Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate

[bernorange 8373]

I haven't heard anything yet on our application. 

[orange dream 1260]

From what I have read the SBA had / has a glitch in their application portal for 2nd draw applications.

They (SBA) were not allowing 2nd draw applications to be uploaded if there was a pending forgiveness application for the 1st draw.  There was nothing in any documentation that require the forgiveness application to be processed / finalized, etc.  Hopefully they can get that fixed pronto.

Banks press Treasury, SBA to fix 'systemic' small business loan glitches - POLITICO

Edited January 27, 2021 by orange dream

[deadshank 24653]

Filed all my second draw paperwork for one of my operations today with @cabowabo ‘s bank.   He’s in cahoots with Maclovio and dominating the PPP market.   Super easy and now waiting for approval or a middle finger.   
 

Stay tuned.  

[VABuckeye 2472]

Oh, they’re definitely in cahoots.  Since childhood. 

[deadshank 24653]

8 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Oh, they’re definitely in cahoots.  Since childhood. 

Their other brother lives one street over from me.   They pay me to keep an eye on him.  

[bernorange 8373]

Called my banker this morning.  Apparently our application was approved on Monday or so and they had sent me an email with a link to docusign the loan document, but I never got the email.  He's resent it and we should get funds within 24 hours or so.

[Chewbacca 7793]

From what I have read the SBA had / has a glitch in their application portal for 2nd draw applications.
They (SBA) were not allowing 2nd draw applications to be uploaded if there was a pending forgiveness application for the 1st draw.  There was nothing in any documentation that require the forgiveness application to be processed / finalized, etc.  Hopefully they can get that fixed pronto.
Banks press Treasury, SBA to fix 'systemic' small business loan glitches - POLITICO

That is me, then. Been waiting on forgiveness for 4+ months.

[orange dream 1260]

We've been in line for forgiveness since early October.  They have asked us for additional supporting docs 3 times (as recently as last week).  Hoping it will be finished soon.  I am still a little unclear on whether our 2nd draw application has officially been submitted to the SBA or not.

[Chewbacca 7793]

Just had to sign new loan docs for my PPP #2 loan.  I guess the bank fucked up some language.  Hopefully should be funded Monday.

[RollLeft 5045]

Thanks again @MaclovioBrown and @cabowabo.  The client was content with the one week turnaround last week.    

[deadshank 24653]

@cabowabo got both of my loans approved in 2 days.   
 

He and @MaclovioBrown are the real deal.  

[Lat22 4051]

On 1/28/2021 at 6:22 AM, deadshank said:

Their other brother lives one street over from me.   They pay me to keep an eye on him.  

What a boring gig.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

Received our second round. Almost feel guilty taking it, but...not really.

[orange dream 1260]

Our 2nd round funded on Friday morning.  Thankful to have it and glad the process was much smoother than 1st round.  Now to get the 1st round forgiveness finalized.

[Frieda’s Boss 181]

Any of you all seeing any pre-revenue companies taking a shot at PPP round 2?  Obviously won’t be able to show the YOY revenue dip but wondered if they were still trying (and succeeding)?

[VABuckeye 2472]

Good news from SBA but not for all of us.  The EIDL grant has now been extended to $10000 for all businesses.  But there’s a catch.  There are three criteria a company must meet and one of them is that the company is located in a low income area.  I guess they’ve determined only companies in low income areas are still in need. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

Language from the email we received from the SBA. 
 

The SBA is launching a new round of Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) Advances - called Targeted EIDL Advance - which provides eligible businesses with $10,000 in total grant assistance. If you received the EIDL Advance last year in an amount less than $10,000, and you meet the Targeted EIDL Advance eligibility requirements, you may be eligible to receive the difference up to the full $10,000. The combined amount of the Targeted EIDL Advance and any previously received Advance will not exceed $10,000.Please review the eligibility criteria and application instructions below carefully before you proceed to the application portal for the Targeted EIDL Advance.Businesses eligible for the Targeted EIDL Advance must meet ALL of the following eligibility criteria:

• Located in a low-income community, as defined in section 45D(e) of the Internal Revenue Code. SBA will map your business property address to determine if you are in a low-income community when you submit your Targeted EIDL Advance application.
• Suffered economic loss greater than 30 percent, as demonstrated by an 8-week period beginning on March 2, 2020, or later, compared to the previous year. You will be required to provide the total amount of monthly gross receipts from January 2019 to the current month-to-date.
• Must have 300 or fewer employees. Business entities normally eligible for the EIDL program are eligible, including sole proprietors, independent contractors, and private, nonprofit organizations. However, agricultural enterprises, such as farmers and ranchers, are not eligible to receive the Targeted EIDL Advance.

[Chewbacca 7793]

Finally got our round 1 forgiven. That only took 5 months.

[Reagan1k 3026]

Full forgiveness on two companies from round 1.  One of those met the criteria for round two so that application is in, approved by the bank, and waiting SBA funding.  

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

Has the forgiveness criteria for round 2 been determined?  

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

33 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Has the forgiveness criteria for round 2 been determined?  

Yes.

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program/ppp-loan-forgiveness#section-header-2

 

 

Second Draw PPP Loan forgiveness terms

Second Draw PPP Loans made to eligible borrowers qualify for full loan forgiveness if during the 8 to 24 week covered period following loan disbursement:

• Employee and compensation levels are maintained in the same manner as required for the First Draw PPP loan
• The loan proceeds are spent on payroll costs and other eligible expenses; and
• At least 60 percent of the proceeds are spent on payroll costs

 

 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

Thanks.  Is it best to space out funds once rec'd along the same lines as the avg monthly calculations or disburse it all at once?  

This would be the first round for me.  

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

13 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Thanks.  Is it best to space out funds once rec'd along the same lines as the avg monthly calculations or disburse it all at once?  

This would be the first round for me.  

We will use it 100% for payroll. When payroll is pulled, we transfer money from one account (holding the PPP money) into our operating account. We'll do this until it's gone (well within the 24 week period)

[VABuckeye 2472]

We are doing the same. It looks like we can cover six payroll periods with the loan funds.  I thought we’d run out on March 15 but it looks like April 15 is the last payroll it will pay out.  We’ll only use the funds for payroll. 
 

ETA: our payroll is run on the 15th and last day of each month. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by VABuckeye

[Reagan1k 3026]

Learn me on the Employee Retention Credit.  As I understand it, some employers had the option to defer payroll taxes in 2020, and there may be some credits available against the deferral if an employer didn't reduce payroll, yet had significant revenue decline.  One of our entities had a couple of quarters that were down 30% and overall we were down 20% for the year, got funding and forgiveness on PPP phase 1 and applied for Phase II

What are the particulars, and if we didn't defer, are the credits able to be recouped?  Is a 20% overall decline enough to be considered eligible?

Been a long week already and I don't have the patience to log into IRS.gov right now and read too much.

[Chewbacca 7793]

We will use it 100% for payroll. When payroll is pulled, we transfer money from one account (holding the PPP money) into our operating account. We'll do this until it's gone (well within the 24 week period)

I don't understand the separate bank account thing. As long as you can account for where the money went, you're ok.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

10 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

On 2/19/2021 at 4:13 PM, Cheeseweasel said:

We will use it 100% for payroll. When payroll is pulled, we transfer money from one account (holding the PPP money) into our operating account. We'll do this until it's gone (well within the 24 week period)

I don't understand the separate bank account thing. As long as you can account for where the money went, you're ok.

Just makes it cleaner. Not necessary, just makes it clearer if you're ever audited. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

12 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Learn me on the Employee Retention Credit.  As I understand it, some employers had the option to defer payroll taxes in 2020, and there may be some credits available against the deferral if an employer didn't reduce payroll, yet had significant revenue decline.  One of our entities had a couple of quarters that were down 30% and overall we were down 20% for the year, got funding and forgiveness on PPP phase 1 and applied for Phase II

What are the particulars, and if we didn't defer, are the credits able to be recouped?  Is a 20% overall decline enough to be considered eligible?

Been a long week already and I don't have the patience to log into IRS.gov right now and read too much.

I've been doing some reading on it.  I ran our numbers and it looks like we'll qualify for this credit for 3rd quarter 2020 based on the revised guidelines.  20% is the revised guideline for reduction in gross revenue and you can now get a credit for up to 70% of $10000 per quarter per employee for a maximum credit of $7000 per employee per quarter.

[VABuckeye 2472]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

I've been doing some reading on it.  I ran our numbers and it looks like we'll qualify for this credit for 3rd quarter 2020 based on the revised guidelines.  20% is the revised guideline for reduction in gross revenue and you can now get a credit for up to 70% of $10000 of qualified wages per quarter per employee for a maximum credit of $7000 per employee per eligible quarter.

Employee Retention Credit Under the Cares Act

Edited February 24, 2021 by VABuckeye

[VABuckeye 2472]

My above information is incorrect.

Unless the change for eligibility is fully retroactive for 2020 we don't qualify.  It looks like 2020 still requires a shutdown of the business or 50% reduction in revenue to the matching 2019 quarter up until the company has a quarter that exceeds 80% of the matching quarter in 2019.  The 20% reduction in gross revenue appears to only apply to Q1 and Q2 2021.

[BradInATX 9208]

12 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

On 2/19/2021 at 4:13 PM, Cheeseweasel said:

We will use it 100% for payroll. When payroll is pulled, we transfer money from one account (holding the PPP money) into our operating account. We'll do this until it's gone (well within the 24 week period)

I don't understand the separate bank account thing. As long as you can account for where the money went, you're ok.

For me I just feel like it'd make it easier if I'm ever audited and I have a business savings account that sits around basically unused so why not. I realize that at my level of funding the chances of me being audited are near-zero, but might as well keep it clean and easy just in case.

I think I have PTSD from buying our house. I move a ton of money around between accounts pretty often for various reasons and I had to write a letter to the underwriter explaining every single transaction. I had to write a letter for a $1500 deposit I made after a successful Vegas trip. So now I try to keep my money movement as clean and explainable as possible.

[Chewbacca 7793]

Just makes it cleaner. Not necessary, just makes it clearer if you're ever audited. 

Not really. If you have a competent accountant its not cleaner or clearer.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

9 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

3 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Just makes it cleaner. Not necessary, just makes it clearer if you're ever audited. 

Not really. If you have a competent accountant its not cleaner or clearer.

Settle down, man. I wasn't saying how everyone should do it, I was saying how we did it. You do you, guy.

[VABuckeye 2472]

By putting all the money in a separate account which is held by my lender's bank it makes forgiveness very simple for him.  That's why we use a separate account.

[Wally Pryor 5308]

On 2/24/2021 at 8:35 AM, VABuckeye said:

My above information is incorrect.

Unless the change for eligibility is fully retroactive for 2020 we don't qualify.  It looks like 2020 still requires a shutdown of the business or 50% reduction in revenue to the matching 2019 quarter up until the company has a quarter that exceeds 80% of the matching quarter in 2019.  The 20% reduction in gross revenue appears to only apply to Q1 and Q2 2021.

I'm trying to get clarity on the ERC assuming qualification for both PPP 1 and 2.  I think you may qualify for a '21 ERC for the portion of payroll not covered under the PPP 2 umbrella but I've not seen this addressed specifically. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

Correct.  I may qualify for ERC in Q2 of this year.  However, I'd prefer not to qualify as that would mean it was a shitty Q2.

[Wally Pryor 5308]

Looks the IRS released guidance yesterday on the interplay between the ERC and PPP.   Moral of the story - the more qualifying costs included on your PPP application, the better off you are and the more latitude you'll have in claiming ERCs with "unused" payroll costs. 

[Wally Pryor 5308]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Correct.  I may qualify for ERC in Q2 of this year.  However, I'd prefer not to qualify as that would mean it was a shitty Q2.

Noted. 

[Chewbacca 7793]

On 2/24/2021 at 11:40 AM, VABuckeye said:

By putting all the money in a separate account which is held by my lender's bank it makes forgiveness very simple for him.  That's why we use a separate account.

Uh, you still have to account for it...

[VABuckeye 2472]

Our lender did the accounting.  He looked at our bank records and saw that the funds were used for payroll.  It's right there in the ledger.

[troph 24923]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:13 PM, Cheeseweasel said:

We will use it 100% for payroll. When payroll is pulled, we transfer money from one account (holding the PPP money) into our operating account. We'll do this until it's gone (well within the 24 week period)

Same. 

[Chewbacca 7793]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:30 AM, VABuckeye said:

Our lender did the accounting.  He looked at our bank records and saw that the funds were used for payroll.  It's right there in the ledger.

There are still rules about owner pay, deductions for anyone making over $100k, etc.  Saying "it's all payroll" is not sufficient evidence for these loans.

[bernorange 8373]

Hey, so you peepes member when I reported that Fortune 500 company crying about their finances and asking for a discount on fees?  Well I've got another Fortune 100 client that apparently hired PWC to try and squeeze all their vendors.  They are asking for 20%.  No word on whether or not they are sitting on a beach.

Edited March 25, 2021 by bernorange

[VABuckeye 2472]

3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

There are still rules about owner pay, deductions for anyone making over $100k, etc.  Saying "it's all payroll" is not sufficient evidence for these loans.

It’s a one page form and we meet all the requirements.  Not trying to argue with you. My business is very small.  We make it easy for Maclovio. 

[Frieda’s Boss 181]

Anyone else have first round of PPP forgiveness sitting with the SBA for months?  Our bank can’t tell us anything other than “we have a lot of clients in the same position”. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

6 hours ago, Frieda’s Boss said:

Anyone else have first round of PPP forgiveness sitting with the SBA for months?  Our bank can’t tell us anything other than “we have a lot of clients in the same position”. 

Government efficiency. Frankly, I'd assume that if you've followed all the rules, you'll get forgiveness eventually. We did as did many other companies we deal with.

[McFly 606]

Got forgiveness in a week but was able to use 3508S. 

[Chewbacca 7793]

Anyone else have first round of PPP forgiveness sitting with the SBA for months?  Our bank can’t tell us anything other than “we have a lot of clients in the same position”. 

Mine sat for 5 months or so, then one day last month, I got the call from the bank that it was forgiven. There doesn't seem to be any method to the madness and the banks don't know anything.

[VABuckeye 2472]

We were forgiven in December.  I received my note from the bank showing the forgiveness a week or two ago.  I dealt with a small bank so I'm guessing getting through the forgiveness process was easier for them.

[VABuckeye 2472]

SBA increased the EIDL maximum loan amount to $500k.  Emails to go out to those who took out the loan previously.  Initial payments to be deferred another 12 months.

 

SBA Announcement

Edited March 27, 2021 by VABuckeye