2020 Baseball Cheaters vs the World Thread of Hate

[Eastwood 4394]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Like buzzers inside their jersey? Lol

Ok, I'm done here. I've been arguing with a Jomboy conspiracy theorist.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

2 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Ok, I'm done here. I've been arguing with a Jomboy conspiracy theorist.

What do you mean? You said the Yankees and dodgers relayed it to the their batters in real time with electronic devices. I said, do you mean like buzzers in your jersey? Where did i mention the Astros? Why are you sensitive on that topic lol. It was a joke. I know that one really rubs Astros fans the wrong way for some reason

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Saint Tacky 1609]

 

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You were presenting an argument? It sounded more like an embarassing attempt at deflecting culpability, which I wouldn't consider an argument worth addressing.

I mean, I'm aware of what thread I'm on but we can all be adults here. No one is taking away your title.

Reading skills too? Shit. You're the whole package. You should just skip law school and go sit for the Bar Exam.

[Sbbruin 21697]

I did like Orel's comment last night after an Altuve backwards K

 

[Eastwood 4394]

3 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

What do you mean? You said the Yankees and dodgers relayed it to the their batters in real time with electronic devices. I said, do you mean like buzzers in your jersey? Where did i mention the Astros? Why are you sensitive on that topic lol 

You knew what you were doing.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

5 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Why don’t you just say that the Astros have a tub filled with pre-cogs?  Since we’re now writing fiction and all.

I really thought that joke would land a little better than it did, but I have to remember you guys are extra sensitive on this topic. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[FondrenRoad 4378]

34 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

When i think about cheating at its core, I think about trying to gain a competitive advantage over my opponent/the rest of the league. If you think about it like that, nobody has done it better than what the Astros just pulled off. In all of sports. It’s actually kind of commendable. The GOAT cheaters. If you’re going to do it, you might as well go all out if they aren’t gonna strip you’re title 

Incorrect.  Even if you start with the mindset that the Astros were the only ones cheating and everyone else was as pure as the driven snow, the Patriots remain the GOAT cheaters.  They cheated worse than the Astros and they cheated better than the Astros.  Everyone playing the Astros at least got to throw and hit a regulation MLB standard baseball.  The Pats fucked with the ball.  They videotaped other team practices.  They won multiple titles by cheating.

Edited July 30, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[Sbbruin 21697]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

the Patriots remain the GOAT cheaters.  They cheated worse than the Astros and they cheated better than the Astros.  

Not. Even. Close.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

Not. Even. Close.

Yeah, I know.  The Patriots did so much worse, and in an environment where other teams weren't really cheating.  Glad you agree.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Incorrect.  Even if you start with the mindset that the Astros were the only ones cheating and everyone else was as pure as the driven snow, the Patriots remain the GOAT cheaters.  They cheated worse than the Astros and they cheated better than the Astros.  Everyone playing the Astros at least got to throw and hit a regulation MLB standard baseball.  The Pats fucked with the ball.  They videotaped other team practices.  They won multiple titles by cheating.

The pats have a 20 year track record of winnings. The Astros have won once, and an investigation on that season resulted in the biggest cheating scandal in sports. Tiny difference. One has a little bit more credibility built up. But they are silver medalist cheaters though. I’ll give you that 

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The pats have a 20 year track record of winning without any cheating scandals. The Astros have won once, and an investigation on that season resulted in the biggest cheating scandal in sports. Tiny difference. One has a little bit more credibility built up. But they are silver medalist cheaters though. I’ll give you that 

Lol.  Right.  No cheating scandals.  The Pats have no track record at all pre-Brady/Belichick.  And they have been caught cheating multiple times with Brady/Belichick.  Congress even looked into Spygate.  The Pats are practically the only team in the NFL to even have cheating scandals, and not surprisingly, they also went on their historic run at the same time.  Brady knew all the defensive calls.

Hopefully, the Dodgers don't luck up and win this year or next.  Personally, I will never see an asterisk on the Astros World Series victory, so I really don't care what grumbling opposing fans think about it.  I wish we had won another one last year, of course, but I'm still happy we finally won one.  It is icing on the cake that Dodger fans are all bitter.  Having the Dodgers go through their whole current run with zero titles would be the cherry on top.  

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Lol.  Right.  No cheating scandals.  The Pats have no track record at all pre-Brady/Belichick.  And they have been caught cheating multiple times with Brady/Belichick.  Congress even looked into Spygate.  The Pats are practically the only team in the NFL to even have cheating scandals, and not surprisingly, they also went on their historic run at the same time.  Brady knew all the defensive calls.

Hopefully, the Dodgers don't luck up and win this year or next.  Personally, I will never see an asterisk on the Astros World Series victory, so I really don't care what grumbling opposing fans think about it.  I wish we had won another one last year, of course, but I'm still happy we finally won one.  It is icing on the cake that Dodger fans are all bitter.  Having the Dodgers go through their whole current run with zero titles would be the cherry on top.  

I made the edit way before you posted this. I reread what I typed and realized it didn’t sound right. Point still stands though. Greatest QB of all time, greatest coach of all time. They will go down as the greatest dynasty. Not the level of cheaters the Astros will be known as.

 

Who knows. Maybe Hinch and Ludhow were robbed of their bellicheck/Kraft recognition because you got caught too soon. Or maybe you just need to win 3 or 4 more World Series to shake that image 

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I made the edit way before you posted this. I reread what I typed and realized it didn’t sound right. Point still stands though. Greatest QB of all time, greatest coach of all time. They will go down as the greatest dynasty. Not the level of cheaters the Astros will be known as.

Let the anger consume you.  Astros will be the 2017 World Series champs forever.  Let it sink in.  You can cry it out every now and then and graffiti the 2017 WS wiki page if you want.  It won't change that fact.

As an aside, I was looking forward to seeing how Brady does on another team.  Sucks that it isn't going to happen.

Edited July 30, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

4 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Let the anger consume you.  Astros will be the 2017 World Series champs forever.  Let it sink in.

As an aside, I was looking forward to seeing how Brady does on another team.  Sucks that it isn't going to happen.

I’m not angry about shit. I respect the Astros for pulling it off. That’s a fair trade off as a fan. I’d be fine with being known as the biggest cheaters ever if I got to keep a title. I’d want my team to do it. So no hate here lol. Plus the Astros cheating lined up perfectly with my teams window slamming shut, so it’s not personal for me. 
 

and it will happen. The nfl is going to happen even if roger godell himself dies of covid 

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m not angry about shit. I respect the Astros for pulling it off. That’s a fair trade off as a fan. I’d be fine with being known as the biggest cheaters ever if I got to keep a title. I’d want my team to do it. So no hate here lol

I agree.  Cheating also doesn't stop fans of SEC schools from celebrating wins.  College fans don't even care when titles actually get vacated.  The games can't be replayed.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

It’s the same reason I want the University of Texas to fire tom Herman and hire urban Meyer tomorrow. I want to win at all cost. Fuck morals. College football is the dirtiest sports league of them all. Everyone is dirty. If you’re going to be in a league full of scum bags, lean into it and get the biggest scumbag you can find so you can win, because he’s the best coach available.

So I’m not knocking what the Astros did. I’m just calling a spade a spade. Biggest cheating scandal ever 

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[wood 11104]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Oh I mean it's up there for sure. I guess I was trying to make the point that 1919 was more tainted and less in the spirit of competition.

If you're going to put it up there with worst cheating scandals of all time you'd first have to ignore the entire history of the Olympics, which more years than not is basically a cheating contest. Probably professional cycling, too.

From there, it would be hard to unseat this for #1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calciopoli.

The Astros could maybe make a case for 2nd - but I don't think enough has yet come out about what other teams were or weren't doing.

And this is without talking about what level of cheating you could reasonably beleive has been pulled off without getting caught.

Yep. I'm sure there have been some major cheating scandals I've never heard of, some of which probably eclipse this. There's one in F1 that I do know about, where McLaren & Mercedes were fined $100M after getting caught stealing tech from Ferrari. No, that isn't a typo. That's kind of a big deal.

And your mention of cycling is valid as well. I know Lance is an asshole, but it's pretty funny when he's referred to as "the doper" in a sport that's been rife with doping for decades and still is.

Edited July 30, 2020 by wood

[wood 11104]

2 hours ago, Mileslong said:

Yeah I'll own that mistake. It doesn't change the overriding point I was making, though. The Astros weren't and still aren't the only ones doing this. Far from it.

[wood 11104]

1 hour ago, Saint Tacky said:

What, like this level? Dodgers' Glass House

 

Also from that article:

Quote

“I’m all for that,” one big league manager told Verducci. “The big market teams have an advantage there. Now everybody is suspicious – and teams are suspicious because they’re pulling the same tricks they’re worried about the other guy pulling.”

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

19 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

It’s the same reason I want the University of Texas to fire tom Herman and hire urban Meyer tomorrow. I want to win at all cost. Fuck morals. College football is the dirtiest sports league of them all. Everyone is dirty. If you’re going to be in a league full of scum bags, lean into it and get the biggest scumbag you can find so you can win, because he’s the best coach available.

So I’m not knocking what the Astros did. I’m just calling a spade a spade. Biggest cheating scandal ever 

Even in baseball, its 2nd at best.  And maybe not even 2nd.  You are attempting to view the Astros behavior in a vacuum, but cheating is actually relative. If all the good teams were cheating at the same time, but the Astros went perhaps a single step further than the rest, then the "scandal" is not all that big.   So far, that seems to be the case.

Steroids is by far the biggest cheating scandal.  Bonds, perhaps the greatest baseball player ever, won't make the hall of fame because of it.  Verlander will make it.  Altuve will make it if his numbers hold up over time.  Same with Bregman or Springer.

Back to the CFB comparison.  In 2004, USC beat regular cheater Oklahoma in the championship game.  Oklahoma gets caught cheating on a regular basis and was probably even cheating that year.  USC got caught and had to vacate that title.  Now, in a vacuum, what USC did was very bad.  But they weren't playing in a vacuum.  They cheated a little bit more among a field of cheaters.  Just like the Astros.

Now, one can say that the cheating needs to be cleaned up league wide just like it was for steroids.  But one can't pretend that only the Astros were cheating because that isn't true.  We could say the same about CFB but it will never happen there.

Edited July 30, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[WBT 20397]

This is the intro to the initial Athletic story

Quote

There is a broad story about this era of baseball that has yet to be told.

To this point, the public’s understanding of sign stealing mostly rests on anonymous second-hand conjecture and finger-pointing. But inside the game, there is a belief that is treated by players and staff as fact: That illegal sign stealing, particularly through advanced technology, is everywhere.

“It’s an issue that permeates through the whole league,” one major league manager said. “The league has done a very poor job of policing or discouraging it.”

Electronic sign stealing is not a single-team issue. Major League Baseball rules prohibit clubs from using electronic equipment to steal catchers’ signs and convey information. Still, the commissioner’s office hears complaints about many different organizations — everything from mysterious people in white shirts sending signals from center field to elaborate systems involving television cameras and tablets. But MLB has not punished any club, at least publicly, for violating sign-stealing rules since 2017, when the Red Sox were disciplined.

 

[Eastwood 4394]

I'm telling y'all, the MLB is begging for people to STFU about it. This is the next doping scandal if it doesn't go away. The journalists are digging and the pitchers want it to happen.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

Astros fans are literally baseball aggy.

[Eastwood 4394]

Just now, Bevo VIII said:

Astros fans are literally baseball aggy.

Astros actually have a championship, so this comparison is no good. Please try again.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

Astros actually have a championship, so this comparison is no good. Please try again.

Correct which is also the same amount of championships aggy has, thanks for further proving my point.

[Eastwood 4394]

1 minute ago, Bevo VIII said:

Correct which is also the same amount of championships aggy has, thanks for further proving my point.

I'm just getting you to keep posting so I have to scroll by your avatar multiple times when I open the thread.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

I'm telling y'all, the MLB is begging for people to STFU about it. This is the next doping scandal if it doesn't go away. The journalists are digging and the pitchers want it to happen.

Of course the league wants people to shut up.  The league does better when offensive numbers are up.  That's why they stayed quiet during the early steroid era, and why they stayed quiet during the early digital sign stealing era.  They never want to go back to the era when the league averaged less than 1 HR per game.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

15 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Even in baseball, its 2nd at best.  And maybe not even 2nd.  You are attempting to view the Astros behavior in a vacuum, but cheating is actually relative. If all the good teams were cheating at the same time, but the Astros went perhaps a single step further than the rest, then the "scandal" is not all that big.   So far, that seems to be the case.

Steroids is by far the biggest cheating scandal.  Bonds, perhaps the greatest baseball player ever, won't make the hall of fame because of it.  Verlander will make it.  Altuve will make it if his numbers hold up over time.  Same with Bregman or Springer.

Back to the CFB comparison.  In 2004, USC beat regular cheater Oklahoma in the championship game.  Oklahoma gets caught cheating on a regular basis and was probably even cheating that year.  USC got caught and had to vacate that title.  Now, in a vacuum, what USC did was very bad.  But they weren't playing in a vacuum.  They cheated a little bit more among a field of cheaters.  Just like the Astros.

Now, one can say that the cheating needs to be cleaned up league wide just like it was for steroids.  But one can't pretend that only the Astros were cheating because that isn't true.  We could say the same about CFB but it will never happen there.

Biggest organization wide cheating scandal in the history of team sports lol. And that’s what makes it feel so different in the eyes of most fans. Steroids taken by individuals isn’t the same as a system of cheating that’s been instructed from as high up as the president of the team. 

[wood 11104]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Biggest organization wide cheating scandal in the history of team sports lol. And that’s what makes it feel so different in the eyes of most fans. Steroids taken by individuals isn’t the same as a system of cheating that’s been instructed from as high up as the president of the team. 

It seems like the goalposts are shifting ...

I'd say, even by that definition, U.S. Postal/Armstrong was bigger.

Edited July 30, 2020 by wood

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

9 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Astros actually have a championship, so this comparison is no good. Please try again.

Aggy has one tainted title, don’t they? I’m not saying... I’m just saying 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Biggest organization wide cheating scandal in the history of team sports lol. And that’s what makes it feel so different in the eyes of most fans. Steroids taken by individuals isn’t the same as a system of cheating that’s been instructed from as high up as the president of the team. 

If it helps you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that.  You seem to need it.  Hold it close.  Cuddle with it.  Suckle it.

That doesn't make it true, however.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

4 minutes ago, wood said:

It seems like the goalposts are shifting ...

I'd say, even by that definition, U.S. Postal/Armstrong was bigger.

I’m not shifting goalposts. Y’all are talking about sports nobody gives a fuck about, or you’re talking about cheating that doesn’t have the intent of gaining a competitive advantage lol. You guys are the ones dancing around this. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey. Those are the team sports that America gives a fuck about. It’s the biggest cheating scandal in the history of American team sports. Call it moving the goal posts if you want, but y’all knew exactly wtf I was talking about lol. ”well actually the US chess team had a pretty bad scandal back in..” nobody gives a fuck about those sports lol

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

10 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

If it helps you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that.  You seem to need it.  Hold it close.  Cuddle with it.  Suckle it.

That doesn't make it true, however.

I feel like you’re confused by where I’m coming  from. I just said I would want my team to do it. I would want my team to take whatever competitive advantage it could. Push the envelope as far as I possibly can without being stripped of a title. That’s what the Astros did. You should be proud. I would say most fans would want their teams to do whatever they could to win. How does that help me sleep at night though? What do you mean? And what am I cuddling? The fact that i wish my team cheated the way your team did? I’m far from moral high ground guy lol

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Eastwood 4394]

 

3 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

There are levels to cheating. Just like there are different levels of crime. There are different levels of everything. The Astros were part of the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport. Maybe any sport? What part of this do we not understand. They didn’t take your title and you pulled off the biggest cheating scandal in the sport. That in and of itself is an “accomplishment”. But I love how Astros fans are like “what, cheating is cheating” lol. There’s a reason there are different penalties for armed robbery and murder. “What, a crime is a crime” lol

2 hours ago, Eastwood said:

Insane. Biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport? ANY sport? Ever? C'mon, son.

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

In terms of cheating on an organization level to gain a competitive advantage over the league, yeah. I said what I said. 

4 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m not shifting goalposts. Y’all are talking about sports nobody gives a fuck about, or you’re talking about cheating that doesn’t have the intent of gaining a competitive advantage lol. You guys are the ones dancing around this. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey. Those are the team sports that America gives a fuck about. It’s the biggest cheating scandal in the history of American team sports. Call it moving the goal posts if you want, but y’all knew exactly wtf I was talking about lol. ”well actually the US chess team had a pretty bad scandal back in..” nobody gives a fuck about those sports lol

This you?

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, Eastwood said:

 

This you?

You caught me. I’m so much of a red blooded American that I only thought about the 4 sports that Americans give a fuck about. Damn. So the Russian national team cheated more than the Astros, eh? Got it

[wood 11104]

5 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m not shifting goalposts. Y’all are talking about sports nobody gives a fuck about, or you’re talking about cheating that doesn’t have the intent of gaining a competitive advantage lol. You guys are the ones dancing around this. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey. Those are the team sports that America gives a fuck about. It’s the biggest cheating scandal in the history of American team sports. Call it moving the goal posts if you want, but y’all knew exactly wtf I was talking about lol. ”well actually the US chess team had a pretty bad scandal back in..” nobody gives a fuck about those sports lol

I mean ... what you're doing is the definition of shifting the goalposts. First, it was  the biggest cheating scandal in sports. Now it's 'the biggest organization-wide team cheating scandal in the history of team sports I care about and Americans care about and any sport I don't care about is on the same level as chess'. LOL.

This isn't even the biggest scandal in baseball history, much less international sports.

[Eastwood 4394]

Just now, youdunnf'dup said:

You caught me. I’m so much of a red blooded American that I only thought about the 4 sports that Americans give a fuck about. Damn. So the Russian national team cheated more than the Astros, eh? Got it

I'm glad we found some common ground.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I feel like you’re confused by where I’m coming gm from. I just said I would want my team to do it. I would want my team to take whatever competitive advantage it could. Push the envelope as far as I possibly can without being stripped of a title. That’s what the Astros did. You should be proud. I would say most fans would want their teams to do whatever they could to win. How does that help me sleep at night though? What do you mean? And what am I cuddling? The fact that i wish my team cheated the way your team did? 

I know you say that.  But you've also been typing other words here.  You seem to need the scandal to be bigger than it actually is.  Its a league wide scandal.  You want it to be an Astros only scandal.  FWIW, I also consider all the steroids era titles legit, and I'd put Bonds in the HOF as well.  If the game is corrupt, then you're still the best at playing a corrupt game.

And your team, which I assume is the Rangers, did try to push the envelope.  They hired Woodward from the Dodgers, in part, because of his expertise in sign stealing.  They just didn't have the talent for it to make a difference.  Talent is still required, you know.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2019/04/23/rangers-are-quickly-earning-a-reputation-as-adept-sign-stealers-and-chris-woodward-doesn-t-mind/

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

11 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I know you say that.  But you've also been typing other words here.  You seem to need the scandal to be bigger than it actually is.  Its a league wide scandal.  You want it to be an Astros only scandal.  FWIW, I also consider all the steroids era titles legit, and I'd put Bonds in the HOF as well.  If the game is corrupt, then you're still the best at playing a corrupt game.

And your team, which I assume is the Rangers, did try to push the envelope.  They hired Woodward from the Dodgers, in part, because of his expertise in sign stealing.  They just didn't have the talent for it to make a difference.  Talent is still required, you know.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2019/04/23/rangers-are-quickly-earning-a-reputation-as-adept-sign-stealers-and-chris-woodward-doesn-t-mind/

 

Right, we tired and failed to cheat on the same level as the Astros. Same as everyone else who attempted to steal signs in baseball. Nobody else had the audacity to take it as far as the Astros. And that’s ok. Like you said, if everyone is trying to do it, what’s the issue with pushing it further than anyone else? I actually agree with you on that. Plus, It doesn’t change history for the same reasons you mentioned about Barry bonds and the steroid era. Nothing was stripped. So you’re wrong. I would want my team to cheat to the highest extent if it meant giving my team an advantage. If we get caught, that’s the price we pay. But if they don’t strip the title, then yes I want to push the envelope further than any other team...like the Astros did. There’s nothing wrong with it. Sports aren’t about morals. They’re about winning and flags flying forever.

Edited July 30, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Guadaloopy 10903]

Non-Astro fans’ assessment of the depth and severity of this scandal should be a case study for explanations of recency bias.  

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

4 hours ago, wood said:

Exactly. Some people never played the game and have this idealistic notion of what it is. I'm romantic as hell about baseball, too, but anyone who's gonna pretend only one or two teams is stealing signs, and then get all fucking indignant and shit, calling people hypocrites and liars ... only needs to look as far as the nearest mirror to see who's in denial, or a hypocrite, or a liar. 

Hell, last weekend in my kid's 14U tournament we figured out a kid had stolen our 'Steal' sign. Nobody freaked out & went screaming "Cheaters!" at the other dugout. Nobody got a heater to the head. We all just laughed it off & changed our fucking sign...

You’re an idiot to compare the two things unless the 14U team had developed a software algorithm, used cameras to view the sign sequencing, and created a way to relay the info covertly from the dugout to the field. 
 

everyone has always agreed that it’s ok and encouraged to try to break the signs by watching from the dugout. If the catcher doesn’t hide his calls well that’s his fault. If the pitcher tips pitches that’s his fault. If the base coach signs can be broken that’s their fault. 
 

it’s the addition of technology that is the problem. With any team that does it. 

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

1 hour ago, Eastwood said:

I'm telling y'all, the MLB is begging for people to STFU about it. This is the next doping scandal if it doesn't go away. The journalists are digging and the pitchers want it to happen.

I’m all for it. Don’t even need to vacate anything, just admit there was a problem, establish discreet rules about what is allowed, enforce them going forward.

 

[wood 11104]

40 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

You’re an idiot to compare the two things unless the 14U team had developed a software algorithm, used cameras to view the sign sequencing, and created a way to relay the info covertly from the dugout to the field. 
 

everyone has always agreed that it’s ok and encouraged to try to break the signs by watching from the dugout. If the catcher doesn’t hide his calls well that’s his fault. If the pitcher tips pitches that’s his fault. If the base coach signs can be broken that’s their fault. 
 

it’s the addition of technology that is the problem. With any team that does it. 

Yeah I already acknowledged my mistake re: the rule up above. I had a misconception of illegality based on having read & heard stories about bounties being put out for sign-stealers by old-time baseball officials. My bad. 

Re: the technology, the Astros aren't the first team to get caught breaking the rules by using technology/cameras/lenses/comms devices to steal & relay signs. Not even close. It's happened several times, going back at least 200 years, and MLB has done little to nothing about it. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by wood

[wood 11104]

Quote

going back at least 200 100 years

Edited July 30, 2020 by wood

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Astros clear rule breakers but they ascribe to the all MLB teams cheat. 

Let them run free and die happy!

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

We subscribe to the Red Sox and Yankees were caught cheating for the same thing in the same year. Not our fault they were simply worse at it, but the Apple Watch was a nice touch. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Yes, we already said let the cheaters be happy

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

Get yours before they sell out.

[TonyTexas 10478]

[Saint Tacky 1609]

16 hours ago, Eastwood said:

 

This you?

I just started skipping the posts. Nonsensical. Uninformed. A waste of my time.