Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

My app- which was in the Monday after the first round was announced- still hasn’t been submitted by prosperity. I’m less than happy about that but resigned to not getting my money. Oh well. Anyway- congrats to all who got it. The owner of my other company got his money to the tune of $650k and I think about 45k should find its way to me, so I guess I can’t complain too much- but damn it man- I should have been in the middle of the line of the second wave. 

[MaclovioBrown 100]

1 hour ago, RollLeft said:

Big shout out to @MaclovioBrown and his team who on Monday showed the big banks how it's done.  He helped a client of mine who is very grateful for the help their big bank couldn't provide.  Thank you sir and much love, no homo.  

The pleasure is ours. It has been a really nice experience being able to work with folks outside our trade area. Maybe you can convince Blacklab to make an NSAA exception for my low post count as MB. Should have kept BoogityBoy handle. 

[blacklab 11,951]

done

Thanks for all your help. Trying to convince my business partner to move our accounts over, not sure if I'm going to be able to do it.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

2 hours ago, cabowabo said:

3 hours ago, RollLeft said:

Big shout out to [mention=5091]MaclovioBrown[/mention] and his team who on Monday showed the big banks how it's done.  He helped a client of mine who is very grateful for the help their big bank couldn't provide.  Thank you sir and much love, no homo.  

We've done loans for a few of you bitches and have not had a single tit pic sent to us. I ain't gonna lie.... I'm a little disappointed.

I’m personally coming down for that hunt.  And tequila. 

[cabowabo 4,514]

I’m personally coming down for that hunt.  And tequila. 

This was the scene 30 mins ago at our hog feeder. Hopefully I'll be adding a video to the Night Vision Fanatics Thread late tomorrow.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,740]

Wife, who is an IC, received EIDL money. Me, who has an LLC, has not.
I’m uphauled.

[McFly 606]

On 5/1/2020 at 9:29 AM, Pyramid said:

My company received notice last night from Chase that its SBA PPP loan was approved and will be funded in three days.  For those that are stuck in the black hole of Chase, there may be light at the end of the tunnel.   

Same here from Chase. Loan deposited this morning. Email said they sent in 220k apps for approval. 

[pacman 7,371]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/02/business/economy/loans-coronavirus-small-business.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200503&instance_id=18186&nl=the-morning&regi_id=127539646&segment_id=26501&te=1&user_id=6b0f5fe4b57c5d7b91f45b4a19b5599b

 

The government has “made this so hard to use,” he said. “It starts to feel like a lose-lose situation.”

 

I mean, whats the worst thing that can happen? You get a 1% interest loan?

[Wally Pryor 5,263]

Saw this in a Forbes article from a couple days ago:

"There are other eligible uses for your PPP loan, including costs related to funding healthcare benefits and insurance premiums, and interest on debt that you’ve incurred before February 15, 2020. These costs are not forgivable, however."

Someone restore my sanity as I'm 99% sure forgivable payroll costs are the same as that allowed under the overall CARES definition.   So wages, health insurance and 401K match are under the forgiveness umbrella. 

[ousuxndallas 65]

Saw this in a Forbes article from a couple days ago:
"There are other eligible uses for your PPP loan, including costs related to funding healthcare benefits and insurance premiums, and interest on debt that you’ve incurred before February 15, 2020. These costs are not forgivable, however."
Someone restore my sanity as I'm 99% sure forgivable payroll costs are the same as that allowed under the overall CARES definition.   So wages, health insurance and 401K match are under the forgiveness umbrella. 

They are not. They are included when calculating the eligible loan amount, but that's it.

[Wally Pryor 5,263]

They are included in the forgiveness piece.  I had to go back and (re)read section 1106 of the actual Act.   In it, the term "payroll costs" for forgiveness has the same meaning assigned in section 1102 of the Act (wages, bonuses, group healthcare, retirement benefits).

Would make no sense for them to have one definition of payroll for inclusion in the loan calc and a diluted definition of the same for forgiveness purposes. 

[troph 24,906]

Payroll costs is the operative term for the loan amount what you can spend and what’s forgiven and healthcare benefits is in the definition of payroll costs. There is a spot where the statute says you can spend on payroll costs and benefits and to me that’s a superfluous statement due to a hastily drafted bill. Unless the SBA rules come out and say otherwise then health care benefits are included

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

is there any reason our CPA should be telling us that if we don't spend at least 75% of our PPP funds on payroll & payroll related items that none of the loan will be forgiveable?

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Other than the fact that he's giving out ultra-conservative advice, no.  Seems like he's just making sure his ass is fully covered.

[BayouBill 835]

It's all piss

[Wally Pryor 5,263]

22 minutes ago, troph said:

Payroll costs is the operative term for the loan amount what you can spend and what’s forgiven and healthcare benefits is in the definition of payroll costs. There is a spot where the statute says you can spend on payroll costs and benefits and to me that’s a superfluous statement due to a hastily drafted bill. Unless the SBA rules come out and say otherwise then health care benefits are included

Yes, and the other pieces (401K, etc).

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

26 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

is there any reason our CPA should be telling us that if we don't spend at least 75% of our PPP funds on payroll & payroll related items that none of the loan will be forgiveable?

Time to get a new CPA. This guy is dumb.

 

[Wally Pryor 5,263]

39 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

is there any reason our CPA should be telling us that if we don't spend at least 75% of our PPP funds on payroll & payroll related items that none of the loan will be forgiveable?

I would question whether he's really a CPA.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,740]

IC buddy of mine got funded today.  

[troph 24,906]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

is there any reason our CPA should be telling us that if we don't spend at least 75% of our PPP funds on payroll & payroll related items that none of the loan will be forgiveable?

that's not the advice we are giving.  we are saying the non-payroll piece will be kicked out to the extent needed to achieve a 75/25 ratio.  but even some bank loan documents are saying what your CPA is saying.  

Edited May 4, 2020 by troph

[troph 24,906]

1 hour ago, Wally Pryor said:

Yes, and the other pieces (401K, etc).

yes

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

 

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

Other than the fact that he's giving out ultra-conservative advice, no.  Seems like he's just making sure his ass is fully covered.

this seems reasonable.

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Time to get a new CPA. This guy is dumb.

 

this doesn't

1 hour ago, Wally Pryor said:

I would question whether he's really a CPA.

nor this.

37 minutes ago, troph said:

that's not the advice we are giving.  we are saying the non-payroll piece will be kicked out to the extent needed to achieve a 75/25 ratio.  but even some bank loan documents are saying what your CPA is saying.  

then there is this.

what a fucking mess all of this is.

Edited May 4, 2020 by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

[shakahorn 1,645]

I seem to remember this being discussed earlier in the thread, but things seem to be changing every day, so throwing this out now.

Right after the 2nd round of funding was approved for PPP, we submitted an app to Wells.  So like 3-4 weeks ago.

Wells go silent, just sending us the same form email every day until last Friday.

Last Weds, we attempt to apply with another, smaller bank "community development bank" by their own description.  We fully disclose that we have a pending app with Wells. They are great with respect to customer service.  Their online app is kinda...shitty...so we have to email in a bunch of docs that were supposed to be uploaded, skip certain parts of the online app, etc.

New bank comes back on Thu and says they cannot send in our request because SBA has already assigned an "e tran" number which prevents us from applying with any other institution.

On Saturday, we get an email from Wells with an actual loan doc for the amount calculated in the initial Wells app.  We fill out and submit, sign via docusign.

Anyone have any idea where we really stand?

 

 

[G650 14,277]

You are submitted if you have SBA number

[VABuckeye 2,472]

1 hour ago, shakahorn said:

I seem to remember this being discussed earlier in the thread, but things seem to be changing every day, so throwing this out now.

Right after the 2nd round of funding was approved for PPP, we submitted an app to Wells.  So like 3-4 weeks ago.

Wells go silent, just sending us the same form email every day until last Friday.

Last Weds, we attempt to apply with another, smaller bank "community development bank" by their own description.  We fully disclose that we have a pending app with Wells. They are great with respect to customer service.  Their online app is kinda...shitty...so we have to email in a bunch of docs that were supposed to be uploaded, skip certain parts of the online app, etc.

New bank comes back on Thu and says they cannot send in our request because SBA has already assigned an "e tran" number which prevents us from applying with any other institution.

On Saturday, we get an email from Wells with an actual loan doc for the amount calculated in the initial Wells app.  We fill out and submit, sign via docusign.

Anyone have any idea where we really stand?

 

 

Your loan has been underwritten and approved by the bank and subsequently submitted to the SBA for an SBA loan number.  If you've docusigned you also have an SBA loan guarantee and you're just waiting for funds to hit your bak.

The second round of funding was approved less than two weeks ago.  Trump signed it on Friday, APril 24th.  Congratulations and welcome to the club.  It was a big sigh of relief for us.

[shakahorn 1,645]

11 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Your loan has been underwritten and approved by the bank and subsequently submitted to the SBA for an SBA loan number.  If you've docusigned you also have an SBA loan guarantee and you're just waiting for funds to hit your bak.

The second round of funding was approved less than two weeks ago.  Trump signed it on Friday, APril 24th.  Congratulations and welcome to the club.  It was a big sigh of relief for us.

Thanks!  That was the confusing part which I neglected to include in my post.  Neither the new bank nor Wells made any mention of an SBA number or an SBA loan number, which I remember from upthread.  Just the "e tran" number which prevented us from applying with another bank.  Meanwhile, we have colleagues who are applying to 2 or 3 banks (including Wells) without being stopped.

You know all the days just seem the same to me.  Last week, 2 weeks ago, last month, all seem like a year ago

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

Just got a phone call tonight and we got approved for a loan to the tune of $61,500- which was the max I was hoping for. A reasonable calculation (we started on January 29th) could have been anywhere from $7,000 to $61,500. We got the full monty. 

I am so freaking pumped. 

Well/ they say we got it all. It was approved. Allegedly documents signed Wednesday and then money whenever it gets funded. I get the sense there’s no take backs on this now.  

Whooooooo Hoooooo. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

Question- we are going to hire 2 new people (full time) that weren’t on the initial payroll- will pay toward them be counted in the 75% that needs to go to payroll?  I can’t see why it wouldn’t but who knows. 

Second follow up question- it’s an PLLC and I make a salary (very small) and production (slightly larger- but combined well under the 100k a year)- will this count toward the 75% that’s forgiveable? 

[hornian 5,223]

My 2nd Entity (Law Firm) got a small EIDL last week, and just singed the promissory note for our PPP and the funds are already pending this week. That's nice. 

Now the goal is to get 100% of it forgiven. I'm in the same boat as Wulaw - want to actually bring on some new staff - and I'm wondering if what we pay them over the next 8 weeks is forgivable, even though they weren't on staff at the time this all started. 

[pacman 7,371]

https://www.anthonylawllc.com/blog/ppp-question-answered-do-new-employee-wages-qualify-for-payroll-protection-program-forgiveness

 

Yes on new employees, according to here....

[Brew 3,049]

14 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

is there any reason our CPA should be telling us that if we don't spend at least 75% of our PPP funds on payroll & payroll related items that none of the loan will be forgiveable?

Forgiveness is reduced dollar for dollar for employees that make less than 75% of the prior quarters wages. It is employee by employee. It’s more complicated but hopefully you get the picture. None being forgivable is a stretch, but you would lose forgiveness if their was a pay/workforce reduction. Most are saying spend 75% on wages for simplicity in the calculation.

[MrBig 5,440]

I know a business that just got their PPP funding but they also made their employees keep reduced hours and sign up for the Shared Work Program from TWC. Is this allowed?

Seems like this is a way to pay the employees the least amount possible, supplement their employee income with the Shared Work Program Covid benefits, and the business gets to put as much PPP money as they can in their savings for a rainy day. 

[StruggleBus 3,922]

My PPP loan was funded today. It will cover roughly one pay period for us, since we’ve grown extensively since 2019 (we’re a startup). 
 

I did reduce hours in late March for our staff as a precaution with everything going on. I’m confused as shit if I’ll be on the hook for this or if it will be forgiven. 
 

 

[Texas St. Armadillos 1,381]

I assume there will be a standard template issued in a couple months to apply for the loan forgiveness, no?

Probably,  through the same application portal. 

[troph 24,906]

I know a business that just got their PPP funding but they also made their employees keep reduced hours and sign up for the Shared Work Program from TWC. Is this allowed?
Seems like this is a way to pay the employees the least amount possible, supplement their employee income with the Shared Work Program Covid benefits, and the business gets to put as much PPP money as they can in their savings for a rainy day. 

Yes they can do this. I’ve advised many clients to do so. What we call “epicenter clients” - those in hospitality, events, travel, leisure, retail - they can not afford to spend for forgiveness, they need to save and spend for making it until October. They have to spend it when they spend it on legit items and saving it forever isn’t really an option given an aggressive time frame.

[troph 24,906]

My 2nd Entity (Law Firm) got a small EIDL last week, and just singed the promissory note for our PPP and the funds are already pending this week. That's nice. 
Now the goal is to get 100% of it forgiven. I'm in the same boat as Wulaw - want to actually bring on some new staff - and I'm wondering if what we pay them over the next 8 weeks is forgivable, even though they weren't on staff at the time this all started. 

Yes on new employees.

[troph 24,906]

I assume there will be a standard template issued in a couple months to apply for the loan forgiveness, no?
Probably,  through the same application portal. 

There could be a form but it will be handled through the banks and then pleaded to the SBA is my guess. The form could be bank specific too, but presumably not a different calculation, presumably.

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

Yes on new employees.

How about my pay- forgiveable right?

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

10 hours ago, hornian said:

My 2nd Entity (Law Firm) got a small EIDL last week, and just singed the promissory note for our PPP and the funds are already pending this week. That's nice. 

Now the goal is to get 100% of it forgiven. I'm in the same boat as Wulaw - want to actually bring on some new staff - and I'm wondering if what we pay them over the next 8 weeks is forgivable, even though they weren't on staff at the time this all started. 

Congrats man. 

I feel so blessed on this whole thing- taking on staff means we feel good about our prospects, obviously, and having a start up get funded to the tune of 2 months payroll so we can essentially bank our initial investment and roll that into a rainy day fund is amazing. 

We are probably a net winner with this covid thing (title insurance- I don’t know if everyone is doing great in the industry but we are swimming in deals in this low interest rate environment) so far, but after the initial surge of refinance transactions wear off, with sales market likely to be depressed and commercial being likely soft it will be a struggle to hold on. 

The fact that we will be able to essentially bank a month and a half a expenses (money is fungible) could be the difference between us making it and not. 

[troph 24,906]

4 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

How about my pay- forgiveable right?

if it's w-2 yes up to the $100K limit.

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

if it's w-2 yes up to the $100K limit.

Thought so. Thanks! 

[victory88 5,669]

Hey guys,

Just need some advice.  I was offered 110k for my practice from the SBA EIDL program.  Before I accept it, there is very little information with regards to the terms when I log in to accept it.  I've done some research and spoken to my accountants but just want to verify through others that may have already accepted it.   I actually called the SBA line for the application and spoke to 2 people that had no idea of the terms of the loan... very helpful lmao

So its a fixed rate at 3.75%.  No prepayment penalty.  30 year term.  Not taxable.  1 year deferment.  Is there any catch to this?  If not, I'm going to accept the entire 110k as a safety net for the next few months and just pay it back in a year if our business goes back to normal.  Am I missing anything with regards to this?  Hell I may just keep it because I'm not sure I'll find a better 30 year note right now through any lender.

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by victory88

[shakahorn 1,645]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:42 PM, shakahorn said:

Thanks!  That was the confusing part which I neglected to include in my post.  Neither the new bank nor Wells made any mention of an SBA number or an SBA loan number, which I remember from upthread.  Just the "e tran" number which prevented us from applying with another bank.  Meanwhile, we have colleagues who are applying to 2 or 3 banks (including Wells) without being stopped.

You know all the days just seem the same to me.  Last week, 2 weeks ago, last month, all seem like a year ago

Just to close this out, funds received today!

[G650 14,277]

Damn right

[riloh05 107]

18 hours ago, victory88 said:

Hey guys,

Just need some advice.  I was offered 110k for my practice from the SBA EIDL program.  Before I accept it, there is very little information with regards to the terms when I log in to accept it.  I've done some research and spoken to my accountants but just want to verify through others that may have already accepted it.   I actually called the SBA line for the application and spoke to 2 people that had no idea of the terms of the loan... very helpful lmao

So its a fixed rate at 3.75%.  No prepayment penalty.  30 year term.  Not taxable.  1 year deferment.  Is there any catch to this?  If not, I'm going to accept the entire 110k as a safety net for the next few months and just pay it back in a year if our business goes back to normal.  Am I missing anything with regards to this?  Hell I may just keep it because I'm not sure I'll find a better 30 year note right now through any lender.

 

 

how many employees do you have?

[victory88 5,669]

1 hour ago, riloh05 said:

 

how many employees do you have?

I have 2 full time and a part time employee.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Forgive me if this has been covered above.  I lost track of this thread for a bit and haven't caught up.

Once a PPP loan has been issued, has there been a final determination with regard to whether subsequent payments to 1099 or subcontractor workers can be used in the evidence for loan forgiveness (do these payments count toward the "payroll costs")? 

I know they were not considered for the calculation of the loan amount, but there was some debate as to whether they would be considered on the forgiveness part.  TIA!

[VABuckeye 2,472]

I received the EIDL email yesterday.  Sliding scale for loan amount up to $150K.  I believe they have maxxed these loans at $150K as it's the most I've heard offered on any site.  We are not asking for that much but $100K at 3.75% with a 30 year term and payments deferred for 12 months is a tough one to pass on.  It looks like I have a couple of large projects to fund coming up soon (fingers crossed) and this would help fund that additional business nicely.

[Bevo 13,601]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:57 PM, victory88 said:

Hey guys,

Just need some advice.  I was offered 110k for my practice from the SBA EIDL program.  Before I accept it, there is very little information with regards to the terms when I log in to accept it.  I've done some research and spoken to my accountants but just want to verify through others that may have already accepted it.   I actually called the SBA line for the application and spoke to 2 people that had no idea of the terms of the loan... very helpful lmao

So its a fixed rate at 3.75%.  No prepayment penalty.  30 year term.  Not taxable.  1 year deferment.  Is there any catch to this?  If not, I'm going to accept the entire 110k as a safety net for the next few months and just pay it back in a year if our business goes back to normal.  Am I missing anything with regards to this?  Hell I may just keep it because I'm not sure I'll find a better 30 year note right now through any lender.

 

How were you able to get so much money from EIDL? I thought most small businesses were in the $10K range.

[Spaulding Smails 1,555]

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

Forgive me if this has been covered above.  I lost track of this thread for a bit and haven't caught up.

Once a PPP loan has been issued, has there been a final determination with regard to whether subsequent payments to 1099 or subcontractor workers can be used in the evidence for loan forgiveness (do these payments count toward the "payroll costs")? 

I know they were not considered for the calculation of the loan amount, but there was some debate as to whether they would be considered on the forgiveness part.  TIA!

I am relatively certain that only W2 wages qualify for loan forgiveness.  Rent, utilities and W2 wages.  No 1099 / subcontractor costs.