The New Car Fanatic Thread

[PittsburghTiger 6101]

52 minutes ago, G650 said:

The Ford V6 they replaced the straight 6 with sucked ass, and so did the initial V8s (4.6 and 5.4). But they did get the V8s better eventually and the next V6, the 3.5 is a great motor.

I had the Triton 5.4, and it ate itself to death. I have the 3.5 now and it is indeed fantastic.

[PittsburghTiger 6101]

18 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

BMW has been using them from the 30s to the present. They haven’t ever made a V6. It’s awesome that Mercedes has recently brought them back, too.

I'll have to look at the stack of magazines because recently one of them did a story on the history of the straight-6, it was quite interesting.

[Ths71 472]

These were hard to kill.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TwiceHorn 30967]

1 hour ago, PittsburghTiger said:

 

I’ve heard older mechanics say Ford got rid of the straight-6 because nothing ever broke. They replaced it with a horrid V6 when they redesigned the 150.  It was a terrible redesign.  Mercedes has a great straight-6 in the E Class now.  Didn’t BMW have an awesome one too, or still does?

BMW kind of made their bones on L6s.  

Benz abandoned them for a while, but brought them back.

I guess fitting them under the hood with the requisite crumple zones and FWD and AWD really is an issue because they're considerably less complex to manufacture than V engines and unbalanced four bangers.  The blocks are easier to cast and the journals on the cranks are spaced apart more, dont need twice as many cams, no balance shafts, shorter intake paths, etc.

I only mentioned the Vortec because it was an all-new L6 in the 2000s, had eye-catching numbers, and was in an obscure and mediocre set of vehicles.  I was aware of the 5-cylinder version in the Colorado and Canyon and thought that was weird.

[PittsburghTiger 6101]

The March/April 2020 Road & Track issue has a story, The Timeless Line, on the history of the straight-6. I can't find it digitally. But that's the issue where it ran.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

I am no GM fan, but the Vortec 4200 was a great engine.

 

There’s also the famous later model tuner I6s, the Toyota 1JZ/2JZ and the Ford Barra.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

17 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

So much for my S6 being reliable.  I've got 2 bad turbos at 50k miles.  It's somewhat of a known issue in these cars, and seems to affect quite a few of them.  Thankfully I'm still under my CPO warranty.  

Sucks.  How long will they have it?

I get nervous about repairs that probably involve lifting the engine.  There's so much that can go wrong.  It's a theoretical nervousness, because I've never had one.

[Okie State 3732]

So much for my S6 being reliable.  I've got 2 bad turbos at 50k miles.  It's somewhat of a known issue in these cars, and seems to affect quite a few of them.  Thankfully I'm still under my CPO warranty.  

What's the bill on that with no CPO? Ten grand?

[TwiceHorn 30967]

2 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

BMW has been using them from the 30s to the present. They haven’t ever made a V6. It’s awesome that Mercedes has recently brought them back, too.

I suppose it kind of derives from being half of a V12 aircraft engine.

A V6 seems to be about the worst of all worlds from an inherent design standpoint.

But, I really, really liked the 3.6DI V6 in my CTS and in the wife's Camaro.  It's odd, that engine was fairly well liked when it was introduced around 2008 or so but now that it is the GM mainstay, it's shat upon.  And the bastard 90 degree Buick 3.8 was fairly well liked in its day, as well.

Edited May 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

I suppose it kind of derives from being half of a V12 aircraft engine.
A V6 seems to be about the worst of all worlds from an inherent design standpoint.
But, I really, really liked the 3.6DI V6 in my CTS and in the wife's Camaro.  It's odd, that engine was fairly well liked when it was introduced around 2008 or so but now that it is the GM mainstay, it's shat upon.

That GM engine itself isn’t bad, but they spec’d too long of oil change intervals initially and it killed timing chains early. I think that was more of a timing chain problem than an oil problem, though.

The switch to direct injection on them hasn’t been great, either. GM hasn’t figured out DI yet.

[PittsburghTiger 6101]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suppose it kind of derives from being half of a V12 aircraft engine.

I've never read anything about it just being half of the V being lopped off. I think the straight-6 is just that, a straight-6. I think it's just a straight-6, or slant-6.

I could be wrong.

Here's a neat story on the I6

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a22778642/straight-six-engine-return/

Edited May 14, 2020 by PittsburghTiger

[Chewbacca 7664]

Sucks.  How long will they have it?
I get nervous about repairs that probably involve lifting the engine.  There's so much that can go wrong.  It's a theoretical nervousness, because I've never had one.

They don't have to lift the engine, thankfully. Should have it back tomorrow if the parts get there today.

[Chewbacca 7664]

What's the bill on that with no CPO? Ten grand?

Yeah, the internet says the bill is 10-11k at a dealer. My indie shop that i use quoted me 8k when i was considering a tune. Good thing i didn't do that. Would have been expensive.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

38 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I've never read anything about it just being half of the V being lopped off. I think the straight-6 is just that, a straight-6. I think it's just a straight-6, or slant-6.

I could be wrong.

Here's a neat story on the I6

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a22778642/straight-six-engine-return/

You're right.  BMW kind of made its bones on aircraft engines during WWII, many of which were V12.  The V12 was two 6bangers kind of welded together, so from earliest days the opposite was true.  But I think BMW took their V12 experience and applied it to the six, which was kind of their mainstay until fairly recently.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

44 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

That GM engine itself isn’t bad, but they spec’d too long of oil change intervals initially and it killed timing chains early. I think that was more of a timing chain problem than an oil problem, though.

The switch to direct injection on them hasn’t been great, either. GM hasn’t figured out DI yet.

We had no problems with either out to 100k, give or take, but both of ours were sort of second generation.  In our experience, it was a strong, smooth engine. It compared very favorably with the rough-ass VQ V6 from Nissan. The torque curve could be a little lower, but nitpicking.  Its output has been surpassed by the ecoboost and other forced inducton things, but for 10 years ago and NA, it was pretty fucking fantastic.  I just can't see that it's dramatically outclassed for what it is.

And when I say shat upon, I don't mean taking into account maintenance problems, just sheer driveability.  Because the reviewers who shit on it routinely jizz on horrible reliability engines (I'm looking at C/D and Alfa Romeo in particular).

I haven't driven one since luxury makers went Lexus-like engine isolation, but can't imagine that any roughness comes through as it isn't an inherently rough engine.

The only DI problem I was aware of is the inherent carbon buildup on the backside of the valves and in the intake, which sounded worrisome, but I have since seen that GM studied it and determined it made no real difference during the realistic life of the engine.  Sounded to me like Audi-VW had more problems with DI than GM.

[PittsburghTiger 6101]

On 5/5/2020 at 10:50 PM, Prepuce of Doom said:

Speaking of proportions, it rhymes with abortions! 

https://barnfinds.com/quirky-kit-car-funtastik-vw-mini-camaro/

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/otis-orchards-vw-mini-camaro-project-car/7111971140.html

 

 

 

Why does the Banana Splits song start playing in my head when I see that?

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

I just mean that their injectors suck and they fail all the time.

 

I also don’t really trust auto journo reviews these days. Many of them don’t even own a car and they drive a new one every few weeks and never get to really make their own actual impressions. It’s always just this arbitrary definition of “sportiness” and whether or not it meets their definition.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

10 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I just mean that their injectors suck and they fail all the time.

 

I also don’t really trust auto journo reviews these days. Many of them don’t even own a car and they drive a new one every few weeks and never get to really make their own actual impressions. It’s always just this arbitrary definition of “sportiness” and whether or not it meets their definition.

Anecdotal and statistically insignificant, but we had no problems with the engines.  They seemed as strong at the end as at the beginning.

But yeah, auto journo reviews have always been kind of heavily biased and arbitrary and certainly lacking any long-term perspective.  One kind of thought C/D's might ease up a little on marque worship when Davis left, but no. Well, they have a little, but "non-prestige" marques have also narrowed the gap considerably.

One kind of funny thing.  C/D loves the Alfa Giulia and especially the Quadrifoglio variant.  I'm sure it's  nice to drive.  But their long-term test of the QF was a complete disaster, even by their own admission, one of the least reliable cars they've ever tested.  It took months for that information to be cross-referenced to the glowing Giulia  and QF reviews.

Edited May 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Pato del Muerto 52184]

Kind of like bragging about a high rating on a jb power initial quality survey. I’d hope most people that buy any new vehicle of their own choosing would enjoy it for the first 6 months and that it won’t break. 

[TwiceHorn 30967]

22 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

 

 

They don't have to lift the engine, thankfully. Should have it back tomorrow if the parts get there today.

 

Is it a "hot v" with the turbos between the cylinder banks then?

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Is it a "hot v" with the turbos between the cylinder banks then?

Yes.

[Chewbacca 7664]

Is it a "hot v" with the turbos between the cylinder banks then?

Yep.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

Surprisingly difficult to dig up detailed info on that engine.

What's wrong with the turbos?  Bearings?  Vanes burnt up?  Some combination?

[Okie State 3732]

Surprisingly difficult to dig up detailed info on that engine.
What's wrong with the turbos?  Bearings?  Vanes burnt up?  Some combination?

German.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

1 minute ago, Okie State said:

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Surprisingly difficult to dig up detailed info on that engine.
What's wrong with the turbos?  Bearings?  Vanes burnt up?  Some combination?

German.

Lulz.  It's mechanical, so they should be good at that.

Every time the German/Japanese "electronics" idea comes up, I think about this brilliant sketch from All In The Family where Arch and Meathead are arguing about Watergate and Arch declares that the big mistake was having Germans do the breakins and spying (Haldemann), cuz everyone knows you need the Japs to do that electronic stuff.

Surprised it isn't online somewhere.

[Chewbacca 7664]

Surprisingly difficult to dig up detailed info on that engine.
What's wrong with the turbos?  Bearings?  Vanes burnt up?  Some combination?

Screen that provides oil to the turbos gets clogged, turbos starve and fail. Audi issued a new screen a couple years ago but my car didn't have it.

Internet feels that the solution is upgraded screen, which I'm getting, combined with more frequent oil changes. I'm going full synthetic and changes every 3-4k or so.

Audi really needs to issue a TSB to fix, but they won't.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

6 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Screen that provides oil to the turbos gets clogged, turbos starve and fail. Audi issued a new screen a couple years ago but my car didn't have it.

Internet feels that the solution is upgraded screen, which I'm getting, combined with more frequent oil changes. I'm going full synthetic and changes every 3-4k or so.

Audi really needs to issue a TSB to fix, but they won't.

Gah, hate that.  A $10 part fucks everything up.

[Chewbacca 7664]

Gah, hate that.  A $10 part fucks everything up.

The worst part is that those who have proactively replaced the screen have spent 1500-2000 to do so because of the labor to get to it.

[Okie State 3732]

Did it not already require full synthetic?

[Pato del Muerto 52184]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Gah, hate that.  A $10 part fucks everything up.

Ya think Audi charges $10 for them?

[Chewbacca 7664]

Did it not already require full synthetic?

Probably, but i have no idea. Maintenance was prepaid until now for me. My indie guy who specializes in Audis will take over from here.

[Okie State 3732]

Man, I don't know how you trust the dealer. I'd want to know brand, weight, filter, and watch them physically change it. I used one of my free oil changes and after some confusion on number of quarts (8 vs 6) I never went back. Of course that's Chevy vs. Audi so not quite the same. I suppose that's why I just do it myself. Would love to find a good independent guy I could trust though.

[Chewbacca 7664]

Man, I don't know how you trust the dealer. I'd want to know brand, weight, filter, and watch them physically change it. I used one of my free oil changes and after some confusion on number of quarts (8 vs 6) I never went back. Of course that's Chevy vs. Audi so not quite the same. I suppose that's why I just do it myself. Would love to find a good independent guy I could trust though.

They overcharge but do good work. That said, I'm done with them unless a warranty claim comes up.

[Okie State 3732]

They overcharge but do good work. That said, I'm done with them unless a warranty claim comes up.

Yeah I figure the higher end brands do actually have some knowledgeable techs. I'm mostly just a psycho so I wouldn't expect people to be as untrusting or OCD as me. Wish I wasn't this way sometimes.

[Chewbacca 7664]

Yeah I figure the higher end brands do actually have some knowledgeable techs. I'm mostly just a psycho so I wouldn't expect people to be as untrusting or OCD as me. Wish I wasn't this way sometimes.

It's the difference between Chevy and Audi (or other high end brands). Chevy shits on everyone. High end brands just overcharge the fuck out of everyone as they smile at you.

[Gravy Train 970]

15 hours ago, Okie State said:

Man, I don't know how you trust the dealer. I'd want to know brand, weight, filter, and watch them physically change it. I used one of my free oil changes and after some confusion on number of quarts (8 vs 6) I never went back. Of course that's Chevy vs. Audi so not quite the same. I suppose that's why I just do it myself. Would love to find a good independent guy I could trust though.

Audi Master Guild-level mechanics can command top dollar just about anywhere.  Their training (and tools) now cross over to Porsche and Lamborghini, so they've seen some pretty fancy shit and know their way around some complex repair jobs.

 

Chewy:  Good fucking work dodging the TD1 and getting Audi to pick up the repair tab on some new turbos.  Not sure if you have any flex, but I'd happily drop by a pair of RS7 turbos to the shop foreman with a wink and nudge to get those instead.  Ask him to inspect the PCV system and oil separator while he's in the valley-- it's the other not-fun thing that sometimes lets go on our engines, typically showing up as a whistle at idle.

My miles are still fairly low but it's already tuned.  One of these days it'll get a pair of Turbosystems TS1 cartridges and I'll never have to think about them again.  With a canned tune, those are also good for 700HP and easy mid-10s.

[TwiceHorn 30967]

It's a drag that PCV and to a lesser extent EGR systems have stuck around, as they were originally simple and rudimentary efforts at emission control.  PCVs seem to cause an inordinate amount of problems.

[Chewbacca 7664]

Audi Master Guild-level mechanics can command top dollar just about anywhere.  Their training (and tools) now cross over to Porsche and Lamborghini, so they've seen some pretty fancy shit and know their way around some complex repair jobs.
 
Chewy:  Good fucking work dodging the TD1 and getting Audi to pick up the repair tab on some new turbos.  Not sure if you have any flex, but I'd happily drop by a pair of RS7 turbos to the shop foreman with a wink and nudge to get those instead.  Ask him to inspect the PCV system and oil separator while he's in the valley-- it's the other not-fun thing that sometimes lets go on our engines, typically showing up as a whistle at idle.
My miles are still fairly low but it's already tuned.  One of these days it'll get a pair of Turbosystems TS1 cartridges and I'll never have to think about them again.  With a canned tune, those are also good for 700HP and easy mid-10s.

I got the updated oil separator a year ago when i had the whistle show up, so I'm good there. And they are replacing the screen and check valve this go round. I had them send me the list of parts they are swapping out. I asked about RS7 turbos but they can't/won't do it because it's a warranty repair.

Very glad i didn't tune it, although i might now. I've only ever really been wanting for more power twice since I've owned it. Once chasing an E63 on I-70 and once when a Trackhawk dragged my ass.

[Gravy Train 970]

The jump from stock to stage 1 tune is pretty intense on our cars, then again with RS7 turbos.  I'm pretty deep down the rabbit hole of the varied upgrades and fortunately, only a select few mods are actually needed to dramatically change the car.

After the Stage-1 tune, your next best bang-for-buck are Eurocode or H&R sway bars.  Really tightens it up.

[Prepuce of Doom 20948]

Original Typhoon review. 

 

[Carl Spackler 3460]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:05 AM, G650 said:

The Ford V6 they replaced the straight 6 with sucked ass, and so did the initial V8s (4.6 and 5.4). But they did get the V8s better eventually and the next V6, the 3.5 is a great motor.

Of the two V-8s, the 5.4 was the one that provided most of the headaches, based on what I've read.  I've got a '97 F150 with the 4.6, and it's been trouble-free during the time I've owned it.  

[G650 13729]

10 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Of the two V-8s, the 5.4 was the one that provided most of the headaches, based on what I've read.  I've got a '97 F150 with the 4.6, and it's been trouble-free during the time I've owned it.  

The '97 4.6 was a distributor motor and was wicked good, but they switched over to coil packs in either 98 or 99 and totally fucked it. I actually drove a 97 for awhile and we ended up with about 400k on it when we let it go, original motor.

 

Edit: Looks like the 2000 model year, so late 99 is when they added them to the 4.6

Edited May 20, 2020 by G650

[Carl Spackler 3460]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

The '97 4.6 was a distributor motor and was wicked good, but they switched over to coil packs in either 98 or 99 and totally fucked it. I actually drove a 97 for awhile and we ended up with about 400k on it when we let it go, original motor.

 

Edit: Looks like the 2000 model year, so late 99 is when they added them to the 4.6

Mine has only 180K on it.  I don't drive it a ton -- I use it primarily for camping and when I want to go offroad, but the engine has been trouble-free except for getting some water in the cylinder head bores where the spark plugs are.  Had to replace the plugs, and that was a PITA because they aren't easy to access.   

[LonghornJudas 1089]

SIAP. Cheetah Stance Launch Mode activated. This is good stuff.

 

[Gravy Train 970]

$80K car drivetrain with $30K car interior things.  Cool that they figured out how to incorporate air suspension calibration with LC activation.  It's a bit gimmicky to market that feature.

[royiv 9113]

When is Tesla going to update the Model S. The current design is getting pretty long in the tooth.

[Bozo_Casanova 26122]

Sorry Royiv, Henrik Fiskar is not coming out of that tunnel.  Tesla is going to be stuck on boring for the foreseeable future. 

[LonghornJudas 1089]

33 minutes ago, royiv said:

When is Tesla going to update the Model S. The current design is getting pretty long in the tooth.

No biggie. Just go here and drop another 30k...

https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/s-apex-widebody-kit-model-s/

 

[Okie State 3732]

Build up, build up, build up....woooooosh. I'm sure it's fun to experience in the driver's seat, but it's so damn lame to watch.

 

 

[bluto 4853]

Am I alone on being very impressed by the aesthetics of the Kia Stinger? Have caught myself maneuvering to see the badge on the trunk to figure out wtf it is a couple times. No idea if they’re worth a shit generally but they nailed the body style IMO.