The New Car Fanatic Thread

[TwiceHorn 31495]

40 minutes ago, Sam Lin said:

It's not there to save you gas. It's there to help the automaker meet emissions requirements on a standardized test cycle. My Mazda eats a battery every 2 years, and the battery needs to be a heavier duty partial deep cycle battery to survive the increase charge discharge cycles. The fuel savings definitely does not outweigh the battery costs.

One thing, though, I have only experienced stop/start with a relatively tiny 2.0 four-banger, so it's pretty easy to start.  I assume your Mazda is similar in that regard.

AFAIK, it's on everything sold in the US now, and it's probably miserable on a bigger V6 or V8.

I was digging around to check my facts and there's a guy on the cadillacforums that's a Tceh graduate and former GM engineer that is or seems very astute on matters technical, and he was the one I believe that stated that the GM/Cadilliac stop/start relies on a capacitor discharge system.  I can't find his post, but I can find references to capacitor failure and replacement.

Here's another article that references it.  https://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/09/2016-cadillac-cts-and-ats-to-employ-ultra-capacitors-with-start-stop-systems/

Apparently, then, this is true, but not universal among start/stop systems.  GM actually comes up with some pretty good shit sometimes. But, I can factually allege that I am driving a 2017 ATS built in April 2017 that's still on the OEM battery and giving good voltage and healthy starts, and that's about what I tend to get from OEM batteries, except a Honda battery in an Acura that died early and they apparently are fairly notorious for that.

[TwiceHorn 31495]

Another weird thing.  I have all the driver-assistance features except adaptive cruise.

I don't believe I have ever seen a report of any of that tech failing, and it's been around for a while now.  That kind of surprises the shit out of me.  And you just know people would bitch about it.  Reading car forums can scare the shit out of you there's so much bitching.

[Okie State 3821]

It's not there to save you gas. It's there to help the automaker meet emissions requirements on a standardized test cycle. My Mazda eats a battery every 2 years, and the battery needs to be a heavier duty partial deep cycle battery to survive the increase charge discharge cycles. The fuel savings definitely does not outweigh the battery costs.

Right, meet emissions through burning less gas. I didn't mean that any of it was to benefit the consumer. We all know better than that.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Drove my buddy’s Rivian SUV and it was fucking awesome.

[52-80 19163]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:36 AM, GoPokes83 said:

My wife bought a new car and it has the feature where the engine stops at stoplights/signs or whenever you come to a complete stop, then restarts when you press on the gas and move forward. Aside from giving me an “Oh shit, the car just died” every time it happens, isn’t this going to eventually cause extra wear on the starter and battery?

a well designed system, no.  engine is already warmed.  system uses various tricks like stopping the motor with piston located properly  (i.e. tdc) so that the turnover is very low effort.  my bmw was like this and the effort was seamless.  alfa romeo... turd, and complete annoyance.

bmw also has a live drive score system that rates your eco friendliness based on acceleration rate and other factors.  it was mildly fun to view it as a game.  i achieved a full 5* on one long leg of a trip compared to 2-3* which is my normal driving habit.  what does that save over a full tank of fuel?  like $1 worth.

best way to increase fuel efficiency?  drive slower.  not all this EPA-trickery.

[USCATX 1078]

Does anybody have a PPF guy in Austin (west side ideally) that they like?  I want to get the ZL1 front end done because daily driving was hell on the GT350 paint.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Another weird thing.  I have all the driver-assistance features except adaptive cruise.

That’s awesome.  I cannot stand it when diving the wife’s car.   In regards to the seamless auto start. I’m in a lot of rentals for work, there are some that are much better than others.  Saw a hack on a tiktok how to remove it in GMs, I believe this particular Buick had no way to turn it off. It was a simple pig tail they wired in. I can’t recall but it was in a weird location, too. Not somewhere you’d think. 

[cabowabo 4487]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:16 PM, Okie State said:

On 1/12/2023 at 5:36 PM, GoPokes83 said:

My wife bought a new car and it has the feature where the engine stops at stoplights/signs or whenever you come to a complete stop, then restarts when you press on the gas and move forward. Aside from giving me an “Oh shit, the car just died” every time it happens, isn’t this going to eventually cause extra wear on the starter and battery?

I hate it. Our Volvo has a separate battery for it that died at 2 years. You can turn it off manually, but it defaults to back on automatically. I have a hard time believing the minimal gas savings justify the extra wear and tear, but I have no data to back that up.

We have a 2018 Volvo XC90 and I will never buy another Volvo again.  Has had numerous issues.  Last week, the turn signals and all steering wheel controls stopped working. I knew it was a faulty steering wheel module, but did not want to DIY it because of the airbag.  $700 later to dealership we are back in business.  I hate the engine stop shit mentioned and the HVAC is loud as shit even in the low setting. I can’t stand that everything is controlled on the touch screen.  I fucking hate this car.  
 

With the recent Tesla price drop and the $7500 tax credit, thinking about trading the Volvo for a Model Y.  Aside from my wife not being able to figure shit out on a Tesla, any other reason why I shouldn’t?

Edited January 15, 2023 by cabowabo

[52-80 19163]

1 hour ago, cabowabo said:

With the recent Tesla price drop and the $7500 tax credit, thinking about trading the Volvo for a Model Y.  Aside from my wife not being able to figure shit out on a Tesla, any other reason why I shouldn’t?

I like loud, rough riding sporty cars that smell of burnt fuel. I still do. But I bought a Tesla reluctantly, because the various govt benefits were too good. 

Over time I become more convinced its like the best automobile ever. In general most electric drivetrain is better than most combustion, but also specifically Tesla’s human-machine interface (HMI) is better than other EVs. 

It’s like going from a full keyboard blackberry to an iphone.

(bring on the hate)

 

[Okie State 3821]

We have a 2018 Volvo XC90 and I will never buy another Volvo again.  Has had numerous issues.  Last week, the turn signals and all steering wheel controls stopped working. I knew it was a faulty steering wheel module, but did not want to DIY it because of the airbag.  $700 later to dealership we are back in business.  I hate the engine stop shit mentioned and the HVAC is loud as shit even in the low setting. I can’t stand that everything is controlled on the touch screen.  I fucking hate this car.  
 
With the recent Tesla price drop and the $7500 tax credit, thinking about trading the Volvo for a Model Y.  Aside from my wife not being able to figure shit out on a Tesla, any other reason why I shouldn’t?

We like it overall and I'd probably buy another one. It hasn't been without a few issues, but that goes for every car I've ever owned. We'll see how it goes over the next few years.

[cabowabo 4487]

The Tesla would mostly be for in town driving/charge at home.   One question I have is about highway charging stations.  For you Tesla/EV owners, on road trips do you ever have to wait for a charging station to open up when stop to recharge?  Not sure I could deal with that if that is a common thing. With more and more EVs on the road, I could see that being a problem. 

[ohchaucer 1443]

We have a 2018 Volvo XC90 and I will never buy another Volvo again.  Has had numerous issues.  Last week, the turn signals and all steering wheel controls stopped working. I knew it was a faulty steering wheel module, but did not want to DIY it because of the airbag.  $700 later to dealership we are back in business.  I hate the engine stop shit mentioned and the HVAC is loud as shit even in the low setting. I can’t stand that everything is controlled on the touch screen.  I fucking hate this car.  
 
With the recent Tesla price drop and the $7500 tax credit, thinking about trading the Volvo for a Model Y.  Aside from my wife not being able to figure shit out on a Tesla, any other reason why I shouldn’t?

I can’t speak to the Tesla question but we had a 2017 xc90 that had all kinds of electronics issues and with the climate system (which, again is all linked to the interface and cpu). Finally, after third “reboot” by the dealer we traded it for a 2021 and it’s been flawless. Our guy at Volvo basically said that 16-18 model years were just glitchy in about one out of ten made. They apparently overhauled it in 2018. Also had issues with the auto-start override.

[cabowabo 4487]

6 minutes ago, ohchaucer said:

I can’t speak to the Tesla question but we had a 2017 xc90 that had all kinds of electronics issues and with the climate system (which, again is all linked to the interface and cpu). Finally, after third “reboot” by the dealer we traded it for a 2021 and it’s been flawless. Our guy at Volvo basically said that 16-18 model years were just glitchy in about one out of ten made. They apparently overhauled it in 2018. Also had issues with the auto-start override.

Yep, the AC gave out in ours too.  Luckily, we were in the warranty period. Now that we are outside warranty coverage, I am looking to get rid of this POS. 

[52-80 19163]

22 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

The Tesla would mostly be for in town driving/charge at home.   One question I have is about highway charging stations.  For you Tesla/EV owners, on road trips do you ever have to wait for a charging station to open up when stop to recharge?  Not sure I could deal with that if that is a common thing. With more and more EVs on the road, I could see that being a problem. 

3 years ownership.  almost 40k miles total.  i've taken it on like 7 trips of 1000 miles each way.

had maybe 3 or 4 instances of waiting, for about 15 minutes on average.  most of those were at the same station that has since been expanded.  i think need to think about charging at all.

[Your Mom 4806]

1 hour ago, cabowabo said:

The Tesla would mostly be for in town driving/charge at home.   One question I have is about highway charging stations.  For you Tesla/EV owners, on road trips do you ever have to wait for a charging station to open up when stop to recharge?  Not sure I could deal with that if that is a common thing. With more and more EVs on the road, I could see that being a problem. 

Not exactly what you asked about, but worth considering… It was recently pointed out in the Tesla thread that non-Tesla EVs still can’t use Tesla Superchargers.  It’s been announced that they’ll be able to, but I think it’s not been enacted yet.  And when they enacted that change in Europe it ended up being for only a select few stations, not the whole network.  They can use the slower Destination chargers, but most of the charging stations along highway routes are Superchargers and in Texas we don’t a big network of non-Tesla charging stations yet.  It’s mostly the random chargers in an Econo-Lodge or Pizza Hut parking lot.  

I don’t want to give more money to Tesla but it seems like having an EV of any other brand would be a huge hassle if you plan on any type of road trips.  

[G650 14263]

4 hours ago, Your Mom said:

I don’t want to give more money to Tesla but it seems like having an EV of any other brand would be a huge hassle if you plan on any type of road trips.  

Not really. There's an insane amount of fast charger stations out there. I really didn't realize how many until I got my iX.

 

@cabowabo I'd recommend looking at the BMW or Merc EVs if you want to take the plunge. The main reason not to buy a Tesla is they are abject hunks of shit with awful adaptive systems that kill people on the reg. Plus you said you hate touchscreen which is basically the whole interface for most EVs.

 

I honestly would have  a hard time going back to a gas vehicle for commuting at this point, which surprises me greatly. EVs are just insanely good and convenient for it. I've been to a gas station once since November to fill up my DBX I drive on weekends, and its been glorious. Spent 150 dollars in electricity for 6 weeks of driving, 100+ miles a day 5 days a week.

Edited January 16, 2023 by G650

[tbone_ 14128]

What’s the math on the price drop and tax break? I haven’t been following closely.

[Brew 3049]

Original tax credits expired on Tesla models, government extended last year but it is likely only good through March. Make sure you qualify as it is AGI limited.

[52-80 19163]

original tax credit scheme expired. this one is new and different, not really an extension.
 

march deadline is supposed to be about clarification of the requirement for domestic battery sourcing. its not sure what cars will disqualify because (1) tesla uses different battery on diff cars (2) some of which are assembled/made in nevada and texas (3) by far and away tesla are the most american vehicle — if they dont qualify, pretty sure no other will

[Gravy Train 974]

The new tax credit scheme is deeply flawed; I'm not sure if the Model3 Long Range works within the price caps so that you're not left with a rental-tier Tesla, which is pretty much what the M3 was to start, cost-engineered in 2017 with a $35K price target.  

The Model 3 Performance still has the old/non-LFP battery pack, a positive thing, but you'll blow past tax credit eligbility.  They're doing other odd things, like neutering FSD features after decontenting the LIDAR sensors, and leaving the base car's rear brakes on the Performance model, where it previously had fixed Brembos on all four corners.

https://insideevs.com/news/630576/tesla-model-y-performance-plastic-caliper-covers/

[52-80 19163]

9 hours ago, G650 said:

@cabowabo I'd recommend looking at the BMW or Merc EVs if you want to take the plunge. The main reason not to buy a Tesla is they are abject hunks of shit with awful adaptive systems that kill people on the reg.

Literally every Tesla model receives the highest safety score from all testing agencies US and European - often highest of all cars of all classes ever tested. 
 

also:

Quote

Based on the advanced architecture of Model S and Model X, which were previously found by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to have the lowest and second lowest probabilities of injury of all cars ever tested, we engineered Model 3 to be the safest car ever built. Now, not only has Model 3 achieved a perfect 5-star safety rating in every category and sub-category, but NHTSA’s tests also show that it has the lowest probability of injury of all cars the safety agency has ever tested.

And even if you dont believe in “Autopilot” - which I dont - see the light blue vs gray line, from nhtsa data

 

[52-80 19163]

Merc are the biggest joke in EVs.

Porsche? yes.
BMW? maybe (the iX is nice, even if it doesnt look it). 

Hyundai/Kia makes better EV than any EQ* from Mercedes  

 

[G650 14263]

I've handled many Teslas. Piles of shit.

[52-80 19163]

Totally fine to think that. But it doesnt do anything to substantiate your claims of safety. 

[LebongJames 1812]

I can’t speak to the safety but the build quality on Teslas is not up to the standard of other major manufacturers.

The paint, components and the actual fitment are major issues. The drivetrain on the other hand is very nice.

[G650 14263]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Totally fine to think that. But it doesnt do anything to substantiate your claims of safety. 

One literally just caused a pile up in San Francisco. I know multiple people personally who have had the self park lose it's mind, one who crashed through a fence and into a building. One just killed two people in China this fall on a runaway.

[The Ace of Aces 5192]

Bugg3st issue with Teslas is they are insanely uncomfortable. Our friend has one and every time we drive to Philly which is 80 miles I hate life by the time we are there. The seats - especially the back seat - are the worst of any car manufacturer. 

[G650 14263]

One thing I'll add is I wouldn't consider any of the new EVs terribly nice other than the Porsche and Merc. The BMW iX is a significantly lower grade of finish than my X5M even with in the M60 model and highest trim. What they are amazing at is efficiency, both in terms of cost of ownership and your personal time.

[52-80 19163]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

One literally just caused a pile up in San Francisco. I know multiple people personally who have had the self park lose it's mind, one who crashed through a fence and into a building. One just killed two people in China this fall on a runaway.

There are 5 million auto crashes each year in the US, with 40 thousand fatalities.

If you're going to make statistically-sound claims about safety, crunch the numbers.  Which shows Tesla has the lowest incidence and fatality rate in the industry.

If you're just going to go off anecdote, a dude in California tried to kill his family by driving the car 250ft off a cliff, and the entire family survive with the 2 kids suffering literally no injuries.  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/04/us/tesla-crash-cliff-california-driver-arrested/index.html

This sounds like the Toyota accelerator hysteria, when suddenly overnight everybody in America has a car that speeds up uncontrollably.

I get that broadly Tesla is the avatar for this weird automotive culture war, where everybody automatically formed an opinion.  Those who dont care about it wont understand it.  Those who hate it wont even *try* to understand it.

 

[G650 14263]

27 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I get that broadly Tesla is the avatar for this weird automotive culture war, where everybody automatically formed an opinion.  Those who dont care about it wont understand it.  Those who hate it wont even *try* to understand it.

Yes, I do understand you will irrationally defend Tesla because you have subsumed it into your identity. My opinion of Tesla stretches back a decade, before Tesla was a twinkle in your eye, and is informed by mountains of data. My opinion comes from critical thinking and analysis of available information by a mechanical engineer with an automotive background (me).

[conVINCEd 21469]

33 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

There are 5 million auto crashes each year in the US, with 40 thousand fatalities.

If you're going to make statistically-sound claims about safety, crunch the numbers.  Which shows Tesla has the lowest incidence and fatality rate in the industry.

If you're just going to go off anecdote, a dude in California tried to kill his family by driving the car 250ft off a cliff, and the entire family survive with the 2 kids suffering literally no injuries.  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/04/us/tesla-crash-cliff-california-driver-arrested/index.html

This sounds like the Toyota accelerator hysteria, when suddenly overnight everybody in America has a car that speeds up uncontrollably.

I get that broadly Tesla is the avatar for this weird automotive culture war, where everybody automatically formed an opinion.  Those who dont care about it wont understand it.  Those who hate it wont even *try* to understand it.

 

I just think they are ugly.

[52-80 19163]

9 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yes, I do understand you will irrationally defend Tesla because you have subsumed it into your identity. My opinion of Tesla stretches back a decade, before Tesla was a twinkle in your eye, and is informed by mountains of data. My opinion comes from critical thinking and analysis of available information by a mechanical engineer with an automotive background (me).

You can claim data all you want. I showed data, so until you do the same, your source = “trust me bro”. 

You can also claim I have bias by affilition. But I was a Tesla skeptic before, and even into ownership. And now that I’ve owned cars of japanese, german, swedish, italian, french, and american make…you think the brand on the keyfob is what I use as self-identity?

Cmon with that schoolyard psychology bro

 

 

 

[Gravy Train 974]

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

This sounds like the Toyota accelerator hysteria, when suddenly overnight everybody in America has a car that speeds up uncontrollably.

Except that wasn't hysteria, that validated an entire stereotype of tuned-out, ignorant, careless, or geriatric vehicle owners (who doesn't care all that much about cars) with one particular brand.  

Why?  Because at some point, Toyota decontented the driver's-side floor mat positioning hooks, or made them a consumer-installable item, where their owners were careless enough to let them roll beneath the pedal box.

[52-80 19163]

12 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

Except that wasn't hysteria, that validated an entire stereotype of tuned-out, ignorant, careless, or geriatric vehicle owners (who doesn't care all that much about cars) with one particular brand.  

Why?  Because at some point, Toyota decontented the driver's-side floor mat positioning hooks, or made them a consumer-installable item, where their owners were careless enough to let them roll beneath the pedal box.

The Department of Transportation investigated and debunked this whole thing. 

The analogy is that a novel new scarething arose in consciousness - and then everybody who drive Toyotas thinks they have it, and everybody else thinks all Toyotas have it

And how many accidents actually occurred and what were the causes? Turns out, a miniscule number, of which could be attributed to a carpet-induced stuck pedal. 

By and large all other actual incidents (and not frights) of “unintended acceleration” were, confirmed by recorded data, morons jabbing the gas pedal thinking it was the brakes. (Which we know is extremely common). Or they had medical issues or etc. 

Because the easily provable fact are friction brakes overpower accel easily (esp in a fucking toyota); there are redundancies long built into the car; and there are obvious means of slowing it down (shift to neutral)  

At the end of the all, actual errors caused by the car was next to nil, but public perception had permanently seared, for which Toyota ultimately paid over $1B. And there concludes another chapter of automotive lore.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15125313/its-all-your-fault-the-dot-renders-its-verdict-on-toyotas-unintended-acceleration-scare-feature/
 

 

[52-80 19163]

I know the pedal-carpet thing is mechanically feasible. At the time of that controversy, I had already experienced it in my Nissan. The clutch pedal would occasionally “stick” at the bottom of its travel for a second before popping back out. 
 

Of course, if it was instead the gas pedal on 1999 Camry with a 2.2 liter pumping 140hp, its not exactly jetting the car to 3-digit speeds. Fred Flintstones could brake that car down to a halt. 

[Gravy Train 974]

It's mechanically feasible, and was tested in civil courts where Toyota maintained responsibility for the flaw via complimentary floor mat hooks, and, with some vehicles, a revised PCM flash that dulls throttle input when the brake pedal is applied simultaneously.

The fun part, to me, is associating an entire brand with its inattentive, negligent (and sometimes outright dangerous) owners, because nearly everything  Toyota represents is what many modern automotive enthusiasts avoid.  

Public road encounters are enough for me-- I can profile behaviors by make/model with enough validation to form a stereotype.  Nissan owners are now on the clock, thanks to the Altima and their unfortunate penchant to employ a CVT in most of their product line.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Gravy Train

[52-80 19163]

I dont want to feel bad for businesses/corporations. Its hard to do. But sometimes I do sympathize a bit over how how a few dumb customers causing a few dumb incidents can taint an entire brand. 

[Chewbacca 7780]

26 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

nearly everything  Toyota represents is what many modern automotive enthusiasts avoid.  

For Toyota cars?  Sure.  But Landcruisers and 4Runners are highly sought after in the offroading community.  Toyota is one of maybe 3 manufacturers (Land Rover and Jeep being the others) that actually takes offroading seriously.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

For Toyota cars?  Sure.  But Landcruisers and 4Runners are highly sought after in the offroading community.  Toyota is one of maybe 3 manufacturers (Land Rover and Jeep being the others) that actually takes offroading seriously.

I’m indifferent to technology in regard to the infotainment center of a vehicle. All I want is a bullet proof engine, safety, and ability. So for that, nothing beats a Toyota Tacoma or 4runner.

When I hear car enthusiast, I am hoping the enthusiast is buying a vehicle north of $75K that has a unique look and performance.

But I am a pretty simple dude that doesn’t like going to mechanics.

[Chewbacca 7780]

5 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I’m indifferent to technology in regard to the infotainment center of a vehicle. All I want is a bullet proof engine, safety, and ability. So for that, nothing beats a Toyota Tacoma or 4runner.

When I hear car enthusiast, I am hoping the enthusiast is buying a vehicle north of $75K that has a unique look and performance.

But I am a pretty simple dude that doesn’t like going to mechanics.

You can add the Taco in there as well.  Great vehicles that last forever.  I'm a huge fan.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

You can add the Taco in there as well.  Great vehicles that last forever.  I'm a huge fan.

I did chewie. I had two of them. The one that had 237,000 miles in it never had its spark plugs changed. But I was told up thread that Tacos and 4Runners are pieces of shit.

[Gravy Train 974]

I don't need to rehash, but those older LCs, Tacos and 4Runners have been perfected over years with powertrains two full decades old in design.  Not necessarily overbuilt, but precise and right for the job.  Port injection, 4-speed and 6-speed hydro-automatics, mechanical lockers, hydraulic sway bar disconnects, just raw mechanical shit that works.  No direct injection, 10-speed flywheeling autos, regenerative/hybrid systems, turbocharged anything... until now.

Their reputation in body-on-frame is there for a reason... and I wouldn't say, "pieces of shit," just archaic.  It's strange that the '90s are alive and well, with a warranty, for $36-$47K a pop, among a small remainder of showroom inventory.  As long as they met CAFE averages and kept order books open, their hands weren't ever forced to update.

[G650 14263]

4 Runners are definitely antique, but if anyone likes them I don't begrudge that. My SIL has one as we speak.

 

The new ones are not terribly capable offroad in stock form though, they have gotten too bulky. The N60s were incredible with just some tires.

[Chewbacca 7780]

16 minutes ago, G650 said:

4 Runners are definitely antique, but if anyone likes them I don't begrudge that. My SIL has one as we speak.

 

The new ones are not terribly capable offroad in stock form though, they have gotten too bulky. The N60s were incredible with just some tires.

A TRD Pro is quite capable out of the box.  Not sure what you're referring to here.  At least for the offroading we do in the western US.

[Sam Lin 3559]

Re: Tesla compared to other cars, whynotboth.gif

It's pretty clear you've each made up your minds. The car market will make its own mind. FWIW my dad has a Tesla and it is a perfectly fine (fast) appliance. It's a very good choice for him.

To G650 comment, I am also in automotive engineering, have multiple friends who have been engineers at Tesla, and I find Tesla's engineering to be amusingly shit. I was literally speechless when I found out that rain sensing wiper was still a "Beta" function - the Taiwan owner base describes the function as "mentally retarded." Some things have not changed since Tesla started and Sandy Munro did his first teardowns; incredibly advanced development in some areas and literal automotive stone-age in others. I have zero desire to own one at this point, they simply aren't a finished product yet.

Based on my own experiences driving/riding in my dad's Tesla, the auto driving/driver assist is not ready to be on public roads, and I am honestly surprised NHTSA has not cracked down harder on Tesla.

[G650 14263]

43 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

A TRD Pro is quite capable out of the box.  Not sure what you're referring to here.  At least for the offroading we do in the western US.

You do a lot of soft roading. We've been down this road already, I'm not rehashing it all.

[Chewbacca 7780]

You do a lot of soft roading. We've been down this road already, I'm not rehashing it all.

Right. And you do mudding. We don't do that here. Not enough water.

99.9% of people do not want a purpose built offroader with 40s, lockers, etc. But yeah, go ahead and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. You also think your X5M was a good offroader.

[royiv 9325]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I dont want to feel bad for businesses/corporations. Its hard to do. But sometimes I do sympathize a bit over how how a few dumb customers causing a few dumb incidents can taint an entire brand. 

What about a dumb CEO tainting an entire brand?

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Right. And you do mudding. We don't do that here. Not enough water.

99.9% of people do not want a purpose built offroader with 40s, lockers, etc. But yeah, go ahead and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. You also think your X5M was a good offroader.

Yeah, but anything with good 33’s and any type of power can navigate all but the most rutted up logging roads and passes.   Is auto sway bar disconnect cool? Yeah.  Do you need it for 99% of the “trails”’ your driving?   Neither are making it thru hells revenge without some work. 

[GoPokes83 2240]

I realize it’s a concept vehicle, but the Dodge Ram 1500 Revolution EV is a gorgeous truck! If the production vehicle is anything like this it could easily be a game changer!