2020 Baseball Cheaters vs the World Thread of Hate

[Beau Vine 54,466]

How many more Quad-A-level hitters need to come up and suddenly hit like All-stars for people to starting sniffing around the mother fucking Yankees?  Spares such as Voit, Urshela, and Tauchman all suddenly become mashers when they come to NY?  LeMahieu leaves Coors Field, then hits better than he ever hit at Coors Field?  The Yankees must have a hell of a hitting coach, wink, wink, nudge, nudge... Who did Carlos Beltran work for again?

[pacman 7,371]

"Come and Take it" belongs to the Nationals.

 

Otherwise, would read again.

Edited February 21, 2020 by pacman

[Chuckie Finster 22,752]

Good interview with Strom.

https://theathletic.com/1624733/2020/02/21/brent-strom-on-being-in-the-fourth-quarter-of-his-career-the-astros-scandal-and-the-managerial-change/

Strom said he “very much” regrets his inaction and he wishes he would’ve “come out stronger” against the scheme, though he’s not sure how exactly he would’ve done it. Citing the fact the 2017 Astros won the AL West by 21 games, he also pointed out what many others have: that “it probably wasn’t necessary.”

But amid the feelings of guilt, Strom has also found himself wanting to lash back in the wake of some of the commentary from the rest of the sport.

“When I think back, particularly to the 2017 ALCS with the Yankees, I realize that our pitching was pretty stellar and helped us win that thing. It had nothing to do with trash cans. Three runs in 36 innings (at Minute Maid Park) against a very potent offense, I think, spoke volumes about our pitching,” he said. “I thought our pitching in 2018 was exceptional. And then I think what I’m bothered by most is the accusations about 2019 when I know nothing was going on and we won 107 games.”

[txhorns 2,413]

48 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

There are downsides to using the Astros' system in that you have to listen for the sign which may make it more difficult to concentrate on the pitch to be thrown.  At least one Astros player has said they didn't use the system for this very reason.  This topic has also been studied extensively and the estimates on the higher end of effectiveness have it giving them an extra five wins.  Moreover, the system was probably not as effective in the postseason as it was in the regular season due to the increased frequency at which teams were changing signs in the postseason.  

I'm not denying any of that.  I'm just stating that no one knows what kind of effect it had it the postseason and especially in the World Series.  So to definitively say that it had minimal impact is ignorant.  So would definitively saying it's the only reason the Astros won.  No one will ever truly know what effect it had in that series.  It likely had some impact in a series in which every pitch matters.  The extent of that impact will never be know unless Astros players come out and admit that the only reason they got a certain hit, walk, home run was from the sign stealing.

[Fondren & Main 6,742]

2 hours ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Always and forevermore.

[Fondren & Main 6,742]

2 hours ago, Mez2 said:

I came to the right spot!

I came.

[Fozzz 152]

12 minutes ago, txhorns said:

I'm not denying any of that.  I'm just stating that no one knows what kind of effect it had it the postseason and especially in the World Series.  So to definitively say that it had minimal impact is ignorant.  So would definitively saying it's the only reason the Astros won.  No one will ever truly know what effect it had in that series.  It likely had some impact in a series in which every pitch matters.  The extent of that impact will never be know unless Astros players come out and admit that the only reason they got a certain hit, walk, home run was from the sign stealing.

Unless you are presuming that the Astros were also stealing signs on the road, a conclusion which was not made in the MLB's report, then yes, you can get a rough idea of how much the Astros benefited from sign stealing as you can look for divergences in the apparent talent level of Astros players at home and when on the road.  When you do that you find the only area of improvement for the Astros at home versus the road was taking breaking balls out of the zone, enough of a benefit to amount to a few wins over an entire season. 

If sign stealing added a couple of wins over 80 odd home games, how many wins would it add in a seven game series, where it likely wasn't even as effective on a per game basis as it was in the regular season?  There were a million things that mattered more during that postseason.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,943]

I guess they were also 100% effective in stealing signs so the no batter was expecting the wrong pitch. I would actually be very surprised if it had any effect at all. Baseball players do a lot of things that that can’t be shown to be of any benefit. How many baseball players do the sign of the cross before every at bat? Do you think that has any effect on the outcome?

[runthebone 8,047]

Yes, I am looking forward to non-Astros fans joining when their team's method of stealing signs electronically is revealed.

[Mez2 4,025]

Its not cheating if you already suck

[wild_turkey 3,185]

So livid they waited until Mike Fiers broke the locker room code of silence to speak out about it. They were all moving on with their lives while the MLB looked the other way for as long as possible. If Mike Fiers doesn't say anything, all of these "livid" players would grumble to themselves and then tell stories about it on TV a decade later after they take an analyst job.

That’s kinda how whistleblowing works. No one said shit about Harvey Weinstein until one person did. Not comparing sign stealing to Weinsteining, just saying.

And from the sounds of things, teams were upset with the Astros long before Fiers made this a national headline.

[Beau Vine 54,466]

2 hours ago, txhorns said:

I'm not denying any of that.  I'm just stating that no one knows what kind of effect it had it the postseason and especially in the World Series.  So to definitively say that it had minimal impact is ignorant. 

I just don't see the point in even arguing how much effect it had -- if you cheat, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.  

If I caught one of my students cheating on a test and he said, "Yeah, I looked on my neighbor's test, but all the answers I saw I had already bubbled in correctly," I'd give him a zero on every grade for the entire semester for being such a stupid asshole.

[txhorns 2,413]

15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I just don't see the point in even arguing how much effect it had -- if you cheat, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.  

If I caught one of my students cheating on a test and he said, "Yeah, I looked on my neighbor's test, but all the answers I saw I had already bubbled in correctly," I'd give him a zero on every grade for the entire semester for being such a stupid asshole.

I agree but one of the big arguments from Astros fans is that the cheating had no effect on them winning the world series so it's all ok.  

[dcar00 14,378]

2017 Astros movie coming out

"Bang the Can Slowly"

[Helobious 9,467]

3 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

How many more Quad-A-level hitters need to come up and suddenly hit like All-stars for people to starting sniffing around the mother fucking Yankees?  Spares such as Voit, Urshela, and Tauchman all suddenly become mashers when they come to NY?  LeMahieu leaves Coors Field, then hits better than he ever hit at Coors Field?  The Yankees must have a hell of a hitting coach, wink, wink, nudge, nudge... Who did Carlos Beltran work for again?

Tauchman and Urshela had unreal luck and extended hot streaks, they’ll be back to being spares this year. Both faded towards the end last year. Voit and DJL are grown ass men and there were mountains of evidence that they were poised for breakouts. 

[Sbbruin 21,898]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I just got my ass beat for daring to enter the Astros thread. I’ll repeat what I repeated there: while nowhere on par with Baylor or Penn St transgressions, their fans are acting just as retarded and Aggyish. 

I couldn’t have cared any less about the deal and I like the Stros, until their idiot owner players and fans started insulting my intelligence. 

That thread is for stroking each other off in a safe space.  Criticism or even a whiff of contrarian opinion is quickly shouted down.

[Hank Chinaski 6,322]

16 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Voit and DJL are grown ass men and there were mountains of evidence that they were poised for breakouts. 

DJ LeMahieu entered last season 30 years old, and up to that point had exactly one season in his big league career with a wRC+ above average (100). His career high in HR was 15, and that was accomplished playing half his games at Coors Field. What exactly was this mountain of evidence of his sudden ascension into an all-star caliber hitter?

It looks like he started putting the ball in the air a little bit more frequently in '18, and his hard hit rate ticked up a bit too. That's about all I can see. 

All this isn't to say that his '19 season was illegitimate - I'm not suggesting it was in any way, just that I don't recall anyone projecting him to have the kind of season he had, and there wasn't really any reason to. 

His projections for '20 are .293/.345/.440 per ZIPS; that looks about right. 

. 

[Viper 12,112]

[Beau Vine 54,466]

Tauchman and Urshela had unreal luck and extended hot streaks, they’ll be back to being spares this year. Both faded towards the end last year. Voit and DJL are grown ass men and there were mountains of evidence that they were poised for breakouts. 

You're completely full of shit. Voit was hitting 182 for the Cardinals when traded. He hit 333 the rest of the year, higher than he had ever hit in the minors. His SLG beat his minor league high by nearly 200 points.

[Helobious 9,467]

16 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Tauchman and Urshela had unreal luck and extended hot streaks, they’ll be back to being spares this year. Both faded towards the end last year. Voit and DJL are grown ass men and there were mountains of evidence that they were poised for breakouts. 

You're completely full of shit. Voit was hitting 182 for the Cardinals when traded. He hit 333 the rest of the year, higher than he had ever hit in the minors. His SLG beat his minor league high by nearly 200 points.

But his exit velocity & launch angle & barrel % and stuff. River ave blues (best MLB fansite hands down, RIP) had an article about why his peripheral stats were good when the Yankees got him. 

[Beau Vine 54,466]

13 minutes ago, Helobious said:

But his exit velocity & launch angle & barrel % and stuff. River ave blues (best MLB fansite hands down, RIP) had an article about why his peripheral stats were good when the Yankees got him. 

Please explain how barrel % is calculated for me.

[Helobious 9,467]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Please explain how barrel % is calculated for me.

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/statcast/barrel

That’s what I was trying to say. Voit had a good of whatever that is. 

[Helobious 9,467]

Don’t see the relevance anyway. The Astros had comically low strikeout rates the past few years because of their cheating. The Yankees had crazy high K rates, that alone should tell you everything.

[WBT 20,672]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Don’t see the relevance anyway. The Astros had comically low strikeout rates the past few years because of their cheating. The Yankees had crazy high K rates, that alone should tell you everything.

No wonder the Rays hired Jeff Sullivan.  He predicted the Astros improved k rate through cheating before it happened.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-astros-have-a-completely-new-look/

[formermav43 4,606]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

That thread is for stroking each other off in a safe space.  Criticism or even a whiff of contrarian opinion is quickly shouted down.

Which is why an Astros fan started this thread. Sorry everyone didn’t automatically agree with you and hurt your feelings.

[Beau Vine 54,466]

Quote

Bob Hilliard’s Corpus Christi, Texas-based law firm has long had a deep connection with the local Hooks minor-league baseball team, a Double-A affiliate of the Houston Astros. Since the ballpark opened in 2005, Hilliard Martinez Gonzales (HMG) started with six seats behind home plate, added a suite three years later, then a total of 11 seats behind home plate, and even a sponsored night in which the law firm annually buys a T-shirt for all in attendance. Hilliard’s kids threw out first pitches.

Last week Hilliard filed lawsuits against the Astros on behalf of season ticket holders who want their money back in the wake of the team’s sign-stealing scandal. Days later the Hooks, owned by the Astros, notified the law firm that its $45,000-a-year partnership with the minor-league team was not being renewed. The email came from Wes Weigle, the team’s general manager, Hilliard said.

“So I wrote back, I said, ‘Wes, so disappointing as I looked at the Hooks organization as family. What’s it been like 20 years we have had this relationship? So you know I was extremely affected and offended by the Astros cheating scandal and never once thought it seeped down to the Hooks. The litigation is personal to me given what it represents and how I feel about that kind of thing.’”

Weigle did not reply for comment to The Athletic, nor did Astros or Hooks communications executives.

HMG filed lawsuits in Harris County courts on behalf of season ticket holders Roger Contreras and Kenneth Young. There is also a third lawsuit filed by two other law firms on behalf of season ticket holders. That case, Adam Wallach v. Houston Astros LLC, on Thursday added three new named plaintiffs including the first corporation — CHA, Inc. of Lake Jackson, Texas.

Hilliard has familiarity with suing baseball. He several years ago sued all MLB teams to extend protective netting.

“I did it because I’d seen enough of it at the Hooks’ stadium,” Hilliard said. “I’ve seen how many kids line up along the foul lines, and I’ve seen old people who couldn’t react in time even if they were paying attention. 

“So they knew of me, and they kind of knew who I was and my view on life. And then this happened and I felt in a way similar, in a way more aggravated because it was so intentional. And they were just giving a not even a hat in hand apology and wanting to move on and keep the fruits.”

Hilliard said he believes the Astros should hand back their 2017 World Series trophy. 

As for the ticket cases, Hilliard expects when the Astros respond in court papers in roughly two weeks for the team to take two positions: the cases should be sent to arbitration and also that the ticket holders were promised baseball games and that’s what they got, so no refunds are due.

“Yeah, I think that’s what they say. They say, ‘Yeah, we cheated. So what?’”

When HMG had tickets to the Hooks, Hilliard brought his family, clients and donated 40 percent of the tickets to charity. 

He waxes poetic about the game and the Hooks.

“It’s truly an old-fashioned stadium, but built recently so you’re overlooking the Harbor Bridge and the ships going through the Ship Channel,” he said. “And it’s a real night, the bay’s right there and it’s really nice seeing, nice baseball and it’s everything this cheating scandal is not.”

So it is not surprising the lawsuits he filed do not start out with legalese, but the following: “Baseball is America’s game. It is as American as apple pie. And it is not just a game.”

 

[Stella Link 534]

Just ordered mine....

 

 

[Stella Link 534]

Website...

https://hate-us-shirts.myshopify.com/

 

[Beau Vine 54,466]

15 minutes ago, Stella Link said:

Website...

https://hate-us-shirts.myshopify.com/

 

Quote

1. We promise we are good, honest folks from Texas that won’t do y’all wrong. 

Irony.

[UTexasFight 9,547]

Bob Hilliard’s Corpus Christi, Texas-based law firm has long had a deep connection with the local Hooks minor-league baseball team, a Double-A affiliate of the Houston Astros. Since the ballpark opened in 2005, Hilliard Martinez Gonzales (HMG) started with six seats behind home plate, added a suite three years later, then a total of 11 seats behind home plate, and even a sponsored night in which the law firm annually buys a T-shirt for all in attendance. Hilliard’s kids threw out first pitches.

Last week Hilliard filed lawsuits against the Astros on behalf of season ticket holders who want their money back in the wake of the team’s sign-stealing scandal. Days later the Hooks, owned by the Astros, notified the law firm that its $45,000-a-year partnership with the minor-league team was not being renewed. The email came from Wes Weigle, the team’s general manager, Hilliard said.

“So I wrote back, I said, ‘Wes, so disappointing as I looked at the Hooks organization as family. What’s it been like 20 years we have had this relationship? So you know I was extremely affected and offended by the Astros cheating scandal and never once thought it seeped down to the Hooks. The litigation is personal to me given what it represents and how I feel about that kind of thing.’”

Weigle did not reply for comment to The Athletic, nor did Astros or Hooks communications executives.

HMG filed lawsuits in Harris County courts on behalf of season ticket holders Roger Contreras and Kenneth Young. There is also a third lawsuit filed by two other law firms on behalf of season ticket holders. That case, Adam Wallach v. Houston Astros LLC, on Thursday added three new named plaintiffs including the first corporation — CHA, Inc. of Lake Jackson, Texas.

Hilliard has familiarity with suing baseball. He several years ago sued all MLB teams to extend protective netting.

“I did it because I’d seen enough of it at the Hooks’ stadium,” Hilliard said. “I’ve seen how many kids line up along the foul lines, and I’ve seen old people who couldn’t react in time even if they were paying attention. 

“So they knew of me, and they kind of knew who I was and my view on life. And then this happened and I felt in a way similar, in a way more aggravated because it was so intentional. And they were just giving a not even a hat in hand apology and wanting to move on and keep the fruits.”

Hilliard said he believes the Astros should hand back their 2017 World Series trophy. 

As for the ticket cases, Hilliard expects when the Astros respond in court papers in roughly two weeks for the team to take two positions: the cases should be sent to arbitration and also that the ticket holders were promised baseball games and that’s what they got, so no refunds are due.

“Yeah, I think that’s what they say. They say, ‘Yeah, we cheated. So what?’”

When HMG had tickets to the Hooks, Hilliard brought his family, clients and donated 40 percent of the tickets to charity. 

He waxes poetic about the game and the Hooks.

“It’s truly an old-fashioned stadium, but built recently so you’re overlooking the Harbor Bridge and the ships going through the Ship Channel,” he said. “And it’s a real night, the bay’s right there and it’s really nice seeing, nice baseball and it’s everything this cheating scandal is not.”

So it is not surprising the lawsuits he filed do not start out with legalese, but the following: “Baseball is America’s game. It is as American as apple pie. And it is not just a game.”

 

 

I’m sorry.. what is happening here?! The Athletic is now trying to make me feel sorry for personal injury attorneys? Is that what I’m reading here?

 

My subscription with them expires next week. Can’t get here fast enough.

 

Edit:

actually reflecting on this some more, The Athletic, you’re right. Ive tried to keep a level head in this, agreeing the Astros were wrong and deserved their punishment...even understanding the argument for more. I’ve disagreed with you a lot but you’re right. The astros are evil and big big meanies.

Its one thing to wrong LA, NY, baseball fans in general... but when you wrong HMG, you deserve all the wrath on earth

 

 

[Goodman 3,273]

Is Boston catching as much shit as the Astros for their WS win?

[NorthLoop 14,251]

3 hours ago, Viper said:

Looks like Reggie with his Heisman

[Scraps 13,583]

Just ordered mine....

 
 

Meh. That one is kind of pussy. I went with this one:

[ChiTownDoc 21,175]

5 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

That thread is for stroking each other off in a safe space.  Criticism or even a whiff of contrarian opinion is quickly shouted down.

Yeah but let them have it.  Go to reddit...even the Astros threads, or anywhere else and they’re getting absolutely bludgeoned.   Why not let them have some safe space in their backyard?

[utxmike05 1,828]

Jeezus let it die already. We got busted...and they should have stopped it. And there is no real proof on when and how often it was used, or who used it. So of course there are the idiots that will assume it was used 100% of time by all. And whole team gets the stain and no apology will ever help. Fuck it. That’s life. They will have to deal with their mistakes. Everyone is blowing it out of proportion.

 

It’s mostly people who know nothing about baseball or mad bc their team lost to the Stros. Be mad but don’t be a hypocrite and act like Stros just did the most unholy thing ever in sports.

 

Stupid Fiers...why didn’t he have balls to bring it up in 2017 and stop the team. He sure enjoys that ring though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ztejas 43,546]

Man I haven't been here much lately but threads like this really remind me what I'm missing out on. Holy fuck some of you are delusional. 

[utxmike05 1,828]

I just don't see the point in even arguing how much effect it had -- if you cheat, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.  
If I caught one of my students cheating on a test and he said, "Yeah, I looked on my neighbor's test, but all the answers I saw I had already bubbled in correctly," I'd give him a zero on every grade for the entire semester for being such a stupid asshole.

Good analogy but doesn’t apply to a 162 game season and playoffs. Anyone have the proof showing which ABs they cheated and which players exactly used it? It kinda matters
if say (for example) they only used it 10% of the time and in reg season games only. Hence why they claim it didn’t have much of an effect on the game. For all we know they could have used the cheat mode and had a 12-20 record. Cmon use your head, guys.

It sucks they cheated and they should be punished. I doubt any Stros fans really say they are OK with the cheating. But can’t make assumptions here. MLB is done digging...the know the league will leak. Just play ball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TexArcher 38,076]

5 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I just got my ass beat for daring to enter the Astros thread. I’ll repeat what I repeated there: while nowhere on par with Baylor or Penn St transgressions, their fans are acting just as retarded and Aggyish.

We're not even defending the Astros.  They got caught and they should be, and were, punished.  We're pointing out that every other team is also stealing signs and it's been going on for over a century.  So everybody enjoying the schadenfreude is being a little silly.

And we're also pointing out that all of these players with their righteous indignation are full of shit because every single one of them knows at least one teammate who's juicing right now.  

So you say the Astros' transgressions aren't on par with the Penn St and Baylor transgressions, then you say the fan response is the same?  Which part of what I typed above is remotely similar to defending institutional cover-ups of sexual assaults?

Edited February 22, 2020 by TexArcher

[DallasGatr 216]

I’m thinking my Astros want to destroy every team as bad as I do after all the BS spewed their way this offseason.

[Seasick Sailor 3,747]

18 hours ago, B00M said:

Correas' explanation of why the Dodgers didn't get cheated out of a WS was pretty awesome. I suspect the Yankees had a stronger argument...

Do you now? You know the Yankess scored a grand total of 3 runs in the four games they lost right? They didn't score more than one run in any game in Houston. Not going to win many games like that. 

[B00M 6,471]

47 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Do you now? You know the Yankess scored a grand total of 3 runs in the four games they lost right? They didn't score more than one run in any game in Houston. Not going to win many games like that. 

Nice spin! And the Astros scored 5 runs in the 3 games they lost, getting shut out once. I hate the Yankees but that series was epic. Game 3 was the only blow out. Regardless of runs scored, home team won every game. As txhorns pointed out, every pitch impacts the game, so every foul ball, watched ball, walk, single, etc that otherwise may not have happened can't be dismissed. I'm lazy so I'll just point out solo HRs in Houston. 

Game 1: Astros 2, Yankees 1 @Hou

Game 2: Astros 2, Yankees 1 @Hou (Correa's solo HR?)

Game 3: Astros 1, Yankees 8

Game 4: Astros 4, Yankees 6

Game 5: Astros 0, Yankees 5

Game 6: Astros 7, Yankees 1 @Hou

Game 7: Astros 4, Yankees 0 @Hou (Gattis solo HR in 4th was 1st run of game; Altuve solo in 5th was 2nd run...)

I was and will continue to root for the Astros...

Edited February 22, 2020 by B00M

[Beau Vine 54,466]

10 hours ago, UTexasFight said:

I’m sorry.. what is happening here?! The Athletic is now trying to make me feel sorry for personal injury attorneys? Is that what I’m reading here?

Nah, you're reading about how the Bob Crane is so butthurt about things that he stopped taking the money of one of the minor-league team's biggest supporters.  

[Hank Chinaski 6,322]

8 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Nah, you're reading about how the Bob Crane is so butthurt about things that he stopped taking the money of one of the minor-league team's biggest supporters.  

I guess that's what having "fuck-you money" is for? 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Hank Chinaski

[maninblack 7,974]

 

[Beau Vine 54,466]

^^^^^^^

Those will never get old.

[Beau Vine 54,466]

Quote

Jeff PassanESPN

 

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The 2017 Houston Astros were cheaters. They were selfish, unfair, wrong. Their actions influenced opponents' careers. Their championship is tarnished.

And with all that being true, they do not deserve this.

Perhaps this was inevitable -- that the fallout of the Astros' sign-stealing scandal would include cowards protected by the anonymity of social media allegedly issuing death threats to players and wishing cancer upon their children -- and here we are.

As much consternation and pearl-clutching as there has been about what the Astros' cheating means, how it's a reflection of modern society, let's be honest: The response to the Astros, and to Mike Fiers, the whistleblower who unveiled the team's misdeeds, is far more representative of life in 2020.

Certainly this runs the risk of sounding obvious, and those with consciences already are nodding their heads, but the Astros so deeply inflame emotions that this warrants not just attention but empathy. Don't mistake that for lessening the egregiousness of what they did either. It's simply another truth here, one worth remembering as the scandal's tentacles reach into the principals' personal lives: The Astros did something bad; they didn't do something so bad that they should ever be in a position to say the following.

"I put a post on my kid rolling over for the first time and I gotta look down there and see: 'I hope your kid gets cancer,'" Astros outfielder Josh Reddick said.

"They start talking about raping, talking about killing and all this stuff," shortstop Carlos Correa said.

"I think ultimately the family safety is a big issue right now," Reddick said.

"They are the ones that [are] exposed the most," Correa said.

Cancer. Raping. Killing. Family.

It's easy to hide underneath the cloak of invincibility offered by social media, which is high on impulsivity and low on accountability -- easy to tap away at a phone or clack at a keyboard, reach down to the deepest, darkest place and emit a stream of pure, unmitigated hatred. And it's not just the cheating scandal that propagated this. Correa said he received menacing messages after his costly error in the 2015 division series and following his game-winning home run in the 2019 American League Championship Series, too.

Reddick and Correa went public Friday following a three-hour meeting with the Major League Baseball Players Association, during which the players, Correa said, spent a significant amount of time discussing security efforts for the upcoming season. The Astros, sources said, will receive increased security, particularly when on the road. The details are of particular import to the team, which has weathered a volcano-force eruption of anger inside and outside the sport over the lack of suspensions players received for the scheme of their own doing.

Why players are sounding off on Astros

The Astros scandal has inspired star players like Mike Trout to air their thoughts on cheating. Will baseball ever be the same? 

The notion that Astros players haven't been punished simply isn't true. It manifests itself in ways relatable to all, even those most aggrieved. There are the deserved costs: the loss of respect from their peers, the permanent brand of "cheater," the question of whether to strip their 2017 championship altogether. There are the ones that are fair but still warrant sympathy, even for those whose actions were patently unsympathetic. One Astros player this week admitted he sought therapy for depression over the winter. He didn't want his name used because he feared the blowback would leave him a target for scrutiny by those who would accuse him of playing the world's smallest violin. At the same time, he admitted, this is something of his own doing and he expects nobody to feel sorry for him.

Still, to deny that the human cost of this scandal reaches the Astros too is to lack the very same empathy the Astros did when they chose themselves and their goals over what was right. It's hypocrisy personified.

And when the punishment extends so far beyond the pale, it's worth stepping back and recalibrating. Yes, the vast, vast majority of those on social media stay within the bounds of decency, and it tends to be a small handful of trolls who breach decorum, vomit awfulness and hit send. Just as the Astros should be held accountable, so should they. The fecklessness of social-media platforms to police their darkest corners allowed this to happen, not just in sports but everywhere. That is a far truer shame than anything the Astros did or can do.

Everyone on social media has seen it. Someone once told me that he hopes I die in front of my kids on Christmas ... because I wrote a column saying Kansas City fans should not have booed Robinson Cano at the Home Run Derby in 2012. Maybe it's just a fact of life today. That's a hard thing to accept, to believe the world is so black-and-white that whether it's a difference of opinion or an error of great consequence or, in Fiers' case, a service to the game he loves, someone -- anyone -- believes that it warrants the invocation of cancer or rape or death, of the truest horrors we know.

Selfish, unfair, wrong. Yeah. That sounds about right.

 

[Chuckie Finster 22,752]

Fuck Jeff Passan. Can’t throw gasoline on the fire and then act shocked when it gets too hot.

[Hank Chinaski 6,322]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

The constant outrage and sanctimony (and hyperbole) of guys like Passan and Olney and Drellich and Kaplan, who have been pushing out basically the exact same article several times a day for over a month, had nothing to do with this, I'm certain. They had a story that didn't require them to think and they've milked it for all it has been worth. What a surprise that it has whipped everyone into a frenzy. 

[TexArcher 38,076]

17 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Fuck Jeff Passan. Can’t throw gasoline on the fire and then act shocked when it gets too hot.

Seriously.  Passan's been one of the main instigators fanning the flames of anger, and now he wants to tell people when their anger's gone too far, too?

If someone does get hurt because of this, I hope Jeff Passan never has another good night's sleep in his life.

[A-Tex Devil 2,463]

13 hours ago, Helobious said:

Don’t see the relevance anyway. The Astros had comically low strikeout rates the past few years because of their cheating. The Yankees had crazy high K rates, that alone should tell you everything.

This will be telling.  I am an Astros fan that agrees they get no benefit of doubt allowed and they should take their lumps.  If strike out rates for Altuve, Bregman and Gurriel skyrocket, that will speak for itself.  

But I am also perfectly fine at laughing off jackasses like Bellinger, Judge and Markakis, the first two who couldn’t hit for shit against us in 2017.  

So, yeah, it’s bad, but pardon me if I have a world record size eye roll at those guys bitching.  
 

So given there will be no benefit of doubt and can’t control outrage or win any PR battles, both real and ridiculous, Astros need to grey rock everyone with an agreed scripted answer/mantra every time someone asks them about anything related to the scandal: “We are sorry. Probably more sorry about getting caught.  But we also understand people are upset and will be for a long time.  We have no control over that now.  Each person will have to deal with it in there own time and own way.  All we can do is play ball and win.”  Just put that on repeat through hoisting the commissioner trophy in late October.  
 

If they ask whether World Series should be voided/censured, repeat it.  If they ask if they did things after 2017.  Say “No.” Then repeat it.  If they ask about how careers were ruined (laughable), repeat it.   

Edited February 22, 2020 by A-Tex Devil