Tax reform

[Captainant 28380]

According to the IRS, refunds are down 8.4% comparing 02/02/2018 and 02/01/2019

[Incredulity 11859]

40 minutes ago, Captainant said:

According to the IRS, refunds are down 8.4% comparing 02/02/2018 and 02/01/2019

Did you read anything up thread about withholding tables?

 

Or any of the eleventy billion articles published over the last year about withholding being too low?

[David Dennison 19440]

57 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Did you read anything up thread about withholding tables?

 

Or any of the eleventy billion articles published over the last year about withholding being too low?

That really isn't going to matter to Joe Taxpayer when his refund is low or he owes money.

[Anastasis 23699]

I am projecting a 133% reduction in my refund this year.

[JimmyJames 12271]

If refunds are down trumpkins are gonna be pissed.

You guys can debate withholding tables and income tax rates and social security/Medicare all you want, but the bottom line is if refunds will be down, the lower income low info build a wall trumpkins are gonna be pissed. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26773]

Did you read anything up thread about withholding tables?
 
Or any of the eleventy billion articles published over the last year about withholding being too low?

What articles? In 2018 I read a bunch about Uranium One and people could NOT STOP TALKING about John Podesta’s emails, but I didn’t see anything on Brietbart or Truepundit about withholding tables.

[Michael Knight 13187]

On 2/8/2019 at 5:06 PM, JimmyJames said:

If refunds are down trumpkins are gonna be pissed.

You guys can debate withholding tables and income tax rates and social security/Medicare all you want, but the bottom line is if refunds will be down, the lower income low info build a wall trumpkins are gonna be pissed. 

maybe this will cause them to turn aga- nah probably not just blame the libs

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Was there really a "mistake" in the withholding tables or did Trump just want to maximize the appearance of the tiny tax cuts for average Americans last year to help in the elections?

[TwiceHorn 31984]

18 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Was there really a "mistake" in the withholding tables or did Trump just want to maximize the appearance of the tiny tax cuts for average Americans last year to help in the elections?

That probably would have been an even bigger mistake, as I think the impactful way to make Joe Six Pack feel a tax cut is to enlarge his refund.

Similarly, I think the hoi polloi might be a little more politically engaged, at least from a fiscal standpoint, if everyone but the poverty stricken had to stroke a check on April 15.

[Aqua Buddha 14782]

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

[Brew 3049]

25 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Was there really a "mistake" in the withholding tables or did Trump just want to maximize the appearance of the tiny tax cuts for average Americans last year to help in the elections?

He long gamed everyone. Passed the tax cut for him and his buddies, played with the withholding tables to get people more money in their checks to keep them quiet, refunds go down so people get pissed, lose the re-election as approval ratings fall, middle class picks up the tab in a few years, go back to playing golf and eating steaks with ketchup while saving millions.

[Okie State 3887]

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

Because poors use them as a savings strategy.

[Aqua Buddha 14782]

1 minute ago, Okie State said:

16 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

Because poors use them as a savings strategy.

Exactly.  What will be very interesting in the next month or so is how these numbers hold up.  Tax refund season is a big deal in consumer retail and if refunds come in unexpectedly low, it'll drag on a lot of companies first quarter numbers.  

[TwiceHorn 31984]

I wouldn't call it a "strategy" or even "savings."  Most of the dumb mopes just see it as a windfall.

It's pretty comical (in a sad way) on expensive hobby forums, e.g. guns or mountain bikes, to see what dufuses are going to do with their tax money.

Edited February 11, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Mojo Hand 4580]

38 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That probably would have been an even bigger mistake, as I think the impactful way to make Joe Six Pack feel a tax cut is to enlarge his refund.

Similarly, I think the hoi polloi might be a little more politically engaged, at least from a fiscal standpoint, if everyone but the poverty stricken had to stroke a check on April 15.

Yeah but they can "fix" the tables and get bigger refunds in 2020, in time for the next election.   One year of bad PR on refunds would have been worth a GOP House (back when they thought the tax bill would be a winner in 2018 and were talking up the increases in take-home pay). 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[David Dennison 19440]

36 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

Proving yet again that in this country, if you're middle class, you're poor.

[Anastasis 23699]

37 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

Only poors GET refunds. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Approximately 80 percent of filers get a refund. Apparently surly ain’t middle class, if it still even exists. 

[Aqua Buddha 14782]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't call it a "strategy" or even "savings."  Most of the dumb mopes just see it as a windfall.

It's pretty comical (in a sad way) on expensive hobby forums, e.g. guns or mountain bikes, to see what dufuses are going to do with their tax money.

Ford F-150 Raptor sales are going to take a plunge this year.

[Anastasis 23699]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Approximately 80 percent of filers get a refund. Apparently surly ain’t middle class, if it still even exists. 

Earned income credit. 

[ruitxn 299]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

Poors vote!

[SaucyJack 3517]

[Okie State 3887]

Only poors GET refunds. 

Well yeah. Just reference the annual Surly thread full of posts competing for who wrote the biggest check at tax filing time.

[Okie State 3887]

I wouldn't call it a "strategy" or even "savings."  Most of the dumb mopes just see it as a windfall.
It's pretty comical (in a sad way) on expensive hobby forums, e.g. guns or mountain bikes, to see what dufuses are going to do with their tax money.

I've definitely met people who use it as a savings account to cover an expected large expense as they are too undisciplined to save on their own.

[Js1 86924]

16 minutes ago, Okie State said:

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't call it a "strategy" or even "savings."  Most of the dumb mopes just see it as a windfall.
It's pretty comical (in a sad way) on expensive hobby forums, e.g. guns or mountain bikes, to see what dufuses are going to do with their tax money.

I've definitely met people who use it as a savings account to cover an expected large expense as they are too undisciplined to save on their own.

Q1 loves tax refunds. People spend them on big purchases instead of sticking them in savings. Emergency fund or TV/new car?!?!?! 

[tucker 238]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Yeah but they can "fix" the tables and get bigger refunds in 2020, in time for the next election.   One year of bad PR on refunds would have been worth a GOP House (back when they thought the tax bill would be a winner in 2018 and were talking up the increases in take-home pay). 

Why would dems allow this to pass?

[Brew 3049]

Refund changes are a middle class problem, those that qualify as poor will still get their refunds.

 

[Francisco 2.0 32542]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't call it a "strategy" or even "savings."  Most of the dumb mopes just see it as a windfall.

It's pretty comical (in a sad way) on expensive hobby forums, e.g. guns or mountain bikes, to see what dufuses are going to do with their tax money.

Well, er, um, ours paid for a flights & a family vacation to Disney this summer.

The salaries that my wife and I earn each year can pay for this vacation, and have done so in the past.   However, I filed last week; received notification the refund would be deposited this week, and well....there you have it.  The large parts of the vacation (flights, rooms for 6 nights, Disney meal plan, etc) are covered.  

It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.  We could adjust our withholding and each of us have a larger check, or get a refund.  

FYI, refund was down about 10% of what it was last year, but meh.  We had an idea it would be down that much this time last year.

 

 

[Js1 86924]

My admin at work (big Trump supporter) was PISSSSSSED this morning when she found out her and her husband owe $4k.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

And then there’s people like me who didn’t vote for him and hate him and are still getting fucked!!!

That’s a super fun feeling!

[CO Horn 172]

Again, few people have a higher tax liability with the new tax law. People equate a tax cut with larger refunds and this is not happening for most W-2 employees because of the wage withholding tables.  The W-4 still asks for the number of allowances that you are claiming. There are no longer personal exemptions, so not sure why the number of allowances makes a difference, other than the increased child tax credit.  The IRS should have considered this when adjusting the wage withholding tables.  To my knowledge, they still have not corrected this.

 

[NBMisha 224]

You keep thinking everyone is as informed and thoughtful on this matter as you are.  Hardly anyone is.  They are processing their refund or not experience based on primal heuristics.  Do I like it or do I hate it.  It might well impact one or two Trumpkin's "thought" processes.

[gmr548 16681]

Again, few people have a higher tax liability with the new tax law. People equate a tax cut with larger refunds and this is not happening for most W-2 employees because of the wage withholding tables.  The W-4 still asks for the number of allowances that you are claiming. There are no longer personal exemptions, so not sure why the number of allowances makes a difference, other than the increased child tax credit.  The IRS should have considered this when adjusting the wage withholding tables.  To my knowledge, they still have not corrected this.
 

Ironically, the people least likely to understand this and therefore get the most worked up about a smaller refund are Trumpkins. Reap what you sow.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Paul Ryan got out at the right time. 

[Js1 86924]

21 minutes ago, CO Horn said:

Again, few people have a higher tax liability with the new tax law. People equate a tax cut with larger refunds and this is not happening for most W-2 employees because of the wage withholding tables.  The W-4 still asks for the number of allowances that you are claiming. There are no longer personal exemptions, so not sure why the number of allowances makes a difference, other than the increased child tax credit.  The IRS should have considered this when adjusting the wage withholding tables.  To my knowledge, they still have not corrected this.

 

You basically just spoke Japanese to a bunch of individuals (read: morons) with no financial knowledge of tax laws.

Save your breath, none of the rubes understand what you said.  And by rubes, I mean about 90% of the American public who just files with TurboTax or H&R Block, see the number they get back or owe, and are upset.  Explaining to them the how and why = teaching a brick wall to speak Spanish. 

[Horn Dog 10156]

So I guess the trumpkins didn’t notice the extra $2.50 per paycheck?  Sad.

[Incredulity 11859]

Just now, Js1 said:

You basically just spoke Japanese to a bunch of individuals (read: morons) with no financial knowledge of tax laws.

Save your breath, none of the rubes understand what you said.  And by rubes, I mean about 90% of the American public who just files with TurboTax or H&R Block, see the number they get back or owe, and are upset.  Explaining to them the how and why = teaching a brick wall to speak Spanish. 

But we should manage things like single payer based on ad-hoc opinion polls, right?

[Francisco 2.0 32542]

4 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

So I guess the trumpkins didn’t notice the extra $2.50 per paycheck?  Sad.

Duh.  That's an extra lottery check each Wednesday.

[David Dennison 19440]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

But we should manage things like single payer based on ad-hoc opinion polls, right?

No. We should base it on Medicare.

[TwiceHorn 31984]

17 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

That probably would have been an even bigger mistake, as I think the impactful way to make Joe Six Pack feel a tax cut is to enlarge his refund.

Similarly, I think the hoi polloi might be a little more politically engaged, at least from a fiscal standpoint, if everyone but the poverty stricken had to stroke a check on April 15.

 

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Paul Ryan got out at the right time. 

Toldya.  But yeah, fixing withholding and enlarging refunds next year may be a viable doltvote strategery.

[wildcat09 29555]

I know it's hard to keep up with everything these days, but they definitely monkeyed with the withholding tables to increase the size of everyone's paychecks so they could sell the tax cuts to the rubes before the midterms. They expressly said that's what they were doing. I'm pretty sure we discussed it over at the scat site.

This is like when Sessions gleefully announced the family separation policy and then a few months later everyone finally realized what that meant, got pissed off, and then the administration said there had never been a family separation policy. They throw so much bullshit at us that we can't remember anything that happened more than a few weeks ago.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

49 minutes ago, CO Horn said:

Again, few people have a higher tax liability with the new tax law. People equate a tax cut with larger refunds and this is not happening for most W-2 employees because of the wage withholding tables.  The W-4 still asks for the number of allowances that you are claiming. There are no longer personal exemptions, so not sure why the number of allowances makes a difference, other than the increased child tax credit.  The IRS should have considered this when adjusting the wage withholding tables.  To my knowledge, they still have not corrected this.

 

If average folks had gotten sizeable increases in their take-home pay over the last year, this wouldn't be as big an issue.  The issue isn't that people are too stupid to figure out that they got a net gain of $160 or whatever from the tax bill.  It's that they aren't quite stupid enough to believe that $160 was some huge boon, much less worth the costs of the tax bill to our country.  The GOP set high expectations for the tax bill and has been telling their voters not to listen to the media or actual experts for years.   This is what happens when expectations based on lies and ignorance meets reality. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[David Dennison 19440]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I know it's hard to keep up with everything these days, but they definitely monkeyed with the withholding tables to increase the size of everyone's paychecks so they could sell the tax cuts to the rubes before the midterms. They expressly said that's what they were doing. I'm pretty sure we discussed it over at the scat site.

This is like when Sessions gleefully announced the family separation policy and then a few months later everyone finally realized what that meant, got pissed off, and then the administration said there had never been a family separation policy. They throw so much bullshit at us that we can't remember anything that happened more than a few weeks ago.

It only takes about 30 minutes of watching television from January 1 to April 15 to realize how much more important refunds are in this country than a barely noticeable bump in take home pay spread out over 52 weeks.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Incredulity 11859]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

wrong thread dickface

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I hate thread Nazis 

[Aqua Buddha 14782]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Fuck Your Tax Refund.

[Incredulity 11859]

24 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate thread Nazis 

Keep your socks and spam sorted out then.

[Bat Guano 363]

Now if they change the withholding tables for next year, there's a good chance people will notice their smaller paychecks; it's more salient when you lose money than when you pocket a bit more. Already pissed about a smaller refund, and then your paycheck goes down the next year? Yeah, that's gonna go over real well.