The New Car Fanatic Thread

[Chewbacca 7690]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Where are these 50000 mi tires from?  Need me some of them.  

They reside on normal cars that have less than 500 hp.

[ChiTownDoc 21090]

Well, shit.  I can’t even get that out of my damn winter tires.  

Edited October 9, 2019 by ChiTownDoc

[Sam Lin 3540]

7 hours ago, G650 said:

It's not really an agree/disagree situation, it's just a fact. Engines were 100k items before, transmissions about the same. Now they are 300k plus at least. Tires were 15k items, now 50k. Alternators, compressors, etc..The list is basically endless.

Except when it isn't a fact. You are very unlikely to get any modern BMW engine to 300k, or even 200k, without what most would consider a major overhaul (rod bearings, turbos). Multiple generations of Subaru motor likely needed head gaskets around 120k miles. Honda 4spd auto trannies lunched themselves regularly before 100k miles up to ~2010. Where you do have that 300k or more reliability is cars not pushing the edge - diesel trucks, for example. LS motors. Items that the bleeding edge likes to make fun of for being "stone-age" technology.

Porsche isn't immune - see 996tt coolant lines. IMS bearing anyone? Affected multiple generations and multiple models, and is wrecking their resale value. 2015 GT3 warranty extension anyone? Automakers don't just offer those out of kindness.

 

7 hours ago, Gravy Train said:

What's the electrical issue in your case?  Unless it was an ignition coil or computer leading to catastrophic detonation, I can't think of an electrical component capable of killing a car.

Are you considering "reliability" to only cover items that kill/immobilize a car? Land Rovers a few gen ago had a genius design where a blown taillight bulb prevented the tranny from shifting out of Park. Is that a reliability issue? Ford Sync took 3 different revisions due to it being basically unusable, locking up, poor interface. Ford actually recalled the cars for infotainment issues, and extended the Sync warranty. Is that a reliability issue?

 

 

Reliability differences between automakers are absolutely still a thing. Has the gap between best and worst narrowed? Absolutely. Is the worst car now ages better than the worst car even 10yr ago? Absolutely. But are some makes still better at reliability? Absolutely.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2018/10/25/the-most-and-least-reliable-rides-on-the-road/

http://dashboard-light.com/reports/QualityIndexRating.html

 

One year of surveys doesn't tell the whole story. Look at where automakers have placed over the last 5-10-20 years. From the JD Power survey link: "Along with Porsche, all Germany brands are better than the industry average, the first time this has happened in the 30 years of the study." First time in 30 years. That is not a culture of reliability. Lexus is 8 straight years at the top. That's what I'm referring to when I say Toyota/Lexus has a culture of reliability that noone else has.

[ChiTownDoc 21090]

If some of you wanna play with the Singer configurator and build out a Shaggy Singer, here you go:

 

http://configurator.singervehicledesign.com/

Username:           SingerGuest

Password:            ReimaginedP911

[Gravy Train 974]

27 minutes ago, Sam Lin said:

Are you considering "reliability" to only cover items that kill/immobilize a car? Land Rovers a few gen ago had a genius design where a blown taillight bulb prevented the tranny from shifting out of Park. Is that a reliability issue? Ford Sync took 3 different revisions due to it being basically unusable, locking up, poor interface. Ford actually recalled the cars for infotainment issues, and extended the Sync warranty. Is that a reliability issue?

We engineer types can see where design lends to reliability, but I want to think the average appliance commuter views the 'reliability' metric as TCO and anticipated maintenance + repair costs out-of-warranty.  I'd far recommend the Fusion Titanium 2.0 Ecoboost or Passat SEL over a Camry to anyone competent enough to schedule regular oil change visits, and both are far nicer to live in as well.

Yes, design has a lot to do with it as well and we just spent a page shitting on Toyota for their stale design and lack of innovation.  If I wanted a vehicle with port injection and a 4-speed auto, I'd own a LSx C5 with a 4L80E behind a loose converter, not a 2018 Corolla.  Toyota has a LOT of work to do on their infotainment systems as well.

[Pato del Muerto 52309]

Just checking in to say that the French make some horrifically ugly cars. 

[52-80 19062]

43 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Just checking in to say that the French make some horrifically ugly cars. 

Citroen/DS/Peugeot are doing terrific interior, as good or better than Germans

Exterior styling is very good for consumer brand.  More interesting than the price-competing Toyota Honda Subaru Mitsubishi etc

Outside of the Renault's utility line and the nasty Dacia subbrand, their cars are nice as well e.g. Talisman.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Just checking in to say that the French make some horrifically ugly cars. 

Counter point, these exist (the Citroen SM is beautiful and no other answers will be accepted):

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

And their old stuff is gorgeous. Especially pre-war.

Basically any Delahaye ever:









Facel Vega:



Talbot-Lago:

[Loco 3752]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Just checking in to say that the French make some horrifically ugly cars. 

[pepper brooks 579]

18 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

They reside on normal cars that have less than 500 hp.

pfffffttttt ain't nobody got time for that.  

[Pato del Muerto 52309]

2 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

Counter point, these exist (the Citroen SM is beautiful and no other answers will be accepted):

 

Been thinking about these all day and shaking my head. 

[TwiceHorn 31166]

19 hours ago, G650 said:

 

It's not really an agree/disagree situation, it's just a fact. Engines were 100k items before, transmissions about the same. Now they are 300k plus at least. Tires were 15k items, now 50k. Alternators, compressors, etc..The list is basically endless.

People have very selective memories when thinking about old vehicles. It was the 80's before some semblance of longevity arrived via Toyota and Volvo, and the mid 00's before it really became modern in terms of lifespan. Even as late the 90's and early 00's all of our Chevy 1500s had two or three motors and transmissions over their lives. I wasn't exaggerating the amount of transmissions we've bought. Crate 350's too.

 

Dunno? I was looking at people arguing the merits of the Toyota philosophy mainly.

Good post.  But you also revealed that the trannies you were buying were overdrive and lockup variants of the TH350/400, 4L80s and such, which I agree are sorta pieces of shit.  Or at least mortal equipment.

I psychologically get nervous when a car gets close to 100k, even though I know that's NBD anymore.

[G650 13953]

12 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

Except when it isn't a fact. You are very unlikely to get any modern BMW engine to 300k, or even 200k, without what most would consider a major overhaul (rod bearings, turbos).

Lol. Sure thing man.

[G650 13953]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Good post.  But you also revealed that the trannies you were buying were overdrive and lockup variants of the TH350/400, 4L80s and such, which I agree are sorta pieces of shit.  Or at least mortal equipment.

I psychologically get nervous when a car gets close to 100k, even though I know that's NBD anymore.

Plenty of them yes, but a lot of the bog trucks I built back when were original 350 as well.

I'm right there with you on the 100k barrier, it's just so ingrained!

[Bert Orange 1115]

It’s a fact that people are holding cars longer than ever in the modern era. Car sales have been and are expected to continue to decline for the next 3 years. And one of the key factors is reliability and consumer confidence in brand reliability. 

[tbone_ 14020]

And the 84 month loan

[Okie State 3765]

The 84 month loan and low interest rates have allowed the prices to skyrocket out of control.

[ChiTownDoc 21090]

20 minutes ago, Okie State said:

The 84 month loan and low interest rates have allowed the prices to skyrocket out of control.

Wonder if Rocco has paid off that 2002 Vette by now?

[Okie State 3765]

26 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Wonder if Rocco has paid off that 2002 Vette by now?

If not, you can always roll that negative equity into the next one. Rinse and repeat!

[elfenix 34163]

1 hour ago, Okie State said:

The 84 month loan and low interest rates have allowed the prices to skyrocket out of control.

*cough*leases*cough*

[Chewbacca 7690]

22 minutes ago, elfenix said:

*cough*leases*cough*

Leases are the same as buying new with 100% financing and trading it in at month 36.  The only difference is you get a guaranteed buyback price.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Chewbacca

[elfenix 34163]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Leases are the same as buying new with 100% financing and trading it in at month 36.  The only difference is you get a guaranteed buyback price.

correct.  but the monthly is lower because you don't finance that guaranteed buyback price so it enables ASP creep.

[Pato del Muerto 52309]

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Leases are the same as buying new with 100% financing and trading it in at month 36.  The only difference is you get a guaranteed buyback price.

But it’s not usually 100%, there’s typically a few thousand due at signing. 

[Chewbacca 7690]

But it’s not usually 100%, there’s typically a few thousand due at signing. 

You can lease or buy with zero down.

[52-80 19062]

11 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Leases are the same as buying new with 100% financing and trading it in at month 36.  The only difference is you get a guaranteed buyback price.

 

but also a mileage restriction

 

[Chewbacca 7690]

 
but also a mileage restriction
 

Well, that's how you get the guaranteed residual.

[52-80 19062]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Well, that's how you get the guaranteed residual.

they'll give you the residual if you stay within the mileage limit.  but they wont award you extra residual if you are significantly under limit.

(theoretically you could buy the car and then sell it to recoup the difference [assuming residual was FMV])

 

point is lessee has stronger imperative to stay close to the mileage limit, whereas a purchaser can drive under or over without incurring accelerated penalty

[pepper brooks 579]

6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

 

but also a mileage restriction

 

and a car payment in perpetuity.  

[52-80 19062]

22 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

and a car payment in perpetuity.  

same total outlay, unless you drive a 10+ year old car

last 10 years, ive taken ownership of 5 cars (going on 6), average holding duration 2-3 years or so.

all cash purchases.  if i calculated full expenditure (purchase - sales), its probably the same as riding out multiple leases.

 

[G650 13953]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

last 10 years, ive taken ownership of 5 cars (going on 6), average holding duration 2-3 years or so.

Woof.

[Pato del Muerto 52309]

Also, thanks to one Jeremy clarkson, my car nerd son loves him an old Citroen 2CV and we’ve seen two of them so he’s happy. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[Loco 3752]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

last 10 years, ive taken ownership of 5 cars (going on 6), average holding duration 2-3 years or so.

and triggered!   I spent years of my life calculating vehicle depreciation ...  You sir either...

1) Love the fuck out of new car smell

2) Enjoy hanging out with lot lizzards

3) look forward to +20% nut shots each time you drive off the lot

4) Are not Scottish

 

If it's your thing and you love it, fine.  But this doesn't seem like a viable / reasonable approach to utilitarian vehicle ownership

[52-80 19062]

57 minutes ago, Loco said:

and triggered!   I spent years of my life calculating vehicle depreciation ...  You sir either...

1) Love the fuck out of new car smell

2) Enjoy hanging out with lot lizzards

3) look forward to +20% nut shots each time you drive off the lot

4) Are not Scottish

 

If it's your thing and you love it, fine.  But this doesn't seem like a viable / reasonable approach to utilitarian vehicle ownership

it wasnt intentional

got a car allowance so bought one at no extra personal cost.  changed to extreme climates so commuting in 100*F and traffic with a soft-top was senseless.  moved again and couldnt import my car.  dumped a sporty 2 door because it was too rough for the lady.  etc

only exchanged one on a whim and that was a modern alfa which drove like ass

next car i already know is not a forever-car situation, but that remains to be seen....

Edited October 11, 2019 by 52-80

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Loco said:

2) Enjoy hanging out with lot lizzards

I believe you and I view this term differently. 

[Loco 3752]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I believe you and I view this term differently. 

I have always heard of it referring to car salesmen...  and you?

[Chewbacca 7690]

2 minutes ago, Loco said:

I have always heard of it referring to car salesmen...  and you?

Hookers for truckers.  So gross hookers.

[fattyflattie 4636]

I have always heard of it referring to car salesmen...  and you?

Truck stop girlfriends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[elfenix 34163]

42 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Hookers for truckers.  So gross hookers.

they're both pretty gross tho

[Loco 3752]

48 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Hookers for truckers.  So gross hookers.

Themoreyouknow.gif

 

[Prepuce of Doom 20965]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Also, thanks to one Jeremy clarkson, my car nerd son loves him an old Citroen 2CV and we’ve seen two of them so he’s happy. 

I'm pretty sure that's a Ferrari, not a Citroën.

You can tell because it's red. 

[Chewbacca 7690]

22 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

I'm pretty sure that's a Ferrari, not a Citroën.

You can tell because it's red. 

Looks like Owen Wilson is driving it.

[G650 13953]

La Ferrari 

[TwiceHorn 31166]

On 10/10/2019 at 2:57 PM, Okie State said:

The 84 month loan and low interest rates have allowed the prices to skyrocket out of control.

And what's absurd about that, is, a whole hell of a lot of people don't pay the damn things off.  They roll the balance into another note. 

For a brief period I did some consumer bankruptcy stuff and the car note idiocy was astonishing.

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

On 10/11/2019 at 12:41 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Also, thanks to one Jeremy clarkson, my car nerd son loves him an old Citroen 2CV and we’ve seen two of them so he’s happy. 

Good looking Corvette 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:10 PM, 52-80 said:

Deposit on Tesla placed today.  of course now i am reading the horror stories about Tesla service that eclipses anything ive heard for any other brands ever

Went for a test ride with a friend last night in his Tesla.  I've never driven a car as fast, and powerful as that vehicle.  Unbelievable how instantaneous the acceleration was.  His comments on the car, and service were pretty glowing.  He had a couple minor things go wrong, and the service was on the spot, and taken care of.  

The 17" onboard display screen, and mapping of routes to get you to charging stations anywhere on the continent was damn cool. Can't say I'm a fan of the dashboard. Very spare and kind of boring, but the body design is really nice. His has a  pearl white finish, with blacked out trim everywhere (no chrome) and black rims. Pretty sweet look.

This kid just went to work for a new electric adventure car co. Rivian,  an off road vehicle set up for living on the road or the mountains.  He's gonna be designing their battery /electric storage system.

[tbone_ 14020]

Which Tesla?

[52-80 19062]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Went for a test ride with a friend last night in his Tesla.  I've never driven a car as fast, and powerful as that vehicle.  Unbelievable how instantaneous the acceleration was.  His comments on the car, and service were pretty glowing.  He had a couple minor things go wrong, and the service was on the spot, and taken care of.  

The 17" onboard display screen, and mapping of routes to get you to charging stations anywhere on the continent was damn cool. Can't say I'm a fan of the dashboard. Very spare and kind of boring, but the body design is really nice. His has a  pearl white finish, with blacked out trim everywhere (no chrome) and black rims. Pretty sweet look.

This kid just went to work for a new electric adventure car co. Rivian,  an off road vehicle set up for living on the road or the mountains.  He's gonna be designing their battery /electric storage system.

The looks of the 3 have grown on me and I find it pretty attractive - particularly that unique front bumper, the mirrors, and confident wide rear end viewed from straight-on.  everything except that awkward rear 3/4ths.  better looking car than the S, IMO.

Wish interior was real leather.  Or if they didnt virtue-signal by calling their pleather "vegan leather".  blech

 

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

25 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The looks of the 3 have grown on me and I find it pretty attractive - particularly that unique front bumper, the mirrors, and confident wide rear end viewed from straight-on.  everything except that awkward rear 3/4ths.  better looking car than the S, IMO.

Wish interior was real leather.  Or if they didnt virtue-signal by calling their pleather "vegan leather".  blech

 

 

 

Yeah, like I said I was underwhelmed by the interior. Dashboards are one of my favorite details on cars new or old.  I also like the carbon fiber detailing on the rear deck lid.

I'm still feeling that acceleration....

[Gravy Train 974]

Sounds like a Model 3 Performance if it had a carbon fiber decklid spoiler.  It took Tesla nearly two years to complete that spoiler, which should have been a factory-fit option to the M3P, and was only recently released.

Impressions are opposite for me.  I prefer the Model S, especially now with the full, uninterrupted pano glass roof that made it over from the X.  The design is getting long in the tooth and I think the center console looks cheap, but prefer the design of the dash to the too-minimalist take on the Model 3. 

Exterior-wise, the Model 3 looks like some Chinese knockoff company with no brand identity in the design.  The Model Y will be even worse and I have no interest in their short wheelbase offerings.  Model S Performance or go home.