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Super Twosday Gametime Thread

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46155

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

If you want to determine how much was pro-Bernie and how much was anti-Hillary, just compare the margins of the states 2016 vs 2020.

I know there is a desire to dismiss Sanders, but it's hard to do that in a mathematically or logically defensible way.

Well Biden is running roughshod over the upper peninsula in michigan where Bernie won in 2016.  If you have other data that proves otherwise, I'm all ears.  I am pretty stunned that Bernie is doing this poorly.  Trying to rationalize it, honestly.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1957

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5 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I'm not trying to run off young voters. I can understand why they wanted Bernie. When I was 18-25 there is no doubt that I would have been virulently afflicted with No Compromise. Yet, that's what it takes sometimes. I'm all for playing hardball with the Rs. Because I don't expect anything else from them. However, I can afford to be conciliatory with my own party. The question is whether or not the young voters will vote. If voting out the rat bastards that deny science, embrace hate, and do everything in their power to obstruct the basic functions of government isn't enough I don't know what else to offer. You want policy enacted? Get down there on the meat grinder. It's not pretty. It's dirty and distasteful. But, that's what it takes. 

Having a "no compromise" platform is what destroyed the GOP.  I am glad the democratic party is soundly dismissing that platform. It is in the best interest of the US. 

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deech

deech 2389

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Well Biden is running roughshod over the upper peninsula in michigan where Bernie won in 2016.  If you have other data that proves otherwise, I'm all ears.  I am pretty stunned that Bernie is doing this poorly.  Trying to rationalize it, honestly.

People legitimately buy the argument that his policies will struggle in a General Election and beating Trump is issue #1, #2, #3, and #292

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cam4mav

cam4mav 772

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I'm very curious to see what happens in Washington. I'm in Seattle and mailed my ballot before super tuesday 1. 

Sanders is going to do better with the early voters, huge ad presence here too.

But everyone that was voting for 'whoever is left besides that loud angry man' has been turning out in other states in large numbers. That's a very bad sign for Trump.

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cam4mav

cam4mav 772

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2 minutes ago, deech said:

People legitimately buy the argument that his policies will struggle in a General Election and beating Trump is issue #1, #2, #3, and #292

Exactly. People want change from cheeto. But not thaaaaat much change.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I'm not trying to run off young voters. I can understand why they wanted Bernie. When I was 18-25 there is no doubt that I would have been virulently afflicted with No Compromise. Yet, that's what it takes sometimes. I'm all for playing hardball with the Rs. Because I don't expect anything else from them. However, I can afford to be conciliatory with my own party. The question is whether or not the young voters will vote. If voting out the rat bastards that deny science, embrace hate, and do everything in their power to obstruct the basic functions of government isn't enough I don't know what else to offer. You want policy enacted? Get down there on the meat grinder. It's not pretty. It's dirty and distasteful. But, that's what it takes. 

Please remember - you have been told they haven't turned out - but the young vote is UP this cycle.

They are the future of this Party.

But more importantly, Biden cannot win without them.  Be humble in victory - and reach out to them. They have a much less hopeful future than you did at their age. 

Edited by washparkhorn
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46155

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1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

Please remember - you have been told they haven't turned out - but the young vote is UP this cycle.

They are the future of this Party.

But more importantly, Biden cannot win without them.  Be humble in victory - and reach out to them. They have a much less hopeful future than you did at their age. 

Absolutely.  I'm not much older than the "young" voters.  Well, I'm technically a millennial anyway.  I think I would say, "hey, your ideas are important.  they need to be pushed forward in the future.  this election may not be the perfect time.  you will have another shot."  Or something similar.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13497

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Just now, G650 said:

 

Biden also had the help of the entire party before Super Tuesday. And the entire party was attacking Bernie for the entire time before that.

Are we going to pretend that Joe has been running a good, strong campaign this whole time and achieved all this by his lonesome?

He won the nomination, you guys don't have to keep fighting that war. Now is the time to be honest in our assessments with 8 months to prepare for the general.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

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5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Absolutely.  I'm not much older than the "young" voters.  Well, I'm technically a millennial anyway.  I think I would say, "hey, your ideas are important.  they need to be pushed forward in the future.  this election may not be the perfect time.  you will have another shot."  Or something similar.  

Amen.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

Biden also had the help of the entire party before Super Tuesday. And the entire party was attacking Bernie for the entire time before that.

Are we going to pretend that Joe has been running a good, strong campaign this whole time and achieved all this by his lonesome?

He won the nomination, you guys don't have to keep fighting that war. Now is the time to be honest in our assessments with 8 months to prepare for the general.

We have two good candidates. Both with weaknesses, but with great strengths as well. If one falters, the other can pick up the baton. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46155

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

They should wait for a more convenient season.

Yes, one where we aren't fighting an existential threat to our entire system of government and where super idealistic ideas may not scare off the majority of the rest of the party.  But I'm just talking here.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

They should wait for a more convenient season.

Or realize this is the season and we can make remarkable changes in this battered and bruised nation. Some ideas work for ALL Americans now. No reason to squander this nation when Trump is horribly wounded. Solidify the result. Almost all of these candidates started out with magnificent aspirations. No reason to abandon the hopes and dreams of All Americans - young and old. 

Look at the exit polling. Voters expect the Democrats will listen to what they want from Democrats.

 

 

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Zombie

Zombie 284

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Bernie pulled the party left and and the country left and we're all better off for it because Biden will be working from a far further left status quo in terms of policy than he otherwise would have pre 2016. I'm grateful for Bernie and hope he remains a strong voice for Democrats and progressive policy in the general election.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46155

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1 hour ago, Zombie said:

Bernie pulled the party left and and the country left and we're all better off for it because Biden will be working from a far further left status quo in terms of policy than he otherwise would have pre 2016. I'm grateful for Bernie and hope he remains a strong voice for Democrats and progressive policy in the general election.

This is important.  Biden is further left than Obama was.  Which is nuts.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21758

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Most people don't want to vote for a political "revolution" after 3+ years of Trump. Obviously there are other factors but this seems to be the main takeaway.

I've never seen such a momentum shift happen so quick. After SC, it feels like voters are thinking "Enough of this shit. Let's go beat Trump."

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27627

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29 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Please remember - you have been told they haven't turned out - but the young vote is UP this cycle.

They are the future of this Party.

But more importantly, Biden cannot win without them.  Be humble in victory - and reach out to them. They have a much less hopeful future than you did at their age. 

I had a hopeful future?

GenX does not recognize that phrase. 

Blood, sweat, and tears. I bring you no warm fuzzies. Grab a shovel and start digging the coal out of your grave. Pour whatever bitter brew you've chosen. There is work to be done. Bite down hard. If you want out of the damned pit you don't get there sitting on your ass.

There are others with comfortable words. I bring you the bite of rust being knocked off the old steel. 

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19521

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Just now, cactusflinthead said:

I had a hopeful future?

GenX does not recognize that phrase. 

Blood, sweat, and tears. I bring you no warm fuzzies. Grab a shovel and start digging the coal out of your grave. Pour whatever bitter brew you've chosen. There is work to be done. Bite down hard. If you want out of the damned pit you don't get there sitting on your ass.

There are others with comfortable words. I bring you the bite of rust being knocked off the old steel. 

 

Oh well. Whatever. Never mind.

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bolverk

bolverk 30320

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This primary has been largely about a choice between Restoration (Biden), Reformation (Warren), and Revolution (Bernie). Democrats appear to have chosen the first option (albeit a little more progressive than what might yet be restored).

Thanks, Bernie.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 5079

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5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Watch Van Jones' reaction. He lays out the issue well.

 

What this proves is that Bernie's base does not vote and part of the votes he got in 2016 were probably anti-Hillary votes. Democrats that vote will come out this time since they will not be sick to their stomachs with Hillary.

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gmr548

gmr548 16691

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13 minutes ago, Zombie said:

Bernie pulled the party left and and the country left and we're all better off for it because Biden will be working from a far further left status quo in terms of policy than he otherwise would have pre 2016. I'm grateful for Bernie and hope he remains a strong voice for Democrats and progressive policy in the general election.

It's certainly demoralizing for progressives to see Joe Fucking Biden en route to the nomination. That much isn't going to be stopped, save for an act of god.

That said, we have to hold Biden accountable from within the party if he wins. There are two things worse than a Biden presidency where progressives are constantly hounding his ass: one where they're not, and a Trump presidency.

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Voters are beating Bernie Sanders. He's not winning elections.

 Yeah, this. Young people aren't showing up at the rate he needs. He isn't making significant inroads with anyone outside of his base. It is what it is. The optimist in me hopes that 30 years from now, this country will look back at Sanders in 2016-20 and realize we owe him a lot for laying the groundwork for a more perfect union. But there's nothing rigged or shady going on right now. More people want someone else to be the nominee. Oh well.

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gmr548

gmr548 16691

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3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Well since Bernie is destined to lose I think it would be wise to have patience as this plays itself out. We are 8 months out from the election so let's see how you guys react if Bernie decides to keep fighting until he is mathematically eliminated.

I'm sure he will. The writing was on the wall in 2016 and he kept going. He has mountains of cash and a strong network. And I'm all for it if he wants to do that - it's a chance to keep shifting the Democratic platform overwhelmingly for the better like he has been doing over the past for years.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8884

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1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

I'm sure he will. The writing was on the wall in 2016 and he kept going. He has mountains of cash and a strong network. And I'm all for it if he wants to do that - it's a chance to keep shifting the Democratic platform overwhelmingly for the better like he has been doing over the past for years.

I think he and his Twitter bro’s will do more damage than good if this happens. Retweeting Trump campaign talking points today doesn’t move the platform, it just needlessly tears down our candidate. He’s got no path to the nomination, he needs to stop running 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46155

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

It would be great if young people showed up to vote, but I'm not holding my breath. They aren't even showing up to vote for Bernie Sanders.

That is concerning, but we need the ones who DID show up to show up again in November.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46155

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Young people showed up more in 2020 than they did in 2016.

Not sure where this constant shitting on the young people comes from and I'm not sure what its purpose is, either.

I think you are right.  And I think some of them voted for Biden.  From what I've seen, Bernie's youngins didn't show up more than 2016.  I could be wrong.

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27627

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12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Oh well. Whatever. Never mind.

Hope is cool. What do you want?

Want me to lie to you that I saw a hopeful nation that believed Reagan's lies?

It was a crock of shit. You want M4A? You want legal weed? Me too. It's going to be a long, hard slog. There will be compromises. It won't be easy. You are going to have to show people that you are going to show up and work for it.

Hoping is what we do on the recruiting thread. This shit is real. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19521

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5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Young people showed up more in 2020 than they did in 2016.

Not sure where this constant shitting on the young people comes from and I'm not sure what its purpose is, either.

Until they start voting in greater numbers, politicians are not going to respond to their political demands.

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SaucyJack

SaucyJack 3519

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Until they start voting in greater numbers, politicians are not going to respond to their political demands.

Yep.  As a percentage of the total vote, 18-29 vote is lower in 2020 than 2016, so far.

 

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19521

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5 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Hope is cool. What do you want?

Want me to lie to you that I saw a hopeful nation that believed Reagan's lies?

It was a crock of shit. You want M4A? You want legal weed? Me too. It's going to be a long, hard slog. There will be compromises. It won't be easy. You are going to have to show people that you are going to show up and work for it.

Hoping is what we do on the recruiting thread. This shit is real. 

Aw, man. I thought Gen X would recognize Gen X.

Poor Kurt.

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