The Last of Us coming to HBO

[Js1 87175]

Well huh

[Ted Lange 16408]

45 minutes.  WTF

[speed817 19898]

So.....

Spoiler

Was Joel justified in his actions?  Did he doom humanity?  Is humanity even worth saving?

 

[Pig Bellmont 8884]

Spoiler

I guess I knew there was going to be another season and also given the tenor of the show that there’d be no happy ending, but uh wow. I guess it was pretty likely Ellie wouldn’t survive the surgery and only somewhat likely it could work? Lying to her and hiding all the murdering at the hospital seems selfish. Maybe not irredeemably so, but ugh

 

[BrickTop 487]

So.....
Spoiler

Was Joel justified in his actions?  Did he doom humanity?  Is humanity even worth saving?

 

Spoiler

I see it both ways, maybe he doomed humanity, maybe not, reminds me a lot of man on fire with Denzel, once they bonded, no one was harming that girl while he could do anything about it

[hornian 5291]

51 minutes ago, speed817 said:

So.....

  Hide contents

Was Joel justified in his actions?  Did he doom humanity?  Is humanity even worth saving?

 

Spoiler

I mean; that’s a lot of speculation to get to “she could save humanity.”

We think it has been growing he whole life, we think it’s in her brain, we think it’s sending a messenger signal, we think we have to remove it to study it, we think we can then keep that alive to recreate the messenger signal, and we think that the messenger signal can be given to everyone as a cure instead of just infecting them since they haven’t had the infection since birth. 
 

if any of those steps fails, Ellie is just as dead and there’s no cure. 
 

But if you keep her alive; she’s alive. And she already saved one person - Joel. 
 

Ocam’s razor says she would probably have died for no reason. So keeping her alive works for me. 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by hornian

[TexasMan 11447]

37 minutes ago, speed817 said:

So.....

  Reveal hidden contents

Was Joel justified in his actions?  Did he doom humanity?  Is humanity even worth saving?

 

Here's my thoughts. 

NOTE: I've never played the game

 

I think Ellie knew Joel was lying about the Fireflies. She had said earlier in the episode that she wasn't going to give up on the cure. That she had gone through too much to stop, and that she was going all the way.

I think it was explained to her by the doctors and/or Marlene that she was going to have sacrifice her life for the cure, while Joel was knocked out. That's why when she woke up in the back of the car she was groggy but confused. And once he told her that story about getting her out of there that she turned around because she was mad/disappointed because she knew he was lying to her about that.

That's why she seemed distant on that final hike. She gave him one last chance to admit he was lying about it, but he doubled down. This may lead to trust issues with Joel for her in the future. 

But like I said, I've never played, so I could be way off. 

 

[HornOnTheBayou 9062]

I'm not spoiler tagging my answer, so don't keep reading if you haven't watched the finale.

 

 

My son is around Ellie's age. If he wanted to be the one to provide the cure for humanity and I was 99.9% sure that his brain would bring about the cure, then I would allow the surgery. But if I was 50% sure his brain would bring about the cure, I'm shooting up the whole fucking hospital.

[achooloco 1086]

Never played the game and in fact didn’t know it existed until the show came out. Just watched the final ep of this season. 
 

Joel a stone cold “fuck you, I’m right”. They obviously allude to it multiple times but very satisfying in a macabre way to see him “kill people because we (I) had to”. He does not fucking play around. See target, get target and fuck you if you’re in the way. Period.

Great episode for me. And in regards to the mom who played/voiced Ellie in the game kind of crazy how human faces/features sorta repeat in our genome. I swear I have an uncle that has facial features that I’ve seen in Ecuadorians and Colombians even though we are Mexican as hell. Same for the Ellie and Ana actresses (to me at least); they have no blood relation but look very much alike (to me). Either way, great season, can’t wait for season 2.

[wild_turkey 3296]

My son is around Ellie's age. If he wanted to be the one to provide the cure for humanity and I was 99.9% sure that his brain would bring about the cure, then I would allow the surgery. But if I was 50% sure his brain would bring about the cure, I'm shooting up the whole fucking hospital.

Agreed. The surgery and the hopes of developing a vaccine or a cure seemed like a huge long shot. I don’t blame Joel one bit.

The hospital shootout reminded me a lot of Man on Fire. Great scene.

[speed817 19898]

6 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Never played the game and in fact didn’t know it existed until the show came out. Just watched the final ep of this season. 
 

Joel a stone cold “fuck you, I’m right”. They obviously allude to it multiple times but very satisfying in a macabre way to see him “kill people because we (I) had to”. He does not fucking play around. See target, get target and fuck you if you’re in the way. Period.

Great episode for me. And in regards to the mom who played/voiced Ellie in the game kind of crazy how human faces/features sorta repeat in our genome. I swear I have an uncle that has facial features that I’ve seen in Ecuadorians and Colombians even though we are Mexican as hell. Same for the Ellie and Ana actresses (to me at least); they have no blood relation but look very much alike (to me). Either way, great season, can’t wait for season 2.

Anna also played Chrissy Seaver from Growing Pains back in the day....

[bernorange 8385]

The episode felt slightly rushed to me.  I remember when I played the game that the reveal on the surgery meaning Ellie had to die was a gut punch and Joel struggled with the issue a little bit before going full Denzel.  Ellie's reaction in the show felt about right. My memory might not be super accurate as it was many years ago though.

I remember in the game navigating that hospital in Denzel mode was a PITA.  Woe to you if you wasted and ran out of ammo.  Show Joel made it look easy.

[tchookem 3967]

The episode felt slightly rushed to me.  I remember when I played the game that the reveal on the surgery meaning Ellie had to die was a gut punch and Joel struggled with the issue a little bit before going full Denzel.  Ellie's reaction in the show felt about right. My memory might not be super accurate as it was many years ago though.
I remember in the game navigating that hospital in Denzel mode was a PITA.  Woe to you if you wasted and ran out of ammo.  Show Joel made it look easy.

I agree that it felt rushed, and it did seem too easy. Then I'm thinking, "what do they show instead?". I don't know the answer to that question. Maybe I'm just glum that it's over... for now.

[WBT 20969]

Just started it and I didn't see that HotD crossover cold open coming

[hornian 5291]

1 minute ago, WBT said:

Just started it and I didn't see that HotD crossover cold open coming

Would have been a much more brutal child birth if it was a true crossover. The baby just liked slipped on out during the struggle in this one. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by hornian

[bschoolprof 6341]

So the Marlene chick healed up just fine and had an entourage that got her to the fireflies quicker than Joel. Seems like she could have just taken Ellie all along. Oh well. 

[burntorangebongos 10826]

52 minutes ago, TexasMan said:

Here's my thoughts. 

NOTE: I've never played the game

 

 

  Hide contents

I think Ellie knew Joel was lying about the Fireflies. She had said earlier in the episode that she wasn't going to give up on the cure. That she had gone through too much to stop, and that she was going all the way.

I think it was explained to her by the doctors and/or Marlene that she was going to have sacrifice her life for the cure, while Joel was knocked out. That's why when she woke up in the back of the car she was groggy but confused. And once he told her that story about getting her out of there that she turned around because she was mad/disappointed because she knew he was lying to her about that.

That's why she seemed distant on that final hike. She gave him one last chance to admit he was lying about it, but he doubled down. This may lead to trust issues with Joel for her in the future. 

But like I said, I've never played, so I could be way off. 

Marlene says to Joel when he first wakes up that Ellie doesn't know anything so that it can be peaceful. They were keeping her in the dark to be humane to her. Marlene actually thought those words would comfort Joel. 

Holy Shit, the dude went all John Wick on errbody's ass. I know the big lie he tells Ellie at the end is going to come back to fuck up his relationship with her when she finds out. She isn't very forgiving, imo. 

 

 

[Haphap 743]

4 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

So the Marlene chick healed up just fine and had an entourage that got her to the fireflies quicker than Joel. Seems like she could have just taken Ellie all along. Oh well. 

I hope ear-less lieutenant survived and was just left behind somewhere

[LonghornSean 4103]

Damn, that was a great episode.

[Haphap 743]

2 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

So the Marlene chick healed up just fine and had an entourage that got her to the fireflies quicker than Joel. Seems like she could have just taken Ellie all along. Oh well. 

that is true.  Although in fairness the original mission was just to get Ellie out of the Boston QZ and hand over to the Fireflies at a rendezvous point.

[kingkoopa6 8684]

Good god Joel. These men have families. Hahhahaha 

 

bad ass 

[Buzzrock 15136]

He saved her but for what? If she ever learns the truth she’ll hate him forever, and will likely try to find a way to sacrifice herself for the cure.

Put me in the didn’t-like-the-ending camp.

[pops 7142]

Ashley Johnson in the open was fucking awesome. 

[pops 7142]

So to all the gamefags... isn't something missing from the hospital scene (other than it being way too easy in the show) ?   I don't really remember any moral quandry. I think I remember in the game the doctors were bad and Marlene even turned heel. Am I just high?   

[futureman 22692]

20 minutes ago, pops said:

Am I just high?   

probably?

[hornian 5291]

56 minutes ago, pops said:

So to all the gamefags... isn't something missing from the hospital scene (other than it being way too easy in the show) ?   I don't really remember any moral quandry. I think I remember in the game the doctors were bad and Marlene even turned heel. Am I just high?   

Yes, you're misremembering. The show laid out the moral quandary they same way as the game. Probably just with the game, you don't have any choice - you have to kill the people in order to see the ending cutscenes, so you identify more with Joel (in that you've been invested for hours of your life playing the game, you aren't going to just walk away and NOT see how it ends) and don't have the distance that watching the show provides.

[BHMCruiser 1828]

12 hours ago, speed817 said:

So.....

  Reveal hidden contents

Was Joel justified in his actions?  Did he doom humanity?  Is humanity even worth saving?

 

Yes. Yes. No. 

[hayden_horn 11402]

1 hour ago, hornian said:

Yes, you're misremembering. The show laid out the moral quandary they same way as the game. Probably just with the game, you don't have any choice - you have to kill the people in order to see the ending cutscenes, so you identify more with Joel (in that you've been invested for hours of your life playing the game, you aren't going to just walk away and NOT see how it ends) and don't have the distance that watching the show provides.

it's actually worse (better?) in the game. you spend the whole game wading through blood of hunters, zombies, etc to get her to that point. then they (make you?) really unleash joel. there are hints throughout the game of what joel is capable of doing. he has a whole sordid survival history we aren't fully privy to but we know he's done some bad shit. in fact, tess frames this as his redemption. which it might be but he does some bad shit to get there. 

the game really holds up a mirror though. you kill the entire game sometimes in really monstrous ways but only at the end with joel's rampage does it suddenly feel gross. no spoilers but as joel you kind of have to shoot the doctor but you don't have to shoot the nurses. i shot the nurses because i was in for a penny but yeah. 

and then joel lying about it. twice. and the okay at the end. 

so great. 

also thought the pacing was perfect. your last real boss in the game is that fucking psycho cannibal. everything after that is denouement even your rampage in the hospital and the giraffes and all that. 

[Texzilla58 4790]

I would have liked to have seen Ellie presented with the dilemma. She has lived with death all her life, and lives in a world without meaning. She would have made the sacrifice in my opinion. Otherwise she has no future.

[Mittens 8705]

Where to Try Cordyceps, the Star of ‘The Last of Us,’ in Texas

[Js1 87175]

46 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

but as joel you kind of have to shoot the doctor but you don't have to shoot the nurses. i shot the nurses because i was in for a penny but yeah. 

 

Remind me never to piss you off 

[hornian 5291]

26 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Where to Try Cordyceps, the Star of ‘The Last of Us,’ in Texas

[tchookem 3967]

Remind me never to piss you off 

One of the times I played it, I used a flamethrower.

[Buzzrock 15136]

The Fireflies seem like the sort of organization that would have tried to recreate Ellie’s immunity. I mean, they know the recipe.

[Kennythetiger 9621]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

The Fireflies seem like the sort of organization that would have tried to recreate Ellie’s immunity. I mean, they know the recipe.

Did they, though?  Ellie’s mom told the leader that she cut the umbilical cord before the bite, not after. 

[CooterBrown 18287]

Did they, though?  Ellie’s mom told the leader that she cut the umbilical cord before the bite, not after. 

She lied to Marlene so she wouldn’t kill the baby. She was bitten, killed the infected, saw she had given birth, cut the cord, and then noticed she’d been bitten.

[Buzzrock 15136]

Did they, though?  Ellie’s mom told the leader that she cut the umbilical cord before the bite, not after. 

I’m pretty sure they figured it out once Ellie proved to be immune.

[Eskimohorn 5682]

I would have liked to have seen Ellie presented with the dilemma. She has lived with death all her life, and lives in a world without meaning. She would have made the sacrifice in my opinion. Otherwise she has no future.

It still comes down to the doctor guessing after 1 day or whatever and doing some sort of half-assed procedure. Seem to recall Marlene not wanting Fedra to do the same thing to Elle. So Joel was not having it.

Marlene allowing Joel to walk out was very videogame-y. Dude is Jason Bourne. She done messed up.

[utxmike05 1833]

Weak. So many great episodes and they cap it with that short piece?  Yea it was cool to see him rage on everyone (a little too easy imo) to get Ellie.

But...maybe because the Ellie character annoyed me at times...I was kinda OK sacrificing her for a cure. 

Sorry Joel, this is not the way.

[wild_turkey 3296]

I’m pretty sure they figured it out once Ellie proved to be immune.

I’m assuming no one knew Ellie was immune until she got bit in the mall. How would anyone have known prior to that?

And I suppose after the mall incident, Marlene kept her for holding out of respect for her mom? Seems a little out of character because everyone else gets immediately shot.

[MissingInAction 25555]

Loved Joel's advance through the hospital. Using corners for cover and taking weapons/ammo off his slain enemies. The window kill was fucking savage. Used that tactic myself. 

I too slaughtered the entire medical staff. No half measures when it comes to saving baby girl.

God damn, Pedro's delivery of that line to Marlene right before he put her down was so fucking perfect. The look on his face. It all encapsulated his motivations so genuinely, and it was fucking terrifying. 

Bravo 10/10

[Hank_Hill 20021]

17 hours ago, TexasMan said:

Here's my thoughts. 

NOTE: I've never played the game

 

 

  Hide contents

I think Ellie knew Joel was lying about the Fireflies. She had said earlier in the episode that she wasn't going to give up on the cure. That she had gone through too much to stop, and that she was going all the way.

I think it was explained to her by the doctors and/or Marlene that she was going to have sacrifice her life for the cure, while Joel was knocked out. That's why when she woke up in the back of the car she was groggy but confused. And once he told her that story about getting her out of there that she turned around because she was mad/disappointed because she knew he was lying to her about that.

That's why she seemed distant on that final hike. She gave him one last chance to admit he was lying about it, but he doubled down. This may lead to trust issues with Joel for her in the future. 

But like I said, I've never played, so I could be way off. 

 

I don’t think they explained shit to her. She seemed surprised that she had even been given anesthesia. “Wait, what drugs?”

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don’t think they explained shit to her. She seemed surprised that she had even been given anesthesia. “Wait, what drugs?”

Y’all need to put your phones down during tv.

Marlene literally told Joel “We didn’t tell her” as part of her pitch to reassure him.

She expected Old Joel - the guy who couldn’t even give his lover of 20 years a title or affection.

Not New Joel - the guy who will scavenge an entire city for some Chef Boyardee or commit mass murder and war crimes to see his “daughter” joyful again.

Marlene miscalculated.

[Hank_Hill 20021]

That too

[CooterBrown 18287]

I’m assuming no one knew Ellie was immune until she got bit in the mall. How would anyone have known prior to that?

And I suppose after the mall incident, Marlene kept her for holding out of respect for her mom? Seems a little out of character because everyone else gets immediately shot.

Marlene didn’t have time after the mall incident. When we met Ellie, she was under watch by the Fireflies to see if she would turn and Marlene said it had been 3 weeks and she hadn’t turned. So, the mall had just happened. I would guess that Ellie held out until just a few days before and her wound was already healed before Marlene found out. That was enough evidence to just lock her up and observe instead shooting her instantly.

[Buzzrock 15136]

Y’all need to put your phones down during tv.

Marlene literally told Joel “We didn’t tell her” as part of her pitch to reassure him.

She expected Old Joel - the guy who couldn’t even give his lover of 20 years a title or affection.

Not New Joel - the guy who will scavenge an entire city for some Chef Boyardee or commit mass murder and war crimes to see his “daughter” joyful again.

Marlene miscalculated.

I wasn’t on my phone. I just don’t trust anyone on the show, Marlene included. She likely knew Ellie would have to die and never told her or Joel. That’s fucked up.

[hayden_horn 11402]

54 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

I don’t think they explained shit to her. She seemed surprised that she had even been given anesthesia. “Wait, what drugs?”

yeah, it does bring in a whole consent angle.

"well, we're pretty sure she would do it, so we're doing it" isn't exactly a moral revelation.

i mean, yeah, she might well have done it, and she basically had resigned herself to the end of the journey being the end of her life potentially. that's what the whole hangdog thing was about (in the game it's really disconcerting, because she's so irrepressible the whole time), but they basically snat5ched her up, figured out who she was, drugged her and prepped her for surgery. bingo bango, let's go, she'd do it, so let's not ask her.

[Hank_Hill 20021]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, it does bring in a whole consent angle.

"well, we're pretty sure she would do it, so we're doing it" isn't exactly a moral revelation.

i mean, yeah, she might well have done it, and she basically had resigned herself to the end of the journey being the end of her life potentially. that's what the whole hangdog thing was about (in the game it's really disconcerting, because she's so irrepressible the whole time), but they basically snat5ched her up, figured out who she was, drugged her and prepped her for surgery. bingo bango, let's go, she'd do it, so let's not ask her.

Right, because Marlene knows her so well after having her locked up pissed for 3 weeks. She definitely knows what her choices would be. 

[hornmpa96 2666]

Bella Ramsey is an amazing actor. I really enjoyed her character in GOT and she has been truly outstanding in the Last of Us. My Sunday evenings just freed up.

[Texzilla58 4790]

Maybe I’m wrong but I felt Joel and Bella knew in their gut that she might get processed into a bunch of test tubes. When Joel offered her an out after Silver Lodge she took a breath and said let’s go finish it. I never thought she thought they would just draw some blood.