Tax reform

[Hefeweizen 5307]

Only the poors get excited about tax refunds.

Shit I haven't had a refund in at least 15 years. I somehow judged what I would owe better this year than the last few.

My worst year was owing about 5k and it sucked but you plan for it.

[NWBuck 8548]

Holy shit...

Amazon: Record profits, zero in corporate taxes.

Edited February 16, 2019 by NWBuck

[Brew 3047]

Coming out of 2017 according to their annual report you can easily find online, they had $226M in US loss carryforwards and almost $900m in carryforwards R&D tax credits, neither of which had anything to do with the tax law changes. I have zero doubt that 100% bonus depreciation and the changes in stock compensation deductions helped them tremendously, but I’m not sure they paid any tax prior to the changes either.

[David Dennison 18659]

56 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Holy shit...

Amazon: Record profits, zero in corporate taxes.

No worries. It'll trickle down.

[Incredulity 11555]

12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No worries. It'll trickle down.

Good thing AOC saved NY those 3 billion dollars so they can spend them on subways and schools.

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 hours ago, Brew said:

Coming out of 2017 according to their annual report you can easily find online, they had $226M in US loss carryforwards and almost $900m in carryforwards R&D tax credits, neither of which had anything to do with the tax law changes. I have zero doubt that 100% bonus depreciation and the changes in stock compensation deductions helped them tremendously, but I’m not sure they paid any tax prior to the changes either.

Well that’s a relief.

So were good then. The republican tax scam only benefited non Amazon companies. Good to know.

[Brew 3047]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Well that’s a relief.

So were good then. The republican tax scam only benefited non Amazon companies. Good to know.

All these writers could do a little research rather than blaming everything on the tax bill.

Back to real world examples. Couple came in yesterday with two kids, made $90k (same as last year), total tax bill dropped from $7000 to $2800. I’m sure you’re going to tell me that is pennies again, but it was a 60% drop in their tax bill and in relation to high income earners they were paying pennies anyways. I have yet to see anyone with an increase in tax including several with pretty significant itemized deductions in the past. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

40 minutes ago, Brew said:

All these writers could do a little research rather than blaming everything on the tax bill.

Back to real world examples. Couple came in yesterday with two kids, made $90k (same as last year), total tax bill dropped from $7000 to $2800. I’m sure you’re going to tell me that is pennies again, but it was a 60% drop in their tax bill and in relation to high income earners they were paying pennies anyways. I have yet to see anyone with an increase in tax including several with pretty significant itemized deductions in the past. 

Why would they need you to do their taxes for them? Sounds like a pretty simple situation.

For someone who supposedly is against the republican tax scam you sure do seem to spend a lot of time arguing what a wonderful deal it is for individuals as opposed to corporations. Did Citibank’s tax bill go down a few thousand dollars too? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

9 hours ago, Brew said:

Coming out of 2017 according to their annual report you can easily find online, they had $226M in US loss carryforwards and almost $900m in carryforwards R&D tax credits, neither of which had anything to do with the tax law changes. I have zero doubt that 100% bonus depreciation and the changes in stock compensation deductions helped them tremendously, but I’m not sure they paid any tax prior to the changes either.

So tell us. How much did the 100 percent bonus depreciation and changed in stock compensation deduction help them then? 

[Brew 3047]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Why would they need you to do their taxes for them? Sounds like a pretty simple situation.

For someone who supposedly is against the republican tax scam you sure do seem to spend a lot of time arguing what a wonderful deal it is for individuals as opposed to corporations. Did Citibank’s tax bill go down a few thousand dollars too? 

No idea, a lot of people just don’t want to do it themselves because they think it’s too complicated.  It’s the reason H&R Block exists and they pretty much rape everyone thatvwalks in their doors.

I’ve never once said it is wonderful, I’m just pointing out the misinformation that you and others seem to want to spread. It’s not some fleecing of the middle class, they got their percentage drop also. The numbers just look different, but so did the starting point. The well off and corporate entities got the biggest dollar break, but they will also be the ones that get to pay it back later. I doubt the middle class even ends up back at what they were paying when it all flips so then what is your complaint?

If you make 5 times what that couple above makes, you are probably paying 30 times the tax, but again the middle class got screwed. 

[Brew 3047]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So tell us. How much did the 100 percent bonus depreciation and changed in stock compensation deduction help them then? 

Based on their R&D credits alone it likely just increased their carryforwards which didn’t help them in the current year, but it will in the next few. They are basically using those credits and their significant losses to turn the AWS into a tax free deal. You really can’t tell until their annual report gets released with the tax section details.

100% bonus depreciation on all assets is going to cost this country more tax revenue this year than a lot of the other pieces combined I would bet. It has been a boon for the manufacturing and construction industry.

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Brew

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, Brew said:

No idea, a lot of people just don’t want to do it themselves because they think it’s too complicated.  It’s the reason H&R Block exists and they pretty much rape everyone thatvwalks in their doors.

I’ve never once said it is wonderful, I’m just pointing out the misinformation that you and others seem to want to spread. It’s not some fleecing of the middle class, they got their percentage drop also. The numbers just look different, but so did the starting point. The well off and corporate entities got the biggest dollar break, but they will also be the ones that get to pay it back later. I doubt the middle class even ends up back at what they were paying when it all flips so then what is your complaint?

If you make 5 times what that couple above makes, you are probably paying 30 times the tax, but again the middle class got screwed. 

The only one spreading misinformation here, and specifically on this thread, is you. So the well off and corporations are going to “pay back” the tax they no longer owed? What does that even mean? 

My biggest complaint is that it was a huge tax cut that benefited corporations on the magnitude of hundreds of billions that has not been paid for and exploded the deficit by trillions. Something you always conveniently fail to address. The middle class saved a few hundred buck so large banks could save 25 billion. Yay!

But by all means carry on with your bizarre crusade to inform us all of the greatness of this tax scam. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, Brew said:

Based on their R&D credits alone it likely just increased their carryforwards which didn’t help them in the current year, but it will in the next few. They are basically using those credits and their significant losses to turn the AWS into a tax free deal. You really can’t tell until their annual report gets released with the tax section details.

100% bonus depreciation on all assets is going to cost this country more tax revenue this year than a lot of the other pieces combined I would bet. It has been a boon for the manufacturing and construction industry.

 

Blah blah blah.

I’m not gonna answer the question.

Blah blah blah

Instead of answering the question I’m gonna spout out a bunch of nonsense that no one understands because all of you are not an accountant like I pretend to be on the net. 

[Okie State 3788]

I, for one, appreciate the insight of the few CPA's on this thread.

[EuroHorn 3204]

3 minutes ago, Okie State said:

I, for one, appreciate the insight of the few CPA's on this thread.

Yep...

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

7 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Why would they need you to do their taxes for them? Sounds like a pretty simple situation.

I like you but take a fucking deep breath.  People pay for ALL KINDS of shit they don’t necessarily have to.  Acting like Brew isn’t making an honest living.  GTFO

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Blah blah blah.

I’m not gonna answer the question.

Blah blah blah

Instead of answering the question I’m gonna spout out a bunch of nonsense that no one understands because all of you are not an accountant like I pretend to be on the net. 

Lol.  Then he answers the question but you’re too stupid to understand so you talk more shit.  JFC

[Brew 3047]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

The only one spreading misinformation here, and specifically on this thread, is you. So the well off and corporations are going to “pay back” the tax they no longer owed? What does that even mean? 

My biggest complaint is that it was a huge tax cut that benefited corporations on the magnitude of hundreds of billions that has not been paid for and exploded the deficit by trillions. Something you always conveniently fail to address. The middle class saved a few hundred buck so large banks could save 25 billion. Yay!

But by all means carry on with your bizarre crusade to inform us all of the greatness of this tax scam. 

I’m not responding to you any more after this if you don’t feel the need to actually make a point. However, feel free to point out one piece of misinformation I’ve posted. I can point yours out in the above post where you continue to quote your “hundreds” reference which isn’t true. 

As far as the tax cut feel free to read back through this entire thread where I’ve said the overall law and the deficit it is creating was a problem, but I’ve also said that there are portions of it that make a lot of sense and corrected several places that were seriously abused. It also benefited the middle class more than you think which you continue to fail to acknowledge. 

As to your first paragraph, it is pretty clear that I’m referring to when future tax laws change to try and correct the deficit problem. Maybe you should actually read the response.

[Brew 3047]

37 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I like you but take a fucking deep breath.  People pay for ALL KINDS of shit they don’t necessarily have to.  Acting like Brew isn’t making an honest living.  GTFO

Honest may be debatable, but as long as there is an H&R Block and other like entities I’m probably not going to worry about it. If someone wants to pay my hourly rate to do their return, we’ll take care of it no matter how simple or complicated because it will be correct which I can’t say for the half ass places out there. 

They need to speed up the post card system for those with only W-2’s and other  simple information or go to a system where they log in to the IRS, confirm their information that has been submitted, and finalize their return online with them. The IRS has it when W-2’a are efiled so it should be simple to link it up.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Brew

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

12 minutes ago, Brew said:

Honest may be debatable, but as long as there is an H&R Block and other like entities I’m probably not going to worry about it. If someone wants to pay my hourly rate to do their return, we’ll take care of it no matter how simple or complicated because it will be correct which I can’t say for the half ass places out there. 

They need to speed up the post card system for those with only W-2’s and other  simple information or go to a system where they log in to the IRS, confirm their information that has been submitted, and finalize their return online with them. The IRS has it when W-2’a are efiled so it should be simple to link it up.

We pay a lot to accountants / attorneys etc.  I’ll start my bitching w the damn lawyers.  No offense to the strong lot of attorneys we have here on surly.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

Well I’m paying a 23% effective tax rate this year, because I had a pretty good year. Turned out tax reform ended up saving me about $8k so I think I’ll buy myself a Rolex.

Trickle down, motherfuckers!!!

[RDCanecutter 26280]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well I’m paying a 23% effective tax rate this year, because I had a pretty good year. Turned out tax reform ended up saving me about $8k so I think I’ll buy myself a Rolex.

Trickle down, motherfuckers!!!

If you haggle worth a damn, you can get it for $5K.

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

That seems unpatriotic

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

11 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

If you haggle worth a damn, you can get it for $5K.

Not if it's a decent Rolex.  The damn Chinese have driven prices well above what was original ask.  Can't make this shit up.  Anyways, congrats Bozo. 

[RDCanecutter 26280]

13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That seems unpatriotic

There were Russians involved. Viva America.

[Brew 3047]

15 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not if it's a decent Rolex.  The damn Chinese have driven prices well above what was original ask.  Can't make this shit up.  Anyways, congrats Bozo. 

Did they move on from the Louis Vuitton store?

[happyfunball 481]

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

Not if it's a decent Rolex.  The damn Chinese have driven prices well above what was original ask.  Can't make this shit up.  Anyways, congrats Bozo. 

Even a broken clock, brother.

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 hours ago, Brew said:

I’m not responding to you any more after this if you don’t feel the need to actually make a point. However, feel free to point out one piece of misinformation I’ve posted. I can point yours out in the above post where you continue to quote your “hundreds” reference which isn’t true. 

As far as the tax cut feel free to read back through this entire thread where I’ve said the overall law and the deficit it is creating was a problem, but I’ve also said that there are portions of it that make a lot of sense and corrected several places that were seriously abused. It also benefited the middle class more than you think which you continue to fail to acknowledge. 

As to your first paragraph, it is pretty clear that I’m referring to when future tax laws change to try and correct the deficit problem. Maybe you should actually read the response.

Maybe I haven’t made it articulately enough or not, but my point throughout this entire thread has tried to be that irregardless of possible minimal benefit this tax cut has had for the “middle class” which you seem to apologize for, the overall benefit of it is to save corporations a shitload of money that future generations will have to pay for because its unaccounted for debt, like paying for a swimming pool with a credit card. 

So you’re counting on future generations to correct the mistakes we are currently making. Great I hope they do, and I hope they are both wise enough to do so and magnanimous enough to forgive our ridiculous selfishness and mistakes. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  Then he answers the question but you’re too stupid to understand so you talk more shit.  JFC

I asked him how much money the tax breaks saved amazon. If he answered it maybe you could give me the number because I missed it from his posts, because all I read was “I don’t know.”

 

[Francisco 2.0 32341]

A tax story, but it isn't mine.

 

Have a coworker who in 2015-16 became a huge Trumper.  Any time a group was around, if something was mentioned political she was quick on the commentary; "he's such a better person than she is", "he's a businessman, he knows how to get things done", "Meliana is so much prettier than Michelle", and so on.  You get the idea.  Since the election, more of the same.

Until yesterday.  She and her husband had dropped off taxes to the CPA, and the preliminary news was they were going to owe.  Not a large amount, but she said they had never owed taxes in their marriage until now (for perspective, they have two daughters in their early 20's, so something like 25 years).  She and husband kept insisting something wasn't right, but CPA kept confirming.  She was even going to go to HR and get an education on withholding, since she hasn't changed hers in years.

She didn't fully blame Trump for the tax woes, but instead said it was the mostly the fault of Congress, and she was sure that Trump would correct this, if only the media would leave him alone and let him be President.  She also threw in something later about how investigations are keeping him from really being President.

Some people stick their hand in a fire and just leave it there.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Francisco 2.0

[Okie State 3788]

I asked him how much money the tax breaks saved amazon. If he answered it maybe you could give me the number because I missed it from his posts, because all I read was “I don’t know.”

 

He did answer the question...it's impossible to know without more information. As he said, they likely took advantage of things like 100% bonus depreciation in the new law, but also likely took advantage of existing deductions or carry forwards that are not new. Not possible to quantify how much of what though.

[NBMisha 224]

I have always thought that the Amazon tax outcome is strictly legal, and don't care whether it is a result of the tax bill, or would have otherwise been the case.  What I think is fairly stupid on Amazon's part, is knowing this likely result of big profits and zero or close fed taxes, they went ahead with the campaign to fleece state and local governments for their new digs.

They may be getting close to Facebook level of public reaction.  On the other hand, we all love hittng that prime button, so what the fuck.

[EuroHorn 3204]

I love these tax stories.  Nobody talks about

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

A tax story, but it isn't mine.

 

Have a coworker who in 2015-16 became a huge Trumper.  Any time a group was around, if something was mentioned political she was quick on the commentary; "he's such a better person than she is", "he's a businessman, he knows how to get things done", "Meliana is so much prettier than Michelle", and so on.  You get the idea.  Since the election, more of the same.

Until yesterday.  She and her husband had dropped off taxes to the CPA, and the preliminary news was they were going to owe.  Not a large amount, but she said they had never owed taxes in their marriage until now (for perspective, they have two daughters in their early 20's, so something like 25 years).  She and husband kept insisting something wasn't right, but CPA kept confirming.  She was even going to go to HR and get an education on withholding, since she hasn't changed hers in years.

She didn't fully blame Trump for the tax woes, but instead said it was the mostly the fault of Congress, and she was sure that Trump would correct this, if only the media would leave him alone and let him be President.  She also threw in something later about how investigations are keeping him from really being President.

Some people stick their hand in a fire and just leave it there.

So they had less withheld out of their paycheck due to the tax changes?  How did their total tax liability compare year over year?

[Francisco 2.0 32341]

45 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

I love these tax stories.  Nobody talks about

So they had less withheld out of their paycheck due to the tax changes?  How did their total tax liability compare year over year?

Beats me, and I don't want to really discuss it with her.  All I gathered from what I overheard was A) they owe for the first time ever, B) she was going to talk to HR about withholding rates, for she really didn't know what was going on there, C) she didn't fully blame Trump but was close to exonerating him and blaming Congress for having the temerity to put something in writing that he signed into law and D) Trump will fix it if the media/investigations leave him all alone so he can play "President".

 

 

[babysdaddy 2718]

Looks like Amazon paid no Federal Income tax in 2017 either so wasn't just a result of the tax bill.  They did, however pay about $18 Billion in wages employing 615k people.  They've also spent around $40 Billion in capex over the last few years too.  While I agree that it is ridiculous they paid no income tax on their OI, they aren't cheating in anyway.  Big corporations always get caught in the crosshairs though.  Exxon used to be the whipping boy.

[wildcat09 29257]

2 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Looks like Amazon paid no Federal Income tax in 2017 either so wasn't just a result of the tax bill.  They did, however pay about $18 Billion in wages employing 615k people.  They've also spent around $40 Billion in capex over the last few years too.  While I agree that it is ridiculous they paid no income tax on their OI, they aren't cheating in anyway.  Big corporations always get caught in the crosshairs though.  Exxon used to be the whipping boy.

I don't know why shit like this gets mentioned as some sort of acceptable alternative. Paying wages isn't something employers do as a charity.

[Foosters 17733]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't know why shit like this gets mentioned as some sort of acceptable alternative. Paying wages isn't something employers do as a charity.

No I totally get it. Using a shady tax guy, I ended up paying ZERO dollars in fed tax this year. Before you all get upset, I'll have you know that I pay a cleaning lady and a gardener to come to my house 4 times a month. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32341]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/21/falling-tax-refunds-highlight-republican-tax-scam/?utm_term=.82609dee6f65

 

Quote

Earlier this week, Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), chair of the Senate’s Finance Committee, and Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Tex.), the ranking Republican on the House Ways and Means Committee, penned an op-ed in USA Today telling Americans they’ve got it all wrong when it comes to the Republican tax reform and their own personal finances. If you received a surprisingly small tax refund for 2018, don’t you worry. You received the money last year, when you got paid. “Since many workers and their families live paycheck-to-paycheck, getting at least some of their tax cut in advance rather than delaying it a year is a life saver,” they wrote. Besides, they added, “You get to control your money. Not the IRS.”

 

Quote

Note to Republicans: When you need to scold Americans on how they handle their money, you lose, even if you’ve got a point. Tax refunds are down more than $5 billion from this time last year, according to an analysis performed by Investor’s Business Daily. People are squawking — on Instagram, on Twitter and/or to any reporter who will listen to them. Republicans assumed Americans would become converts when they saw they were getting a slightly bigger paycheck, after withholding tables were recalculated in early 2018. They assumed wrong.

 

Spoiler

First, most people never noticed they were receiving more money in their regular take-home paycheck. This isn’t because they like or dislike President Trump. It’s because there’s plenty of evidence that small tax cuts — the typical middle-income filer received a break of less than $20 a week — often go unnoticed. The same thing happened when Barack Obama enacted a temporary tax cut early in his presidency. According to a New York Times-CBS News pollconducted in 2010, more than a year after Americans should have been seeing an increase in take-home pay, a solid majority of people had no clue they’d received a tax rollback. More people, in fact, thought their taxes had increased than decreased.

Second, taking a tax refund is not a financially optimal decision, and one many personal-finance gurus howl about every year, but people like it. The reason for that is rooted in human psychology. Tax refunds work as a form of forced savings for many people, a way of making themselves put money aside for post-holiday bills, vacations or a household repair. Yes, they could set up a savings strategy themselves, but that would leave it there, forever available to spend on a passing fancy or immediate need. More relevant: Many people don’t get around to setting aside dollars in the first place. They spend their money as it comes in. As a result, they rely on their tax refund. They would, apparently, prefer to receive something like a lump sum of $2,135, the average tax refund received in 2018 for a 2017 return. (About 75 percent of all filers received refunds in recent years.) Real estate — if you don’t take the money out in the form of a second mortgage or refinancing — works in a similar fashion. It’s an expensive savings vehicle, but it’s a savings strategy nonetheless, something that accounts for the fact that for many Americans, their home is their main source of wealth.

This behavior around tax refunds, contra congressional Republicans, is not a surrender of control. It’s knowing your weaknesses and making them work for you. People plan on their refunds and react to them in unsurprising ways. According to the recent paper “Tax Refund Expectations and Financial Behavior,” when low- and moderate-income filers receive the refund they expect, they use about 15 percent of it to pay down debt. An unexpected refund, on the hand, leads to increased spending and debt.

Finally, as millions of Americans grapple with their smaller-than-expected refunds, they are hearing more and more about the big winner of the tax-reform scam: corporate America. Amazon (whose founder, Jeffrey P. Bezos, is the owner of The Post) owed zero corporate income tax last year. And as Axios reported earlier this week, General Motors, which made $11.8 billion in profit last year, filed for a refund of slightly more than $100 million.

There is no argument the Republicans can come up with to get around this reality. It’s not just that getting into arguments with people about human nature is a loser’s game. It’s that the GOP tax scam was always designed to benefit one group and one group only — the richest and wealthiest among us. Remember when Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) claimed, “My donors are basically saying, ‘get it done or don’t ever call me again’"? It’s why they pushed their reform effort as hard as they did. The refund imbroglio is bringing this point home to voters once again. Little wonder majorities of Americans say they support raising taxes on the highest earners and the wealthiest Americans. They know they’ve been had.

 

[gmr548 16514]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:41 AM, wildcat09 said:

I don't know why shit like this gets mentioned as some sort of acceptable alternative. Paying wages isn't something employers do as a charity.

Not to mention those wages, for a large segment of employees, are a pittance. And they are as low as they can get away with for all but senior management.

[gmr548 16514]

36 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/21/falling-tax-refunds-highlight-republican-tax-scam/?utm_term=.82609dee6f65

 

 

 

  Hide contents

First, most people never noticed they were receiving more money in their regular take-home paycheck. This isn’t because they like or dislike President Trump. It’s because there’s plenty of evidence that small tax cuts — the typical middle-income filer received a break of less than $20 a week — often go unnoticed. The same thing happened when Barack Obama enacted a temporary tax cut early in his presidency. According to a New York Times-CBS News pollconducted in 2010, more than a year after Americans should have been seeing an increase in take-home pay, a solid majority of people had no clue they’d received a tax rollback. More people, in fact, thought their taxes had increased than decreased.

Second, taking a tax refund is not a financially optimal decision, and one many personal-finance gurus howl about every year, but people like it. The reason for that is rooted in human psychology. Tax refunds work as a form of forced savings for many people, a way of making themselves put money aside for post-holiday bills, vacations or a household repair. Yes, they could set up a savings strategy themselves, but that would leave it there, forever available to spend on a passing fancy or immediate need. More relevant: Many people don’t get around to setting aside dollars in the first place. They spend their money as it comes in. As a result, they rely on their tax refund. They would, apparently, prefer to receive something like a lump sum of $2,135, the average tax refund received in 2018 for a 2017 return. (About 75 percent of all filers received refunds in recent years.) Real estate — if you don’t take the money out in the form of a second mortgage or refinancing — works in a similar fashion. It’s an expensive savings vehicle, but it’s a savings strategy nonetheless, something that accounts for the fact that for many Americans, their home is their main source of wealth.

This behavior around tax refunds, contra congressional Republicans, is not a surrender of control. It’s knowing your weaknesses and making them work for you. People plan on their refunds and react to them in unsurprising ways. According to the recent paper “Tax Refund Expectations and Financial Behavior,” when low- and moderate-income filers receive the refund they expect, they use about 15 percent of it to pay down debt. An unexpected refund, on the hand, leads to increased spending and debt.

Finally, as millions of Americans grapple with their smaller-than-expected refunds, they are hearing more and more about the big winner of the tax-reform scam: corporate America. Amazon (whose founder, Jeffrey P. Bezos, is the owner of The Post) owed zero corporate income tax last year. And as Axios reported earlier this week, General Motors, which made $11.8 billion in profit last year, filed for a refund of slightly more than $100 million.

There is no argument the Republicans can come up with to get around this reality. It’s not just that getting into arguments with people about human nature is a loser’s game. It’s that the GOP tax scam was always designed to benefit one group and one group only — the richest and wealthiest among us. Remember when Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) claimed, “My donors are basically saying, ‘get it done or don’t ever call me again’"? It’s why they pushed their reform effort as hard as they did. The refund imbroglio is bringing this point home to voters once again. Little wonder majorities of Americans say they support raising taxes on the highest earners and the wealthiest Americans. They know they’ve been had.

 

Rs have actively worked to create and subsequently benefit from a low information electorate that cannot think critically. Reap what you sow, even if it is minor in comparison.

[Francisco 2.0 32341]

Hey! Refunds are up to almost 17% less now than last year!*

(yes, it's a mindless argument that refunds = a gift from Uncle Sam or whatever, but lotsa folks just don't understand maths.  Plus, this is solely the problem of the GOP. Their fan club in the SEC states and the midwest don't give a shit about withholding tables or that $21 per month increase they saw in 2018)

 

https://www.axios.com/tax-refunds-down-16-percent-a643f327-1991-45a1-888a-659db55b4833.html

 

Quote

The average tax refund through the first three weeks of filing season is down 16.7% from the same period last year, according to IRS data cited by The Hill.

The big picture: This is the third straight week that Americans, on average, have seen lower refunds. Democrats have seized on the issue as a sign that the GOP tax cut has not benefitted the average Americans. The Trump administration, meanwhile, has claimed that citing refund data is "misleading" because of timing issues, and because most Americans are seeing larger paychecks throughout the year.

 

[Mdhorn 5911]

Just did our taxes and we're 2k in the hole, which is a total 180.  Usually we're up that amount. This is with Turbo Tax which is what we always use. First time we've owed since owning a house--almost 15 years.  On the positive side, we squirrel away money for retirement that isn't taxed.  But I can't wait until the full Trump base receives this message. We may see pitchforks yet.    

Edited February 25, 2019 by Mdhorn

[David Dennison 18659]

4 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Just did our taxes and we're 2k in the hole, which is a total 180.  Usually we're up that amount. This is with Turbo Tax which is what we always use. First time we've owed since owning a house--almost 15 years.  On the positive side, we squirrel away money for retirement that isn't taxed.  But I can't wait until the full Trump base receives this message. We may see pitchforks yet.    

They'll blame it on Obama.

[zork 629]

10 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Just did our taxes and we're 2k in the hole, which is a total 180.  Usually we're up that amount. This is with Turbo Tax which is what we always use. First time we've owed since owning a house--almost 15 years.  On the positive side, we squirrel away money for retirement that isn't taxed.  But I can't wait until the full Trump base receives this message. We may see pitchforks yet.    

Did you lose salt deductions this year or was your withholding different, or something else? 

Turbotax has a thing at the end that lets you compare the last two years of summary information?  what was the summary of that summary besides just needing to pay as a result of the total picture?

Edited February 25, 2019 by zork

[Mdhorn 5911]

1 minute ago, zork said:

Did you lose salt deductions this year or was your withholding different, or something else?

Overall, they changed the withholdings so they began holding less in taxes monthly for one.  I never checked on mine thinking it's the same as it always is--why would it change if I didn't change it?  So although it gives the appearance of making more, we're not.  I don't really spend much--except on food.  Oh yeah, I thought it would be great to pay off more of the home note two years ago.  Everything for the most part is paid off--including the vehicles.  Plus we have no kids but were hit especially hard with dog surgeries.  We paid out close to 15k in dog surgeries for two pups this year.  Amazing how every surgery costs 5k--knee, stomach--doesn't matter. Oh well.  Another positive is I've booked two weeks in and around Yellowstone on July 4th so no DC festivities

[Mdhorn 5911]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They'll blame it on Obama.

that's what I said--Thanks Obama!?  Can't wait to see Trumpcare.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

Last week I received the third "corrected" version of the 1099 from my brokerage account.  I don't know when I'll actually do my taxes because as soon as I file I'm pretty sure another "corrected" version is going to be sent.

[Aqua Buddha 14521]

The refund surprise is a story that warms my heart.  Aside from 90% of the people not understanding the tax system we have, it's like they're finally realizing that the tax cut wasn't for them.  It was so small, most of them didn't even notice throughout the year.