Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate

[RollLeft 5,040]

18 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Depends on the project.  For larger government projects it's incremental billing.  For data centers it's one invoice when the PO is received.  On the smaller stuff it's no big deal.  We get the work and in a week to 10 days it's done and we are at a net 30 payment cycle.  It's the bigger projects for data centers where we could be 60-90 days out from being paid that's a kick in the nuts to cashflow at times.  I'm working with the data centers to receive the materials portion of the invoice when material hits the site so I can compress that portion of the timetable for payment.

Nearly every one of our clients is on net 30.  One is on net 45 but they are very good at hitting that 45 day payment mark.

for every big job can you do two to three small jobs at the same time to fund cash flow? 

or

Until you have the cash reserves to do it without credit (if you have the ability to set up multiple lines of credit) you could fund 30 days of payroll with one line (should be no more than 50% of the line) and then pay it off before interest hits with funding or a second line and then pay that one off with funding before 60 days or a third line.  No more than one big job at a time on the lines.    

 

[Gale Snoats 242]

I'm a commercial litigation attorney in Austin with strong focus on construction.  The order issued by COA is poorly drafted and is creating a ton of confusion in the industry.  COA's intent is to shut down pretty much all residential and commercial construction but the order, as drafted, has holes that allow for exceptions to swallow the rule.  COA issued a 'clarification memo' earlier today but it isn't helping.  I've been on the phone with clients all morning who are scrambling trying to figure out what to do. 

[RollLeft 5,040]

Welcome! 

 

What do you call an attorney at the bottom....;)

 

[InkaUtexas 25,852]

20 minutes ago, Gale Snoats said:

I'm a commercial litigation attorney in Austin with strong focus on construction.  The order issued by COA is poorly drafted and is creating a ton of confusion in the industry.  COA's intent is to shut down pretty much all residential and commercial construction but the order, as drafted, has holes that allow for exceptions to swallow the rule.  COA issued a 'clarification memo' earlier today but it isn't helping.  I've been on the phone with clients all morning who are scrambling trying to figure out what to do. 

Tell them to pay 3.50 and get on the site. More the merrier, plus the Surl leaders need cash infusion for more server space and the HUGE fucking party we need to throw when this is over. 

[lonestar3 274]

26 minutes ago, Gale Snoats said:

I'm a commercial litigation attorney in Austin with strong focus on construction.  The order issued by COA is poorly drafted and is creating a ton of confusion in the industry.  COA's intent is to shut down pretty much all residential and commercial construction but the order, as drafted, has holes that allow for exceptions to swallow the rule.  COA issued a 'clarification memo' earlier today but it isn't helping.  I've been on the phone with clients all morning who are scrambling trying to figure out what to do. 

subscribed

[Spaulding Smails 1,552]

1 hour ago, Gale Snoats said:

I'm a commercial litigation attorney in Austin with strong focus on construction.  The order issued by COA is poorly drafted and is creating a ton of confusion in the industry.  COA's intent is to shut down pretty much all residential and commercial construction but the order, as drafted, has holes that allow for exceptions to swallow the rule.  COA issued a 'clarification memo' earlier today but it isn't helping.  I've been on the phone with clients all morning who are scrambling trying to figure out what to do. 

Get em Sea Bass!

AIA sent out a memo from their attorneys basically outlining the same thing.  There are numerous conflicts with Travis County orders, direct contradiction of previous information, and the memo provided by Development Services last night essentially "fails to provide clarity".  

[Spaulding Smails 1,552]

Below is the summary of the second stimulus package that I just received from our HR consultant.  If true about advance refunding, this could be a huge shot in the arm for many businesses from a cash flow perspective.  Lots to be verified and digested here, but it's a start.

• Late last night Senate lawmakers struck a deal for a $2 trillion stimulus package aimed at helping the people, states and businesses devastated by the coronavirus pandemic. The Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act — or CARES Act —  covers an array of programs, including direct payments to Americans, an aggressive expansion of unemployment insurance, billions in aid to large and small businesses, and a new wave of significant funding for the health care industry. The Senate is expected to vote on this later today! Here are the highlights as it stands :
  • Financial assistance to Americans (direct checks based on income level)
  • An extended unemployment insurance program for laid-off workers that will allow for four months of "full pay," and raise the maximum benefit by $600 per week. The provisions for UI will be back dated to January 27^th.
  • $150B for the Health Care System.
  • $150B to state and local governments.
  • The CARES Act provides for advance refunding of paid sick and family leave credits so that employers can get the money they need to provide paid leave in the near-term.
  • $350B for small businesses impacted by the pandemic in the form of loans…and some of these loans could be forgiven (portions pertaining to payroll costs)! Businesses could receive a maximum of two and a half months’ worth of payroll costs, up to a maximum of $10 million, but forgiveness would be proportional based on how many employees the employer retained compared to its pre-COVID-19 levels. Employers can receive credits and loan forgiveness for pay provided to workers who were laid off on March 1 or later if they rehire and pay them.

[G650 14,229]

1 minute ago, Spaulding Smails said:

$350B for small businesses impacted by the pandemic in the form of loans…and some of these loans could be forgiven (portions pertaining to payroll costs)!

This would be huge.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Yes it would.  I presume the payroll portion of the loan is for the entire payroll of the company?

[deadshank 24,652]

10 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Yes it would.  I presume the payroll portion of the loan is for the entire payroll of the company?

I imagine the paperwork will be finominile.  How many cheaters will try to inflate wages and salaries if no historical proof data is involved in the application for aid?

[RollLeft 5,040]

12 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Yes it would.  I presume the payroll portion of the loan is for the entire payroll of the company?

Did you just now remember your raise?  

[RollLeft 5,040]

2 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I imagine the paperwork will be finominile.  How many cheaters will try to inflate wages and salaries if no historical proof data is involved in the application for aid?

I take it your not fond of the SEC.  

[mulletpelini 5,210]

1. Cut hourly employees time by 1/3

2. Increase managers hours by 1/3

3. Decrease managers pay by 1/3. 

5.  Sell toilet paper on eBay to the highest bidder. 

Profit.

Edited March 25, 2020 by mulletpelini

[RollLeft 5,040]

These are challenging times for businesses all over the nation. The Texas Comptroller’s office knows that during periods of economic hardship, paying or remitting taxes and fees on time can feel like an extra burden when there’s so much uncertainty. We’re thankful to those businesses that were able to remit state and local sales taxes they collected from customers in February on the March 20, 2020, due date. We understand that virtually all of our taxpayers are doing their best to remain in compliance and be responsible in submitting the taxes they collected from their customers. With that in mind, our agency is here to offer assistance to those businesses that are struggling to pay the full amount of sales taxes they collected in February. For businesses that find themselves in this situation, our agency is offering assistance in the form of short-term payment agreements and, in most instances, waivers of penalties and interest. We ask that you contact our Enforcement Hotline at 800-252-8880 to learn about your options for remaining in compliance and avoiding interest and late fees on taxes due. In addition, we have a variety of online tools for businesses seeking assistance. See our COVID-19 emergency response webpage for access to online tools, tutorials and other resources for tax services, and to establish 24/7 online account access with Webfile. We’re standing by to help Texas businesses during these difficult times.

[Brew 3,049]

5 hours ago, Spaulding Smails said:

Subscribed.  I've posted in two of the other threads, but I have a construction (residential and commercial) and facility maintenance company in Austin.  65 employees currently.  80% of my workforce can't work remotely.  I was incredibly optimistic yesterday that construction was an "essential business".  Local trade organizations, my builder customers and my attorney agreed.  Last night, the City of Austin Development Services sent out a memo strictly forbidding construction.  We have until Friday to "make safe" job sites.  Now, I'm scrambling to figure out how we deal with those repercussions.   Tons hinging on the details of this most recent $2T bill and its effects on unemployment and small businesses.  An interpretation of that is going to have a huge bearing on my decisions over the next week.

From a general business sense, here's my takes:

THE GOOD

-Our balance sheet is super clean.  Minimal debt.  We own our property.  Big line of credit sitting idle.  Lots of assets paid in full.  

-We pay our vendors and subs super fast.  I can extend those terms and create additional cash-on-hand if needed.

-Our company is very diverse.  We offer a wide range of services to a wide range of markets.  I want more of that diversity when this is all over.  It's going to be huge in saving our ass.

-We have a strong backlog.  Though not on par with a big commercial firm, we have a legitimate 90 days of work.  I want to challenge my team to secure more work.  It was said above, but we're going to shift our business model during this downtime to create more commissioned sales opportunities on the service side.

-I should still have cash coming in.  We have 30+ days of revenue store in accounts receivable.  Assuming those invoices don't hit snags, I may actually see cash reserves increase in the next few weeks.  

THE BAD

-The first bill includes guaranteed 80 hours of paid time off for employees.  That takes effect April 2.  That's my deadline.  Though that would be reimbursable to me in the form of a payroll tax credit, it would be a huge hit on cash flow to float 65 employees with minimal revenue.  I have our HR consultant helping me figure out what we're going to do, but we have to act by April 1.  That's probably going to be layoffs for a few salaried overhead positions and anyone that has been with us less than 90 days.  

-If this thing lingers for longer than a few weeks, we're probably going to have to lay a bunch of people off.  I don't envy restaurants, hospitality, etc.  They've already had to make those decisions.  I'm dreading it.  I've developed a tiered approach, but I'm guessing I'll have to reduce workforce by 1/3 if we're not back to work April 13.

-When we get back to work, demand is going to be pent up.  It will be short-term, but jobs that were underway are going to want to catch up.  Jobs that were supposed to start April 1 are going to want to start immediately.  Jobs that were going to start mid-April are still going to want to start mid-April.  We're going to see a big push with limited resources in a very short amount of time.  

-The supply chain will be taxed when we get back to work.  Nothing will be easy to get.  We've already banned our guys from going to Home Depot between 7 AM - 5 PM because the lines are so long. 

-We'll probably see a jump in the price of materials.  Tightened supply will lead to higher prices.

-We're going to get undercut.  We're a premium service provider.  We lost a job this week to another smaller contractor.  The ripple effect will be stronger and more continuous as people get desperate for cash and sacrifice profitability.

-The backlog is going to come to a screeching halt.  Once we work through what we have, new jobs are going to be few and far between.  As mentioned elsewhere, commercial development is going to take a huge hit.  You have to think that residential construction will be the same.  Hence my previous point about a much stronger focus on service.

Thanks for creating this thread.  Great to have a sounding board.  If nothing else, misery loves company!

I’ll get through a lot of the rest of this when I get some time tonight, but the first bill does NOT guarantee 80 hours. It is an FMLA extension and based on instructions from my two labor law attorneys if you are shut down as nonessential this bill does not cover you. It only covers business entities open where people can’t come to work for one of the 6 established reasons. You have to dig into the wording that was used in the bill and the FMLA law it lays on top of. That doesn’t mean they will not come back later and pull that group in with a future interpretation, but that is our understanding as of today. It is also not addressed in any specific DOL posting at the moment.
 

I would be curious how they are coming to their interpretation.

[Js1 85,257]

7 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

I take it your not fond of the SEC.  

I’m not. Overrated conference. 

[Spaulding Smails 1,552]

16 minutes ago, Brew said:

I’ll get through a lot of the rest of this when I get some time tonight, but the first bill does NOT guarantee 80 hours. It is an FMLA extension and based on instructions from my two labor law attorneys if you are shut down as nonessential this bill does not cover you. It only covers business entities open where people can’t come to work for one of the 6 established reasons. You have to dig into the wording that was used in the bill and the FMLA law it lays on top of. That doesn’t mean they will not come back later and pull that group in with a future interpretation, but that is our understanding as of today. It is also not addressed in any specific DOL posting at the moment.
 

I would be curious how they are coming to their interpretation.

That's good insight.  I haven't read through the bill, but our HR consultant indicated that we WOULD be on the hook for up to 80 hours if a shelter in place prohibited our people from working (assuming they can't work remotely).  If it's limited to those six reasons (essentially direct effect of COVID-19), then we're in a much better spot as a company, but our employees are now up a creek.  I understood the FMLA piece that extends beyond that timeframe the same as you.  

Let me know if you have any more insight or can cite the specifics of that provision that I can share with our consultant.  

FYI, it sounds like the DOL updated the effective date for that first bill to April 1 to coincide with the start of the quarter as opposed to the previously communicated April 2 enactment date.  

[VABuckeye 2,472]

How difficult is the government going to make this to get for small businesses?  I expect that I already know the answer.

[Iceman 2,690]

17 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

How difficult is the government going to make this to get for small businesses?  I expect that I already know the answer.

May or may not be related to the dollars being discussed upthread, but I read in the main press release that some of that relief was for businesses who have been able to keep paying employees even if they are not working.  The relief is in the form of gov't reimbursing businesses up to 50% of the wages they paid out.

[Brew 3,049]

49 minutes ago, Spaulding Smails said:

That's good insight.  I haven't read through the bill, but our HR consultant indicated that we WOULD be on the hook for up to 80 hours if a shelter in place prohibited our people from working (assuming they can't work remotely).  If it's limited to those six reasons (essentially direct effect of COVID-19), then we're in a much better spot as a company, but our employees are now up a creek.  I understood the FMLA piece that extends beyond that timeframe the same as you.  

Let me know if you have any more insight or can cite the specifics of that provision that I can share with our consultant.  

FYI, it sounds like the DOL updated the effective date for that first bill to April 1 to coincide with the start of the quarter as opposed to the previously communicated April 2 enactment date.  

I’ll try and post some information tonight. Again, I think the intent from talking to legislators was to cover those under mandatory shutdown. However, my HR attorney’s, firm HR staff, and our outside owned HR consulting firm have all come back with the same interpretation which is by definition they are not covered. The DOL could easily release a Q&A that brings them into the equation though. I would imagine your HR consultant reads the “subject to Federal, State, or Local quarantine or isolation order” as making them subject to coverage. My guys read that as being specific to the individual. In this case the individual isn’t quarantined, the business is just ordered to close. That impacts the employee, but is not a specific order to the employee as they are free to move around, just not at work. FMLA laws are related to specific employee actions, not general business actions.

I’m also going to say, do your own research and do not rely on the above as legal advice and all the other legal mumbo jumbo. I’m neither an attorney or HR expert, I am just passing on what those I write checks to (a lot of them) have told me.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Brew

[VABuckeye 2,472]

My largest project was suspended indefinitely today.It's a complete upgrade and renovation of the east building of the National Gallery of Art.  It's a two year project for us and the west building is supposed to trail right behind it.  It has already had a ton of delays and now we don't know when we'll get in there.  $500k project so this one will sting.

[InkaUtexas 25,852]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

My largest project was suspended indefinitely today.It's a complete upgrade and renovation of the east building of the National Gallery of Art.  It's a two year project for us and the west building is supposed to trail right behind it.  It has already had a ton of delays and now we don't know when we'll get in there.  $500k project so this one will sting.

Anticipate now a redefining of projects and priorities. We are seeing it especially in the VA and USACE. 

[RollLeft 5,040]

https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/

 

[VABuckeye 2,472]

I suspect there will be modifications to the SBA site when (if?) this gets through the house on Friday.

[Moby Ric 2,058]

I am just having issues getting a hold of clients to sign contracts etc.  Everybody working remote aka sitting by their pool drinking, is messing up the timing of getting things back when they are due.  You want to be drunk by noon by the pool I am ok with that, just fill out some paperwork first.

[G650 14,229]

In Tidewater Va., we have two distinct areas, the Southside, which is where Norfolk, Portsmouth, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake and Suffolk are located, and the Peninsula, where Hampton, Newport News and Williamsburg are. The Peninsula is a little more archaic than the Southside, where all the localities manage their own water systems. On the Peninsula , Newport News Water Works owns and manages all the systems for every city. Just found out they are shuttering indefinitely, so no taps or water main installation over there.

[UTPhil2006 3,801]

7 minutes ago, Moby Ric said:

I am just having issues getting a hold of clients to sign contracts etc.  Everybody working remote aka sitting by their pool drinking, is messing up the timing of getting things back when they are due.  You want to be drunk by noon by the pool I am ok with that, just fill out some paperwork first.

This applies to after the virus too.  I'm all about you doing whatever you feel like (day baseball, day drinking, traveling, etc) just get your shit done first

[Dbeasy 15,039]

I am just having issues getting a hold of clients to sign contracts etc.  Everybody working remote aka sitting by their pool drinking, is messing up the timing of getting things back when they are due.  You want to be drunk by noon by the pool I am ok with that, just fill out some paperwork first.

How many times do I have to tell you to stop calling me while Judge Judy is on tv.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

On 3/25/2020 at 11:12 AM, Gale Snoats said:

I'm a commercial litigation attorney in Austin with strong focus on construction.  The order issued by COA is poorly drafted and is creating a ton of confusion in the industry.  COA's intent is to shut down pretty much all residential and commercial construction but the order, as drafted, has holes that allow for exceptions to swallow the rule.  COA issued a 'clarification memo' earlier today but it isn't helping.  I've been on the phone with clients all morning who are scrambling trying to figure out what to do. 

I posted in the downtown projects thread but I have a concrete construction firm and we have a project in COA  that has beams open all over the place with a pour scheduled for early next week and more to follow.  If left open for a period of time we will lose all of our work.  We need like two weeks to get out of there.

City has us by the sack since copper and grounding wire needs to be inspected before we pour, so if they say no, then we are screwed.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Yesterday there was a portal open to apply for SBA disaster loan assistance online.  Clicking on the link today takes one to a page where the application can be downloaded to be printed, filled out and mailed in.  Yeah, that's going to be an efficient process.  Furk.

[G650 14,229]

Just now, VABuckeye said:

Yesterday there was a portal open to apply for SBA disaster loan assistance online.  Clicking on the link today takes one to a page where the application can be downloaded to be printed, filled out and mailed in.  Yeah, that's going to be an efficient process.  Furk.

Yeah, I was just there. Downloaded the forms at least.

[Hefeweizen 5,308]

Yeah the bad news is starting to come in.  Contracts being put on hold or canceled.  If it’s two weeks we won’t lay anyone off.  If it’s longer you’re going to see RIF everywhere starting in a couple of weeks.

 

I have a sick feeling right now.

[Chewbacca 7,765]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:34 AM, G650 said:

It's a bad time to be playing a shell game.

If there's one thing I have learned about construction, it's that even in the good times, most subs are terrible with money.

 

I would be joint checking everyone right now.

[Hefeweizen 5,308]

54 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

If there's one thing I have learned about construction, it's that even in the good times, most subs are terrible with money.

 

I would be joint checking everyone right now.

Quoted for truth.  As soon as you get a notice of intent to file a lien stop the GC and find out what is up.  Nothing gets paid without final lien waivers for all prior draws.  Nothing.

[G650 14,229]

57 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

If there's one thing I have learned about construction, it's that even in the good times, most subs are terrible with money.

Eh, I don't know about that. I was actually just having a conversation with a developer this morning about this. Commercial GC's by and large are absolute gutter trash and their entire business model is predicated on grinding their subs into dust. I honestly don't know how some of these little guys survive at all getting their money drug out for years. For a site guy like me, we have so much capitalization that we can absorb a ton, not that it doesn't suck, it does, but these little guys just don't have that kind of capacity. Having 100 grand net 12 months is a killer, and that's not at all unusual for those guys.

 

That said, plenty of the trade types run totally under capitalized.

[Chewbacca 7,765]

10 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Quoted for truth.  As soon as you get a notice of intent to file a lien stop the GC and find out what is up.  Nothing gets paid without final lien waivers for all prior draws.  Nothing.

Once you get an intent to lien, it might be too late to joint check them.  That's the problem.  

 

Glad I'm not in that business anymore.  That side of it sucked and people you thought would never screw you were always the ones that did it.

[Chewbacca 7,765]

7 minutes ago, G650 said:

Eh, I don't know about that. I was actually just having a conversation with a developer this morning about this. Commercial GC's by and large are absolute gutter trash and their entire business model is predicated on grinding their subs into dust. I honestly don't know how some of these little guys survive at all getting their money drug out for years. For a site guy like me, we have so much capitalization that we can absorb a ton, not that it doesn't suck, it does, but these little guys just don't have that kind of capacity. Having 100 grand net 12 months is a killer, and that's not at all unusual for those guys.

 

That said, plenty of the trade types run totally under capitalized.

Doing big infrastructure jobs, you're likely dealing with a different class of subs than we did building apartments and townhomes.

[G650 14,229]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Doing big infrastructure jobs, you're likely dealing with a different class of subs than we did building apartments and townhomes.

Oh, no doubt. That's why I mentioned trade types.

[G650 14,229]

4 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

That side of it sucked and people you thought would never screw you were always the ones that did it.

One upside to the work we do is that it's a very, very small community on the development side. You just can't afford to burn a bridge.

[closetojumping 62,506]

I'm involved with a bunch of entities as a lead investor for an investing group, and/or board member, and/or on the adisory council or, in one case, my day job, CEO. Some start-ups and some small businesses. A few are going to win through this collapse because they're either digitally-oriented; in health & wellness; or involved with deathcare. A few are ??? including my day job. A few are shut down as "non-essential" at the moment and will be proper fucked without an infusion in capital. Literally none of them have a common shareholder/owner group with another, which, right now, is another complication. Each one has its own story and point of focus. I will spare the board running all of them down.

For my day job, things were great. Triple digit growth 3 years in a row since we got it going. Jan and Feb both beat forecasts and were profitable. March was going to be a big month. Overnight, we lost one third of our book. The work for those accounts were put on hold to resume in April, May, or June. 19 companies, and 3 have since already completely folded shop, including one in Austin that is attached to an even bigger entity that is probably about be completely vaporized too. 

Expecting things to get a fuckton worse, I've done this so far:

1) Terminated an LOI to buy another firm (was going to be a deal in Austin).

2) Pivoted debt conversation with commercial bank financing the acquisition to us receiving a LOC. We're supposed to complete the LOC work this week, which would cover two months of full blown expenses with zero revenue, neverminding roughly half of that amount also in the bank right now. The bank is dragging its feet I presume due to this "stimulus" package and I think I'm okay with that, because it might make more sense to apply for an SBA loan instead, given what I'm reading is coming out through this thing.

3) Announced layoffs to staff coming at end of this month. Worked through with the leadership team a 1/3 RIF. Fucking blows, as they're good people. We told each one impacted today, over a fucking Zoom call for each. I watched my mom and dad get laid off all of the time on the ship channel as a boy and wanted to be a job creator. This will be my first layoff after running businesses or large departments for the last 18 years. Even the most deserving person I ever fired, it took a little bit of my soul to take food off of their table. This one hurts, but I'll hire most back if the dust settles and we're still standing in July/August. One caveat is if the stimulus bill really does enable a quick lifeline for a loan that will allow forgiveness of the portions used for payroll provided no layoffs. I've got a few days to figure that out with the lawyers and then retract the layoffs.

4) Cut leadership team salaries in half for 3 months, suspended IRA matching for 3 months, froze all other salary increases until further notice.

5) Sent requests for lease payment deferrals to landlords in Houston and Austin for months April-June, paying all off by breaking 3 months into 6 pieces and paying one piece each month, July-Dec. Houston landlord came back and said he'd do a 50% deferral. Fair. Haven't taken it yet. Waiting to see if there's any rent amnesty in the next week from local/state/feds. Austin landlord is apparently the anti- @Iconoclast Texan and simply told us "no". So, we're moving out of our Austin office into permanent WFH for those employees until we again achieve critical mass again down the line in that market. The landlord can have their deposit of two month's rent and enjoy filling the lease again when the dust settles. 

6) Cut numerous other expenses, asked to pause various contracts with vendors or defer payments for 1-3 month periods beyond standard agreements. 

7) Put out word to competitors across both markets that we're buying clients and willing to pay rev share for any of them that are shutting completely down over this. Heard back from 3 players that are pondering the offer. 

The digital side of the work we do for clients, and a significant chunk of the remaining book of clients being in somewhat insulated industries to this shutdown, means we've got a strong chance to survive and then win a bunch of business. That said, I took these drastic measures to catch a windfall in April and survive what might be almost nothing but harsh cash burn in May-July. Hope I'm wrong.

I have spent a fuckton of time with all of the other entities working through how to make use of the upcoming package for their businesses, but damned near all of them will be filing for emergency loans at the least. The day spa we in own in part was forced to close last Saturday and was directly impacted. It's one of the oldest of its kind in America, was in great shape, and has a solid brand. Sucks. A software start-up is in the restaurant and bar space with a too long beta going on mostly in Austin. They lost 60 clients in one day after the SXSW announcement. They might actually benefit from this and the government provisions, if they get them. They're dead otherwise.

 

[G650 14,229]

3 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

This will be my first layoff after running businesses or large departments for the last 18 years.

It's brutal man. By far the worst thing I've ever had to do in all my years.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

9 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Doing big infrastructure jobs, you're likely dealing with a different class of subs than we did building apartments and townhomes.

We won't do apartments or residential at all.  What a shit show.

Last year we ended up with a hole in our schedule and we went and did a labor job for some apartment sidewalks.  We kept the GC owner on a short leash but were still unable to complete the job because owner/GC couldn't pay their concrete bills.  We got paid what we were owed except for the work we had formed up and ready to pour but couldn't due to non payment of concrete bills.  They still owe the concrete plant as of 2 weeks ago.  Never again.

[landman 559]

2 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I posted in the downtown projects thread but I have a concrete construction firm and we have a project in COA  that has beams open all over the place with a pour scheduled for early next week and more to follow.  If left open for a period of time we will lose all of our work.  We need like two weeks to get out of there.

City has us by the sack since copper and grounding wire needs to be inspected before we pour, so if they say no, then we are screwed.

Is any aspect of the project public works, i.e. water main work, installing a water line for a meter, repairing a public road, etc.?  

The stop work order says if a project has any public work aspect to it, then the entire project is exempt.  That's what we and our contractors are following.  Understanding that getting inspections will likely still be a problem.

[Incredulity 11,643]

Quote

2) Pivoted debt conversation with commercial bank financing the acquisition to us receiving a LOC. We're supposed to complete the LOC work this week, which would cover two months of full blown expenses with zero revenue, neverminding roughly half of that amount also in the bank right now. The bank is dragging its feet I presume due to this "stimulus" package and I think I'm okay with that, because it might make more sense to apply for an SBA loan instead, given what I'm reading is coming out through this thing.

Frankly, IMPO I would keep pushing on your lender.  No way in hell I would count on the SBA/ Federal Government to provide liquidity.  They will undoubtedly be months late and dollars short.

 

[LarryTT 26]

5) keep an eye on whatever your exit strategy is and pull the plug before it devours your current personal assets- don’t feed the business “until this is over” if that’s not viable- no shame in going out of business in this environment and you are likely to get the best of what we is coming from government/creditors if you move now with the mass of people and not later. Don’t be overly optimistic about what recovery looks like/ if you were barely making it right now what’s your future business look like with 20% less GDP- don’t be afraid to rip off the bandaid. 

 

This   ^^^

 

Sold my Sleep/DME/Respiratory company (specialzing in VENTILATORS) last August. CMS had cut our reimbursement almost 40% and I almost tried to hang on too long. I'm too old for this shit. Glad I was able to salvage employee jobs with a national company. These are some frontline people you don't hear about much. This sector will be further decimated (lost 40% of providers the last few years) and the need is greater. smdh  but go ahead, buy it on the internet.....

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Looking at the SBA route.  I'm nervous about it because we are very small.  I think we still qualify in Virginia as a micro-business. 

We tried residential prewires during a slow period last year and never again.  Commercial and government work is our wheelhouse and we're sticking with it through thick and thin.  We are extremely efficient and good with that type of work and I don't have to worry about a trim guy or drywaller fucking up my work.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Looking at the SBA route.  I'm nervous about it because we are very small.

Looks like very little downside. Here's a good like/article from investopedia:

https://www.investopedia.com/coronavirus-aid-relief-and-economic-security-cares-act-4800707

Key paragraphs from the article:

Through the end of 2020, the act extends Small Business Administration (SBA) loans known as 7(a) loans to any business, private nonprofit, or public nonprofit organization with under 500 employees. Borrowers can receive loans equal to 2.5 times their monthly payroll, mortgage, rent, and debt payment expense, up to $10 million. Borrowers can use these loans for a broad range of business expenses including payroll, paid sick leave, mortgage, rent, utilities, and payments on existing debts. 

The act directs the SBA to collect no fees or reduce the fees for these loans to the maximum extent possible. The normal prepayment penalties are also to be waived. These emergency loans are guaranteed 100% through the rest of 2020, then guaranteed up to 75–85% of the original loan depending on loan size. Payments on the loans are deferred up to one year. There is no limit on the total amount of the commitment that can be guaranteed by the SBA for these loans. The act also raises the size of SBA Express loans for small businesses under the 7(a) program from $350,000 to $1 million for the remainder of 2020.

The CARES Act further provides for forgiveness of the loan amounts used for the costs of maintaining continuity during 2020 for payroll and debt payments, plus additional wages paid to tipped employees. Businesses that lay off workers can be penalized in that the amount forgiven will be reduced in proportion to any workforce reductions (relative to second quarter of 2019 employed workers) or reductions in pay for employees earning less than $100K per year or $33K per quarter. The amount of debt forgiven under this program is not to be counted as taxable income.

 

[VABuckeye 2,472]

2.5 times payroll would get me by for sure. I've printed the application and nowhere does it ask how much I'm looking for.  Weird.  Our current receivables are solid but they start to dry up at the end of May currently.

[G650 14,229]

2 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Looking at the SBA route.  I'm nervous about it because we are very small.  I think we still qualify in Virginia as a micro-business. 

We tried residential prewires during a slow period last year and never again.  Commercial and government work is our wheelhouse and we're sticking with it through thick and thin.  We are extremely efficient and good with that type of work and I don't have to worry about a trim guy or drywaller fucking up my work.

It's always struck me as funny how the trades gravitate towards government and commercial and it's the opposite on the site side. Residential development is so much easier and more lucrative we always try to be 100% residential, which we currently are. I do municipal and commercial site work fairly regularly, but single family subdivision is our wheel house.

 

We do have a dedicated group of contractors here that does the muni stuff, and there are upsides to it, like you always get paid on time and such, but the residential is just so much easier to deal with. Basically get in a field and roll then turn in the bill. It takes a good people person at the top though, as it's 100% relationship based. There's only three of us in the whole area right now doing the subdivision work because of that, and one of those is because they are eye bleedingly cheap.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Just now, VABuckeye said:

2.5 times payroll would get me by for sure. I've printed the application and nowhere does it ask how much I'm looking for.  Weird.  Our current receivables are solid but they start to dry up at the end of May currently.

Keep in mind the bill hasn't passed yet, so who knows? Having solid receivables is a double edged sword right now. I love the thought of cash coming in, but I have a feeling "slow pay" is going to become the norm.