2020 Baseball Cheaters vs the World Thread of Hate

[Gourmand 7778]

 

[Gourmand 7778]

19 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Biggest organization wide cheating scandal in the history of team sports lol. And that’s what makes it feel so different in the eyes of most fans. Steroids taken by individuals isn’t the same as a system of cheating that’s been instructed from as high up as the president of the team. 

This is just bullshit. Doug Glanville explains it better than I so read this...

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28850651/i-played-clean-steroid-era-peds-hurt-players-more-sign-stealing-does

[hornmpa96 2661]

I just don't get the absolute anger on this. Sign stealing using technology and relaying it to the batter in real time has been going on since at least 1940. Hank Greenberg, Bobby Thomson, etc. One of the most famous moments in the game resulted from stealing signs. Baseball essentially allowed the technology to exist to steal signs and utilized the honor system to monitor potential cheating. It's only shocking that more players haven't pulled a Fiers and tattled on their prior teams.

I understand the anger at the lack of player suspensions, but that was the deal. Also, Joe Kelly's still a little bitch for throwing high. 

 

[clapclapclap 9000]

14 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

 

MACHOMANRANDYTRAVIS

 

@MachoManRandyT

Lol dude was slipping in and out of a woody allen impression

9:15 AM · Jul 31, 2020

 

I laughed

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

I just don't get the absolute anger on this. Sign stealing using technology and relaying it to the batter in real time has been going on since at least 1940. Hank Greenberg, Bobby Thomson, etc. One of the most famous moments in the game resulted from stealing signs. Baseball essentially allowed the technology to exist to steal signs and utilized the honor system to monitor potential cheating. It's only shocking that more players haven't pulled a Fiers and tattled on their prior teams.

I understand the anger at the lack of player suspensions, but that was the deal. Also, Joe Kelly's still a little bitch for throwing high. 

 

Joe Kelly is a bitch.  He probably doesn't even care about the sign stealing.  He just wants to start shit.  Any reason is good enough.  Bellinger is pissy and wants to blame someone else for his terrible playoff performances.  Dodger fans are pissy because they are Dodger fans and they're always that way.  Ranger fans are pissy because they didn't win in their window.

There really isn't any absolute anger that I've seen.  Even with Jomboy being a Yankee fan and posting nonsense, I've worn my 2017 WS champs shirt around Yankee fans plenty of times without even getting a dirty look.  A joke or two, on occasion, but never a dirty look or angry comment.

[Gourmand 7778]

The Red Sox won it in 2018 and are cheaters as well but MLB gave them a pass just like what's happening with the Yankees.

The main reason for the disproportionate outrage from other fanbases is a ginned up media theme laid an open secret of sign stealing throughout basebal at the feet of one franchise. That franchise was an easy mark for those media outlets and Rob Manfred because it wasn't one of the marquee organizations and could provide cover for the larger problem.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[David Dennison 19519]

Cheating is part of baseball culture. Always has been. These players are glad to have the Astros divert attention from themselves.

MLB wants no part of having the truth about baseball come out, which is why they slapped the Astros on the wrist and gave the players immunity.

The Dodger cry is funny, though. 

[Pato del Muerto 53454]

Steroids is just cheating, and as was brought up back then players have been taking stimulants and other drugs to try and enhance their performance from the beginning. 
no punishment for retroactive goings-on, but mlb needs to establish in written rules what is allowed and what is not for sign stealing, and have punishments going forward for those caught.  The unwritten rules seem to vary club to club, player to player, era to era. 
If the league is going to take action against pitchers throwing at players, it needs to take action against players doing the things that make a pitcher choose to throw at them. Justice either resides with the players or with the league office. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Steroids is just cheating, and as was brought up back then players have been taking stimulants and other drugs to try and enhance their performance from the beginning. 
no punishment for retroactive goings-on, but mlb needs to establish in written rules what is allowed and what is not for sign stealing, and have punishments going forward for those caught.  The unwritten rules seem to vary club to club, player to player, era to era. 
If the league is going to take action against pitchers throwing at players, it needs to take action against players doing the things that make a pitcher choose to throw at them. Justice either resides with the players or with the league office. 

The MLB is taking action against sign stealing.  Or trying to at least.  Justice doesn't and shouldn't ever reside with the pitcher.  Its pointless escalation that can ultimately lead to additional justice being handed out with a bat or by even worse means.  Throwing a 90 mph fastball at someone's head intentionally is an attack with a deadly weapon.  Bobby Fischer doesn't jam a rook in someone's eye because they tried to cheat him at chess.

Had Kelly's headshot on Correa connected, would you also be okay with Correa's family seeking street justice against Kelly?  Because that is the next step really.  

[WBT 20967]

1 hour ago, Gourmand said:

That franchise was an easy mark for those media outlets and Rob Manfred because it wasn't one of the marquee organizations and could provide cover for the larger problem.
 

And had a GM and owner that challenged the status quo and were just generally disliked.  That played a huge role too.

Edited July 31, 2020 by WBT

[Gourmand 7778]

5 minutes ago, WBT said:

And had a GM and owner that challenged the status quo and was just generally disliked.  That played a huge role too.

Correct, and now Jim Crane is out there running his PR dept into a frenzy again by saying unwise stuff that won't go over well. 

[Pato del Muerto 53454]

10 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The MLB is taking action against sign stealing.  Or trying to at least.  Justice doesn't and shouldn't ever reside with the pitcher.  Its pointless escalation that can ultimately lead to additional justice being handed out with a bat or by even worse means.  Throwing a 90 mph fastball at someone's head intentionally is an attack with a deadly weapon.  Bobby Fischer doesn't jam a rook in someone's eye because they tried to cheat him at chess.

Had Kelly's headshot on Correa connected, would you also be okay with Correa's family seeking street justice against Kelly?  Because that is the next step really.  

That’s why the unwritten rules need to become written rules, and then monitored and enforced by mlb. 
let’s announce formally that bat flips are ok or not, so it isn’t allowed to be the personal opinion of every player. 
let’s define legal and illegal sign stealing for the same reason. 
if a runner running across the mound on his way back to the dugout is still discouraged, let’s get that on record as ok or not. 
this isn’t just poor to middle class white American boys playing ball anymore, and all these different baseball cultures have different ideas. Time to codify more of them. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[FondrenRoad 4378]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That’s why the unwritten rules need to become written rules, and then monitored and enforced by mlb. 
let’s announce formally that bat flips are ok or not, so it isn’t allowed to be the personal opinion of every player. 
let’s define legal and illegal sign stealing for the same reason. 
if a runner running across the mound on his way back to the dugout is still discouraged, let’s get that on record as ok or not. 
this isn’t just poor to middle class white American boys playing ball anymore, and all these different baseball cultures have different ideas. Time to codify more of them. 

The league has issued new rules on sign stealing.  We will see if they are broken and/or enforced.  To be fair, I don't think that Kelly gives a shit about sign stealing.  He just wanted an excuse.  He is the type of guy that walks into a bar and starts talking shit to a random stranger.

I think bat flips and other celebrations should be allowed.  Running across the mound shouldn't be allowed as its just stupid instigation for no reason.  I also support touchdown dances in the NFL, FWIW.  If you don't want to see a celebration, then stop the other team from scoring.  No matter what, intentionally throwing at a batter's head should never be acceptable.

Edited July 31, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[wood 11763]

3 hours ago, Gourmand said:

 

Exactly right. MLB teams have been caught doing this 20+ times over the last 120 years, & the league's done nothing about it. It's not an Astros problem. It's leaguewide, & always has been.

[wood 11763]

3 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

I just don't get the absolute anger on this. Sign stealing using technology and relaying it to the batter in real time has been going on since at least 1940. Hank Greenberg, Bobby Thomson, etc. One of the most famous moments in the game resulted from stealing signs. Baseball essentially allowed the technology to exist to steal signs and utilized the honor system to monitor potential cheating. It's only shocking that more players haven't pulled a Fiers and tattled on their prior teams.

I understand the anger at the lack of player suspensions, but that was the deal. Also, Joe Kelly's still a little bitch for throwing high. 

Yep. The earliest instance I've read about was the 1899-1900 Phillies. They were doing essentially the same shit the Astros and others were doing and numerous teams have done for the last 120+ years.

Quote

A backup catcher named Morgan Murphy watched games at Baker Bowl in an “observatory” beyond the centerfield wall, where he stole signs with binoculars. Murphy rigged an underground wire from his perch to the third-base coaching box, where Bull Childs kept his foot above a junction box that would signal the pitch by buzzing once or twice. The Reds discovered and uprooted the system after they noticed Childs was not moving his right foot—not even when that portion of the coaching box included a puddle from rain. The Phillies “explained” the wire as something left behind by a traveling circus that had played at the ballpark. The club was not disciplined.

Many more instances at https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/23/sign-stealing-history-astros-red-sox ...

Edited July 31, 2020 by wood

[Gourmand 7778]

4 minutes ago, wood said:

Exactly right. MLB teams have been caught doing this 20+ times over the last 120 years, & the league's done nothing about it. It's not an Astros problem. It's leaguewide, & always has been.

 

To take it even further, really how much of a "problem" is it? I don't think it's anywhere close to PEDs and the solution is really simple...change your signs. And even if a hitter *thinks* he knows what's coming, how certain is he? There's still the matter of execution by the hitter, pitcher, and fielders behind him. Sign stealing is and will always be a part of baseball culture, just like spitting sunflower seeds, crotch grabbing, eye black, and bat flips. 

I believe that the spark that lit everything for MLB had less to do with the problematic nature of electronic surveillance than the personal beefs of an ex-Astro pitcher and an ex-Chronicle reporter on the Astros beat who were given cover by the actions of the organization in the wake of the Brandon Taubman incident. Had the Astros won game 7, this story never comes to light because there wouldn't have been oxygen to feed it. 

[wood 11763]

51 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The MLB is taking action against sign stealing.  Or trying to at least.  Justice doesn't and shouldn't ever reside with the pitcher.  Its pointless escalation that can ultimately lead to additional justice being handed out with a bat or by even worse means.  Throwing a 90 mph fastball at someone's head intentionally is an attack with a deadly weapon.  Bobby Fischer doesn't jam a rook in someone's eye because they tried to cheat him at chess.

Had Kelly's headshot on Correa connected, would you also be okay with Correa's family seeking street justice against Kelly?  Because that is the next step really.  

Exactly. Joe Kelly knows he doesn't have to go to the plate this year, and maybe not ever again, so what is anyone gonna do to him in return? He's the guy who throws a cheapshot in the club and then runs & hides behind the bouncer. Fuck him.

[wood 11763]

16 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

 

To take it even further, really how much of a "problem" is it? I don't think it's anywhere close to PEDs and the solution is really simple...change your signs. And even if a hitter *thinks* he knows what's coming, how certain is he? There's still the matter of execution by the hitter, pitcher, and fielders behind him. Sign stealing is and will always be a part of baseball culture, just like spitting sunflower seeds, crotch grabbing, eye black, and bat flips. 

Yep. I'm fine with it ... but either crack down on it or don't. Be consistent. Don't make a big show of pinning it on one club, pretending you're fixing something that's been leaguewide for decades & is ingrained in the culture of the game, when you're really just sweeping it under the rug.

Let that bit about the players' vote sink in for a minute. Where's the outrage when it comes time for a vote on suspensions? They're covering their asses.

Edited July 31, 2020 by wood

[Gourmand 7778]

 

[Pablo 500]

Respect to Mrs. Correa today!

[Gourmand 7778]

This is fun

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[wood 11763]

4 hours ago, Gourmand said:

This is fun
 

 

 

Thanks. Dude's a pretty good follow overall...

[Beau Vine 55860]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/aerial-banner-to-protest-houston-astros

Always a good idea.

[MC Fresh Breath 4075]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:14 PM, Beau Vine said:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/aerial-banner-to-protest-houston-astros

Always a good idea.

Lulz

 

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1998784

[CowtownHorn 5126]

2 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Lulz

 

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1998784

Edited August 9, 2020 by CowtownHorn

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Think its pretty clear the cheating had a huge boost for the Astros. Even Houston realizes that now.

[Dbeasy 15561]

There are levels to cheating. Just like there are different levels of crime. There are different levels of everything. The Astros were part of the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport. Maybe any sport? What part of this do we not understand. They didn’t take your title and you pulled off the biggest cheating scandal in the sport. That in and of itself is an “accomplishment”. But I love how Astros fans are like “what, cheating is cheating” lol. There’s a reason there are different penalties for armed robbery and murder. “What, a crime is a crime” lol

[TexArcher 39037]

5 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Think its pretty clear the cheating had a huge boost for the Astros. Even Houston realizes that now.

Why, because 3 years later the Astros aren't doing as well during a very small sample while their best starter, best reliever, best young hitter, and several others are injured?

It's been shown over and over that the sign stealing did not help the Astros, as they hit better on the road in 2017.

It's also been shown over and over that the Yankees, Red Sox, and many others did the same thing.  

But somebody's gotta take the fall, and it can't be the media darlings.  So go ahead and hate Houston.  

Now you do what they told ya...

Edited August 9, 2020 by TexArcher

[Smax 3800]

Think its pretty clear the cheating had a huge boost for the Astros. Even Houston realizes that now.

Disagree, they are pressing trying to prove themselves, its human nature. Altuve especially, look at Correa who came out swinging and confronted the naysayers head on, hes doing well, Brantley same thing. Not to mention the whole 2019 season which the haters ignore..

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Joe Rogan’s podcast with Rob Lowe:

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

52 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Joe Rogan’s podcast with Rob Lowe:

 

Wearing another team's doctored logo is about as aggy as you can get. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Wearing another team's doctored logo is about as aggy as you can get. 

You’re not wrong, but it is funny he went out of his way to wear it on a podcast that was going to be seen by millions.

[TexArcher 39037]

Man, I've been wondering where Rob Lowe stood on this issue.  Now I can get some sleep tonight.

I guess Yasiel Puig playing that World Series on enough steroids to kill an elephant is totally legal and totally cool.

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 hours ago, Smax said:

Disagree, they are pressing trying to prove themselves, its human nature. Altuve especially, look at Correa who came out swinging and confronted the naysayers head on, hes doing well, Brantley same thing. Not to mention the whole 2019 season which the haters ignore..

 

They are also mostly all streak hitters that have slumps at various times of most seasons.  Every year, Springer has good season stats, but he has always alternated between ice cold and burning hot and has never been consistent.  Same with Correa. And to a lesser extent Bregman and HR Altuve. Can't afford that shit in a 60 game season though.  Need more consistent hitters like Brantley.  And need situational Altuve back instead of HR Altuve.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

9 hours ago, Smax said:

Disagree, they are pressing trying to prove themselves, its human nature. Altuve especially, look at Correa who came out swinging and confronted the naysayers head on, hes doing well, Brantley same thing. Not to mention the whole 2019 season which the haters ignore..

 

Yeah, I’m sure you guys just decided to take the moral high ground and stop cheating after winning a World Series and not getting caught. We’ll never know because there was no Mike Fiers/snitch on that team, but I think it’s safe to assume the team run by by that GM and that front office didn’t just decide to take the moral high ground and stop cheating. You guys stopped because they’re gone. But again, we’ll never know since there isn’t another snitch. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[MC Fresh Breath 4075]

 

 

[Hank Chinaski 6348]

I mean, he got hit with a 78 mph breaking ball. Not sure what the problem was. 

[Pato del Muerto 53454]

3 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

I mean, he got hit with a 78 mph breaking ball. Not sure what the problem was. 

Maybe he was upset that the Astros hit 5 A’s in the series. Maybe the Astros bench was mouthy. Maybe both. Maybe neither. 
maybe he’s really mad at his pitchers for not hitting any Astros in a series where they got hit 5 times. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[wood 11763]

Maybe he's a dumbass.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

 

[StruggleBus 3922]

What the fuck was that Laureano chick doing?

[wood 11763]

16 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

 

Sure. Hold them accountable ... just so long as we're gonna hold accountable everyone else who's doing it too, and stop pretending this is an 'Astros problem'. And so long as we're gonna be honest about the ongoing MLB culture of teams doing this at home for the last 120 years.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

32 minutes ago, wood said:

Sure. Hold them accountable ... just so long as we're gonna hold accountable everyone else who's doing it too, and stop pretending this is an 'Astros problem'. And so long as we're gonna be honest about the ongoing MLB culture of teams doing this at home for the last 120 years.

I’m just copying and pasting memes from mlb Reddit as bait, looking for people like you that can’t laugh at the meme like every other fanbase. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[wood 11763]

14 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m just copying and pasting memes from mlb Reddit as bait, looking for people like you that can’t laugh at the meme like every other fanbase. 

So you'd rather post idiotic troll bs than have an honest discussion? OK, cool. HookEm.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, wood said:

So you'd rather post idiotic troll bs than have an honest discussion? OK, cool. HookEm.

If you look through this thread I think I’ve made it pretty clear where I stand on the situation. No need to rehash it. This thread is for shit like this as well as real discussion on the situation lol. I don’t know what to tell you. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Lol wait what? So he’s just sad about the cheating scandal or is there more to this? Reddit was having a field day with this one. 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Guest]

baby Joe still butthurt.  he can die in a fire.   Coward ass motherfucker just straight up trollin now.  Hell, at least Laureano took a run at em/  took the physical risk to vent his anger.   Cherry on top is the conduit of aggy running the interview.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29651830/los-angeles-dodgers-joe-kelly-sounds-houston-astros-players-handling-sign-stealing-investigation

Edited August 13, 2020 by slorch

[Gourmand 7778]

 This will never get old but for some weird reason Dodgers fans never mention it.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

^Zack Grienke has been cheating for awhile damn

[Gourmand 7778]

4 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

^Zack Grienke has been cheating for awhile damn

also he calls out his own signs so the opposing hitters can hear them!