Coronavirus Impact on Travel

[utee94 15742]

32 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Canada border closed until at least November 21.

You see the cases spiking in Canada?  I wouldn't want to go there, either.

Except to visit brisket's daughter of course.

[DDD Dad 14167]

You see the cases spiking in Canada?  I wouldn't want to go there, either.
Except to visit brisket's daughter of course.

Or my girlfriend. Who you wouldn’t know.

[52-80 19066]

So all the lounges on my outbound airport closed, ostensibly because of stricter gov reg that went into play 2 days ago.

Then apparently there are no lounges around Z/A gates in Frankfurt, which I could have swore I've been in many times.

Wheres a man to take a shit in relative cleanliness and security ?

[Spankytoes 1735]

11 hours ago, 52-80 said:

So all the lounges on my outbound airport closed, ostensibly because of stricter gov reg that went into play 2 days ago.

Then apparently there are no lounges around Z/A gates in Frankfurt, which I could have swore I've been in many times.

Wheres a man to take a shit in relative cleanliness and security ?

In Germany? On a girl's chest.

[Mo Horn 8795]

With a vaccine coming out, when could international travel be safe and back to normal...whatever normal is? I have miles to use and had to cancel 2020 plans. Thinking about booking for late September. Too soon? I assume airlines will still be liberal with their cancellation policy if things are still crazy. What say you Surly? 

[HenryJames 65868]

Late September should be fine.

[Biff Tannen 45476]

4 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Late September should be fine.

Better be.  I'm getting outta dodge.

[DDD Dad 14167]

Welp, looks like my eldest made the right call postponing the wedding in Big Bend next week. Was going to be capped at 10 people and outdoors but still too risky.

[hornbri 1367]

 

22 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

With a vaccine coming out, when could international travel be safe and back to normal...whatever normal is? I have miles to use and had to cancel 2020 plans. Thinking about booking for late September. Too soon? I assume airlines will still be liberal with their cancellation policy if things are still crazy. What say you Surly? 

I think that will be fine, I booked a trip for late June hoping it is a little earlier. I figure the same I can cancel a little later if it does not look like we will be good yet. 

[thunderlounge 7733]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:34 PM, Mo Horn said:

With a vaccine coming out, when could international travel be safe and back to normal...whatever normal is? I have miles to use and had to cancel 2020 plans. Thinking about booking for late September. Too soon? I assume airlines will still be liberal with their cancellation policy if things are still crazy. What say you Surly? 

 

I'll tell you where my head is at. I was supposed to be headed through the southern EU countries for a few shows last summer. They were obviously postponed to this year, and are slated for June/July. 
 

I should be looking for tickets, which BA gave me a voucher for full credit (and the total before I used points, plus got the points back!). 
 

I don’t think the shows will go on, but even so, I’m not sure by June it's worth the risk. They need something like at minimum of 65% of the population vaccinated for things to settle down (IIRC) and that won’t be by then. Maybe Nov/Dec next year things will be significantly better, from reports recently on the news. 
 

Needless to say, even of the shows go on (highly unlikely), I'll be staying stateside next summer. (I may go to the Christmas markets again next Dec, but we’ll see.)

Edited December 12, 2020 by thunderlounge

[Mo Horn 8795]

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/eu-announces-plans-for-digital-covid-19-vaccine-passport/

This seems like very good news if you want to go to Europe late Summer early Fall. 

[Biff Tannen 45476]

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/eu-announces-plans-for-digital-covid-19-vaccine-passport/

This seems like very good news if you want to go to Europe late Summer early Fall. 

Does it include America though?

Quote

While still controversial, vaccine passports would enable those who’ve been fully vaccinated to move more freely between countries within the bloc, hopefully reenergizing the severely depressed travel sector in the process. 

 

[Brisketexan 104461]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Does it include America though?

 

The article discusses potentially expanding it.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19073]

I am starting to plan a trip to Paris in January 2022. I'll be fully vaccinated by then, but I have serious concerns about how far Europe will be down that road as they are doing a poor job at the moment. Not worth going to Paris if shit is closed.

[Newdoc 3429]

13 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I am starting to plan a trip to Paris in January 2022. I'll be fully vaccinated by then, but I have serious concerns about how far Europe will be down that road as they are doing a poor job at the moment. Not worth going to Paris if shit is closed.

Try to get travel plans with generous refundable/credit policies. Europe can be pretty bipolar with changes and they have a itchy trigger finger. I would imagine they will want a good period of time of steady decline and persistent low hospitalizations before confidently opening up (esp France).

My son's study abroad in UK was cancelled for the second half of summer by the UK college. It goes to show that individual institutions can also throw a wrench into travel plans so even if you can travel, will things you want to do also be opened???

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19073]

12 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Try to get travel plans with generous refundable/credit policies. Europe can be pretty bipolar with changes and they have a itchy trigger finger. I would imagine they will want a good period of time of steady decline and persistent low hospitalizations before confidently opening up (esp France).

My son's study abroad in UK was cancelled for the second half of summer by the UK college. It goes to show that individual institutions can also throw a wrench into travel plans so even if you can travel, will things you want to do also be opened???

Yeah, it is just infuriating.  If the US can overcome the do nothing administration and get our shit together post January 20, I wonder what is going in Europe that they are having these issues.  

Per my friends in London, they are anticipating being back to normal by summer and are doing great on vaccinations.  It seems like it is Europe that is screwing the pooch on this.

[midtown 3341]

34 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I wonder what is going in Europe that they are having these issues.  

Because Europeans and their governments are just as dysfunctional as everyone else. 

[HenryJames 65868]

Asians got their shit together.

[WBT 20397]

Yeah the EU decided to centralize the vaccine rollout and then dicked around trying to negotiate down prices.  What makes it look especially bad (in their eyes) is that the UK has done a very good job.

Edited March 16, 2021 by WBT

[thunderlounge 7733]

9 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I am starting to plan a trip to Paris in January 2022. I'll be fully vaccinated by then, but I have serious concerns about how far Europe will be down that road as they are doing a poor job at the moment. Not worth going to Paris if shit is closed.

You and me both. May be a UK only trip for me for the most part. I’d look after Christmas, but if I’m going when it’s cold then I’m getting my dose of Christmas markets and all the flurry of the season.

Vaccinations and what not aren’t a concern for me, but agree that it would suck if most things were closed. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19073]

You and me both. May be a UK only trip for me for the most part. I’d look after Christmas, but if I’m going when it’s cold then I’m getting my dose of Christmas markets and all the flurry of the season.
Vaccinations and what not aren’t a concern for me, but agree that it would suck if most things were closed. 

My birthday is in January, so this trip is for that. Thus the reason I'm getting antsy.

[iodeac 138]

Does anyone know if Spain is allowing visitors? A friend of mine booked travel for this August, not sure what he was thinking.

Two friends of mine are in Mexico right now, they both rented AirBnbs in different places. Really trying to fight the temptation to go and do the same

Enviado desde mi SM-G973U mediante Tapatalk

[4th&Five 41457]

Kauai is dropping their extra quarantine requirement. Planning a trip for July. 

[thunderlounge 7733]

37 minutes ago, iodeac said:

Does anyone know if Spain is allowing visitors? A friend of mine booked travel for this August, not sure what he was thinking.

Two friends of mine are in Mexico right now, they both rented AirBnbs in different places. Really trying to fight the temptation to go and do the same

Enviado desde mi SM-G973U mediante Tapatalk
 

I should be going in June. Even if events were to happen, no way am I comfortable going before October or later. 

[956 Worldwide 34313]

5 hours ago, iodeac said:

Does anyone know if Spain is allowing visitors? A friend of mine booked travel for this August, not sure what he was thinking.

Two friends of mine are in Mexico right now, they both rented AirBnbs in different places. Really trying to fight the temptation to go and do the same

Enviado desde mi SM-G973U mediante Tapatalk
 

Not coming from the U.S. and the Schengen Zone countries are almost certain to act together to lift restrictions.  They want U.S. visitors this summer but there’s a long way to go.

[Brisketexan 104461]

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not coming from the U.S. and the Schengen Zone countries are almost certain to act together to lift restrictions.  They want U.S. visitors this summer but there’s a long way to go.

Yeah.....watching that closely.  At the very least, hopeful that they get it figured out by September, for the start of the fall semester, as both kids are looking to do language studies overseas.

[956 Worldwide 34313]

22 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah.....watching that closely.  At the very least, hopeful that they get it figured out by September, for the start of the fall semester, as both kids are looking to do language studies overseas.

The EU today announced that they are trying to figure out an internal “COVID Passport”, but it will be first aimed internally to get the internal borders flowing. Greece and Italy badly want to get Americans back, but it will have a lot to do with our own progress and what all the other EU stated manage. 

[Brisketexan 104461]

Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

The EU today announced that they are trying to figure out an internal “COVID Passport”, but it will be first aimed internally to get the internal borders flowing. Greece and Italy badly want to get Americans back, but it will have a lot to do with our own progress and what all the other EU stated manage. 

Yeah, I suspect that will be the order of operations.  FIRST, they need to get their own outbreaks under control, then they need to ramp the fuck out of their vaccine admin (really, those are the same problem), then they will come up with a local COVID Passport, then they will extend it to other nations.

[956 Worldwide 34313]

Also, at least a few Foreign Ministers expressed support for an EU COVID Passport but only if it didn’t “discriminate against people who have not been vaccinated”.  If anyone here can square that circle, let me know because it seems like gibberish to me.

[elfenix 34167]

i'm running on the assumption that europe will be getting pfizer/moderna/j&j vax shortly which should help

[956 Worldwide 34313]

6 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i'm running on the assumption that europe will be getting pfizer/moderna/j&j vax shortly which should help

Another one of the sticky issues is what to do with people who are getting Sputnik and Sinopharm and the “passport.”  Hungary is already using them and others are threatening to.  But the European Medical Agency hasn’t approved them. Do they count for travel? 

Edited March 18, 2021 by 956 Worldwide

[4th&Five 41457]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:26 AM, 4th&Five said:

Kauai is dropping their extra quarantine requirement. Planning a trip for July. 

Just booked.  Used flight credit from wife and I's canceled Australia trip last March to fly us and our two girls.  Came out the same price minus 38 cents.  Crazy!

[Biff Tannen 45476]

On my first flight since November and damn if southwest doesn’t have their boarding process working like a well oiled machine. Boarding at 6:20, I was at the gate at 6:21 and they were already into the second group. Almost had to jump in with the plebs in the B group. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19073]

Parts of France going back into lockdown. Sigh.

[kevwun 15594]

You can get a flight to Hawaii out of of Austin or San Antonio for April or May right now for like $250 on Alaskan Airlines.

[thunderlounge 7733]

38 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Parts of France going back into lockdown. Lé Sigh.

fify

[wild_turkey 3150]

The EU today announced that they are trying to figure out an internal “COVID Passport”, but it will be first aimed internally to get the internal borders flowing. Greece and Italy badly want to get Americans back, but it will have a lot to do with our own progress and what all the other EU stated manage. 

For as much as the U.S. has been a laughingstock throughout the pandemic, and despite our political obstacles and our imperfect vaccine rollout, we currently look pretty good compared to much of the EU.

When you look at new COVID cases per 100,000 people, the U.S. is around 17, compared to France (40), Italy (37), and Germany (16). We are trending down and those other countries are all trending up.

Also interesting that the EU has no current plans to include the U.K. in their COVID passport. The U.K. has all of us beat right now.

[midtown 3341]

I think we will see a race for tourist dollars with countries allowing vaccinated people in.   Europe will be last I expect. 

[wild_turkey 3150]

Iceland reopened its borders to vaccinated travelers as of March 18, which includes the U.S. They are not accepting Chinese or Russian vaccines, but I think the other big vaccines are all good.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-iceland-border-idUSKBN2B91BE

I’d really like to go to Croatia in August or September, but Iceland has also been on my list and would be a great backup plan.

[4th&Five 41457]

Just got an email from United saying my credit had been extended through March of next year. That’s certainly helpful. 

[gmr548 16463]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:21 AM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Yeah, it is just infuriating.  If the US can overcome the do nothing administration and get our shit together post January 20, I wonder what is going in Europe that they are having these issues.  

Per my friends in London, they are anticipating being back to normal by summer and are doing great on vaccinations.  It seems like it is Europe that is screwing the pooch on this.

 

21 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

For as much as the U.S. has been a laughingstock throughout the pandemic, and despite our political obstacles and our imperfect vaccine rollout, we currently look pretty good compared to much of the EU.

When you look at new COVID cases per 100,000 people, the U.S. is around 17, compared to France (40), Italy (37), and Germany (16). We are trending down and those other countries are all trending up.

Also interesting that the EU has no current plans to include the U.K. in their COVID passport. The U.K. has all of us beat right now.

Probably not the thread for an in depth discussion but my cliff notes understanding is that their vaccine rollout is handled at the EU level, which is herding cats dealing with 20+ nations. Slow to get vaccine contracts on the books relative to individual national governments in the US and UK.  The point about price haggling mentioned above is also a factor. Of course, they also paused the AZ vaccine full stop over the stupid blod clot thing. As for cases, they're rising now likely because they are 1.) On a more advanced timeline with regard to B117, and 2.) Behind in the vaccine rollout. Also worth noting that they never hit the levels we did over the holidays. Europe could be a more extreme preview as to what to expect here with a regard to a rise incases fueled by B117 over the next few months. Michigan is probably a decent bellwether stateside - experiencing a pretty steep rise in cases, in line with national average in terms of vaccination rollout.

Edit: Was reading the news shortly after this post and came across this. Good information of EU's vaccination issues: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/world/europe/europe-vaccine-rollout-astrazeneca.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage 

We're looking at domestic travel and Mexico for 2021. I think Europe might be more trouble than it's worth for a good portion of this year.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by gmr548

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19073]

6 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 

Probably not the thread for an in depth discussion but my cliff notes understanding is that their vaccine rollout is handled at the EU level, which is herding cats dealing with 20+ nations. Slow to get vaccine contracts on the books relative to individual national governments in the US and UK.  The point about price haggling mentioned above is also a factor. Of course, they also paused the AZ vaccine full stop over the stupid blod clot thing. As for cases, they're rising now likely because they are 1.) On a more advanced timeline with regard to B117, and 2.) Behind in the vaccine rollout. Also worth noting that they never hit the levels we did over the holidays. Europe could be a more extreme preview as to what to expect here with a regard to a rise incases fueled by B117 over the next few months. Michigan is probably a decent bellwether stateside - experiencing a pretty steep rise in cases, in line with national average in terms of vaccination rollout.

Edit: Was reading the news shortly after this post and came across this. Good information of EU's vaccination issues: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/world/europe/europe-vaccine-rollout-astrazeneca.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage 

We're looking at domestic travel and Mexico for 2021. I think Europe might be more trouble than it's worth for a good portion of this year.

 

Yeah, I was not going to try and get to Europe until January 2022.  I actually wasn't going to travel at all until then anyway.  2022, I have some really good plans starting up, but if January 2022 gets derailed because of government incompetance, I am not going to be pleased.

And just a point on the above, the individual nations made the decisions to stop using the AZ virus.  Not the EU.  The EU itself has always maintained that the AZ vaccine is safe.  There seems to be a history of skepticism and reluctance of Brussels from the EU nations.  I have long said there needs to be some real change in the EU, and maybe this will be the catylyst?!?  Who knows.

[utee94 15742]

We're going to Playa del Carmen in July.  

Trip previously planned for Europe in June 2020, will be postponed to 2022.  Budapest, Croatia, Greece.  We were doing Budapest because we had tickets to a Eurocup game there, but with the Euro allegedly still going forward in 2021, and us not being there, we might drop Hungary from the itinerary.

[gmr548 16463]

15 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Just got an email from United saying my credit had been extended through March of next year. That’s certainly helpful. 

Same. Not a huge amount, had a work trip to Chicago on the books last March and the flight was super cheap, but nice to have.

[Biff Tannen 45476]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Yeah, I was not going to try and get to Europe until January 2022.  I actually wasn't going to travel at all until then anyway.  2022, I have some really good plans starting up, but if January 2022 gets derailed because of government incompetance, I am not going to be pleased.

If 98% of the world isn't back to normal by January 2022, we have much bigger issues.  I am headed to the Maldives in spring of 2022 come hell or high water.  And that high water is a comin' for them.

[hornmpa96 2598]

12 minutes ago, utee94 said:

We're going to Playa del Carmen in July.  

Trip previously planned for Europe in June 2020, will be postponed to 2022.  Budapest, Croatia, Greece.  We were doing Budapest because we had tickets to a Eurocup game there, but with the Euro allegedly still going forward in 2021, and us not being there, we might drop Hungary from the itinerary.

If you haven’t been to Budapest before, I wouldn’t drop it. It’s a beautiful city.

[utee94 15742]

20 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

If you haven’t been to Budapest before, I wouldn’t drop it. It’s a beautiful city.

Thanks, haven't been there and definitely want to see it.  It just makes the travel more awkward, since it's further out.  We've done short flights on cheap carriers to manage similar in the past, but this time we booked an overnight train that took care of most of it, and we'll probably stick with that.  Still, we're entertaining all options since we gained an additional (unwanted) two years to plan it.

 

[hornbri 1367]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

If 98% of the world isn't back to normal by January 2022, we have much bigger issues.  I am headed to the Maldives in spring of 2022 come hell or high water.  And that high water is a comin' for them.

I am going in September. They are open to travel right now so we went ahead and booked. 

[Damor 1232]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

If 98% of the world isn't back to normal by January 2022, we have much bigger issues.  I am headed to the Maldives in spring of 2022 come hell or high water.  And that high water is a comin' for them.

Yeah, we're gonna need you and @hornbri to go ahead and start a Maldives thread, OK?  Thaaanks.  /lumbergh

[Sam Lin 3540]

13 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

If 98% of the world isn't back to normal by January 2022, we have much bigger issues.

There is no way 98% of the world in population or in countries will be "back to normal" by Jan 2022. If we're lucky, first world countries <might> be there in that timeframe. This is where 'new normal' comes in; variants of this virus will remain in our populations just like the cold and flu. It's up to policy makers and countries to determine what level of risk they are comfortable with.

Vaccine availability and logistics chains preclude most countries being able to vaccinate the majority of their population this year, and that's totally ignoring the costs and assuming wealthy nations plan to subsidize vaccines for everyone else. On top of that, the virus is mutating faster than vaccine development and we already see how much the vaccine efficacy varies between existing variants. There's a very real chance that a mutation makes a good majority of current vaccinations ineffective, resulting in us back at square one and needing to resume containment until a new vaccine gets disseminated.

I hate to be a downer, and sincerely hope I'm wrong. But it's 10mo to Jan and there is so much that still needs to happen if we want "normal" to be safely doable.