Coronavirus Impact on Travel

[MAROON 445]

6 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Deposition in Atlanta Friday.  The 13th.  Yay.

Flying to ATL as well on Friday so this hits close to home.  I’ll be the one on the plane spraying everyone with a spray bottle filled with Tito’s Vodka (HEB sold out of Lysol)

[smuggs 9,342]

I'm going to see KISS at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette on Saturday night. I'm hoping what with all of the other usual viruses that are congregating at a KISS concert at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette, that there physically won't be any room for the corona virus to loiter about. Pray for me.

 

 

[wild_turkey 3,152]

Just canceled a flight form CDG to Milan and back from Venice to CDG today.  Air France gave full credit (we are going to rebook the full trip for later this tear)

 

For those of you rebooking later in the year, what makes you think this will be any better at any point in 2020? Or is it just wishful thinking?

[Junior Miller 1,502]

59 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 

For those of you rebooking later in the year, what makes you think this will be any better at any point in 2020? Or is it just wishful thinking?

 

[justhookit 4,177]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

 

For those of you rebooking later in the year, what makes you think this will be any better at any point in 2020? Or is it just wishful thinking?

Well if it’s not better by late summer/fall  then taking a trip to Europe will be the least of our concerns.

But really the problem with traveling this month and April is the uncertainty of what’s going to happen. For me and I assume most of the other people in this thread that are postponing travel to Europe we are assuming there will be a hard go or no-go in a few months.

[HenryJames 65,887]

1 hour ago, smuggs said:

I'm going to see KISS at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette on Saturday night. I'm hoping what with all of the other usual viruses that are congregating at a KISS concert at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette, that there physically won't be any room for the corona virus to loiter about. Pray for me.

 

 

Shit, coronavirus would be a detox.

[Loco 3,752]

It's a bit of a local rag...  but this is kind of aggravating... 

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/coronavirus-norwegian-cruise-line-leaked-emails-show-booking-strategy-11590056

Quote

 

Cruise ships have long been called floating petri dishes. And COVID-19, the illness caused by novel coronavirus, means rough seas ahead for the cruise industry.

The State Department over the weekend warned all U.S. citizens, especially those with underlying health conditions, against cruise travel. Such warnings, combined with travelers' own fears, are harming one of South Florida's largest industries.

In the wake of the epidemic, a Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL) employee in South Florida tells New Times some managers have asked sales staff to lie to customers about COVID-19 to protect the company's bookings.

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"These discussions take place every day. And even during our department meetings, managers tell us that it isn't a big deal, that more people die from other things," says the employee, who asked to remain anonymous owing to fear of retaliation. "[They're] constantly underestimating it."

Emails leaked to New Times show that a senior sales manager at NCL's Miami office came up with canned responses for the sales team to use if potential customers expressed concerns about COVID-19.

"Team," the email reads in part, "these are one liner's [sic] to help you close your guests that are on the fence. DO NOT USE THESE unless the coronavirus is brought up."

Some of the lines in the script pressure a fictitious customer to book a cruise immediately to avoid paying more later.

"Mr Becker," the line reads, "due to the Coronavirus we have cancelled all of our Asia cruises on the Norwegian Spirit. This has caused a huge surge in demand for all of our other itineraries. I suggest we secure your reservation today to avoid you paying more tomorrow." (News reports, on the other hand, suggest cruise lines are suffering from a spate of canceled trips rather than experiencing high demand. NCL's stock price has fallen more than 35 percent in recent days.)

Other lines simply reassure customers not to be afraid.

"The only thing you need to worry about for your cruise is do you have enough sunscreen?" one of the suggested talking points reads.

Yet some of the recommended responses are blatantly false. For instance, cruise bookers were instructed to tell potential customers coronavirus is not a concern in warm Caribbean climates.

"The Coronavirus can only survive in cold temperatures, so the Caribbean is a fantastic choice for your next cruise," one talking point reads.

"Scientists and medical professionals have confirmed that the warm weather of the spring will be the end of the Coronavirus," a second says.

Another line instructs that "the Coronavirus cannot live in the amazingly warm and tropical temperatures that your cruise will be sailing to."

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), seasonal flu viruses exist year-round in the U.S. but are most prevalent in the fall and winter. The common cold is more widespread in winter and spring, although it can also be diagnosed at any time.

Spring typically marks the end of flu season in the U.S., reportedly because of increasing temperatures and humidity. But scientists and medical experts have said they don't know enough about the new coronavirus to say how it will react to warmer temperatures.

"Hardly anyone in this country has been exposed to the new virus, so there's been no chance to develop immunity," the Los Angeles Times reports. "That means the coronavirus has plenty of opportunity to infect people and get passed along."

Norwegian didn't respond to multiple requests for comment from New Times. But after New Times sent those requests, a manager emailed some employees saying New Times was "working on a nasty story" and that the company "won't be responding as agreed" to the request. The email was then leaked to New Times by an employee. The same manager emailed staff saying "the Media is trying to trick employees at cruise lines to say stuff about corona" and warning them to be careful.

Other communications leaked to New Times show the cruise line's managers are actively trying to find whoever "ratted and lied" about the company.

It's too soon to know a lot about COVID-19, such as exact death and survival rates and whether people can develop immunity after recovering from the virus. The majority of people who've tested positive for the virus have survived.

Given the uncertainty, the NCL employee who spoke with New Times has concerns about managers spreading misinformation internally. For example, one sales manager sent an article from a website called the Education Magazine that pushes anti-vaxxer theories and claims that media coverage of pandemics is full of "hidden motives." The article further states that media "often practices Hypodermic Needle Theory to inject messages directly into the brains of a passive audience."

"It's straight-up hoaxes," the employee tells New Times.

The worker also says NCL seems more worried about its profits than the health and safety of travelers — and some sales staffers now feel pressured to persuade customers not to cancel their trips. Some customers, despite their concerns, have caved and kept their reservations. Many more are canceling cruises, even if it means losing thousands of dollars.

The employee who spoke with New Times says they have not personally used any of the "one-liners" with clients because they feel uncomfortable doing so. They spent most of a recent workday taking calls from customers wanting to cancel.

"We are hardly selling anything," the employee says. "Sales are at serious lows."

Members of the sales team lose any commission on a booking if the cruise is canceled, according to the employee. They are required to meet daily quotas — about 150 calls to potential customers, five hours on the phone, and three to five bookings.

"If you don't hit quota, you will absolutely be fired," the employee says. "No exceptions for [the] current virus situation. You may be put on a personal improvement plan for 30 days but [that] basically means you're done."

The employee says managers are trying to downplay the disruption in sales "at all costs."

Jim Walker, a Miami maritime attorney who writes about the cruise industry, says cruise lines regularly issue talking points to the media, travel agents, and sometimes employees to "put a happy face" on stories during  crisis situations. After the Costa Concordia's fatal capsizing in 2012, Walker detailed some of the talking points — and reported misinformation — spread by the cruise industry and travel publications.

Walker says what Norwegian is reportedly asking employees to tell customers about COVID-19 is unethical at best.

"There's a lot of funny business like this that's going on," Walker says. "It's kind of shocking to hear but doesn't particularly surprise me."

President Donald Trump on Monday said his administration plans to help the cruise and airline industries struggling amid the coronavirus outbreak. But yesterday, Vice President Mike Pence remained mum on the potential bailouts and instead said the administration would review cruise industry proposals on how to improve health and safety plans on ships.

Walker says the cruise industry wants people to believe this is the best time to go on a cruise and that the industry is taking their concerns seriously. But he doesn't feel that's the case.

"The reality is they've never had good protocols," Walker says. "They're telling people what they want to hear."

 

 

[CooterBrown 17,904]

Got an email from Hilton offering 3 nights for $299 total at any NYC Hilton that's priced below $500/night.  It includes a 25,000 point bonus.

 

[Iceman 2,639]

2 hours ago, smuggs said:

I'm going to see KISS at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette on Saturday night. I'm hoping what with all of the other usual viruses that are congregating at a KISS concert at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette, that there physically won't be any room for the corona virus to loiter about. Pray for me.

 

 

good friend went to Kiss in LBK last night.

Just says his head hurts like a motherfucker...LOlz.  I asked him from the music or being hungover...he shot me a pic of empty booze bottles.

[HenryJames 65,887]

26 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Got an email from Hilton offering 3 nights for $299 total at any NYC Hilton that's priced below $500/night.  It includes a 25,000 point bonus.

 

doit.gif

[AustinMT 952]

2 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

 

For those of you rebooking later in the year, what makes you think this will be any better at any point in 2020? Or is it just wishful thinking?

Yeah -- I should say hoping to rebook.  We'll see what it looks like in a couple of months and go from there.  Good thing is that the largest expense was airfare from US to France, which I can use to fly somewhere else that may (?) be better

[dcbc 14,404]

Well, my kid tested positive for the flu (a-strain) on Sunday.  Tamiflu knocked it out within a couple of days for him, but not before I got it (I should have asked for it, too, as a caregiver).  But I figured as the only one left in my family who hasn't had the flu this year (we all had the flu shot), I had to buck the odds.  Long story short, I have the flu.  Hit up the teledoc this morning and am off to pick up some tamiflu.

Yes, I know it's not COVID19, but I'm sick, sitting in front of the keyboard, and am bored.

[HenryJames 65,887]

sitting in front of the keyboard, and am bored.

[Francisco 2.0 32,318]

This gonna leave a mark:

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/coronavirus-norwegian-cruise-line-leaked-emails-show-booking-strategy-11590056

Quote

Cruise ships have long been called floating petri dishes. And COVID-19, the illness caused by the novel coronavirus, means rough seas ahead for the cruise industry.

The State Department over the weekend warned all U.S. citizens, especially those with underlying health conditions, against cruise travel. Such warnings, combined with travelers' fears, are harming one of South Florida's largest industries.

 

Quote

In the wake of the epidemic, a Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL) employee in South Florida tells New Times some managers have asked sales staff to lie to customers about COVID-19 to protect the company's bookings.

 

Quote

"These discussions take place every day. And even during our department meetings, managers tell us that it isn't a big deal, that more people die from other things," says the employee, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation. "[They're] constantly underestimating it."

Emails leaked to New Times show that a senior sales manager at NCL's Miami office came up with canned responses for the sales team to use if potential customers expressed concerns about COVID-19.

 

Quote

Team," the email reads in part, "these are one liner's [sic] to help you close your guests that are on the fence. DO NOT USE THESE unless the coronavirus is brought up."

Some of the lines in the script pressure a fictitious customer to book a cruise immediately to avoid paying more later.

"Mr Becker," the line reads, "due to the Coronavirus we have cancelled all of our Asia cruises on the Norwegian Spirit. This has caused a huge surge in demand for all of our other itineraries. I suggest we secure your reservation today to avoid you paying more tomorrow." (News reports, on the other hand, suggest cruise lines are suffering from a spate of canceled trips rather than experiencing high demand. NCL's stock price has fallen more than 35 percent in recent days.)

Other script lines simply reassure customers not to be afraid.

"The only thing you need to worry about for your cruise is do you have enough sunscreen?" one of the suggested talking points reads.

Some of the recommended responses are blatantly false. For instance, cruise bookers were instructed to tell potential customers that coronavirus is not a concern in warm Caribbean climates.

"The Coronavirus can only survive in cold temperatures, so the Caribbean is a fantastic choice for your next cruise," one talking point reads.

"Scientists and medical professionals have confirmed that the warm weather of the spring will be the end of the Coronavirus," reads a second.

Another line says coronavirus "cannot live in the amazingly warm and tropical temperatures that your cruise will be sailing to."

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), seasonal flu viruses exist year-round in the United States but are most prevalent in the fall and winter. The common cold is more widespread in winter and spring, although it can also be diagnosed at any time.

Spring typically marks the end of flu season in the States, reportedly because of increasing temperatures and humidity. But scientists and medical experts have said they don't know enough about the new coronavirus to say how it will react to warmer temperatures.

"Hardly anyone in this country has been exposed to the new virus, so there's been no chance to develop immunity," the Los Angeles Times reports. "That means the coronavirus has plenty of opportunity to infect people and get passed along."

Norwegian didn't respond to multiple requests for comment. But after New Times sent those requests, a manager emailed some employees to say this publication was "working on a nasty story" and that the company "won't be responding as agreed" to the request. An employee leaked the email to New Times. The same manager emailed staff saying "the Media is trying to trick employees at cruise lines to say stuff about corona" and warning them to be careful.

Other communications leaked to New Times show the cruise line's managers are trying to find the employee who "ratted and lied" about the company.

It's too soon to know much about COVID-19, such as exact death and survival rates and whether people can develop immunity after recovering from the virus. The vast majority of people who've tested positive for the virus have survived.

Given the uncertainty, the NCL employee who spoke with New Times has concerns about managers spreading misinformation internally. For example, one sales manager sent an article from the website Education Magazine that pushes anti-vaxxer theories and claims that media coverage of pandemics is full of "hidden motives." The article further states the media "often practices Hypodermic Needle Theory to inject messages directly into the brains of a passive audience."

"It's straight-up hoaxes," the employee tells New Times.

The worker also says NCL seems more concerned about its profits than the health and safety of travelers — and some sales staffers now feel pressured to persuade customers not to cancel their trips. Some customers, despite their worries, have caved and kept their reservations. Many others are canceling cruises even if it means losing thousands of dollars.

The employee who spoke with New Times says they have not personally used any of the "one-liners" with clients because they feel uncomfortable doing so. They spent most of a recent workday taking calls from customers wanting to cancel.

"We are hardly selling anything," the employee says. "Sales are at serious lows."

Members of the sales team lose any commission on a booking if the cruise is canceled, according to the employee. They are required to meet daily quotas — about 150 calls to potential customers, five hours on the phone, and three to five bookings.

"If you don't hit quota, you will absolutely be fired," the employee says. "No exceptions for [the] current virus situation. You may be put on a personal improvement plan for 30 days, but [that] basically means you're done."

The employee says managers are trying to downplay the disruption in sales "at all costs."

Jim Walker, a Miami maritime attorney who writes about the cruise industry, says cruise lines regularly issue talking points to the media, travel agents, and sometimes employees to "put a happy face" on stories during crisis situations. After the Costa Concordia's fatal capsizing in 2012, Walker detailed some of the talking points — and reported misinformation — spread by the cruise industry and travel publications.

Walker says what Norwegian is reportedly asking employees to tell customers about COVID-19 is unethical at best.

There's a lot of funny business like this that's going on," Walker says. "It's kind of shocking to hear but doesn't particularly surprise me."

President Donald Trump this past Monday said his administration plans to help the cruise and airline industries struggling amid the coronavirus outbreak. But yesterday, Vice President Mike Pence remained mum on the potential bailouts and instead said the administration would review cruise industry proposals about how to improve health and safety plans on ships.

Walker says the cruise industry wants people to believe that now is the best time to go on a cruise and that the industry is taking their concerns seriously. But he doesn't believe that's the case.

"The reality is they've never had good protocols," he says. "They're telling people what they want to hear."

 

 

[DaysOff 7,851]

Last day in Paris after 5 days. Probably safer here than downtown Austin. The whole social distancing thing was easy since the city is as empty as it can get. Only concern was the Metro, but we'd let a train go by and wait three minutes for the next one if looked too full. Au revoir for now.

[HoustonHorn 1,059]

So I'm heading to Whistler next week for a family ski vacation. What are the odds of travel restrictions impacting my ability to fly back to the US? Also, if I can't fly, would it be possible to drive across the border back to the US?

 

sorry if this has been asked/answered - haven't read the entire thread.

[Hank_Hill 18,486]

Copped $35 round trip to Denver in two weeks. Viral pneumonia is tight.

[Mo Horn 8,807]

3 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

 

For those of you rebooking later in the year, what makes you think this will be any better at any point in 2020? Or is it just wishful thinking?

We have a trip booked to Italy in September. The only way I'm not going is if the borders are closed. If the fight goes, we'll be on it. 

[mdmost 42,844]

We have a San Diego/Disneyland trip scheduled for the first week of June. I'm assuming somewhere along the way, Disneyland will need to shut down. It's happened in the other parks they have in China, Hong Kong, and Japan. Disneyland Paris will be next. The good thing is our hotel is refundable, our tickets are good through 2021, and our airfare can be switched to a later date. Till an announcement is made, we're treating it as if things will still be good to go. For Spring Break, we're going to Big Bend, which I think might be the best place to go right now. We're still taking wipes and hand san and also plan to wash our hands as often as possible. 

[Wild Bill 324]

Well dangit. Just found out my July scheduled 8day job in Vegas has been cancelled. 

[HenryJames 65,887]

29 minutes ago, Wild Bill said:

Well dangit. Just found out my July scheduled 8day job in Vegas has been cancelled. 

 

[NIUHuskies 504]

16 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

 

Lifesavers Conference?

 

Yes that is correct. For me, the Texas Library Association cancelled its conference today. It was to be held in Houston in two weeks.

[TXSooner518 2,432]

3 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

Yes that is correct. For me, the Texas Library Association cancelled its conference today. It was to be held in Houston in two weeks.

LOL wow the crossover. My office was sending two people to Lifesavers (they had actually elected to not go the same day it was cancelled) and my ex-wife was doing TLA. She's super bummed. 

[NIUHuskies 504]

34 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

LOL wow the crossover. My office was sending two people to Lifesavers (they had actually elected to not go the same day it was cancelled) and my ex-wife was doing TLA. She's super bummed. 

Small world....

[Gladeite 375]

Arrived at jfk around 11:00 am.  Our flight from austin was pretty full but the airport was a ghost town.  I would guess less than 20% of the normal crowd.  Light traffic from airport to Central Park.  Very few people walking around Central Park or 5th Avenue.   Told we could walk into any coveted restaurant in town tonight.  Shows are 1/2 price. 

[Carl Spackler 3,461]

7 hours ago, smuggs said:

I'm going to see KISS at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette on Saturday night. I'm hoping what with all of the other usual viruses that are congregating at a KISS concert at the Cajun Dome in Lafayette, that there physically won't be any room for the corona virus to loiter about. Pray for me.

 

 

Can probably apply just about anywhere in Louisiana, so seems appropriate.

 

[hornbri 1,370]

3 hours ago, HoustonHorn said:

So I'm heading to Whistler next week for a family ski vacation. What are the odds of travel restrictions impacting my ability to fly back to the US? Also, if I can't fly, would it be possible to drive across the border back to the US?

 

sorry if this has been asked/answered - haven't read the entire thread.

I am doing the same thing starting Saturday. That would be my biggest concern but so far the US has only restricted traffic from heavily infected countries and so far Canada is not close to that. I suppose I will watch the news while I am there and if Canada has a spike or something we could come back early. 

[msbesq 385]

Italy cancelled us this month. We decided to go to London and Paris in October. If we can't go in October then Europe will have plagued itself to death by then.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

Turkish Airlines is a fucking nightmare to deal with in trying to get a refund. I called their toll free number and was told to visit a local sales office or go online to apply for a refund. There was no option to do so when I went to their website. Fucking go to Terminal D at IAH and after waiting a few hours in line was told that they will not refund my money but instead I can use the value of the ticket up to one year. They refused to deal with my Turkey domestic flight. Feel like I was purposefully given the runaround. Fuckers

[b_p 450]

On my way to London tonight. The flight is less than 30% full. I expect a lot more capacity cuts as this continues and it probably won’t rebound quickly. It’s amazing how much of an impact the media has caused due to over-sensationalized flu. However, it is nice to travel now that everything is so quiet. 

[4th&Five 41,457]

I fly to Sydney on Saturday. Hoping for my own row. 

[Brisketexan 104,558]

Flew back and forth to DAL the last 24 hrs. Almost all of my work travel is in-state. I think I’ll drive from now on till this cools down.

I did get to sit on a row with a really cute nurse in her scrubs, I shared my alcohol wipes with her and she shared her zinc lozenges with me. So that was nice.

[DCA_HORN 725]

Flew to ord from iah today. Both airports seemed to be operating as usual. Didn't see many masks. Flight was about 90% full.

[C-Man 27,041]

Trump has put a halt on travel to and from Europe for 30 days starting Friday. UK not included.

 

[Dbeasy 14,963]

On my way to London tonight. The flight is less than 30% full. I expect a lot more capacity cuts as this continues and it probably won’t rebound quickly. It’s amazing how much of an impact the media has caused due to over-sensationalized flu. However, it is nice to travel now that everything is so quiet. 

Uh oh. Hope your near a tv.

[C-Man 27,041]

On my way to London tonight. The flight is less than 30% full. I expect a lot more capacity cuts as this continues and it probably won’t rebound quickly. It’s amazing how much of an impact the media has caused due to over-sensationalized flu. However, it is nice to travel now that everything is so quiet. 

Hope you’re planning a short stay!

[RPM 26,215]

How many Surlies are stranded in Europe now?

[TonyTexas 10,481]

8 minutes ago, C-Man said:

 

Hope you’re planning a short stay!

 

Or a long one. 

[AustinMT 952]

24 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Trump has put a halt on travel to and from Europe for 30 days starting Friday. UK not included.

 

Saying this as a life-long Republican.  Trump is a f****** idiot who is just trying to make press.  This makes no medical sense — it’s already here.

As noted above, had a trip planned to France and Italy mid April-early May. Canceled all 2 days ago, and everything refunded or credits given.  Waiting on a couple, but out at most about $500, though I expect that to go down. Glad I already did it to save me time on the phone now

Did I mention Trump is a moron?

[ernest_t_bass 1,196]

8 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

We have a trip booked to Italy in September. The only way I'm not going is if the borders are closed. If the fight goes, we'll be on it. 

This is our stance on our trip to Costa Rica next Saturday.  If the flight is leaving, we're on it.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,389]

How many Surlies are stranded in Europe now?

I was close to being one. Sometimes being an asshole pays off.

[tfoolry 8,179]

Getting a refund should be no problem now. 

[Francisco 2.0 32,318]

2 hours ago, b_p said:

On my way to London tonight. The flight is less than 30% full. I expect a lot more capacity cuts as this continues and it probably won’t rebound quickly. It’s amazing how much of an impact the media has caused due to over-sensationalized flu. However, it is nice to travel now that everything is so quiet. 

What the fuck.

 

[AustinMT 952]

13 minutes ago, tfoolry said:

Getting a refund should be no problem now. 

Ahh... wouldn’t count on that. Push for a refund, hope  for a credit

Edited March 12, 2020 by AustinMT

[tfoolry 8,179]

16 minutes ago, AustinMT said:

Ahh... wouldn’t count on that. Push for a refund, hope  for a credit

Carriers & travel companies don’t want any more chargebacks right now.  Not pursuing tomorrow though as little chance getting someone live.  

[The Dog 43,792]

went ahead and bailed on Disney World. Rescheduled for August when it will be too damn hot for any virus to live. 

[bluto 4,883]

The local news had an update on euro ban at the end of the newscast, it’s WAY more lax than trump made it seem.

[conVINCEd 21,468]

20 minutes ago, bluto said:

The local news had an update on euro ban at the end of the newscast, it’s WAY more lax than trump made it seem.

Of course it is.  You can’t sell condos to a bunch of shady Russians and Eastern Europeans and then tell them they aren’t allowed to come here and use them.

[Blackcat00 759]

3 hours ago, AustinMT said:

Saying this as a life-long Republican.  Trump is a f****** idiot who is just trying to make press.  This makes no medical sense — it’s already here.

As noted above, had a trip planned to France and Italy mid April-early May. Canceled all 2 days ago, and everything refunded or credits given.  Waiting on a couple, but out at most about $500, though I expect that to go down. Glad I already did it to save me time on the phone now

Did I mention Trump is a moron?

Can't imagine he did himself any favors after tonight. Was really hoping he would have something. 

[Helobious 9,480]

5 hours ago, b_p said:

On my way to London tonight. The flight is less than 30% full. I expect a lot more capacity cuts as this continues and it probably won’t rebound quickly. It’s amazing how much of an impact the media has caused due to over-sensationalized flu. However, it is nice to travel now that everything is so quiet. 

China definitely went through quarantine measures never before seen in human history for something that’s just as bad as the flu. They just care about their citizens that much.