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New UT Basketball Arena

Pasken

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Was that the one where the dude put the rock up with 8 seconds to go from beyond half-court because he thought it said :00 and not :08?

 

It was a midday weekend game.  Atmosphere was fun as hell as I recall...

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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One other fact we need to look at is...even though we are a large school...our student body heads for home during Thanksgiving and then halfway thru finals to MLK Day.  That means in a typical season, about 8 out of 17 games are played during holiday breaks.  At a school like Duke or Kansas, no reason those people wanna leave campus to go home for anything.  At UT, 40k out of our 50k head for the DFW/Houston/San Antonio/RGV/et. al. areas.  Or tell me I'm wrong, but I go to most of my games during the holiday breaks and there's maybe 500 students at the absolute peak.  Doesn't matter if it's UCONN or UTSA.  You can arrange the arena all you want, our students don't stick around to see hoops games in early January.  Building around their involvement is only going to be effective about half the games.  


You don’t think Duke students go home for the holidays?

Kansas is a bit unique in that even when they go home, home is only 30-45 minutes from campus for most of the students.
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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It sure as shit doesn't look like they go home from TV anyway.  

I don't know the numbers and I just want a cool stadium for hoops like the rest of you (as a longtime cranky season ticket holder).  And I'd like to think if we have a great place, the students will stick around.  But I went to school on the East Coast, when the holidays come---you either make the long trek home or you dig in the break.  For such a big school, it seems like the huge majority of our students just choose to head back to DFW or HOuston or South Texas...and that's fine.  Who is gonna stick around for an extra week of out-of-pocket to watch us play UT-Arlington?  

I think the real issue is nevermind the capacity, how is the overall design gonna meet the needs of C3's music wants?  Hopefully, we're at least done with the days of worrying about UIL, tractor pulls, and arena football.  

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Was that the one where the dude put the rock up with 8 seconds to go from beyond half-court because he thought it said :00 and not :08?

 

It was a midday weekend game.  Atmosphere was fun as hell as I recall...

the saturday matinee games are often better crowds than the Big Monday 8 pm games. IMO we should always schedule KU for a Saturday matinee. Those games have been epic.

 

And yeah, that UCONN game was insane, and while it's very very hard to rank the games i've been to in terms of best crowds, i'll day the best three were 2007 vs A&M, 2009 vs MSU, and 2016 vs OU. I know that tose games were especially amazing because i barely remember any details, just how insane the stadium was. 

That OU game Shaka's first year here was played without Ridley against an OU team featuring Buddy Hield (who is tearing it up in Sacramento btw) that would go on to play (and lose embarrassingly) in the Final 4. We went on something like a 19-2 run in the second half and it felt like the roof was going to come off the building. Roach and EDJ were great and Isaiah Taylor was a man possessed. I miss that kid's heart. 

Edited by Goo Punch
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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9841

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20 hours ago, Lobo said:

It sure as shit doesn't look like they go home from TV anyway.  

I don't know the numbers and I just want a cool stadium for hoops like the rest of you (as a longtime cranky season ticket holder).  And I'd like to think if we have a great place, the students will stick around.  But I went to school on the East Coast, when the holidays come---you either make the long trek home or you dig in the break.  For such a big school, it seems like the huge majority of our students just choose to head back to DFW or HOuston or South Texas...and that's fine.  Who is gonna stick around for an extra week of out-of-pocket to watch us play UT-Arlington?  

I think the real issue is nevermind the capacity, how is the overall design gonna meet the needs of C3's music wants?  Hopefully, we're at least done with the days of worrying about UIL, tractor pulls, and arena football.  

Speak for yourself. Who doesn’t like a good monster truck rally in an arena the size of a tennis court?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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^
Sarcastic point is a good one.  Think about this.  People like to drop the token fact that we are the largest U.S. city without a pro franchise in one of the big 5 leagues (obviously, that's gonna change in the next 3-4 years with Austin FC-MLS).  But here's another weird fact.  We're by far and away the largest U.S. city without a city venue of at least 10,000 seats.  

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4017

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On 12/27/2018 at 6:37 PM, Goo Punch said:

the saturday matinee games are often better crowds than the Big Monday 8 pm games. IMO we should always schedule KU for a Saturday matinee. Those games have been epic.

 

And yeah, that UCONN game was insane, and while it's very very hard to rank the games i've been to in terms of best crowds, i'll day the best three were 2007 vs A&M, 2009 vs MSU, and 2016 vs OU. I know that tose games were especially amazing because i barely remember any details, just how insane the stadium was. 

That OU game Shaka's first year here was played without Ridley against an OU team featuring Buddy Hield (who is tearing it up in Sacramento btw) that would go on to play (and lose embarrassingly) in the Final 4. We went on something like a 19-2 run in the second half and it felt like the roof was going to come off the building. Roach and EDJ were great and Isaiah Taylor was a man possessed. I miss that kid's heart. 

We had a great crowd for KSU in 2009 (?) when Denis Clemente went fucking apeshit and we lost in double OT...

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ztejas

ztejas 43464

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On 12/28/2018 at 3:08 PM, Lobo said:

^
Sarcastic point is a good one.  Think about this.  People like to drop the token fact that we are the largest U.S. city without a pro franchise in one of the big 5 leagues (obviously, that's gonna change in the next 3-4 years with Austin FC-MLS).  But here's another weird fact.  We're by far and away the largest U.S. city without a city venue of at least 10,000 seats.  

Do you mean indoors? Because COTA Amphitheatre lists 14k as the capacity. 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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On 12/27/2018 at 5:37 PM, Goo Punch said:

the saturday matinee games are often better crowds than the Big Monday 8 pm games. IMO we should always schedule KU for a Saturday matinee. Those games have been epic.

 

And yeah, that UCONN game was insane, and while it's very very hard to rank the games i've been to in terms of best crowds, i'll day the best three were 2007 vs A&M, 2009 vs MSU, and 2016 vs OU. I know that tose games were especially amazing because i barely remember any details, just how insane the stadium was. 

That OU game Shaka's first year here was played without Ridley against an OU team featuring Buddy Hield (who is tearing it up in Sacramento btw) that would go on to play (and lose embarrassingly) in the Final 4. We went on something like a 19-2 run in the second half and it felt like the roof was going to come off the building. Roach and EDJ were great and Isaiah Taylor was a man possessed. I miss that kid's heart. 

Have you ever been to AFH for a game?  I know you would appreciate the shit out of it if not.  I would highly recommend you pick the biggest game on the schedule next year and get your ass to lawrence.  The noncon is fine, the place just rocks.  I'd even recommend you buy seats by the student section.  The place truly is Mecca.

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ztejas

ztejas 43464

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28 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Have you ever been to AFH for a game?  I know you would appreciate the shit out of it if not.  I would highly recommend you pick the biggest game on the schedule next year and get your ass to lawrence.  The noncon is fine, the place just rocks.  I'd even recommend you buy seats by the student section.  The place truly is Mecca.

I've seen AFH from the outside but haven't seen a game there. I've been to a game at Cameron. 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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32 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

AFH is definitely on the bucket list. I've seen photos from the inside and it looks cozy as hell. I bet it's rocking in there. 

There isn’t a bad seat in the house. My first game I lost my voice before tip. The museum is unreal. If you can get there for a top 10 matchup (which there is nearly one a year it seems like) then you will have chills the entire time. Fuck if you need a buddy to go to a game hop over for beers and to get inside that barn. 

It cannot be understated how special that place feels. 

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Underdog

Underdog 28695

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Not for any games but have been to both AFH and CIS, both are cool to visit and their museum/HOF are fantastic as well.  Duke was having a Fantasy Camp going, so saw K out at Center court and Bilas teaching/coaching in their practice facility.  There was a camp going on at KU also but don’t recall seeing Self there.  Have also been able to see IBA in Stillwater, that’s a nice looking place. 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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58 minutes ago, Horn80 said:

Good grief.  I had no idea UT owed so much money.  WTF?

Debt has been extremely cheap for a long time. There's more utility in borrowing and paying minuscule interest for capital expenses than forking over the cash directly. 

It's like paying cash for a new car, or borrowing at 0.9%. 

Edited by SwanderedTalent
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Horn80

Horn80 6127

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25 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Debt has been extremely cheap for a long time. There's more utility in borrowing and paying minuscule interest for capital expenses than forking over the cash directly. 

It's like paying cash for a new car, or borrowing at 0.9%. 

Come again with $97 million in interest payments?

 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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If UT is really that worried about it or pressed on it they can just default.  Clearly they aren't worried about it, but UT could just pull a Tech and lean on the fact that it is a state school and the state cannot be sued.  Worked for Tech.

Schools, businesses, and public-private partnerships utilize debt all the time.  At the low rates it really is an advantage to extend the use of your dollars.  If it was going to be a troublesome amount the person underwriting the debt would have never given it to UT.  Debt deals tend to stand on their own merits, but they are often backed up by the financial strength of the entity as a whole.

Bottom line, if the people who wrote the notes weren't worried about it then UT, and its alumni, likely shouldn't be worried about it.  Unless of course they weren't honest in their financial evaluations on getting the debt in the first place.

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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City Council approved item authorizing City to negotiate work to re-align Red River. City pays for it but gets credit toward future financial deal with UT.

 

The work would change the alignment from 12th to 15th to reunite Red River at 15th St which was disconnected during the Med School construction. RR would then shift to the left after MLK and align with Robert Dedman Dr. So good news is that RR would be continuous again without a need to turn on 15th. Bad news is it (presumedly) would be a 2 lane road through campus.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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Duke like in size, but they'll sell all the lower tickets to corporate sponsors.  Students will probably be stuck behind the basket and in the corner like everywhere else.  Coming from a KU fan, Duke is the only school that does student seating the right way.  In a 9k-10k seat arena there isn't a bad seat in the house.  Since UT doesn't draw big dollars from basketball ticket sales they should absolutely put the students on the front rows of the sideline... if they can get enough students to fill 8-10 rows.

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

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3 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Students will probably be stuck behind the basket and in the corner like everywhere else.

CDC has said the students will be seated more prominently compared to before. Normally I would write this off as empty words but Del Conte has shown that he actually delivers on promises, more often than not.

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

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4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

owing 100s of millions can lend itself to pushing students to bad seats to let the corp money in.

 As soon as you have games where there are empty student seats, Bellmont will decide to sell them to corp interests.  Better to have an empty corp seat than a student seat will be the logic.

Most of the cost is shouldered by a private firm.

Also, I don't see much use in comparing old Bellmont to CDC-run Bellmont.

Edited by Machinator
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Pancho

Pancho 44836

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21 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

owing 100s of millions can lend itself to pushing students to bad seats to let the corp money in.

As soon as you have games where there are empty student seats, Bellmont will decide to sell them to corp interests.  Better to have an empty corp seat than a student seat will be the logic.

Nah, I think that was the Bellmont of Deloss/Patterson/Plonsky.

Pretty clear that isn't how CDC is runs the ship. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13515

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On 1/28/2019 at 4:41 PM, Machinator said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Most of the cost is shouldered by a private firm.

Also, I don't see much use in comparing old Bellmont to CDC-run Bellmont.

a private firm owes $288M over the next 25 years?  I thought the debt in the post above is owed by the UT athletic dept.

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ztejas

ztejas 43464

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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

a private firm owes $288M over the next 25 years?  I thought the debt in the post above is owed by the UT athletic dept.

It is, but that isn't a net figure. UT athletics generally operates in the black last I recall (thanks to football). 

Regardless, trying to squeeze out money from basketball tickets seems like a penny-pinching move. 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Most of the cost is shouldered by a private firm.

Also, I don't see much use in comparing old Bellmont to CDC-run Bellmont.

Is it a lease or is it a donation?  If it is a lease then UT is still bearing the cost of the deal, it just isn't capitalized on the books.  Unless they are saying UT is going to be a percentage of the tenant mix and they're underwriting other events into the tenant mix.  Then the developer wouldn't necessarily be looking to have UT pay it off via rent due over the course of the 25 year amortization.  But I don't know any developer that would build a single use property and not get all of their money out of it via lease term and rent payments.  That would be idiotic, unless they are writing some of the cost off as a donation.

Edited by Jhawk
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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The debt/amortization is important, but even Moreso is the interest reserve and credit structure.

also-again two dirty little secrets.  Students aren’t on campus for about 1/3rd of our home schedule.  80% of our undergrad live within a 4 hour drive from home.  That’s the case with just 20% of duke students so of course they’re at every game.  And second-a big knock on Erwin Center was that it was too far from student dwelling centers.  It’s a whopping 500 yards to the north but that’s gonna somehow magically change student attendance.  Okay

Edited by Lobo
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Once you're there, it's not.  But to act like west campus apartments which are literally doubling in density in the last decade...is somehow magically closer to the new arena site is insanity.  The thread has taken a turn to discuss how we get more students to the games.  The new location doesn't address that all that much despite your fascinating commentary,  

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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What was it like at FEC from 2000-2004?  Those were good years for UT without having a huge draw like KD.  Were the student sections filled?

One thing I've noticed going back to Allen Fieldhouse over the years is that it doesn't seem near as loud as it used to.  Then again, I'm not sitting in the student section anymore.

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