major issues I have with the "we need more cops with feelings" type crowd

they demand cops with empathy and sympathy and "feelings" that help them better understand those they are dealing with on a daily basis......but then when those they are dealing with on a daily basis do stupid shit like spit in a cops face with a bloody mouth (not caused by the cop,) or they bow up on the cop and start to fight them over nothing (BUT UNARMED!!!!!) and get their asses shot off then we are all suppose to be mad at the cop for not having a perfect reaction void of any type of emotion or personal survival instinct

we somehow want cops that go around always understanding the imperfections of others, but we demand those same cops always be perfect in every action they take no matter what is being done to them

plus a lot of those people that make those demands are people that would not put up with an ounce of bullshit at their daily bullshit job and are constantly getting fired or transferred because some stupid shit is going on with them or around them because of their lack of emotional control and rational thought process

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9263

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22 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Dig up, man.  Dig up.  Defending/justifying the actions of the deceased here just kills any credibility you have relative to other actual bad cop shootings.

You can take it that way if you want.  I am simply saying that it probably isn't a good idea to stand in front of a vehicle of a driver who isn't listening to your commands. 

Edited by Zepol87
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ButtFumble

ButtFumble 5192

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also if you watch the video

to start the cop that shot is parked closer than it looks from his camera when you see the angle from the second officers camera......he was walking to the side of the car when the driver started it and backed up and then cut the wheel to line back up with the officer

he is about 1 step away from being fully beside the car when the car backs up quickly and cuts towards him

in the video it goes from the 49 second mark when the cop is about at the side of the car to the 53 second make when the car is moving forward and makes contact with the cops leg.....so 4 seconds which is not a great deal of time

plus when the car makes contact with the cops leg it puts him off balance from what I see in the video and trips him up some which gets him stumbling a bit

yes he possibly could have literally dove out of the way and probably would not have been run over, but it is the cops job to detain people behaving like this and generally not their job to dive out of the way onto pavement because someone is coming at them in their car

and going back to the expected behavior thing if the police had just rolled right up and bumped their tahoes up bumper to bumper with that car on both ends of it the assholes in the car and their shitty family would be talking about hard ass aggressive cops that just roll up while they are sitting there chillaxing and bang into their car and pin them in and make them shit their pants and where is my money for being scared

and really it does not take a great deal of space for a car that is not fully pinned in to smash back and forth and get out

and then if the cops had just let them go after the one dives out of the way there would be other people crying the cops did not roll up and pin them in (or at least try) and their kids got run over around the corner playing in the street because the cops just let these assholes drive off and did not try and stop hem right at the scene

don't go from parked to a cop almost at the side of your car then 4 seconds from there contacting the cop and pushing him off balance with the car that you turned to aim at him and you probably will not get shot

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31686

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A Dallas cop was just acquitted on a semi- similar thing.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/former-dallas-cop-christopher-hess-found-not-guilty-in-genevive-dawes-death-11870282

 

Quote

When officers arrived, they found Dawes and her boyfriend, Virgilio Rosales, sleeping inside an SUV. Officers ordered Dawes and Rosales out of the SUV. Instead, Dawes tried to flee, backing the SUV toward the police cruisers that were blocking her escape path.

 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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1 hour ago, Zepol87 said:

So he couldn't have shot the driver from the side if they tried to drive off? Is it standard procedure to approach a vehicle and stand in front of it? 

yeah, under the umbrella of "what this cop could have done differently", this one really stands out. first the cop fails to properly block in the car, then when the ignition starts the cop *puts himself in front of the car* for zero discernible reason. the car was moving, what, literally 2 mph for several seconds before it was even a threat to run the cop over. that's the cop fucking up twice before any danger was even present to him, both instances he could have/should have easily avoided. the cop literally went out of his way to put himself in a position to potentially be run over, and then fired several rounds into a very slow moving car from very close range when he was afraid he might get run over. the people in here claiming that this was 100% justified while laying zero blame on the cop frankly scare me.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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1 hour ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Dig up, man.  Dig up.  Defending/justifying the actions of the deceased here just kills any credibility you have relative to other actual bad cop shootings.

yeah except for the fact that the cop failed to properly block in the vehicle and then intentionally put himself in harm's way for zero logical reason. that is unless that's what they're teaching at the academy these days. "when dealing with a perp in a motor vehicle, make sure to put your physical body directly in front of the car as quickly as possible." the cop fucked up. so did the driver, no doubt, but to act like this cop did everything right actually kills any credibility you would like to have.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33563

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Saying the driver tried to run the officer over is obviously incorrect. The driver clearly did not try to run the officer over.

But there was no way for the officer to be sure of that in that moment so fear for his life was not completely unreasonable at that time.

Both things can be, and in fact are, true.

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Herpa Derpa

Herpa Derpa 6160

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Saying the driver tried to run the officer over is obviously incorrect. The driver clearly did not try to run the officer over.

But there was no way for the officer to be sure of that in that moment so fear for his life was not completely unreasonable at that time.

Both things can be, and in fact are, true.

Yet only one suffered consequences for their mistake.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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quality post Rex. real classy too. 

and yes, the fact that you and many others think that failing to properly block in the vehicle upon arrival, followed by inexplicably putting himself in harm's way and then shooting to kill is "what any cop would do" is indeed a scary thought. 

Edited by Goo Punch
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pokeNbeans

pokeNbeans 203

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That was not a proper reaction by the officer IMO. The car slowly moved forward and that could have been for any unknown reason like a medical emergency or the person could have passed out, or who knows the hell what. 

The officer should have just stepped aside and got the fuck out of the way. Okay, it could have turned into a chase or some other dangerous event but you don't just blow someone away based on an unclear assumption.

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6879

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quality post Rex. real classy too. 
and yes, the fact that you and many others think that failing to properly block in the vehicle upon arrival, followed by inexplicably putting himself in harm's way and then shooting to kill is "what any cop would do" is indeed a scary thought. 

How did you want him to block the vehicle? Park perpendicular to it? He was close enough to that she had to back up to get away from it.

The driver planned on running from the onset.

First shot didn’t appear to hit anyone. Second one might. 3rd one probably did. Bullets do weird shit after they hit glass. Don’t kid yourself, if you ever have to shoot, you shoot to eliminate the threat.
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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look to me it's this simple- the cop is the professional here. the cop is the one who is on his job and needs to be on his game. i don't think there's a single person here who isn't critical of the driver's actions, but at the same time we absolutely should not hold the random crazy pedestrian and the on-duty professional to the same standards in a situation like this. the professional in this scenario (a guy with backup, body armor, lethal and non-lethal weapons, and two perfectly functioning legs) made two mistakes here that simply can't be overlooked or absolved:

1)he put himself in front of the car. how anyone can act like this isn't an insane and out-of-protocol thing for him to do is beyond me. 

2)he fired his weapon when he just as easily could have corrected his first big mistake by stepping out of the way of the slowly moving vehicle that he had inexplicably put himself in front of. 

If we're going to "back the blue", and treat these guys like the heroes they claim to be, then we need to hold them to a heroic standard. what this cop did was stupid and reckless, and it only escalated the situation 100x over in the blink of an eye, and now someone is dead and at least one other person likely has severe trauma that will stay with them forever. there's no justifying any of that. this could have and should have been avoided. 

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