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Helicopter money thread

Rusty Shackelford

By Rusty Shackelford
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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20,876

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51 minutes ago, Rusty Shackelford said:

Starting to see even some Repubs advocating for temporary household helicopter money, I thought that was only for "socialists"?

Not sure you can possibly ever put that genie back in the bottle once it's out?

 

Looks like Romney went public with his desire to give every adult in the country $1,000.  Andrew Yang approves.

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Continental Op

Continental Op 3,934

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50 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why not at least try this kind of economic stimulus instead of just endlessly dumping money into Wall Street?

Good on Romney. Hell yes.

Well you see American Airlines was really nice to all of us during the bull market and didn't shrink seats/pitch between rows, charge exorbitant fares, and start charging us for things like the the ability to choose our own seats so it is important that we are nice to them on the way down.

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gmr548

gmr548 16,596

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Terrible, premature, etc., but I figure that $1,000/per will will get added into the current Bill because,...why the hell not?

It's premature to give out cash to Americans that would help pay rents/ mortgages, utility bills, etc. when it's obvious many will face difficulty doing so?

What's your plan?
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woohorn

woohorn 1,131

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It's premature to give out cash to Americans that would help pay rents/ mortgages, utility bills, etc. when it's obvious many will face difficulty doing so?

What's your plan?
We're a week in to something that is going to last months. Most haven't missed a paycheck. Some won't miss any pay. Who knows because it is premature to just borrow to give every american a random amount without regard for need.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46,062

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I don't think it's difficult to make an assessment that low wage employees are currently losing, say, $500/week and provide an initial bump to help ease the pain.  Hell, have a sliding scale that reduces the payment inversely proportional to last years reported income.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26,462

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24 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I fear the whole world will soon come to realize the insanity of our fiat monetary system like I do.

I was recently gifted a 1 Utah Goldback note ( https://goldback.com/ ).  How different the world would be if we had legal tender like that.

My friend, I too would like to be paid in gold. In my case, glittering handfuls of Sovereigns, 20 Francs, and those 1905 Mexican Pesos.

That said, entire strings of disasters unfolded under the gold standard. People can screw up anything. At least the money would be cooler.

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elfenix

elfenix 34,331

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2 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

My friend, I too would like to be paid in gold. In my case, glittering handfuls of Sovereigns, 20 Francs, and those 1905 Mexican Pesos.

That said, entire strings of disasters unfolded under the gold standard. People can screw up anything. At least the money would be cooler.

the 1800s saw panic after panic after panic.  and bernorange wants to go back to that.  because of some unspecified threat which may or may not happen at an unknown and unknowable time in the future. and in order to avoid that completely uncertain uncertainty,  he wants to tie up the world's supply of a metal that has a lot of industrial uses.  you like your cell phone and your computer?  well, suddenly all the gold used in those things has to compete with all the people buying it up to represent value and trade with each other and so forth, all the things normal people just use the full faith and credit of the US government for. 

in short, it's completely insane. 

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gmr548

gmr548 16,596

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We're a week in to something that is going to last months. Most haven't missed a paycheck. Some won't miss any pay. Who knows because it is premature to just borrow to give every american a random amount without regard for need.

So we should wait until rents, mortgages, utilities, etc. get missed? Until the inevitable layoffs?

And actually, now is the time to borrow. Sound government fiscal policy is to leverage deficit spending when the economy slows and shore things up when things get better.
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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26,462

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1 minute ago, elfenix said:

the 1800s saw panic after panic after panic.  and bernorange wants to go back to that.  because of some unspecified threat which may or may not happen at an unknown and unknowable time in the future. and in order to avoid that completely uncertain uncertainty,  he wants to tie up the world's supply of a metal that has a lot of industrial uses.  you like your cell phone and your computer?  well, suddenly all the gold used in those things has to compete with all the people buying it up to represent value and trade with each other and so forth, all the things normal people just use the full faith and credit of the US government for. 

in short, it's completely insane. 

What happened in lots of those panics was that, even then, loads of people were operating off chains of promises. Especially away from the coasts. Didn't matter if you had gold dollars and silver dollars, because nobody had any of either. To stay in business you had to take credit from RDCanecutter, who first had to get paid by elfenix, who was waiting on money from bernorange, who couldn't do a thing until Brisket paid up. And Brisket wasn't gonna pay shit.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26,462

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5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

the 1800s saw panic after panic after panic.  and bernorange wants to go back to that.  because of some unspecified threat which may or may not happen at an unknown and unknowable time in the future. and in order to avoid that completely uncertain uncertainty,  he wants to tie up the world's supply of a metal that has a lot of industrial uses.  you like your cell phone and your computer?  well, suddenly all the gold used in those things has to compete with all the people buying it up to represent value and trade with each other and so forth, all the things normal people just use the full faith and credit of the US government for. 

in short, it's completely insane. 

But too totally geek out while we're all waiting to start coughing, how would you feel about time-traveling to 1972 and talking Dick Nixon out of dropping Bretton-Woods? Would that be a horrible alternate reality?

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9,929

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Here’s the thing:  it’s not entirely without reason,  but we are busting our recession load like a freshman getting to third base. 
 

Let’s try expanded unemployment insurance, Temporary rent assistance, robust SNAP benefits before we just start throwing cash in the air in an environment where most people are not able to actually spend because they are quartined

Edited by Bateshorn
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elfenix

elfenix 34,331

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^^problem with all that stuff is that you have to wait in line somewhere to apply for it. 

 

 

 

edit: also, amazon says it is hiring 100,000 warehouse and delivery workers, so there will be stuff to buy. 

Edited by elfenix
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11,682

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1 hour ago, elfenix said:

^^problem with all that stuff is that you have to wait in line somewhere to apply for it. 

 

 

 

edit: also, amazon says it is hiring 100,000 warehouse and delivery workers, so there will be stuff to buy. 

Amazon is hiring another 100,000 to deliver Chinese knockoffs to your door while Americans are quarantined ...

 

it’s all starting to make sense.

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Rusty Shackelford

Rusty Shackelford 414

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Quote

Mnuchin, speaking at a White House press conference Tuesday, said the administration wants to provide “business interruption payments” to Americans, possibly delivering checks within the next two weeks.

“Americans need cash now and the president wants to give cash now,” Mnuchin said, adding that he expected to reveal details later in the day about possible payments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/mnuchin-discusses-850-billion-stimulus-and-checks-to-americans/2020/03/17/f682bb24-684d-11ea-b199-3a9799c54512_story.html

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9,939

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Posted

Helicopter Money:

Fed $1 trillion for purchase of commercial paper (to prop up stock market).

Socialism for the wealthy; austerity for the 99%.

Officials said Tuesday morning that they would create a vehicle to buy up to $1 trillion of 90-day commercial paper starting on March 17. In its statement, the Fed said it wouldn’t purchase commercial paper after Tuesday unless it is authorized by the Board of Governors at its March meeting, which starts today. 

Wall Street has been calling for this type of intervention for days, as volatility hit corporate bond markets and led to steep losses.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/the-federal-reserve-buys-short-term-corporate-debt-stocks-rise-51584462625

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9,939

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25 minutes ago, Rusty Shackelford said:

Trump is obviously a fan of the MMT, at least large parts of it.

Everyone other than a few Austrians and Gold Bugs is in favor of MMT - whether they admit it or not.

MMT is not ideological on the political spectrum.

When it comes to MMT - it is just a question of who gets the money. Since the late 1970's, the money has gone to the world's wealthy.

Any attempt to focus the MMT stream on the bottom 99% is demonized as Socialism and Communism. 

That's just the way the world works. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29,371

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52 minutes ago, LABEVO said:

 

It really is astounding. Pelosi and Schumer are so fucking ill equipped for this moment. They're getting clowned by obvious bath-faith negotiating tactics and are going to get steamrolled by some good ol fashioned national socialism. They need to step the fuck aside and let some Dems who haven't been brainwashed into believing decades of GOP austerity bullshit take the reins.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,944

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It really is astounding. Pelosi and Schumer are so fucking ill equipped for this moment. They're getting clowned by obvious bath-faith negotiating tactics and are going to get steamrolled by some good ol fashioned national socialism. They need to step the fuck aside and let some Dems who haven't been brainwashed into believing decades of GOP austerity bullshit take the reins.

Not a single bill has been signed into law yet.

Let's see what happens.

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Rusty Shackelford

Rusty Shackelford 414

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Everyone other than a few Austrians and Gold Bugs is in favor of MMT - whether they admit it or not.
MMT is not ideological on the political spectrum.
When it comes to MMT - it is just a question of who gets the money. Since the late 1970's, the money has gone to the world's wealthy.
Any attempt to focus the MMT stream on the bottom 99% is demonized as Socialism and Communism. 
That's just the way the world works. 

What if you take your helicopter money and buy physical gold every month?
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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9,939

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5 minutes ago, Rusty Shackelford said:


What if you take your helicopter money and buy physical gold every month? emoji2962.png

We are moving to a cashless society. The "gold" economy is extremely small.  The goldbugs know this. They are rightfully pissed off about it. But they have no power to change it.

Experiment - try to book an airline ticket with physical gold. I am sure some pilot would charter a ride for you in a private plane, but what premium would you need to pay in order to use gold. 

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elfenix

elfenix 34,331

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Posted

 

22 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Everyone other than a few Austrians and Gold Bugs is in favor of MMT - whether they admit it or not.

MMT is not ideological on the political spectrum.

When it comes to MMT - it is just a question of who gets the money. Since the late 1970's, the money has gone to the world's wealthy.

Any attempt to focus the MMT stream on the bottom 99% is demonized as Socialism and Communism. 

That's just the way the world works. 

well, the republicans have been, at least.  the democrats have saddled themselves with paygo.

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