Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate

[Samson's Wig 3,193]

Annoyed with BofA at the moment.  Have held multiple high value/volume business accounts with them for over fifteen years, along with my personal accounts.  Can't apply because I've never borrowed money from them.  Well, if they would have met the better deals for borrowing that I found elsewhere over the years maybe I would have.  Fuck BofA.

[nycHorn 3,037]

The Chase portal to the PPP program can't even load the page.  What a mess.

My girlfriend, the accountant, sent me this link and said it's easily rolled into Chase's app.  Take that for what it's worth.  I was able to fill this out and submit no problem.  I'll keep trying Chase's portal as that's where my business account is parked.

https://covid19relief.sba.gov/#/

[RollLeft 5,045]

My banker said Monday.  Apparently they are waiting on a big meeting over the weekend before its a go for them.  She said most banks holding off until then.  Besides BofA taking apps today I know Frost did also.  It could be competitor bullshit but our banker said BofA is asking for additional items.   I wouldn't put it past the big boys to pull rank and ask to be first in line.  

Edited April 3, 2020 by RollLeft

[nycHorn 3,037]

So the link from my Chase account was incorrect.  They fixed it and you can only fill out a preliminary form and it says someone will get back to you.  The word my gf was getting is that it wasn't supposed to go live today, so sounds like they're just gathering info and waiting until next week.  

[troph 24,877]

looks like enough large regionals and national banks are slow enough that this might not run out today.  would be utterly shocked if funds are left by midweek next week.  and if enough of an underfunding, I'd expect Congress to add additional funding, but that's all conjecture.

[Hagbard Celine 10,876]

51 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Annoyed with BofA at the moment.  Have held multiple high value/volume business accounts with them for over fifteen years, along with my personal accounts.  Can't apply because I've never borrowed money from them.  Well, if they would have met the better deals for borrowing that I found elsewhere over the years maybe I would have.  Fuck BofA.

I tried to pay off and cancel a credit card with them that dates back to MBNA days in the 90s.  My last exposure to them.  Don't have the passwords.  They refuse to take my money and cancel the card and WILL ONLY CANCEL IT IF I GO IN PERSON TO THE BRANCH.  Mothefuckers.

[troph 24,877]

19 minutes ago, nycHorn said:

So the link from my Chase account was incorrect.  They fixed it and you can only fill out a preliminary form and it says someone will get back to you.  The word my gf was getting is that it wasn't supposed to go live today, so sounds like they're just gathering info and waiting until next week.  

late yesterday there was a rumor it would be delayed then the rules dropped and they confirmed today.  it's been a cluster all morning. i'm praying there isn't another left turn.  I'm completely exhausted right now.

[po elvis 2,076]

30 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

My banker said Monday.  Apparently they are waiting on a big meeting over the weekend before its a go for them.  She said most banks holding off until then.  Besides BofA taking apps today I know Frost did also.  It could be competitor bullshit but our banker said BofA is asking for additional items.   I wouldn't put it past the big boys to pull rank and ask to be first in line.  

How is Frost taking them? I don't see a place on their website for it yet. Just email it in?

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Yep, just used it.

Yes

What (specific) documents did you provide?  941s, payroll registers, what else? 

[deadshank 24,653]

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

Annoyed with BofA at the moment.  Have held multiple high value/volume business accounts with them for over fifteen years, along with my personal accounts.  Can't apply because I've never borrowed money from them.  Well, if they would have met the better deals for borrowing that I found elsewhere over the years maybe I would have.  Fuck BofA.

Why would you ever bank with BofA in the first place?  Or Chase?  Or WF?

the bigs suck and not even trying to quit 

[G650 14,265]

15 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

What (specific) documents did you provide?  941s, payroll registers, what else? 

Nothing yet, it's just to get into the pipeline. I'm assuming someone will call and ask for something at some point.

[G650 14,265]

15 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Why would you ever bank with BofA in the first place?  Or Chase?  Or WF?

the bigs suck and not even trying to quit 

Depending on how much capital you are dealing with, small town banks may not be able to service your needs.

 

Most of our money is parked in the Private Bank (formerly U.S. Trust), but we have payroll and operating on the retail/commercial side of BoA.

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

Nothing yet, it's just to get into the pipeline. I'm assuming someone will call and ask for something at some point.

Good luck. 

[creeper 98]

23 minutes ago, po elvis said:

How is Frost taking them? I don't see a place on their website for it yet. Just email it in?

My business accounts are with Frost, and, yes, I've just been emailing all supporting docs, etc. to my banker.

[G650 14,265]

Just now, Wally Pryor said:

Good luck. 

Yeah, I know. I'm resigned to staying on them like stink on shit. Fortunately my guy on the private side has us as his only business customer, so while not directly running this for me, is totally available to run herd on the retail guys and pester the shit out of them.

[deadshank 24,653]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

Depending on how much capital you are dealing with, small town banks may not be able to service your needs.

 

Most of our money is parked in the Private Bank (formerly U.S. Trust), but we have payroll and operating on the retail/commercial side of BoA.

I understand the capital requirement part but for payroll and operating accounts no way.  Too many retards and too little actual assistance.  

[G650 14,265]

8 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I understand the capital requirement part but for payroll and operating accounts no way.  Too many retards and too little actual assistance.  

Well then you get into multiple banks and that's no fun. One email and any money I have can be in any account I have.

Edit: My private side team does all the money moving, including weekly payroll, in and out of operating, etc..

Edited April 3, 2020 by G650

[G650 14,265]

BoA had 10,000 applications in the first hour.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/bank-of-americas-small-business-loan-portal-is-up-making-it-the-first-bank-to-accept-applications.html

[Spaulding Smails 1,554]

16 minutes ago, G650 said:

Well then you get into multiple banks and that's no fun. One email and any money I have can be in any account I have.

Edit: My private side team does all the money moving, including weekly payroll, in and out of operating, etc..

Two takeaways from this:

-So glad we're with a mid-sized bank now (Broadway) instead of a behemoth (BBVA) like we were a few years ago.  BBVA was a revolving door of inexperienced "bankers" who didn't know their head from their ass.  Constantly re-telling our story, no proactivity.  Broadway has been a dream to work with.  They're proactive, they know me, and I truly feel like they have our best interest in mind.  They're all about the long-term relationship.  They've been rock stars over the last week through this SBA process.

-So glad we outsource payroll.  I've been able to keep my office focused on operations.  I sent one note to our PEO rep Wednesday.  They're already handling hundreds of other businesses like mine that need the payroll info.  No problem.  We'll have the info to you by EOD Thursday.  Bam.  Perfectly formatted.  All the information I needed.  Would have been a pain to compile that internally.  

[BrazilHorn 6,619]

As long as death results continue to show that vast majority of those that die are either: Old or Obese (or both), along with underlying issues related to being either old or obese, I see real pressure start to mount to open businesses back up.

Would love to see the Freakonomics report on medicare & ss/disability savings related to CV19 deaths among old folks and/or obese people.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

We submitted. We'll see how it goes...

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

41 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Would love to see the Freakonomics report on medicare & ss/disability savings related to CV19 deaths among old folks and/or obese people.

Yeah. I was thinking about all the "shifts" that will occur as a result of this mess. Will the global median age move significantly? Will business' healthcare costs go up/down? Will people take early retirement? Stay longer?

Strange times.

[riloh05 107]

***If you have 100+ employees, to be eligible for the ERC you have to currently be paying employees who are not working.

***If you’re under 100 employees, then you get it for all wages paid, not just those on leave.

If that applies to you here is a simple break down.

Up to $5,000 tax credit per employee who qualifies.

The employee needs to hit $10,000 in wages.

***If the employee makes $5k/month, after 2 months that employee qualifies your business for the $5,000 credit.

***If the employee makes $2k/month. After 5 months that employee qualifies your business for the $5,000 credit.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by riloh05

[troph 24,877]

Only 60k deaths worldwide on this. I do think that number will climb tremendously though. But I think the damage this virus could have done is being managed. Prior world wide pandemics weren’t handled well at all. We know to flatten the curve and while more needs to be done our collective responses are far better this go round. That said this one has a wicked profile. R0 of 2-3, airborne, resilient outside the body, contagious when asymptomatic, long incubation period, and a pretty high fatality rate but not so high as to reduce its chances of spreading. This virus could have or I guess could kill millions upon millions then we have some demographic shifts, but I just don’t see that here. Italy is slowing. Peak in Texas is estimated in early may, WA is slowing, etc.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

 

16 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

***If you have 100+ employees, to be eligible for the ERC you have to currently be paying employees who are not working.

***If you’re under 100 employees, then you get it for all wages paid, not just those on leave.

If that applies to you here is a simple break down.

Up to $5,000 tax credit per employee who qualifies.

The employee needs to hit $10,000 in wages.

***If the employee makes $5k/month, after 2 months that employee qualifies your business for the $5,000 credit.

***If the employee makes $2k/month. After 5 months that employee qualifies your business for the $5,000 credit.

 

 

Am I right that PPP loan/grant participation negates Employee Retention Credit (no double dipping)?

Edited April 3, 2020 by Reagan1k

[riloh05 107]

4 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

 

 

Am I right that PPP loan/grant participation negates Employee Retention Credit (no double dipping)?

Correct. It is one or the other.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

Damn glad my bank got me submitted today. Sounds like a lot of banks aren't as in top of this as mine is.

[G650 14,265]

BoA had 60,000 apps by 2pm

[Chewbacca 7,780]

BoA had 60,000 apps by 2pm

Fucking nuts.

[deadshank 24,653]

I think my banker has jumped out a window.  

No response.

Pick up this turd on Monday.

 

[po elvis 2,076]

The Frost upload system on their website worked very well.

[shakahorn 1,645]

Just FYI, we got an SBA loan ~4 years ago to buy the building we're in.  

Today, Homestreet Bank emailed us today and said "SBA has been mandated to make all SBA borrowers’ loan payments for a period of 6 months starting with payments due after 3/27/2020."

They went on to say that any payments made after 3/27 would be refunded, all you gotta do is ask.  So we asked and they said OK.

https://www.homestreet.com/business/small-business/sba-loans/sba-relief-funding seems poorly worded but indicates that we won't ever have to make that up.

 

[troph 24,877]

word is SBA still working on the lender portal.  so big banks are going to have time to catch up to the little guys.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

PNC isn’t ready yet. Fuck!

[Chewbacca 7,780]

word is SBA still working on the lender portal.  so big banks are going to have time to catch up to the little guys.

Fuck that. My bank is ready, let me in!

[swraith 347]

anyone having an issue with Chase bank not accepting applications?

We do almost all our banking with Chase. Our VP of Finance seems to like them. I have been pestering him all week based on updates I see in this thread. Feedback today from him was...yeah maybe chase could help us next week. Neither Chase nor he seem to be in any hurry and it’s pissing me off as I continue to read updates from Troph.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

We do almost all our banking with Chase. Our VP of Finance seems to like them. I have been pestering him all week based on updates I see in this thread. Feedback today from him was...yeah maybe chase could help us next week. Neither Chase nor he seem to be in any hurry and it’s pissing me off as I continue to read updates from Troph.

Time to bring the urgency to him. And Chase, although they won't care unless you are very big.

[troph 24,877]

We do almost all our banking with Chase. Our VP of Finance seems to like them. I have been pestering him all week based on updates I see in this thread. Feedback today from him was...yeah maybe chase could help us next week. Neither Chase nor he seem to be in any hurry and it’s pissing me off as I continue to read updates from Troph.

Well it’s a fluid situation. We all thought it would tap out today, it didn’t even open up though SBA did officially say today was the day to apply. So we at least make it to Monday. $9.95.

[swraith 347]

Time to bring the urgency to him. And Chase, although they won't care unless you are very big.

I keep poking at him...trying to convey the urgency...but I can’t force him to do anything. We are at the same reporting level but I have a different portfolio of responsibilities. I have been focused on keeping the train rolling the last 3 weeks. I had the joy of getting IT to build a virtual call center in 3 days over 1 weekend right after Trump’s evening speech. Our head of the call center had the joy of retraining his entire staff of agents to work remote on a new call center software platform in less than 1 day.

[ousuxndallas 65]

We do almost all our banking with Chase. Our VP of Finance seems to like them. I have been pestering him all week based on updates I see in this thread. Feedback today from him was...yeah maybe chase could help us next week. Neither Chase nor he seem to be in any hurry and it’s pissing me off as I continue to read updates from Troph.

Of all the banks I dealt with today, Chase was by far the least interested in doing this. Very much dragging their feet.

[UT_OB1 2,224]

39 minutes ago, ousuxndallas said:

1 hour ago, swraith said:

We do almost all our banking with Chase. Our VP of Finance seems to like them. I have been pestering him all week based on updates I see in this thread. Feedback today from him was...yeah maybe chase could help us next week. Neither Chase nor he seem to be in any hurry and it’s pissing me off as I continue to read updates from Troph.

Read more  

Of all the banks I dealt with today, Chase was by far the least interested in doing this. Very much dragging their feet.

I called Chase at 8 AM this morning. “You’re expected wait is... 6... hours to... 9 hours”. Fucking lolz. I was only calling about a mortgage on one of our rentals they purchased. I can wait until next week. Or month. 

[deadshank 24,653]

Amegy's last, refreshed update was 6:30 last night indicating they would be up and running, accepting apps and what not on Friday, April 3.

I checked one last time from my office before I left at 7:20 last night and the 6:30 update was still up.

Just now, the same 6:30 pm 04.03.2020 update is still there, frozen like Han Solo.

They on their game  

 

[A-Tex Devil 2,451]

Just catching up here.  We've been on the front lines of the PPP with our company in helping customers understand rules.  Most customers are backed by institutional investors, so the inability to get clarity on the affiliation rules has been a nightmare.  Even last night's guidance was just more of the same -- go with god if you have a minority institutional owner with any semblance of control on board or stockholder decisions.  

But talking to several customers:

1. Big banks are slow (mostly intentionally) and most banks that are ready won't give to new customers.  If you have been able to open an account at a new bank and they'll let you apply, please post it or PM me.  I'll search up thread as well.  Thanks in advance.

2. Most big banks are going to slow roll this until affiliation rules are clearer (and they may not get clearer).  As a result, self owned business or businesses backed by individuals (as opposed to VC/PE) are going to be accepted more easily.  Banks are likely to diligence your institutional investors as the SBA is probably going to fund and rely on the bank's diligence.  And if application incorrect, Bank is SOL on the guaranty. 

3. Companies with minority investors that have control over board/stockholder decisions that could impute investors' other companies to employee count are engineering rollbacks to those investor rights to get the money.  I am dubious that this is smart -- depends on how badly the company needs the money.  

4.  If you have a 20% investor, make sure they give you written comfort on questions 2, 3 and 5 on the form.  We've already got an issue where an angel investor that had more than 20% holding had a felony arrest for A&B that is still in process (probably will get pleaded down, but screws the company).  That fucks the company.

 

[RollLeft 5,045]

8 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Just catching up here.  We've been on the front lines of the PPP with our company in helping customers understand rules.  Most customers are backed by institutional investors, so the inability to get clarity on the affiliation rules has been a nightmare.  Even last night's guidance was just more of the same -- go with god if you have a minority institutional owner with any semblance of control on board or stockholder decisions.  

But talking to several customers:

1. Big banks are slow (mostly intentionally) and most banks that are ready won't give to new customers.  If you have been able to open an account at a new bank and they'll let you apply, please post it or PM me.  I'll search up thread as well.  Thanks in advance.

2. Most big banks are going to slow roll this until affiliation rules are clearer (and they may not get clearer).  As a result, self owned business or businesses backed by individuals (as opposed to VC/PE) are going to be accepted more easily.  Banks are likely to diligence your institutional investors as the SBA is probably going to fund and rely on the bank's diligence.  And if application incorrect, Bank is SOL on the guaranty. 

3. Companies with minority investors that have control over board/stockholder decisions that could impute investors' other companies to employee count are engineering rollbacks to those investor rights to get the money.  I am dubious that this is smart -- depends on how badly the company needs the money.  

4.  If you have a 20% investor, make sure they give you written comfort on questions 2, 3 and 5 on the form.  We've already got an issue where an angel investor that had more than 20% holding had a felony arrest for A&B that is still in process (probably will get pleaded down, but screws the company).  That fucks the company.

 

Bankers:

We have options to file with Chase and several community banks.

At the end of the day aren't the big banks still using their algorithm/software, as their front line, to accept or deny applications?  I get its SBA, backed, but wouldn't this loan like most others, for small business, be more likely approved at a bank that is non algorithm/software screened which more often than not is a small bank?  

 

[troph 24,877]

SBA lender portal is open. We’ve got two community banks working lawyer hours this weekend to get them in before Monday.

[Brew 3,049]

Talked to first client that was funded on the PPP application. Seems odd that it would be through already, but they have the money.

[troph 24,877]

Talked to first client that was funded on the PPP application. Seems odd that it would be through already, but they have the money.

Bad ass

[Hagbard Celine 10,876]

Funded overnight on a Friday night?  No way this process is automated to that degree this quickly.  There must be a huge private workforce behind the scenes.  Booz Allen?  The banks?  Regardless, good luck to everyone.  This is the money that will shore up the economy for 6 more weeks.

[Brew 3,049]

28 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Funded overnight on a Friday night?  No way this process is automated to that degree this quickly.  There must be a huge private workforce behind the scenes.  Booz Allen?  The banks?  Regardless, good luck to everyone.  This is the money that will shore up the economy for 6 more weeks.

From talking to my bankers this morning, it’s pretty much a rubber stamp process on the smaller ones. This client was smaller and the loan was in the $50k range. Said the paperwork was nothing much.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,733]

are businesses applying for loan amounts larger than the 2.5x figures?