Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,732]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

In the “Insurance Companies are shitbags” category:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/coronavirus-restaurant-closures-are-devastating-we-thought-we-had-insurance-ncna1184521?fbclid=IwAR3ACymgQIiIEKNIKZ9dsEdE-ieFTeMOInt1IeBNp61c7KfVAOoMvfhu3NM

 

Denying government interruption claims on insurance payouts. 
 

 

I'm glad I sold out a few years ago as dealing with those calls would be awful.  

[Travo 15]

Just got a call from our banker. We got approved under the initial PPP funding, were assigned a control # from the SBA. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Travo

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Money is fungible.  Those aren't SBA dollars.  They're yours once they go in your bank account.  Doesn't matter if you co-mingle or not.  You're still going to have to report on how you spent the money.  A copy of a bank statement is not going to be sufficient.

 

And if your record keeping is so bad that you can't account for salaries, benefits and what the SBA deems to be utilities, you need to hire someone who can do that properly for you.

Correct answer.   It's easy record keeping. 

[TexMex Horn 68]

Thanks to my new banker friend in South Texas. Funded today. Payroll will be met for the next few cycles

 

Hook'em

[VABuckeye 2,472]

That guy is awesome.  I even gave him the one and only Hook 'Em of my life.

[Iceman 2,699]

My Sis-in-law owns a small business and they got approved yesterday.  They were explaining to their workers how they would be protecting their pay at the average of what they had earned the past 6 months.  One employee asked for a raise because they said it wasn't enough.

I have a few words, but in that room, I'd have no words.  In these days and times, someone's still gotta pull that shit...they should just get cunt-punted right there in front of everyone.

[G650 14,249]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

I have a few words, but in that room, I'd have no words.  In these days and times, someone's still gotta pull that shit...they should just get cunt-punted right there in front of everyone.

I mean, there's always a couple in every group, but by and large most people are very nervous and very thankful to be employed right now.

[pacman 7,355]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

My Sis-in-law owns a small business and they got approved yesterday.  They were explaining to their workers how they would be protecting their pay at the average of what they had earned the past 6 months.  One employee asked for a raise because they said it wasn't enough.

I have a few words, but in that room, I'd have no words.  In these days and times, someone's still gotta pull that shit...they should just get cunt-punted right there in front of everyone.

"You are so right. You are fired. Everybody else, you can split up what they were to be paid as a raise."

[MaclovioBrown 100]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

My Sis-in-law owns a small business and they got approved yesterday.  They were explaining to their workers how they would be protecting their pay at the average of what they had earned the past 6 months.  One employee asked for a raise because they said it wasn't enough.

I have a few words, but in that room, I'd have no words.  In these days and times, someone's still gotta pull that shit...they should just get cunt-punted right there in front of everyone.

That sounds like an unreplaced position well worth 1% over 24 months

[G650 14,249]

2 minutes ago, MaclovioBrown said:

That sounds like an unreplaced position well worth 1% over 24 months

Damn right

[troph 24,783]

Back to the separate account idea - we have told all clients to run a separate account. Most cases you should not have to trace funds. We don’t know yet with the SBA. There are areas of the law where tracing is required like divorces on community and separate property and financial crimes. Those are exceptions to the idea that money is fungible. Since we don’t know what the SBA wants, our advice has been establish a brand new account.

That will make documentation simple, it also avoids unwanted ACH and auto payments as well.

If it was dismissed earlier I hope that taken from my posts because I think a separate account is important here.

[G650 14,249]

I just can't see any possible scenario it could be an issue.

[Chewbacca 7,771]

I just can't see any possible scenario it could be an issue.

Yeah. I'm not opening a separate account for this.

[troph 24,783]

I just can't see any possible scenario it could be an issue.

It shouldn’t. But we’re talking about the federal government. The amount of BS that’s already come out of this should warrant conservatism.

[RollLeft 5,044]

7 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Why?  

 

I'm a CPA and have been running small businesses (first for others, now for myself) for over 20 years.  Unless you're talking about having multiple entities (in which case you absolutely need separate accounts), or unless you're talking about lawyers who are required to physically keep retainers separate from operating funds, I see no reason to have more accounts that absolutely necessary.  

My brother in law is a doctor but i don't ask that mfer (podiatrist) shit about my stool or heart health.  

You see no reason or you see no reasons for you?  notsureifserious.gif

There are many reasons. 

Overdraft/Fraud-  To start, employees, vendors or anyone don't need your operating account number.  A separate payroll or payable account is a basic cash and fraud management tool.  If you have had the good fortune, in 20 years, of having no check overdrafts or fraud than you are more the exception. 

Disruption of banking-  You can easily close down a payroll account with no need to notify customers but not so with an operating account.  If that is the account set up for auto ach funding or other auto transactions we have to notify them and hope they can make the adjustment without delay.    On the flip side I would never give the IRS, the state or vendors my operating account number when you pay taxes and or bills.  Those people make mistakes, often.  They are more likely to erroneously debit/draft funds from your accounts than someone forging a check.  Frozen accounts happen all the time due to errors for multiple reasons.  Why run the risk with the operating?    

Privacy- I want to be able to provide a bank statement to insurance companies or bookkeeper regarding payroll for a reconciliation without them being able to see all my deposits and or expenses.  Who and when we are paid or when we pay is nobody's business.  Sometimes we also separate executive payroll.  Privacy is important for morale.  Separation of duties is still important with the smallest of businesses.  Also if you use ADP then you have a second account.  

Bank Relationships- We often advise clients to have a bank account where there largest customers bank.  Not only does this sometimes help with cash availability as needed but our client develops a positive relationship by virtue of doing business with the larger customer's bank.  Lines of credit more easily come in to play. 

Those are just a few reasons.  Multiple bank accounts and multiple banks isn't harder just a bit more work.  Simplicity on the front end rarely affords things to go smoother when things goes wrong due to no fault of your own.      

[G650 14,249]

I mean, I already have a payroll account. I'm talking about an SBA account.

 

Edit: And the customer thing is strange, we are much larger than any customer we have.

Edited April 16, 2020 by G650

[Chewbacca 7,771]

My brother in law is a doctor but i don't ask that mfer (podiatrist) shit about my stool or heart health.  
You see no reason or you see no reasons for you?  notsureifserious.gif
There are many reasons. 
Overdraft/Fraud-  To start, employees, vendors or anyone don't need your operating account number.  A separate payroll or payable account is a basic cash and fraud management tool.  If you have had the good fortune, in 20 years, of having no check overdrafts or fraud than you are more the exception. 
Disruption of banking-  You can easily close down a payroll account with no need to notify customers but not so with an operating account.  If that is the account set up for auto ach funding or other auto transactions we have to notify them and hope they can make the adjustment without delay.    On the flip side I would never give the IRS, the state or vendors my operating account number when you pay taxes and or bills.  Those people make mistakes, often.  They are more likely to erroneously debit/draft funds from your accounts than someone forging a check.  Frozen accounts happen all the time due to errors for multiple reasons.  Why run the risk with the operating?    
Privacy- I want to be able to provide a bank statement to insurance companies or bookkeeper regarding payroll for a reconciliation without them being able to see all my deposits and or expenses.  Who and when we are paid or when we pay is nobody's business.  Sometimes we also separate executive payroll.  Privacy is important for morale.  Separation of duties is still important with the smallest of businesses.  Also if you use ADP then you have a second account.  
Bank Relationships- We often advise clients to have a bank account where there largest customers bank.  Not only does this sometimes help with cash availability as needed but our client develops a positive relationship by virtue of doing business with the larger customer's bank.  Lines of credit more easily come in to play. 
Those are just a few reasons.  Multiple bank accounts and multiple banks isn't harder just a bit more work.  Simplicity on the front end rarely affords things to go smoother when things goes wrong due to no fault of your own.      

You do you. Better controls and processes would alleviate your concerns. Or you can just keep opening bank accounts.

[BillyGoatHill 4,312]

No mama, no papa, No Uncle Sam. Even though applying on the 3rd, No PPP, No stimulus checks either. Fuck this BS. 

[VABuckeye 2,472]

I’m tiny so we opened an account with MaclovioBrown’s bank for the PPP funds.  If possible we’d like to establish a relationship because he stepped in at a time of need. 

[Texaus 377]

Multiple bank accounts sounds like a huge pain in the ass and unnecessary work/expense. 10 bank statements, or one, shouldn’t mean a shit. We pay for enterprise level accounting software for a reason.

 

[MaclovioBrown 100]

12 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I’m tiny so we opened an account with MaclovioBrown’s bank for the PPP funds.  If possible we’d like to establish a relationship because he stepped in at a time of need. 

We family now Buckeye. Cabo gonna take you on your first thermal pig hunt. 

[Brew 3,049]

Multiple bank accounts for this isn’t that big a deal. Run your payroll like normal and then make a transfer each week / every two weeks to cover it from the SBA account. File the payroll summary with the transfer and you’re done. Write rent/utility checks off the SBA accounts for two months and that’s covered. Some smaller banks are requiring it and that’s an easy way to handle it without screwing up your system. We’re rolling it to our operating account as I don’t think it’s necessary, but others do so whatever.

As far as normal operations, we run a mid 8 figure operation with one operating bank account and one sweep account for locations to make deposits into that sweep to the operations. It’s been that way since we were much smaller and it’s not a big deal. More bank accounts mean more controls, more reconciliations, etc. I’ve had zero issues with tax authorities because I pay my taxes. My bookkeeper knows what we have because she keeps our entire books. What’s to hide? I’m not sure why I would need an account where my customers bank, everything is electronic now. I could keep going, but the point is you can over complicate the hell out of stuff with limited tangible benefit.

[G650 14,249]

6 minutes ago, Brew said:

I’ve had zero issues with tax authorities because I pay my taxes

I can say my setup went through a full IRS audit 20 years ago with flying colors. They haven't thought about bothering me since.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

57 minutes ago, MaclovioBrown said:

We family now Buckeye. Cabo gonna take you on your first thermal pig hunt. 

I think I’m down?  Will I survive this?   Can we end up in Mexico drinking tequila?  Cause I fucking love tequila. 

[Doze 1,322]

5 hours ago, G650 said:

I mean, there's always a couple in every group, but by and large most people are very nervous and very thankful to be employed right now.

Not true.  With the unemployment plus the extra $600/week.....a lot of people want laid off.  They can make more sitting at home.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Very true.  I offered work to someone yesterday and he turned me down to sit at home and draw unemployment. 
 

ETA:  he’s a former employee who was furloughed by his current employer. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by VABuckeye

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

15 hours ago, Iceman said:

One employee asked for a raise because they said it wasn't enough.

I'm guessing that once the 8 weeks of "free pay" runs out, said employee will be #1 on the furlough list. 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

12 hours ago, troph said:

It shouldn’t. But we’re talking about the federal government. The amount of BS that’s already come out of this should warrant conservatism.

Exactly my thought. There's no downside to doing it. Why risk it when it comes to the Government?

[deadshank 24,652]

15 hours ago, Iceman said:

My Sis-in-law owns a small business and they got approved yesterday.  They were explaining to their workers how they would be protecting their pay at the average of what they had earned the past 6 months.  One employee asked for a raise because they said it wasn't enough.

I have a few words, but in that room, I'd have no words.  In these days and times, someone's still gotta pull that shit...they should just get cunt-punted right there in front of everyone.

C suite types have no problem with that employee's chutzpah 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

4 minutes ago, deadshank said:

C suite types have no problem with that employee's chutzpah 

[deadshank 24,652]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Dead serious. C suiters would / will somehow give themselves more money from a government handout.  They did it last time there was a bail out. I'm saying they would respect the play for more money but would also deny the lowly hourly wage earner. 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Just now, deadshank said:

Dead serious. C suiters would / will somehow give themselves more money from a government handout.  They did it last time there was a bail out. I'm saying they would respect the play for more money but would also deny the lowly hourly wage earner. 

This is a completely different "bailout" than the last shitshow (No CR).

75% MUST be spent on employees and the balance can ONLY pay for utilities (and some minor interest). No C-suiters are going to benefit from this, in fact, many of us are taking pay cuts to make sure our business survives. 

[Chet Steadman 940]

20 hours ago, MaclovioBrown said:

$349B PPP limit hit. Sorry to all of you we weren’t able to secure a loan number for. To those locked in CaboWabo is racing through the funding phase. 
Hopefully Feds can get their shit together before the next round. Our District 15 rep. says likely the week of May 4. 
 

FWIW don’t let my noob status fool you. I was BoogityBoy on HF and Shaggy in the past. Think the shagster who crashed his plane and posted a video. 

Dang, never put together you were the same poster.  That video was insane.  

Question for you -or anyone for that matter- is it an absolute requirement for self-employed/independent contractors to include their 2019 return (line 31) when filing for the PPP?  My new bank (who I actually and enjoy and appears to have their shit together unlike most,) is telling me I have to have this in order to file.  However I won’t have some of my K1s for at least the next few weeks at the earliest so there’s likely no way for my accountant to finalize the documentation needed in order to apply for the relief. 

Is this right or am I missing something?

[Lat22 4,010]

10 hours ago, Doze said:

Not true.  With the unemployment plus the extra $600/week.....a lot of people want laid off.  They can make more sitting at home.

[Brew 3,049]

1 minute ago, Chet Steadman said:

Dang, never put together you were the same poster.  That video was insane.  

Question for you -or anyone for that matter- is it an absolute requirement for self-employed/independent contractors to include their 2019 return (line 31) when filing for the PPP?  My new bank (who I actually and enjoy and appears to have their shit together unlike most,) is telling me I have to have this in order to file.  However I won’t have some of my K1s for at least the next few weeks at the earliest so there’s likely no way for my accountant to finalize the documentation needed in order to apply for the relief. 

Is this right or am I missing something?

Banks we dealt with just wanted Schedule C’s if you were filing as self-employed. For those returns that weren’t completed, we sent them the Schedule C and they didn’t ask for anything else. If you’re dealing with a completely new bank, they are going to want the return for purposes of opening a loan but 2018 should work for that.

[Brew 3,049]

10 hours ago, Doze said:

Not true.  With the unemployment plus the extra $600/week.....a lot of people want laid off.  They can make more sitting at home.

Historically you have had to let the state know when a lay-off/furlough is ended and they lose the benefit of they don’t come back. Also if a job is available, they lose the benefit. Who knows how this one will work, because the states are already way behind. Some states may handle it different also.

[Iceman 2,699]

2 hours ago, deadshank said:

C suite types have no problem with that employee's chutzpah 

Small business owners.  She and her co-owner haven’t taken a check in 3 weeks.  
 

Well played if you were joking, but WTF if you were serious.

[Eastwood 4,394]

1 hour ago, Chet Steadman said:

Dang, never put together you were the same poster.  That video was insane.  

Question for you -or anyone for that matter- is it an absolute requirement for self-employed/independent contractors to include their 2019 return (line 31) when filing for the PPP?  My new bank (who I actually and enjoy and appears to have their shit together unlike most,) is telling me I have to have this in order to file.  However I won’t have some of my K1s for at least the next few weeks at the earliest so there’s likely no way for my accountant to finalize the documentation needed in order to apply for the relief. 

Is this right or am I missing something?

 

1 hour ago, Brew said:

Banks we dealt with just wanted Schedule C’s if you were filing as self-employed. For those returns that weren’t completed, we sent them the Schedule C and they didn’t ask for anything else. If you’re dealing with a completely new bank, they are going to want the return for purposes of opening a loan but 2018 should work for that.

Brew's experience was the same as mine. Just asked for Schedule C and nothing more.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

You got through as self-employed?  Good for you man because those poor people really got left out in the lurch.  It would be nice if there was a separate allocation for self-employed and 1099 only in the next round so they don't get hosed again.

[troph 24,783]

okay so change in direction...

what is the collective thinking on when this starts to move back in the right direction?  are the stay home orders going to be lifted in the next few weeks or extended?  what's the thought on the impact of your business?  general ramblings welcome and preferred. my current areas of personal interest are residential real estate (Austin), not sure what the summer will look like, not sure what will happen in the central Austin neighborhoods that have defied logic (actually they are consistent - supply and demand is so far out of whack prices climb at tremendous rates), no longer interested in commercial real estate in Austin, I fear a long hangover there.  lending markets seem like they have locked up quite a bit too.  Supply chain from China, leisure businesses like day spas and resort spas.  we are dependent upon China for supplies and the addiction to feel good treatments these companies provide.  We think that industry (which barely saw a dip in 08-10) is very resilient.  I hope this time around too. Curious about restaurants, events, etc.  we are thinking September to begin the rebuild process.  we think the summer is shot. new markets like hemp? interested to see how that plays out.  investment community, at least the smaller players (high net worth individuals as opposed to institutional money) has retreated almost entirely to the sidelines it seems.  curious when that changes.  unemployment, will we see a stop to the steep rise?  what's your thinking on all of this, any of this, or what concerns you specifically?

Edited April 17, 2020 by troph

[VABuckeye 2,472]

I'm interested to see if there is a shift in manufacturing away from China.  Honestly, I think it's a foregone conclusion and if our neighbors to the south can get their shit together they stand to gain the most.

[Eastwood 4,394]

16 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

You got through as self-employed?  Good for you man because those poor people really got left out in the lurch.  It would be nice if there was a separate allocation for self-employed and 1099 only in the next round so they don't get hosed again.

No, I didn't get in, but I did get through the application process. I'm a single member LLC and pay my personal account from the business account after expenses, so it is insanely easy to show salary.

Speaking of, if any of you self-employed folks need help creating an entity, I fully recommend Full Skope, LLC. A Surly member is a part of that and it was a smooth process.

[deadshank 24,652]

2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

This is a completely different "bailout" than the last shitshow (No CR).

75% MUST be spent on employees and the balance can ONLY pay for utilities (and some minor interest). No C-suiters are going to benefit from this, in fact, many of us are taking pay cuts to make sure our business survives. 

Understood.   Won’t stop them from trying. I own two businesses.  Im prepared to cut back my pay, as well.  

There will be others involved in monkey business.  

[deadshank 24,652]

42 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Small business owners.  She and her co-owner haven’t taken a check in 3 weeks.  
 

Well played if you were joking, but WTF if you were serious.

I’m not talking about small business owners.  I’m talking about the oily C suite types that are always scheming.   You know plays will he made to line their own pockets.   

I feel for your SIL and her business partner.   They’re trying to do right.  

 

[Iceman 2,699]

4 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I’m not talking about small business owners.  I’m talking about the oily C suite types that are always scheming.   You know plays will he made to line their own pockets.   

I feel for your SIL and her business partner.   They’re trying to do right.  

 

You quoted my post directly describing their situation with regard to the federal moneys being approved for their SBA loan...???

[Incredulity 11,664]

While this can be nitpicked and parsed to death I think there is a significant  demand "surge" that happens in the near term(first 30 days from re-open), even with phased reopening, followed by fits and starts brought on by a multitude of factors including bankruptcies, government inefficiency, and lags in supply chain restarts.

[orange dream 1,247]

Ok, I have some questions about where we go from here.  The table below is information pulled from the TX Dept of Health  COVID-19 dashboard.

I know we have all been staying at home, staying healthy, flattening the curve, etc. but I am astonished at how low these numbers are.  What is your guess of what percent of the picture this really represents. 20% / 50% / 80% ?  I'm sure these are artificially low because of the lack of testing, limits of testing to those in risk groups or with severe symptoms, etc. but I don't have a good feel for how low.  Are 70% of the people currently infected going to still die which will drastically alter the fatality rates?

The highest infection rate in a county is basically a tenth of a percent in Galveston County and fatality rates of total population are between 1 and 2 thousandths of a percent of total area population.  Multiply those numbers by 10 or even 100 and certainly it represents a tragic loss of life but at some point you reconcile that versus a longstanding death rate of the US population of around 0.9% annually.  Am I really terrible at math?  Are we amazing at flattening the curve? What's the go forward plan.  Are entire schools closed for 2 or 3 weeks each time a kid is sick or does a classroom monitor for symptoms if someone gets sick but keeps operating?  Same question for offices, stores, restaurants (complete shutdown if someone is infected)?

For those of you who own / manage businesses, if working from home has been successful and is viable for your business model do you encourage it beyond the government directive or is everyone "ordered" back to the office at the first opportunity? Troph's questions about commercial real estate I think hangs in the balance.

https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83

County cases deaths population   infection rate fatality rate of those infected fatality rate of population Travis                977 17      1,274,000   0.077% 1.74% 0.0013% Williamson                128 4          590,551   0.022% 3.13% 0.0007% Hays                109 1          230,191   0.047% 0.92% 0.0004% Austin Metro Area            1,214 22      2,094,742   0.058% 1.81% 0.0011%                 Dallas            1,986 43      2,636,000   0.075% 2.17% 0.0016% Tarrant                990 30      2,103,000   0.047% 3.03% 0.0014% Denton                547 14          887,207   0.062% 2.56% 0.0016% Collin                494 10      1,035,000   0.048% 2.02% 0.0010% DFW Metro Area            4,017 97      6,661,207   0.060% 2.41% 0.0015%                 Harris            4,097 58      4,713,000   0.087% 1.42% 0.0012% Ft. Bend                627 15          811,688   0.077% 2.39% 0.0018% Montgomery                331 6          607,391   0.054% 1.81% 0.0010% Brazoria                272 3          374,264   0.073% 1.10% 0.0008% Galveston                401 13          342,139   0.117% 3.24% 0.0038% Houston Metro Area            5,728 95      6,848,482   0.084% 1.66% 0.0014%                 COMBINED TOTAL          10,959 214    15,604,431   0.070% 1.95% 0.0014%

[closetojumping 62,600]

3 hours ago, deadshank said:

Dead serious. C suiters would / will somehow give themselves more money from a government handout.  They did it last time there was a bail out. I'm saying they would respect the play for more money but would also deny the lowly hourly wage earner. 

We're talking about money, and something of a rubber stamp, so I have no doubt that there will be corruption. That said, my entire leadership team, and those at every org for whom I advise or sit on the board, took paycuts and have done whatever they could to retain their people, or as many as they could. I think you're more referring to what we all witnessed last time with the large companies, banks, insurance entities and so forth, and for sure I expect to see the same kind of bullshit from them. I think the stakes and interests are different at the SMB and start-up levels, where skin in the game changes everything.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

14 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

While this can be nitpicked and parsed to death I think there is a significant  demand "surge" that happens in the near term(first 30 days from re-open), even with phased reopening, followed by fits and starts brought on by a multitude of factors including bankruptcies, government inefficiency, and lags in supply chain restarts.

I've done $40k in new business this week.  That's a lot for a little data center cabling and infrastructure company.

[pacman 7,355]

26 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I’m not talking about small business owners.  I’m talking about the oily C suite types that are always scheming.   You know plays will he made to line their own pockets.   

I feel for your SIL and her business partner.   They’re trying to do right.  

 

Yeah, in reference to this funding, you certainly were off the mark but I suspected you were talking about the larger businesses. On that front, I agree.

 

In fact, the snall business funding had stipulations that the Treasury refused to play on its funding that it will dole out, which can be leveraged up to $5T.

It's an interesting concept to put more restrictions on smaller businesses than the mid-size to larger businesses.