Dr. Anthony Fauci Appreciation Thread

[hayden_horn 11362]

one of the best, most satisfying meals i've had was in an open air wet market in tsim sha tsui in hong kong. think of blue plastic kiddie pools with fish swimming around. multiple vendors just cooking on the street.  saw them kill, clean, and cook the fish whole in an amazing sauce. coworker and i sat there, and ate with relish. place seemed dodgy, but the food was delicious. i did not catch a global pandemic while there.

i really think some of yall have this opaque idea when you start slinging phrases around. hell, some of the local austin asian places will take a swimming fish and kill it and clean it right in front of you. is that a wet market?

[TwiceHorn 31450]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

And there we have it.  I think his 2012 quote citing his work being so important that the risk of a pandemic was worth the risk.  

And of course we can prove it.  It requires a forensic dive into all the collected research, data, and samples his teams have been funding since 2017 when they started funneling money to the lab.  Dozens of pages back the question was what did he know and when did he know it.  This forensic dive could easily prove this one way or another.  

We have published papers that the WIV ran this virus tens of thousands of times through human lung tissue in mice, trying to isolate certain receptor sites.  We have a strong understanding of what was being done, but we need to complete picture.  We need to know why Fauci and Daszak continually stonewalled and dismissed any notion of the lab leak theory, even going so far to engender a clear conflict of interest with Daszak who first investigated the lab and created the narrative the MSM ran with that a leak was all but impossible.  

I didn't say we couldn't prove it.  

I said that I don't believe that it has been proven.  I don't think "MSM" advocates either way, but they're not going to connect the dots in a way that a bunch of crazy-ass right-wing conspiracy sites are doing.  That alone makes me think its a load of crap.

[BabaYaga 15290]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Correct.  If Fauci went rogue behind the scenes, funding dangerous research at foreign labs that are difficult if not impossible to police, then of course we need to know this.

No shit.  That's been the whole point all along.  You yourself earlier in this very thread said Fauci was clean and had no way to know any of this.

Quote

What was or was not supported by science, scientists, or the public in March 2020 is utterly irrelevant in the sense that shifting theories happen all the time in science, and a shift need not be nefarious.

Bullshit.  We had dozens upon dozens of respected scientists stating clearly that the lab leak theory made infinitely more sense and needed to be thoroughly investigated.  The "investigation" was carried out by Daszak, close friend of confidant of Fauci and the team at the lab.  A clear and obvious conflict of interest.  They started the narrative that everyone ran with that the lab leak theory was all but impossible and any notion into it was crack-pot conspiracy.  It got so bad big tech was censoring people and publications that dared state this assertion.  

It's coming out not because it can no longer be contained.  

[BabaYaga 15290]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I didn't say we couldn't prove it.  

I said that I don't believe that it has been proven.  I don't think "MSM" advocates either way, but they're not going to connect the dots in a way that a bunch of crazy-ass right-wing conspiracy sites are doing.  That alone makes me think its a load of crap.

Big tech and the MSM has been actively censoring the lab leak theory.  Publications and people trying to push this narrative have been shut down.  Let's not play this game of revisionist history and say it didn't happen.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

Well I WAS pretty much convinced that the lab leak theory was correct but after reading the rantings of babayaga in this thread I think I’m gonna have to switch back to the wet market theory. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Big tech and the MSM has been actively censoring the lab leak theory.  Publications and people trying to push this narrative have been shut down.  Let's not play this game of revisionist history and say it didn't happen.  

Holy shit everyone’s in on it!!!!!

[capnamerca 571]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Holy shit everyone’s in on it!!!!!

Much like quoting the websites he does, using the phrase "Big Tech" is a dead giveaway that he's either a simpleton or an obvious troll. Either way, fuck him.

[BabaYaga 15290]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Holy shit everyone’s in on it!!!!!

Source & confirmation bias.  They ran with the story Daszak and his team pushed.  Hook, line, & sinker

[jimmyjazz 45899]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I can get a fascination with it.  Way back when, I read The Hot Zone and a bunch of "bioterror" thrillers.  It's interesting shit.  And, it's just the kind of thing where scientific egos, and bureaucracy, and incompetence can kind of come together with disastrous results.

This particular conspiracy theory harkens back to the "HIV doesn't cause AIDS" controversy ginned up by Dr. Peter Duesberg in the height of the AIDS epidemic.  He had all the bona fides, and many called him the "father of retrovirology".  His contention was that AIDS was essentially an immune deficiency caused (mostly) by drug use, particularly party drugs popular in gay culture.  He was very convincing.  He even conceived a way to dismiss the African AIDS epidemic as not actually being AIDS, but malnutrition and diseases like malaria.  (I'm going by recollection here, cut me some slack if I get things wrong.)

The long and the short of it was that he dismissed the approach of trying to medicate against HIV, as he saw HIV as harmless.  He even suggested that the early drug "cocktails" CAUSED symptoms of AIDS.  He was very convincing.  I would say that, in the long run, he was likely way off base, because science eventually did come up with reasonably safe drugs to combat HIV, and they have proved to be effective in stopping the progression to AIDS.

Trumpkins are looking for any and all reasons to say that Trump's nemeses were wrong, or worse yet, acting in bad faith on any and every front possible.  They are being spoon-fed bullshit by far right media and they lap it up, just as plenty of Duesberg fans lapped up his theories on a disconnect between HIV and AIDS.  It is easy to get caught up in a cult of personality.  Hell, I believe Duesberg for awhile, until contrary evidence just started becoming so obvious that it was impossible to see him as rational or on point.

[Dahobbs 17534]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

No shit.  That's been the whole point all along.  You yourself earlier in this very thread said Fauci was clean and had no way to know any of this.

Bullshit.  We had dozens upon dozens of respected scientists stating clearly that the lab leak theory made infinitely more sense and needed to be thoroughly investigated.  The "investigation" was carried out by Daszak, close friend of confidant of Fauci and the team at the lab.  A clear and obvious conflict of interest.  They started the narrative that everyone ran with that the lab leak theory was all but impossible and any notion into it was crack-pot conspiracy.  It got so bad big tech was censoring people and publications that dared state this assertion.  

It's coming out not because it can no longer be contained.  

So, when exactly did Fauci say that the lab leak theory was all but impossible? I recall him saying that the idea that it was created and released from a lab was very unlikely (e.g., https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-throws-cold-water-conspiracy-theory-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-2020-4). I never recall him saying it was impossible that it was otherwise accidentally released from a lab that was studying natural viruses. It seems to me that you and others have conflated lab creation with accidental release. And to be fair, I think many in the media conflated that a bit at the time.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

Freedom not Faucism!

My God these people are completely hopeless morons. 
 

https://www.local10.com/news/politics/2021/06/04/desantis-criticizes-fauci-after-e-mail-release-florida-chose-freedom-over-faucism/

Edited June 8, 2021 by JimmyJames

[jimmyjazz 45899]

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

No shit.  That's been the whole point all along.  You yourself earlier in this very thread said Fauci was clean and had no way to know any of this.

I don't believe I said this.  My view all along is that I *believe* he is clean in the sense that I have seen zero evidence he went rogue, but it's not like I have definitive proof.  Neither do you to the contrary.

If I stated otherwise, I'd like to see the quote.  Could be bad wordsmithing on my part.

[TXSG8R 3362]

19 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Interesting article today.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-91470-2

Here we document 47,381 individuals from 38 species, including 31 protected species sold between May 2017 and November 2019 in Wuhan’s markets. We note that no pangolins (or bats) were traded, supporting reformed opinion that pangolins were not likely the spillover host at the source of the current coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic.

Quote

The World Health Organization (WHO) sent an investigative team to Wuhan, from 14 January–10 February 2021, to try to retrospectively ascertain what wildlife was being sold in local wet markets in this region¹. Their findings were inconclusive, with markets having been closed down completely at that point for 4 months; however, they did recommend that pangolins should be included in the search for possible natural hosts or intermediate hosts of the novel coronaviruses¹.

Certainly points to bats or pangolins being absent, but it couldn't be conclusive due to the market shutdown.  They also seem to rely pretty heavily on the "we weren't working with the authorities so they didn't have any reason to hide stuff from us" idea pretty hard for their collected data prior to Covid.  

 

The biggest reason I think BY's position about Fauci funding GOF research and a lab leak is bullshit is because its the most convenient out in the world for China to use, and they haven't.  If this was true, China would have evidence of the funding, approvals, etc for this research and could conveniently shift the blame to the US for killing millions of people worldwide.  They could use the "rogue lab working with the west" excuse to continue poisoning the Chinese population against all things US.  They could use the "US is outsourcing dangerous research" to the UN and WHO and shift blame for the origin of the virus.  There is no downside to using this excuse if it exists.  

[UpperWestside 6162]

2 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Holy shit everyone’s in on it!!!!!

I am not going to make fun of Babayaga since  t is fairly clear this is someone that has been pulled directly into a conspiracy rabbit hole. While I think it would be great if we didn’t have people who were susceptible to being taken in by wild conspiracy theories I think this continued insistence from them on digging in and telling all of us that this is a multi-layered conspiracy shows you exactly why people like Trump succeed at what they do. They find marks and they feed them exactly what they want to hear to the point that it does not matter what factual information you counter with. They will have something new everyday from either an obscure source or one that is demonstrably false to the “non-believer” but is gospel to them.

Again I wish we didn’t have millions of our fellow citizens exhibiting the exact behavior we are seeing in this thread because it just exacerbates the amount of work to be done to eradicate the conspiratorial mindset that is hindering society as a whole right now.

Edited June 8, 2021 by UpperWestside

[GW Hayduke 1953]

20 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I am not going to make fun of Babayaga since  t is fairly clear this is someone that has been pulled directly into a conspiracy rabbit hole. While I think it would be great if we didn’t have people who were susceptible to being taken in by wild conspiracy theories I think this continued insistence from them on digging in and telling all of us that this is a multi-layered conspiracy shows you exactly why people like Trump succeed at what they do. They find marks and they feed them exactly what they want to hear to the point that it does not matter what factual information you counter with. They will have something new everyday from either an obscure source or one that is demonstrably false to the “non-believer” but is gospel to them.

Again I wish we didn’t have millions of our fellow citizens exhibiting the exact behavior we are seeing in this thread because it just exacerbates the amount of work to be done to eradicate the conspiratorial mindset that is hindering society as a whole right now.

 

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Source & confirmation bias.  They ran with the story Daszak and his team pushed.  Hook, line, & sinker

BabaYaga.  What's your story?  It seems possible you've been taken for a ride down the rabbit hole.  Do you care to open up and tell us about yourself?  

FYI: The times published a great podcast about how folks get into the rabbit hole of misinformation.  There was an good segment about a guy that was pushed into it by youtube's algorithms.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rabbit-hole/id1507423923

[dcar00 14181]

37 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I am not going to make fun of Babayaga since  t is fairly clear this is someone that has been pulled directly into a conspiracy rabbit hole. While I think it would be great if we didn’t have people who were susceptible to being taken in by wild conspiracy theories I think this continued insistence from them on digging in and telling all of us that this is a multi-layered conspiracy shows you exactly why people like Trump succeed at what they do. They find marks and they feed them exactly what they want to hear to the point that it does not matter what factual information you counter with. They will have something new everyday from either an obscure source or one that is demonstrably false to the “non-believer” but is gospel to them.

Again I wish we didn’t have millions of our fellow citizens exhibiting the exact behavior we are seeing in this thread because it just exacerbates the amount of work to be done to eradicate the conspiratorial mindset that is hindering society as a whole right now.

exactly like the marks that were fed the line that it is absolutely naturally occuring and couldn't be a lab leak.

[BabaYaga 15290]

5 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

 

BabaYaga.  What's your story?  It seems possible you've been taken for a ride down the rabbit hole.  Do you care to open up and tell us about yourself?  

FYI: The times published a great podcast about how folks get into the rabbit hole of misinformation.  There was an good segment about a guy that was pushed into it by youtube's algorithms.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rabbit-hole/id1507423923

So you think this is all made up?  Is that your stance? 

• The banning of the research in 2014? 
• His going behind the back of the WH to re-engage the same previously banned research in 2017? 
• The two cable leaks in 2018 stating empathically the lax safety protocols and concern of leaks and other dangers
• The WIV database going offline in 2019 when first reports surfaced?
• Fauci, and his good friend Daszak specifically going to investigate the lab, who are all friends with the technicians in the lab (an obvious conflict of interest for any actual investigation)?  That didn't happen?
• Daszak and his fellow scientists that conducted the interviews then publishing their "report" that a lab leak was not plausible and started pushing the natural spill over theory, despite there being no actual animals anywhere near the outbreak nor have their been a single on recovered since this started.
• This single paper then being sourced hundreds and hundreds of times as the "proof" that it was not nor could not have been a leak (we call that source bias, BTW)
• None of this happened?
• Fauci's and the NIH grant money to the tune of millions of dollars funneled to the lab?  So they sent millions, and yet had zero knowledge of the research being down there, despite some of having been actually published?  To be crystal clear, is that your stance - that nobody has the slightest clue what was going on there?
• Are you saying this is all misinformation?  None of it's true?  

[BabaYaga 15290]

10 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

exactly like the marks that were fed the line that it is absolutely naturally occuring and couldn't be a lab leak.

What used to be called a crack-pot conspiracy and posting it could get you flagged on social media for spreading false and misleading info......funny how times change....

[wildcat09 29349]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So you think this is all made up?  Is that your stance? 

• The banning of the research in 2014? 
• His going behind the back of the WH to re-engage the same previously banned research in 2017? 
• The two cable leaks in 2018 stating empathically the lax safety protocols and concern of leaks and other dangers
• The WIV database going offline in 2019 when first reports surfaced?
• Fauci, and his good friend Daszak specifically going to investigate the lab, who are all friends with the technicians in the lab (an obvious conflict of interest for any actual investigation)?  That didn't happen?
• Daszak and his fellow scientists that conducted the interviews then publishing their "report" that a lab leak was not plausible and started pushing the natural spill over theory, despite there being no actual animals anywhere near the outbreak nor have their been a single on recovered since this started.
• This single paper then being sourced hundreds and hundreds of times as the "proof" that it was not nor could not have been a leak (we call that source bias, BTW)
• None of this happened?
• Fauci's and the NIH grant money to the tune of millions of dollars funneled to the lab?  So they sent millions, and yet had zero knowledge of the research being down there, despite some of having been actually published?  To be crystal clear, is that your stance - that nobody has the slightest clue what was going on there?
• Are you saying this is all misinformation?  None of it's true?  

I could do a post just like this for a Bush did 9/11 conspiracy theory.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So you think this is all made up?  Is that your stance? 

• The banning of the research in 2014? 
• His going behind the back of the WH to re-engage the same previously banned research in 2017? 
• The two cable leaks in 2018 stating empathically the lax safety protocols and concern of leaks and other dangers
• The WIV database going offline in 2019 when first reports surfaced?
• Fauci, and his good friend Daszak specifically going to investigate the lab, who are all friends with the technicians in the lab (an obvious conflict of interest for any actual investigation)?  That didn't happen?
• Daszak and his fellow scientists that conducted the interviews then publishing their "report" that a lab leak was not plausible and started pushing the natural spill over theory, despite there being no actual animals anywhere near the outbreak nor have their been a single on recovered since this started.
• This single paper then being sourced hundreds and hundreds of times as the "proof" that it was not nor could not have been a leak (we call that source bias, BTW)
• None of this happened?
• Fauci's and the NIH grant money to the tune of millions of dollars funneled to the lab?  So they sent millions, and yet had zero knowledge of the research being down there, despite some of having been actually published?  To be crystal clear, is that your stance - that nobody has the slightest clue what was going on there?
• Are you saying this is all misinformation?  None of it's true?  

I’m more interested in your background.  How would you describe your underlying education and experience in dealing with information?  Where do you get most of your current information?  I see you’ve shared some daily caller and another conspiracy site.  You may have been the person that linked a video of Tucker Carlson.  Do you get a lot of information from youtube? Twitter? Facebook?

[workswithseed 2102]

Why does it matter? This isn't a census.

[BabaYaga 15290]

26 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I could do a post just like this for a Bush did 9/11 conspiracy theory.

Then do it, or address the individual items stated.  None of them are in dispute.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

12 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Why does it matter? This isn't a census.

We’re the CR and we’re here to help. 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

We’re the CR and we’re here to help. 

They’re the trolls and they’re here to obfuscate and derail. 

[wildcat09 29349]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then do it, or address the individual items stated.  None of them are in dispute.  

I'm not 16 anymore, so I'm smart enough not to argue conspiracy theories with deranged conspiracy theorists online.

[BabaYaga 15290]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm not 16 anymore, so I'm smart enough not to argue conspiracy theories with deranged conspiracy theorists online.

So the lab leak is a back to being a conspiracy theory again?

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

exactly like the marks that were fed the line that it is absolutely naturally occuring and couldn't be a lab leak.

Naturally occurring and lab leak aren't mutually exclusive. 

[BabaYaga 15290]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Naturally occurring and lab leak aren't mutually exclusive. 

Nobody is saying the original virus wasn't naturally occurring.  The concern are the tens of thousands of iterations via human lung tissue in mice to attach it to certain receptors.  

We know, for example, in 2012 the six men shoveling bat guano in a mineshaft in Mojiang County, in Yunnan Province got "pneumonia".  Three died.  

We know that in 2013 - a 60-page master's thesis written by a student at Kunming Medical University titled "The Analysis of 6 Patients with Severe Pneumonia Caused by Unknown Viruses." It described the conditions and step-by-step treatment of the miners. It named the suspected culprit: "Caused by SARS-like [coronavirus] from the Chinese horseshoe bat or other bats." The virus they contracted was named RaTG13.

We also know that from 2017-2018 - scientists at the Wuhan lab had been actively studying the RaTG13 virus in 2017 and 2018, despite a claim by Peter Dazsak in early 2020 that they had stuck it in a freezer and forgotten about it. The WIV had been intensely interested in RaTG13 and everything else that had come from the Mojiang mineshaft. WIV made at least seven different trips to the mine, over many years, collecting thousands of samples. They found and collected a total of 9 viruses directly related to SARS-Cov-2.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

[lmao 178]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

I could do a post just like this for a Bush did 9/11 conspiracy theory.

Did the things in that post happen? 

[Dahobbs 17534]

38 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Nobody is saying the original virus wasn't naturally occurring. 

?????? Below is the post I responded to:

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

exactly like the marks that were fed the line that it is absolutely naturally occuring and couldn't be a lab leak.

As to the rest of your post:

Quote

 

The concern are the tens of thousands of iterations via human lung tissue in mice to attach it to certain receptors.  

We know, for example, in 2012 the six men shoveling bat guano in a mineshaft in Mojiang County, in Yunnan Province got "pneumonia".  Three died.  

We know that in 2013 - a 60-page master's thesis written by a student at Kunming Medical University titled "The Analysis of 6 Patients with Severe Pneumonia Caused by Unknown Viruses." It described the conditions and step-by-step treatment of the miners. It named the suspected culprit: "Caused by SARS-like [coronavirus] from the Chinese horseshoe bat or other bats." The virus they contracted was named RaTG13.

We also know that from 2017-2018 - scientists at the Wuhan lab had been actively studying the RaTG13 virus in 2017 and 2018, despite a claim by Peter Dazsak in early 2020 that they had stuck it in a freezer and forgotten about it. The WIV had been intensely interested in RaTG13 and everything else that had come from the Mojiang mineshaft. WIV made at least seven different trips to the mine, over many years, collecting thousands of samples. They found and collected a total of 9 viruses directly related to SARS-Cov-2.

 

Ok? I mean, some of this stuff is conjecture and not really fact at all. But, even if it is all fact, you're still describing an accidental lab release of a naturally occurring, non-engineered virus. A lab release is totally reasonable hypothesis, and one the government has been investigating. I haven't seen anything from Fauci where he rejected the idea of an accidental lab release. His statements have been a rejection of the idea of a manipulated virus that was released from a laboratory. We need to stop conflating these things.  

 

[wildcat09 29349]

16 minutes ago, lmao said:

Did the things in that post happen? 

Don't know, don't care.

In the first generation of real widespread internet conspiracy theories I wasted dozens if not hundreds of hours delving into the facts and arguing with 9/11 conspiracy theorists and every single second was absolutely wasted. They could all be true and he could be drawing illogical conclusions. Some of his points could be sorta accurate but he might misunderstand their import. Might is underselling it for that actually, as he clearly has no idea what he's talking about and he's also almost certainly leaving a ton of shit out.

None of it actually matters because it's very clear that his theories about Fauci and the places he's getting them are batshit crazy and that's obvious without wasting hundreds of hours investigating his nonsense, just as it was obvious to anyone who wasn't insane that the 9/11 conspiracy theories were nonsense. It's not about the facts, it's about what he wants to believe.

[lmao 178]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Don't know, don't care.

 It's not about the facts, it's about what he wants to believe.

I mean shouldn't you be a little curious on why those things happened if we want to get to the bottom of this? Him coming to the wrong conclusion doesn't negate that those things happened. 

[BabaYaga 15290]

45 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

you're still describing an accidental lab release of a naturally occurring, non-engineered virus.

We know that to not be the case - we have papers clearly outlining how the virus and it's variants were run through tens of thousands of iterations with human lung tissue.  This was the quibbling from Fauci originally that in is opinion this does not qualify as GOF, even though the purpose of GOF is to advance the pathogen, especially transmission.  This is exactly what they did studying the ACE2 receptors.  Textbook definition.

50 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

A lab release is totally reasonable hypothesis,

It is NOW.  For the better part of the last year it was crack-pot conspiracy and good enough to get you shut down on many social media sites as spreading "disinformation".  Of course, to verify if there was a leak, he sent in his crony friend Daszak to "verify", who later thanked him privately for "dismissing" the lab leak hypothesis and embracing the report his team posted as validating that it did not come from the lab (that they of course had been funding....big coincidence, I'm sure).  The sole report that was utilized as source material for hundreds if not thousands of publications and articles as the "verified science" behind what happened.

[Dahobbs 17534]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We know that to not be the case - we have papers clearly outlining how the virus and it's variants were run through tens of thousands of iterations with human lung tissue.  This was the quibbling from Fauci originally that in is opinion this does not qualify as GOF, even though the purpose of GOF is to advance the pathogen, especially transmission.  This is exactly what they did studying the ACE2 receptors.  Textbook definition.

I'm pretty sure this is a complete mischaracterization of what has occurred and what Fauci has said.

Quote

It is NOW.  For the better part of the last year it was crack-pot conspiracy and good enough to get you shut down on many social media sites as spreading "disinformation".  Of course, to verify if there was a leak, he sent in his crony friend Daszak to "verify", who later thanked him privately for "dismissing" the lab leak hypothesis and embracing the report his team posted as validating that it did not come from the lab (that they of course had been funding....big coincidence, I'm sure).  The sole report that was utilized as source material for hundreds if not thousands of publications and articles as the "verified science" behind what happened.

The crack pot conspiracy theory was always the "engineered in a lab" part. The less likely, but plausible theory was the lab release by itself. You have to stop conflating those things. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. I've already addressed how Fauci was rejecting the latter idea, not the former.  

[jimmyjazz 45899]

Forget it.  BabaYaga has the same capacity for critical thought as my chihuahua.  (Sorry, Pluto.)

[TwiceHorn 31450]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

So you think this is all made up?  Is that your stance? 

• The banning of the research in 2014? 
• His going behind the back of the WH to re-engage the same previously banned research in 2017? 
• The two cable leaks in 2018 stating empathically the lax safety protocols and concern of leaks and other dangers
• The WIV database going offline in 2019 when first reports surfaced?
• Fauci, and his good friend Daszak specifically going to investigate the lab, who are all friends with the technicians in the lab (an obvious conflict of interest for any actual investigation)?  That didn't happen?
• Daszak and his fellow scientists that conducted the interviews then publishing their "report" that a lab leak was not plausible and started pushing the natural spill over theory, despite there being no actual animals anywhere near the outbreak nor have their been a single on recovered since this started.
• This single paper then being sourced hundreds and hundreds of times as the "proof" that it was not nor could not have been a leak (we call that source bias, BTW)
• None of this happened?
• Fauci's and the NIH grant money to the tune of millions of dollars funneled to the lab?  So they sent millions, and yet had zero knowledge of the research being down there, despite some of having been actually published?  To be crystal clear, is that your stance - that nobody has the slightest clue what was going on there?
• Are you saying this is all misinformation?  None of it's true?  

Some of these aren't actually facts.  They're more opinion or speculation couched as facts.

A few of them are unvarnished facts, but they are independent and not readily correlate.

I'm not going to counter them one-by-one.  But the first item is a fact.

The second is not a fact and can't be verified.  The ban on GoF research was lifted in 2017, to be reinstated only within the last month by act of Congress.  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(18)30006-9/fulltext  There are no credible sources that indicate that such research was funded during the ban, and no source that does anything but baldly and conclusorily so state.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Sawbonz 27547]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

30 March 2020 Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.

While I agree it’s most likely a natural jump it’s is a weird fucking caveat to add to a paper that basically says hey we can graft bat covid genome onto a human covid backbone and make the interspecies jump and it’s really fucking easy 

Nvm about the mouse model. There was a separate in vitro study showing human lung tissue cultures infected w the novel virus in addition to the mouse model

Edited June 9, 2021 by Sawbonz

[TwiceHorn 31450]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

While I agree it’s most likely a natural jump it’s is a weird fucking caveat to add to a paper that basically says hey we can graft bat covid genome onto a human covid backbone and make the interspecies jump and it’s really fucking easy (although it’s a mouse model the mice express human ACE receptors)

Well, it's a perfect example of what's going on here.  It's a paper that says it CAN happen.  It was being used to prove or support the notion that it DID happen. It supports the notion that it COULD, but not that it DID.

Also, I suspect it was drawing a lot of layperson attention, so they put a layperson warning on it.  I imagine Nature keeps track of citations of its articles and noticed a trend of it being cited by, shall we say, less than knowledgeable people in articles that were making unscientific leaps.

[Sawbonz 27547]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, it's a perfect example of what's going on here.  It's a paper that says it CAN happen.  It was being used to prove or support the notion that it DID happen. It supports the notion that it COULD, but not that it DID.

Also, I suspect it was drawing a lot of layperson attention, so they put a layperson warning on it.  I imagine Nature keeps track of citations of its articles and noticed a trend of it being cited by, shall we say, less than knowledgeable people in articles that were making unscientific leaps.

I mean it’s a paper where they actually did it

[TwiceHorn 31450]

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I mean it’s a paper where they actually did it

I get that.  But they didn't do it in Wuhan with this particular virus in 2019.  Or transmit it to humans, precisely.

So yeah, it supports the idea that it could happen and happen fairly easily, but it doesn't provide any evidence that that is what happened in this particular instance.

It's the red meat of conspiracy theories.  It could have happened, therefore that's what happened.

[Sawbonz 27547]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Or transmit it to humans, precisely.

The chimera they made is infectious to humans. 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

So the lab leak is a back to being a conspiracy theory again?

Sorry buddy.  As someone who knows a lot more than you about all of this, including how shitty China is when it comes to research/stolen research...you sound batshit crazy.  And you insisting you're not - over and over - makes it worse.  It's zero surprise, as the GQP is VERY antiscience these days.  Very sad because they used to be the more educated party - my how times have changed.  And save me the LIBRULLLL education shit.  Dumb, uneducated people make up the base of today's R party.  There's zero disputing that. 

[SizzleChest 8283]

On 6/7/2021 at 1:20 PM, Dr. Teeth said:

I have a weird feeling that Gottlieb is going to pull a Ronnie Jackson and turn into some right wing nut in the next year.

Knowing people that know him personally, I think that's pretty unlikely.

[SizzleChest 8283]

I keep thinking BabyYaga is going to shout himself into a deep coma, but I dunno, seems like he's got some retarded dog energy working for him.

[jimmyjazz 45899]

Just now, SizzleChest said:

I keep thinking BabyYaga is going to shout himself into a deep coma, but I dunno, seems like he's got some retarded dog energy working for him.

As someone who cohabitates with a retarded chihuahua, I take offense to that assertion.

[SizzleChest 8283]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

As someone who cohabitates with a retarded chihuahua, I take offense to that assertion.

Does he have his own room?  Does he pay for half the household bills?

[TwiceHorn 31450]

13 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Knowing people that know him personally, I think that's pretty unlikely.

I was fairly impressed with Gottlieb's tenure at FDA.  One of the few good Trump appointments.  Or rather than "good," maybe I should say not a raving loonbag.

The Commissioner of Patents, Andrei Iancu, was affirmatively good.

Edited June 9, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[lmao 178]

Fwiw Kristian Anderson deleted his Twitter account after removing all of his old tweets. He was in the email chain with Fauci concerned the virus could have been engineered although his opinion was different on the platform. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

7 hours ago, lmao said:

Fwiw Kristian Anderson deleted his Twitter account after removing all of his old tweets. He was in the email chain with Fauci concerned the virus could have been engineered although his opinion was different on the platform. 

Oh, the guy that said his opinion could change after further research, did further research, and then published a paper last March describing his analysis and concluding the virus wasn't engineered? 

Gee, do you think deleting the twitter account could have anything to do with the whackadoos posting a bunch a shit to him? 

I mean, fuck, it's not like there are no more samples of the virus. Anyone could repeat his research and double check the results. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Dahobbs