Dr. Anthony Fauci Appreciation Thread

[Biff Tannen 46192]

2 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Why do you insist on mischaracterizing what Obama did and why omit that the pause on GOF was lifted during the Trump administration?  

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13634]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, and another good bit of it is probably hipster irony.

Which is something, I guess.  Cultural appropriation?

Marone!

I bought an Iggy Pop one for my friend a couple of years ago cuz I'm super cool.

[F250 29204]

My personal favorite.

 

[TheStoicPaisano 9953]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect some of that "Fauci worship" is from/driven by Italian-Americans.  As referenced in the Sopranos, some of them can get pretty wild-eyed about how people of Italian descent perform and/or are portrayed in the media.  See also Columbus Day.

🤌🏽

[Hookah Horns 3089]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

He considers it GOF research because we have the paper and trials showing they ran thousands upon thousands of iterations of the virus and how it binds to the ACE2 receptors in human lung tissue in mice.  Thousands of "generations" of the virus were engendered.  This is why the Director of the CDC immediately made the statement that the attributes of the virus were were not aligned with the zoonic theory posited by Daszak and others.

Fauci is trying to tap dance on the pinhead and use the Clinton defense of what "it" really means.  These trials were designed to make the virus more transmissible so they can make predictive and prescriptive steps for future outbreaks.  How is this NOT gain of function?

From what, exactly, do you conclude that the trial was "designed to make the virus more transmissible?" I'm not seeing anything of the sort in the study. 

[Anastasis 23724]

Replace "transmissible" with "infective" imo. 

[bolverk 30362]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

This one seems popular.

I do hope you see the product description includes the phrase "parody art" and are, therefore, also in on the joke.

If not, that would be truly embarrassing.

[bolverk 30362]

doop

Edited July 20, 2021 by bolverk

[Celery Man 21100]

9 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Jesus tap dancing Christ - do you not think early on, as the emails clearly indicated, that dozens of scientist who emphatically claimed that the virus was clearly modified should have been entertained?  Entertained and pressed on multiple fronts NIAH, Fauci, the Wuhan lab, and lastly China on this very credible theory early on in the pandemic could have mobilized much more robust national responses?  

Instead, this entire line of thought was covered up and dismissed as conspiracy theory as it directly implicated the GOF research Fauci and others directly funded

He orchestrated the move to Wuhan.  He funded in part the research.  He sent his cronies in to cover up any leak talk and you want to say with a straight face he knew nothing of what was being done in the lab?

This didn’t address at all twice’s accurate comment, which you quoted here, that at that phase in a pandemic litigating the source is useful only as it pertains to combating the spread

[InkaUtexas 26933]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

My personal favorite.

 

Mine was Pancho Villa. Got it at the Fiesta on 35. Miss that candle. Now it is just la Santa de la muerte. 

[jimmyjazz 47263]

9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

This didn’t address at all twice’s accurate comment, which you quoted here, that at that phase in a pandemic litigating the source is useful only as it pertains to combating the spread

@BabaYaga is not interested in the truth.  He is interested in arguing.

[workswithseed 2204]

40 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I do hope you see the product description includes the phrase "parody art" and are, therefore, also in on the joke.

If not, that would be truly embarrassing.

I saw it.

[tigol 2487]

He didn't shut it down in 2014, he paused it while risks the risks that you mentioned but also the benefits of GOF research were assessed.  That was in October, 2014.  At that time, the Obama administration said that it was issuing a moratorium on the funding of NEW "gain of function" projects.   

That moratorium lasted three years and was lifted in December, 2017.   https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/12/feds-lift-gain-function-research-pause-offer-guidance

Why do you insist on mischaracterizing what Obama did and why omit that the pause on GOF was lifted during the Trump administration?  








 

Not to mention Trump dismantling the pandemic response plans.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-team-left-pandemic-playbook-for-trump-administration-officials-confirm

So, did Trump release the China virus to start a pandemic and frame China? I don’t believe this is in dispute and that is where the trail leads.

[atomheartbevo 90665]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect some of that "Fauci worship" is from/driven by Italian-Americans.  As referenced in the Sopranos, some of them can get pretty wild-eyed about how people of Italian descent perform and/or are portrayed in the media.  See also Columbus Day.

Are we just going to ignore the fact that he considers Italians to be "people"?

[Brisketexan 106981]

There are people on all parts of the political spectrum that have replaced religion with their political ideology.  

Don’t wanna rep this, but I have to. This is a deep cultural affliction. As our institutions have dwindled, we crave belonging and worship. It leads to really stupid - and destructive - shit.

[babysdaddy 2731]

[Anastasis 23724]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Don’t wanna rep this, but I have to. This is a deep cultural affliction. As our institutions have dwindled, we crave belonging and worship. It leads to really stupid - and destructive - shit.

Why would you have reservations. It’s truth. 

[Captainant 28589]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

I saw it.

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12807]

6 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Paused, froze, shut it down temporarily - either way it was suspended due to the dangers of the types of research being done.  

 

 

Clearly, that's wrong. I just read the Obama administration's October 2014 order and the article from when the moratorium was lifted under the Trump administration. They didn't shut it down due to the dangers, they simply stopped the funding for new research while they reassessed, did that reassessment, and decided at the end of the day "gain of function"  research was beneficial.  Also, funding for ONGOING research was not included in Obama's moratorium.  So Obama's order didn't stop anything other than the funding of NEW GOF research.

This point seems to have eluded both you and Dr. Paul.  



 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Hornius Emeritus

[workswithseed 2204]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

 

[Anastasis 23724]

25 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Clearly, that's wrong. I just read the Obama administration's October 2014 order and the article from when the moratorium was lifted under the Trump administration. They didn't shut it down due to the dangers, they simply stopped the funding for new research while they reassessed, did that reassessment, and decided at the end of the day "gain of function"  research was beneficial.  Also, funding for ONGOING research was not included in Obama's moratorium.  So Obama's order didn't stop anything other than the funding of NEW GOF research.

This point seems to have eluded both you and Dr. Paul.  

I think that this post glosses over a pretty substantive and ongoing debate in the scientific community by only referencing a bureaucratic order and a lay article.  

[BrickHorn 18447]

nm

Edited July 21, 2021 by BrickHorn

[Doc Sam Beckett 5908]

12 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 

 

 

 

None of this is in dispute, just take my word for it.

 

It's been documented:

Babayaga et al., 2021

[Mole 4344]

The truth always lies in the middle of two points, no matter how nonsensical. Fauci isn’t responsible for all 4,000,000+ COVID deaths. He’s just responsible for ~2,000,000 deaths and half of the economic problems. This has been established.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5171]

My first time on this thread. Should I expect to get castigated for having one of those candles but with Willie Nelson instead of Fauci?

[Anastasis 23724]

8 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

My first time on this thread. Should I expect to get castigated for having one of those candles but with Willie Nelson instead of Fauci?

 

Quite the opposite. I'd rather listen to Willie with his vocal cords giving out over Fauci vs. Rand screeching. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Anastasis

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

i have a votive candle of Coach O…

Edited July 21, 2021 by Kyrie Eleison

[Hornius Emeritus 12807]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I think that this post glosses over a pretty substantive and ongoing debate in the scientific community by only referencing a bureaucratic order and a lay article.  

I was specifically responding to the comments made by Baba and HUABS' response.  Baba has said several times that Obama ended GOF research because it was so onerous. That is not what happened, as HUABS pointed out and, in fact, after a cost/benefit analysis, GOF research was reinstated by the Trump administration. 

Carry on.  

[Anastasis 23724]

 

5 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

That is not what happened, as HUABS pointed out and, in fact, after a cost/benefit analysis, GOF research was reinstated by the Trump administration. 

I am not sure the memos really capture the inside baseball around it, and I think that the Trump administration was asleep at the wheel in terms of the what the NIH was reauthorizing. This is actually a Trump Admin fuck up imo. 

[BabaYaga 15631]

9 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

I am not sure the memos really capture the inside baseball around it, and I think that the Trump administration was asleep at the wheel in terms of the what the NIH was reauthorizing. This is actually a Trump Admin fuck up imo. 

It was done under the nose of the Trump administration and they bypassed the existing security and oversight protocols in place (as referenced earlier).  The NIH reauthorized themselves, which again is the point.  The "Trump Administration" didn't reauthorize anything, as they were unaware of what was happening.    

Obama paused their funding, then punted as he could have reinstated before his time in office ended in 2016, but did not.  

[BabaYaga 15631]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that this post glosses over a pretty substantive and ongoing debate in the scientific community by only referencing a bureaucratic order and a lay article.  

An ongoing debate NOW (sort of).  Early on, there was no debate - only castigation and silencing.  This creeping revisionist history is telling.  Early on, ANY notion of a lab leak was enough to get you ridiculed, have your funding pulled or threatened, have your statements banned on most social media sites, and have you labeled as a conspiracy loon.

Again, when the then Director of the CDC came out with his assertion that there is no way this came from nature, he received death threats, some from fellow scientists (cited earlier in the thread).  

Further, this is not an indictment of GOF as a whole.  This is an indictment of a particular lab being funded offshore under the nose of the new administration, with research that had no oversight, in a location with no prior experience with a level 4 biolab.  Who we now know via the emails reached out for help, citing safety concerns.  Or the 2018 cables that also cited lax safety concerns and protocols for such dangerous research.  Then, when there was an outbreak, sending in your buddy and crony (Daszak) to perform a sham investigation over a whopping 2-3hours and then cite emphatically there is NO WAY this came from a lab when we now know former scientists at the lab died from COVID and even admitted that is what they were working on?

Again, to quote the great Jon Stewart on this:   "Science has, in many ways, helped ease the suffering of this pandemic … which was more than likely caused by science"

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

19 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I contend had the lab, the researchers, and the funding mechanism of the Eco Health alliance and the NIH been initially forthcoming that this is an EXTREMELY transmissible virus far advanced of what we see in nature, the global response would have been much more robust and the international pressure on China to be forthcoming with samples, data, and research much more effective.  You can directly correlate those tens early deaths in NY to not understanding how this virus operates.  Had we known, it seems obvious other steps would have been taken and lives saved.  

 

Quite the shift from the “Virus Gonna Virus” days.

[BabaYaga 15631]

14 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Quite the shift from the “Virus Gonna Virus” days.

You'd think if people knew this was not just some run of the mill bug, but rather something studied and enhanced through iterative studies that had already caused fatalities in two of the lab staff....that people might take it a little more seriously.  Just spit-balling here......

Do we have "proof" it came from nature?  Of course not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence either?  No.  

Do we have "proof" it came from a lab.  We do not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence?  Mountains.  Seems this is a thread worth pulling on.  Hard.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

35 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You'd think if people knew this was not just some run of the mill bug, but rather something studied and enhanced through iterative studies that had already caused fatalities in two of the lab staff....that people might take it a little more seriously.  Just spit-balling here......

Do we have "proof" it came from nature?  Of course not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence either?  No.  

Do we have "proof" it came from a lab.  We do not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence?  Mountains.  Seems this is a thread worth pulling on.  Hard.  

your new-found desire for the truth is noted.

[Biff Tannen 46192]

What a weird hill to die on. 

[wildcat09 29597]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

You'd think if people knew this was not just some run of the mill bug, but rather something studied and enhanced through iterative studies that had already caused fatalities in two of the lab staff....that people might take it a little more seriously.  Just spit-balling here......

Do we have "proof" it came from nature?  Of course not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence either?  No.  

Do we have "proof" it came from a lab.  We do not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence?  Mountains.  Seems this is a thread worth pulling on.  Hard.  

This is just a blatant lie.

[jimmyjazz 47263]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

It was done under the nose of the Trump administration and they bypassed the existing security and oversight protocols in place (as referenced earlier).  

Not if it wasn't GoF research.

[Gatorubet 30767]

This is just a blatant lie.

You are using actual facts as a cudgel. Very mean spirited.

[aggie08 21841]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

An ongoing debate NOW (sort of).  Early on, there was no debate - only castigation and silencing.  This creeping revisionist history is telling.  Early on, ANY notion of a lab leak was enough to get you ridiculed, have your funding pulled or threatened, have your statements banned on most social media sites, and have you labeled as a conspiracy loon.

Again, when the then Director of the CDC came out with his assertion that there is no way this came from nature, he received death threats, some from fellow scientists (cited earlier in the thread).  

I would love to see some citations on these claims. Not saying that you're wrong--you've clearly followed this more closely than I have--but I remember the lab leak theory being discussed openly on this board and in the media. Sure, it wasn't the prevailing theory and the bat theory was the "accepted" narrative, but plenty of people asked questions about a coincidentally placed lab a block from the epicenter without being labeled loons. The pushback came when people started crossing into nefarious intent territory (either an intentional release or the accidental release of a virus that was purpose-made). I would guess most of those who were banned crossed the line into "China intentionally created a weapon" land.  This was before the Fauci angle came into play, so plenty of people were looking to blame China (which they obviously deserve, but not as a biological weapon manufacturer).

I couldn't find the citation for scientists giving each other death threats. Refresh my memory.

[aggie08 21841]

I guess my overall point is that, at several points over the past 18 months, I thought that it was logical and plausible that the lab leak theory had merit based on what I heard from scientists and the media. I certainly never treated the bat theory as gospel. And I'm guessing that the news sources that I frequent don't in any way, shape, or form resemble the ones that you put stock into.

So, maybe, just maybe, you guys are slightly overstating the massive, coordinated cover-up and silencing of non-conforming opinions...again?

[Michael Knight 13239]

 

[dcar00 14992]

This is pretty simple. Fauci is in major cya mode. He's lying and doing the bill Clinton trademarked "is is".  MSM/biden will cover for him though, so none of this is gonna matter.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

17 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

This is pretty simple. Fauci is in major cya mode. He's lying and doing the bill Clinton trademarked "is is".  MSM/biden will cover for him though, so none of this is gonna matter.

lol, is that what's going on? geez, maybe I should start paying attention. you so smart!

[William Wallace 106]

I don't know how this guy has credibility after he told people not to wear masks, knowing people should have masks, so Health Care workers would have masks.  It would have stopped the spread, and trust the public.(lol, but contact companies first and make them send shit to the govt)

Edited July 21, 2021 by William Wallace

[Celery Man 21100]

Was that the one window where you idiots were willing to listen to guidance about masks?

[jimmyjazz 47263]

2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Was that the one window where you idiots were willing to listen to guidance about masks?

Yes.

[Dahobbs 18349]

8 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

You'd think if people knew this was not just some run of the mill bug, but rather something studied and enhanced through iterative studies that had already caused fatalities in two of the lab staff....that people might take it a little more seriously.  Just spit-balling here......

Do we have "proof" it came from nature?  Of course not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence either?  No.  

Do we have "proof" it came from a lab.  We do not.  Do we have any correlating or circumstantial evidence?  Mountains.  Seems this is a thread worth pulling on.  Hard.  

You keep conflating these two things. We have some evidence that suggests it possibly was released by a lab. But we don't have mountains. We have at least as much evidence suggesting it was a natural event. However, the claim that not only was it released by a lab but it in fact was the product of enhancement lacks any significant factual support. As Dr. Fauci (and others) said, the viruses studied by the lab could not have resulted in the SARS-CoV-2. The differences are too great. I know you jump up and down about that 96% match, but 4% is a very wide gulf. It is similar to the difference between humans and the great apes. 

https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics (~7% different)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tiny-genetic-differences-between-humans-and-other-primates-pervade-the-genome/ (1-2%)

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128 (1-2%)

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/chimps-humans-96-percent-the-same-gene-study-finds (4%)

 

[Anastasis 23724]

45 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

We have some evidence that suggests it possibly was released by a lab. But we don't have mountains. We have at least as much evidence suggesting it was a natural event. However, the claim that not only was it released by a lab but it in fact was the product of enhancement lacks any significant factual support.

I agree generally with this.  I am still in camp of natural origin highly likely and fits the data. Lab consolidation of samples from Yunnan and accidental lab leak possible if not probable as it fits most of the data points. 

45 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

As Dr. Fauci (and others) said, the viruses studied by the lab could not have resulted in the SARS-CoV-2. The differences are too great.

I don't agree with this though.  We don't have a comprehensive accounting of the viral specimens studied in the lab.  In fact the Chinese appear to have suppressed our ability to really understand the range of specimens collected from Yunnan and what was being done with them.  This just speaks to the inadequacy of NIH oversight. We are funding the collection of specimens, and consolidation to WIV.  Why the fuck do we not have full transparency into every sample that was collected at WIV?  We fund the shit, we should stipulate data transparency. If that is unacceptable we should not be sending them taxpayer money. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Anastasis

[Dahobbs 18349]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I agree generally with this.  I am still in camp of natural origin highly likely and fits the data. Lab consolidation of samples from Yunnan and accidental lab leak possible if not probable as it fits most of the data points. 

I don't agree with this though.  We don't have a comprehensive accounting of the viral specimens studied in the lab.  In fact the Chinese appear to have suppressed our ability to really understand the range of specimens collected from Yunnan and what was being done with them.  This just speaks to the inadequacy of NIH oversight. We are funding the collection of specimens, and consolidation to WIV.  Why the fuck do we not have full transparency into every sample that was collected at WIV?  We fund the shit, we should stipulate data transparency. If that is unacceptable we should not be sending them taxpayer money. 

Sure, we can talk about inadequacy of oversight if you like. But, given that no evidence exists that a virus sufficiently close to sars-cov-2 was modified at the lab, it is pure speculation to suggest that the modification happened. The known facts don't support it.

Now, you might be able to craft a theory that is possible. But there is no evidence to support it. And you certainly don't have any evidence that suggests that work funded by the NIH contributed in any way to the virus' creation. Maybe some unknown project in an unknown part of the lab did. But it wouldn't be related to the research we know was conducted under the NIH grant. 

[Anastasis 23724]

The no evidence exists argument is not particularly compelling in the context of what we know about the Chinese suppression of information. Sucks that this is where we are. Chinese transparency would have avoided all of this but we know that is not part of the dynamic here. If you are not suspicious of the circumstances around WIV data suppression in particular and the broader Chinese government suppression of information , in particular during the army pandemic, I am not sure what to say. I just know that I wouldn’t use that as the basis of my posture on lab origin.