Would the pandemic look any different if the pandemic team was left intact?

[cattail 112]

Interested in thoughts. It seems like the team was disbanded because, well, Obama. With a team of experts constantly monitoring such threats, would the threat have been identified and more proactive measures taken before all of this happened?

[Brisketexan 104612]

I know that many workplaces (including mine) and local governments were already planning for how to deal with this WEEKS before the admin started doing ANYTHING substantive.  So, yes, at the very least, we likely would have seen some earlier action.

All of that said, it all depends on the man at the top.  Even if the team still existed, the minute they started telling him something he didn't want to hear, they'd have been shown the door.

So, maybe the answer is "no, nothing would have made a difference so long as Dotard is in charge."

[LABEVO 928]

If the federal government won't act, the organization would not have had a significant impact.

We could have limited more international travel from hot zones, tested people at points of entry, limited mass gather of people, and started social distancing earlier instead of having to shut down the whole economy. 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

Our hospitals could have been better prepared, we could have made earlier strides with testing, and made real efforts to get ICU beds available- but instead we aren’t doing much of any of that even today. So yes. We would have been better off

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Would we have done more early testing?!?? PROBABLY 

Would it have made all the difference in the world?!?   ABSOLUTELY 

[henrygandorf 29177]

every person or entity or department in the federal govt is limited by how much trump is willing to listen to them.

there was plenty of info out there in january, and we did nothing.  i'm not sure if this would be any different.

the pandemic team probably would've started squawking and giving interviews and trump would've fired them all in february and replaced them with "acting" representatives with no medical background.

[DanTheHorn 4901]

No because Trump would not have listened to them either. Would the pandemic look different if the team would have war game scenarios for a president that takes data into consideration instead of his gut? Probably it would be different because they might have taken the lead for the world instead of just following the China model of shutting everything down. Maybe the team and a competent president would have taken a different approach very early in the process.

[pacman 7329]

I feel confident in saying the country would have had an earlier start on testing with a legit testing strategy in January.

 

As mentioned above, that of course depends on whether or not Trump decided to listen to their advice.

We wouldn't be in situations like:

Quote

Due to the lack of available test kits in February, a doctor was not able to get a requesting patient tested. Instead the doctor gave the patient some medication and sent the patient home. This individual then flew across the country. Feeling more ill, this patient went to a hospital ER and was finally tested for Covid-19. Upon flying back home, days later this patient’s test results proved positive, but by then had come into contact with many people on the ground and in the air.

 

One of those people is my healthy 26-year old son who is currently in ICU battling this infection. Again, due to the lack of available test kits, he was not initially tested since his symptoms appeared minor. After 7 days of fever, and the announcement of the previous patient’s positive diagnosis, my son was finally tested 4 days ago. The results still have not returned since we were told it might take 7 days for the lab results due to the processing backlog. So he is not currently officially part of Los Angeles County’s Covid-19 statistics even though he has been in the hospital for 4 days with the doctors and nurses providing him with excellent care and attempting to stabilize him with a disease that they know has no current cure.

Edited March 24, 2020 by pacman

[TexArcher 37509]

Would a team of well-educated and well-funded professionals who've dedicated their lives to stopping this one exact crisis have been able to at least mitigate this crisis somewhat?

I mean, yeah.

But see also: climate scientists being ignored for the last 30 years.

You can point the cliff out to the lemmings and they'll still run off of it.

[Anastasis 23395]

Which pandemic team are we talking about?  The NSC one? I don't think Bolton rolling them up into other functions really made that much of a difference.  The CDC rep in China that was dismissed in summer of 2019?  That one might have made some difference in sending up teh red flag. 

Either way, I doubt their presence would have had significant impact.  To shut this down, we needed to lock down all foreign travel, from both east at west at first sign. And roll out a massive testing protocol.  The former would be an extremely tough decision to make, but in hindsight we should have shut everything down earlier. The latter is a massive fuck up and heads should literally be rolling. 

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

I think the phrase that best answers this question is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".

It would've been nice to know we had someone in government specifically tasked with preparation to deal with the event at hand, though we all know Trump when briefed on the critical situation brewing in China back in Nov/Dec of 2019 would've smirked and made some crude offhand remark about China then dismissed that individual while quickly forgetting any helpful advice as he headed down to his resort in Florida to play golf and glad hand donors.

Heck, he was either calling it a hoax or applying backhand compliments to China for keeping it under wraps.

It is going to take years to repair the damage his administration has done to our civil services.

[staboner 4958]

no, not a difference at all. no one would have listened to shit as per usual

[horn4life 3755]

Well I can tell you this.  That Hillary Clinton would have taken this seriously.  Been talking seriously about it since early February, and we would have had fucking testing.  She also would not have disbanded something set up to ANTICIPATE and PLAN FOR the next potential pandemic.

Instead we are like a rocket on the coronavirus billboard charts.  Straight to number one!!!  And for once, Trump truly does actually deserve most of the credit.

[Sejjr 3246]

25 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Well I can tell you this.  That Hillary Clinton would have taken this seriously.  Been talking seriously about it since early February, and we would have had fucking testing.  She also would not have disbanded something set up to ANTICIPATE and PLAN FOR the next potential pandemic.

Instead we are like a rocket on the coronavirus billboard charts.  Straight to number one!!!  And for once, Trump truly does actually deserve most of the credit.

Chelsea sock confirmed.

[UpperWestside 6136]

If we had a president with a cognitive level above that of a three year old then yes we would've been better off right now. Instead we have a manchild throwing tantrums that are equal to when a kid doesn't get his Happy Meal because he was acting bad. Our pandemic team would not have been bare bones and would have been monitoring China closely while formulating possible plans well before Christmas. Instead we got Dotard laughing the whole thing off.

The President of the United States and his band of sycophants in the nation's capital that refuse to do their constitutional duty and relieve him of his duties are responsible for this. They know he is an idiot, but he is their idiot so that's not happening.

We all know our country would be in better hands with someone who has the mental capacity to handle the job. That person would have mobilized every resource at our disposal in January, informed the American public what was going on and that we should be preparing for the worst. None of that happened. Instead the worst Boomer of them all is duking it out with his Twitter wars he wages on a daily basis because he is not being shown enough respect by governors, the media and some made up people that only exist in his mind.

Edited March 25, 2020 by UpperWestside

[Junior Miller 1502]

If we had semi competent leadership instead of the worst leadership of any non 3rd world country (and worse than many of those too) it would have been more like the swine flu reaction in 2009. 

Quick response. Early work on increasing testing capacity and PPE supply. And more than that an actual coordinated plan between the fed and states to work towards.  Right now we have zero plan, zero coordination, and levels of govt going in different and sometimes conflicting directions. 

It's been obvious for some time there would be no magical solution here that would get us out unscathed. The markets were going to take a hit, the economy as a whole we're going to take a hit, and people's lives were going to take a hit. Proper leadership looks to run the balance between doing nothing and going full scale shut down while communicating the plan to the masses so preparations can be made. The hit could have been shared between the billionaires, govt, and the people. Instead we're all going to get fucked.  

Life has a way of punishing your worst mistakes and the American people's worst mistake in almost 250 years is going to be very costly. 

[horn4life 3755]

7 hours ago, Sejjr said:

Chelsea sock confirmed.

I like Chelsea, but with Pulisic out and the Premier League playing I'm not able to watch right now.

But yes unequivocally with the coronavirus task force and a President who did not insist he was the smartest person in the room on every subject we might have done a LOT better. 

Mocking me for simply stating that Hillary would not have shit the bed is well... typical. No Worries @Sejjr - I looked back at a few of your posts and you would have a difficult time thinking your way out of a sealed paper bag. Let me know if you ever have an actual thought on a subject, I'd be interested to hear one from you?  Feel free to link when that day comes. I would say "if you are still alive" because of the coronavirus but I imagine you have been social distancing for a very, very, very long time. 😉

[TexArcher 37509]

Carefree wherever we may be

We are the famous CFC!

 

 

 

 

 

Carry on...

[Anastasis 23395]

5 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

 Our pandemic team would not have been bare bones and would have been monitoring China closely while formulating possible plans well before Christmas. 

The first cases were not reported out of China until Dec 31. The first death until mid January. We shut down travel from china at the end of Jan.  In hindsight, we needed to shut down all international travel in mid January. The presence of a pandemic team wasn't going to modify that decision based on the information at hand. A CDC boot on the ground probably wasn't going to either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-timeline.html

 

[DixonHur 11214]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We shut down travel from china at the end of Jan.

That's a flat out lie...not saying you're a liar, but the meme about Dotard shutting down travel to China is not true.  Oft repeated, but still not true.

What the admin did was ban foreign nationals who'd been in China during the previous 14 days from entering the US.  US citizens were/are still able to travel back and forth.

[bad_teammate 13132]

5 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

the American people's worst mistake in almost 250 years

lol the election of Donald Trump isn't even Top 20 on this list

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The first cases were not reported out of China until Dec 31. The first death until mid January. We shut down travel from china at the end of Jan.  In hindsight, we needed to shut down all international travel in mid January. The presence of a pandemic team wasn't going to modify that decision based on the information at hand. A CDC boot on the ground probably wasn't going to either. 

Yeah there was no magical Democrat who was going to change the ultimate nature of this. Improvements around the edges, but the system in place right now is the system we were going to have.

- Hillary wouldn't have moved faster to nationalize the production of necessary materials or mobilized the military to build hospitals or whatever might end up being necessary.
- A Democratic Congress would still be primarily subservient to the demands of private capital (literally the people who paid for Hillary's rise to power) in determining bailouts.

At the debate, when Biden kept saying, "Medicare for All wouldn't stop this virus" he was right. The virus is the virus. Even in nations with leadership more competent than our own this thing spreads because people spread it to other people and a president wouldn't stop that fundamental reality. My need to go to the grocery store doesn't change. A horny teen's desire for Spring Break doesn't change.

[TXSG8R 3360]

18 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I know that many workplaces (including mine) and local governments were already planning for how to deal with this WEEKS before the admin started doing ANYTHING substantive.  So, yes, at the very least, we likely would have seen some earlier action.

All of that said, it all depends on the man at the top.  Even if the team still existed, the minute they started telling him something he didn't want to hear, they'd have been shown the door.

So, maybe the answer is "no, nothing would have made a difference so long as Dotard is in charge."

Yea, I think the ultimate problem is Trump and his inner circle overruling anything from other agencies.  I dont see how they would have been any more effective getting him to take any actions that would have negatively impacted the markets (which means pretty much any action) than Fauci and company.  He was getting stuff in his intel briefings in January about it and chose to ride his feelings over professional input.  

[horn4life 3755]

The bottom line is you have a man in office who quite simply cares about himself more than anyone.  His lack of empathy for others is very well known, and it is also well known that he lost every dime he inherited and made. ALL motivations for Trump begin and end at the tip of his own nose.

The economy is very important to his personal prospects of reelection.  Without reelection he is no longer a sitting President. Normally that means building a Presidential Library, a book, and big money speeches if interested.  Instead Trump is unique in all of history.  He is "Individual 1," the co-conspirator in the same case that Micheal Cohen is currently serving time in federal prison for.  This is the ONLY thing that motivates Trump.  Helping states is simply seen through a singular lens, what looks good or bad politically.

That's why Trump floated the "Easter Reopen" yesterday.  Not because of a fucking thing related to an exponential rise in infected and dead, but to help buoy the market for a few days. Reality is gonna dick slap folks who are coming back into the market except extremely selectively, knowing that you are still in the drop, not the rise.

I shouldn't reply to badteammate - but I actually took logic in college, and well... some folks simply don't do that"logic thing.".  But I would probably say that a President that inherited the best economy inherited in the last 50 years, who destroys the economy, doubles the upward trajectory of the national debt, and allows his incompetence to kill a couple of hundred thousand or perhaps millions of citizens, while losing more jobs numerically than any President in perhaps history, might, just might fall into a top twenty mistake category.  Again I apologize for the insertion of context and logic. Heck there might even be a bonus of a depression, I (prayerfully) did not add to Trump's tally.

[Anastasis 23395]

34 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

That's a flat out lie...not saying you're a liar, but the meme about Dotard shutting down travel to China is not true.  Oft repeated, but still not true.

What the admin did was ban foreign nationals who'd been in China during the previous 14 days from entering the US.  US citizens were/are still able to travel back and forth.

Way to fabricate a flaw to pick a nit while ignoring the point.  Yes, we restricted travel of foreigners coming from China. AKA we shut down travel from China at the end of January. If you are suggesting that the "pandemic team" would have barred entry of US citizens to the United States on Jan 11 you are beyond delusional. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Anastasis

[TXSG8R 3360]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Way to fabricate a flaw to pick a nit.  Yes, we restricted travel of foreigners coming from China. AKA we shut down travel from China at the end of January. If you are suggesting that the "pandemic team" would have barred entry of US citizens to the United States on Jan 11 you are beyond delusional. 

Possibly not, but I would bet they would have been a lot more firm on methods of travel and quarantine upon arrival.  Shit, we werent even doing any serious screening of the swarm of inbound travelers from Europe when he shut that down a couple of weeks ago.  No swabbing, just questions.  

[DixonHur 11214]

15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Way to fabricate a flaw to pick a nit while ignoring the point.  Yes, we restricted travel of foreigners coming from China. AKA we shut down travel from China at the end of January. If you are suggesting that the "pandemic team" would have barred entry of US citizens to the United States on Jan 11 you are beyond delusional. 

Show me where I said the pandemic team would have shut down travel?  Go ahead, I'll wait.

I pointed out that the idea that Trump "shut down travel" to China is a lie...perpetuated by Trump himself.  It never happened, yet he and his apologist point to it as some seminal moment in the fight against COVID-19.  It's not.

The coronavirus doesn't doesn't check your passport before infecting you...it will hitch a ride with a US citizen just as easily as it can a foreign national. 

A "shut down" of travel means NO ONE is traveling...or at minimum only essential travel.   This wasn't, and still isn't a shut down...I can go on Expedia right now and book a trip to China and back*.

Don't be obtuse. 

 

* From the US.  International travel is actually shut down here.

Edited March 25, 2020 by DixonHur

[Anastasis 23395]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Show me where I said the pandemic team would have shut down travel?  

This is the thread where we are discussing "whether the pandemic would look any different if the pandemic team was left intact"? Sorry for interpreting your post in that context. You are arguing semantics of whether allowing US citizens to enter the US from China is a real "shut down" because Trump used those words.  That has nothing to do with what I suggested in the initial post you quoted.  You are fabricating something to pick a nit about while missing the point. Enjoy yourself.  

[DixonHur 11214]

Just now, Anastasis said:

This is the thread where we are discussing "whether the pandemic would look any different if the pandemic team was left intact"? Sorry for interpreting your post in that context. You are arguing semantics of whether allowing US citizens to enter the US from China is a real "shut down" because Trump used those words.  That has nothing to do with what I suggested in the initial post you quoted.  You are fabricating something to pick a nit about while missing the point. Enjoy yourself.  

 

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

We shut down travel from china at the end of Jan.

I only quoted this part of your post...so, yeah, it had everything to do with it.  You were perpetuating Trump's lie in an effort to suggest he took bold steps...and I called bullshit.  Period.

If you want to defend Trump's actions, fine, but you should at least present them factually.

[pacman 7329]

Agree with you there Dixon. One would hope, with the Pandemic team still in tact to advise the country, we would have shutdown/quarantine international travel more competently than we did.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

Was it a Russian or North Korean pandemic team feeding Trump information?  No?  Then no, he would've just ignored them.

[Anastasis 23395]

13 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Possibly not, but I would bet they would have been a lot more firm on methods of travel and quarantine upon arrival.  Shit, we werent even doing any serious screening of the swarm of inbound travelers from Europe when he shut that down a couple of weeks ago.  No swabbing, just questions.  

The thing about operating in this counterfactual space is that we can come up with literally hundreds of things that could have been done differently. Agree completely wrt Europe. If we really wanted to do the travel restriction thing, we probably should have taken the Israeli route and required mandatory quarantine for all international arrivals starting in Jan.  But note that they didn't even apply those restrictions universally until March. I can't find a timeline of South Korea's restrictions, but it would be interesting to see the timelines and when stuff was rolled out. I think that is the only grounded way to assess these counterfactuals, by comparison to real world actions taken by other countries and estimating the effectiveness of those measures.  Otherwise we start to operate in total fantasy land.  

[DixonHur 11214]

2 minutes ago, pacman said:

Agree with you there Dixon. One would hope, with the Pandemic team still in tact to advise the country, we would have shutdown/quarantine international travel more competently than we did.

Thanks, but honestly, I'm not even saying they would.  I'm just tired of people parroting Trump's claims on his quick action to "shut down" travel to China.  It never happened.

Frankly, I'm on the "it probably wouldn't have mattered" team, because Trump only listens to himself and Wall Street. 

I just hate lies perpetuated as fact.

[Anastasis 23395]

8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I only quoted this part of your post...so, yeah, it had everything to do with it.  You were perpetuating Trump's lie in an effort to suggest he took bold steps...and I called bullshit.  Period.

If you want to defend Trump's actions, fine, but you should at least present them factually.

I didn't say anything about Trump you lunatic.  I corrected the fantastical notion of another poster that "pandemic team" would have been monitoring COVID-19 in China and formulating a response plan before it had even been reported and before a single person had died.  Get a grip man.

The first cases were not reported out of China until Dec 31. The first death until mid January. We shut down travel from china at the end of Jan.  In hindsight, we needed to shut down all international travel in mid January. The presence of a pandemic team wasn't going to modify that decision based on the information at hand. A CDC boot on the ground probably wasn't going to either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-timeline.html

[horn4life 3755]

15 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Was it a Russian or North Korean pandemic team feeding Trump information?  No?  Then no, he would've just ignored them.

"How could I know that Vlad was lying?' He only has like 1 CHINESE virus case two weeks ago, and forcefully he told me it will be gone strongly very soon!"

"We inherited a very bad system. nobody could have know. i read about it in the newspaper as did most of you..."

[DixonHur 11214]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The thing about operating in this counterfactual space is that we can come up with literally hundreds of things that could have been done differently. Agree completely wrt Europe. If we really wanted to do the travel restriction thing, we probably should have taken the Israeli route and required mandatory quarantine for all international arrivals starting in Jan.  But note that they didn't even apply those restrictions universally until March. I can't find a timeline of South Korea's restrictions, but it would be interesting to see the timelines and when stuff was rolled out. I think that is the only grounded way to assess these counterfactuals, by comparison to real world actions taken by other countries and estimating the effectiveness of those measures.  Otherwise we start to operate in total fantasy land.  

I've been impressed with the Czech response:

• February 8 (0 cases) - Suspended all direct flights to/from China
• March 1 - 1st 3 cases confirmed
• March 3 (5 cases) - Respirators can only be sold to healthcare providers, welfare providers, and the government
• March 5 (8 cases) - exports of hand sanitizer banned
• March 6 (12 cases) - Czech citizens returning from Italy as of 7 March will have to inform their general practitioners and remain in home quarantine for two weeks
• March 7 (26 cases) - Above quarantine order was extended to people who have permanent or temporary residence in Czech Republic, while train drivers, truck drivers, ambulance drivers and aircraft pilots were excluded
• March 9 (38 cases) - Visits to general hospital wards and retirement homes are banned with exceptions for visiting minors, people with limited legal capacity, new mothers, and hospice and terminal ill patients.
• March 10 (63 cases) -
  • All primary and secondary schools and universities. 
  • Public events with over 100 people banned.
• March 12 (116 cases) - a state of emergency declared.  
  • Pubs and restaurants will be closed from 8 pm to 6 am,
  • Swimming pools and other sports facilities, clubs, galleries and libraries will be closed completely.
  • Public events with more than 30 people prohibited.
  • Borders with Austria and Germany, will only have 11 crossings open for car travel
  • International bus, train and boat lines canceled.  
  • Foreigners from high-risk countries (including Germany and Austria) would be banned from entering the country and Czech nationals would be prohibited from travelling to those countries
• March 16 (383 cases) -
  • Nationwide quarantine, banning all non-work related travel, excluding walking dogs, necessary shopping, and visiting doctors
  • Solitary walks outdoors in nature away from other individuals was also permitted
  • All non-residents barred from entry into the country
  • Czech citizens/permanent residents banned from travelling abroad
• March 18 (560 cases) -
  • Ban on going out anywhere in public while not wearing a surgical mask or covering one's nose and mouth with a scarf.
  • All shops serve only customers aged 65 and over between 10 am and noon

We are now at 1,500 cases, but the government projects it could top out around 15,000.  

 

 

[DixonHur 11214]

55 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I corrected the fantastical notion of another poster that "pandemic team" would have been monitoring COVID-19 in China and formulating a response plan before it had even been reported and before a single person had died.

And I was correcting your fantastical claim (whether your original idea or something from NYT...can't get behind paywall) that Trump shut down travel to China.  

Admit the claim is wrong and move on.  Not sure why you're getting so defensive.  I said in the original post that I wasn't blaming you for the lie...but it is a lie.

[Goredho 17348]

Hillary wouldn't have killed Maw Maw.  She might have killed Vince Foster and Jeffrey Epstein, but not Mee Maw.  That's all I got.

[TXSG8R 3360]

52 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The thing about operating in this counterfactual space is that we can come up with literally hundreds of things that could have been done differently. Agree completely wrt Europe. If we really wanted to do the travel restriction thing, we probably should have taken the Israeli route and required mandatory quarantine for all international arrivals starting in Jan.  But note that they didn't even apply those restrictions universally until March. I can't find a timeline of South Korea's restrictions, but it would be interesting to see the timelines and when stuff was rolled out. I think that is the only grounded way to assess these counterfactuals, by comparison to real world actions taken by other countries and estimating the effectiveness of those measures.  Otherwise we start to operate in total fantasy land.  

This entire thread is an exercise in hypotheticals, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.  I'm not sure about SK's travel restrictions either, but their giant leg up on us is their testing and contact tracing.  The latter isn't feasible without the former.  Aggressive testing leads to catching asymptomatic carriers, possible before they are even contagious, so their contact tracing is hours or single days, not weeks.  Even if their travel restrictions weren't draconian, testing means you can catch people at the gates so to speak and means you can effectively quarantine them, not hit all travelers with blanket quarantines that many will ignore because they feel fine.  Its still a borderline miracle that they were able to keep this shit out of Seoul for the most part.  I dont think its a stretch to compare their initial outbreak (Daegu and Washington St) and how their testing kept it out of their equivalent of NYC, LA, etc.  By the time we got our testing rolling this thing was completely uncontrollable.    

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-korean-air/south-korea-says-flight-attendant-infected-with-virus-worked-los-angeles-route-idUSKCN20L03R  

Quote

U.S. President Donald Trump assured Americans on Wednesday the risk from coronavirus remained “very low” and was not immediately considering travel restrictions to and from countries such as South Korea and Italy that are dealing with outbreaks.

Tomorrow will be one month from when this article was posted.  Pretty hard to square up Trump's travel restriction boasting and the quoted.  

[Anastasis 23395]

5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Admit the claim is wrong and move on.

It's not wrong.  We shut down travel from China. And yes, US citizens were an exception and allowed entry. Everybody who has been paying attention knows this. You are picking a nit and putting words into my mouth to derail. Stop. 

[Anastasis 23395]

5 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

This entire thread is an exercise in hypotheticals, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.  I'm not sure about SK's travel restrictions either, but their giant leg up on us is their testing and contact tracing.  The latter isn't feasible without the former.  Aggressive testing leads to catching asymptomatic carriers, possible before they are even contagious, so their contact tracing is hours or single days, not weeks.  Even if their travel restrictions weren't draconian, testing means you can catch people at the gates so to speak and means you can effectively quarantine them, not hit all travelers with blanket quarantines that many will ignore because they feel fine.  Its still a borderline miracle that they were able to keep this shit out of Seoul for the most part.  I dont think its a stretch to compare their initial outbreak (Daegu and Washington St) and how their testing kept it out of their equivalent of NYC, LA, etc.  By the time we got our testing rolling this thing was completely uncontrollable.    

I agree.  Test capacity strategy was and is still fucked.  We lost precious weeks mounting that response and it could have made a real difference. 

Does SK have point of care testing, or are the turn around times similar to our tests and taking a few days. 

[DixonHur 11214]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We shut down travel from China. And yes, US citizens were an exception and allowed entry.

The fact that you can't see the incongruity here is astounding.  No wonder you're a champion both sider...

It's like saying, I don't eat meat...well, except for beef and pork.

[Anastasis 23395]

Congratulations for picking the nit of a tangential matter of terminology while missing the point completely. 

[Anastasis 23395]

43 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I've been impressed with the Czech response:

• February 8 (0 cases) - Suspended all direct flights to/from China

"That's a flat out lie...not saying you're a liar."

 

Do you see how stupid acting like this is?

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_174494.htm?selectedLocale=en

Allied airlift brings urgent medical supplies to the Czech Republic

A cargo plane carrying several tons of medical supplies from China, including vital respirators and millions of facemasks, landed at Pardubice airport on Tuesday night (24-25 March 2020) to help combat the coronavirus.

The AN-124 plane, one of the largest aircraft ever built, landed overnight in the city of Pardubice. The flight was made possible by the NATO-managed Strategic Airlift International Solution, which provides NATO countries participating in the programme with access to heavy transport aircraft. The Czech Government had tasked the mission.

The plane flew from the city of Shenzhen in China with over 100 tons of equipment, including millions of facemasks, goggles and protective suits. This was the second such flight to the Czech Republic. Further flights to the Czech Republic and Slovakia are planned in the coming days, bringing much needed medical supplies. Special procedures were in place to ensure the safety of the aircrew, with no direct contact with ground crews allowed. 

The Strategic Airlift International Solution, or SALIS, provides NATO countries with a strategic air transport capability. Nine NATO Allies (Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Norway, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia) currently participate in the programme, managed by the NATO Support and Procurement Agency. The aircraft is operated by Antonov Logistics SALIS from Leipzig/Halle airport.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Anastasis

[Pam Cummings 9581]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/15/coronavirus-xi-jinping-chinas-incompetence-endangered-the-world/

 

"On Jan. 30, the same day that WHO declared the epidemic a public health emergency of international concern, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo issued a travel advisory to Americans, warning against visiting China."

 

Apparently some people interpret this as "shutting down all travel to China".

[DixonHur 11214]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

"That's a flat out lie...not saying you're a liar."

 

Do you see how stupid acting like this is?

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_174494.htm?selectedLocale=en

Allied airlift brings urgent medical supplies to the Czech Republic

A cargo plane carrying several tons of medical supplies from China, including vital respirators and millions of facemasks, landed at Pardubice airport on Tuesday night (24-25 March 2020) to help combat the coronavirus.

The AN-124 plane, one of the largest aircraft ever built, landed overnight in the city of Pardubice. The flight was made possible by the NATO-managed Strategic Airlift International Solution, which provides NATO countries participating in the programme with access to heavy transport aircraft. The Czech Government had tasked the mission.

The plane flew from the city of Shenzhen in China with over 100 tons of equipment, including millions of facemasks, goggles and protective suits. This was the second such flight to the Czech Republic. Further flights to the Czech Republic and Slovakia are planned in the coming days, bringing much needed medical supplies. Special procedures were in place to ensure the safety of the aircrew, with no direct contact with ground crews allowed. 

The Strategic Airlift International Solution, or SALIS, provides NATO countries with a strategic air transport capability. Nine NATO Allies (Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Norway, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia) currently participate in the programme, managed by the NATO Support and Procurement Agency. The aircraft is operated by Antonov Logistics SALIS from Leipzig/Halle airport.

Not seeing a point.  

Are you equating a cargo shipment of medical supplies to the CR from China... where the ground crew and flight crew have no contact...with daily non-stop commercial passenger flights between the US and China?

 

[cattail 112]

Letting people go to and from China just because they are US citizens without screening or testing at entry was reckless. If that’s the way they wanted it, may as well have had no restriction at all. As someone mentioned earlier, the Wutang gives a fuck else what passport you hold.

[Anastasis 23395]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Not seeing a point.  

I am unsurprised. 

 

[DixonHur 11214]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am unsurprised. 

 

Zing

[TXSG8R 3360]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I agree.  Test capacity strategy was and is still fucked.  We lost precious weeks mounting that response and it could have made a real difference. 

Does SK have point of care testing, or are the turn around times similar to our tests and taking a few days. 

SK stood up drive-through and walk-up testing almost immediately (11 days from their first know test according to the article).  They knew separating testing from medical care facilities was pretty important.  Results in less than 24 hours.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/how-south-korea-flattened-its-coronavirus-curve-n1167376

They also have a near-real-time map that informs the public on where positive tests are so they can actively avoid the area.  I believe the map also extends the data into contact tracing, so sites visited by the infected is also tracked on the map.  

https://coronamap.site/

Of course that would likely never fly here, because big brother and muh privacies.  

And their inbound traveler system is much more effective, because it involves baseline testing and mandatory quarantine.  It also doesnt differentiate between citizen and foreigner.  Everyone coming in gets the same treatment.  

Quote

South Korea has already started new testing on all arrivals from Europe, according to local news reports, preparing for a "second wave" of imported clusters. Even those who test negative are required to self-quarantine for 14 days.

 

[Anastasis 23395]

15 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

And their inbound traveler system is much more effective, because it involves baseline testing and mandatory quarantine.  It also doesnt differentiate between citizen and foreigner.  Everyone coming in gets the same treatment.  

 

Mandatory quarantine for all entries is absolutely the right call.  If I read correctly in the article, they enacted that on Sunday. That could have made a difference back in January here, but assholes wouldn't have complied with a voluntary one.  We would have had to lock people down.  That should be implemented immediately to prevent additional waves entering, just as they did in SK. 

Does anybody have a chronological listing of the SK measures similar to what Dixon posted for the Czech measures upthread?

Edited March 25, 2020 by Anastasis