College Football in 2020 in danger?

[BevoBuck14 27]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

You’re missing the point.  It’s the most important factor driving the bias against covid statistics and an evidence based medical approach.  

Not yet. The evidence thus far has shown the loudest factors driving the bias of a true evidence-based medical approach has been financial liability (disproportionately related to covid) and journalistic hyperbole (overstated risk). The loudest factors have been overinflating the risk of covid, not downplaying.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 minute ago, BevoBuck14 said:

Not yet. The evidence thus far has shown the loudest factors driving the bias of a true evidence-based medical approach has been financial liability (disproportionately related to covid) and journalistic hyperbole (overstated risk). The loudest factors have been overinflating the risk of covid, not downplaying.

I think that depends who you’re listening too.  I’d argue the B1G is biased one way and the SEC is biased in another way.  Not picking sides on this chain with you - just saying there’s a bias both ways.  

[C-Man 27239]

2 hours ago, taybo20 said:

Hmmm...it feels like a straw man. Myocarditis hasn't even been mentioned since the start of this pandemic until now. None of the other sports that are playing now have even talked about it. So why now, and why college football?

Didn't the Red Sox pitcher who had virus before season re-start have likely heart damage that is keeping him from playing this year?

[Tex Pete 20408]

8 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I think that depends who you’re listening too.  I’d argue the B1G is biased one way and the SEC is biased in another way.  Not picking sides on this chain with you - just saying there’s a bias both ways.  

I think that is true of the general population's reaction, too. The truth (and actual threat level) lies somewhere in the middle.

['stache 21825]

Don't public universities have sovereign immunity from these suits? Isn't that why aggy was never held legally responsible for the dead bonfire kids, and why Tech never paid Leach his severance? Would the covid liability waiver that Congress will inevitably pass not going to protect public universities?

[David Dennison 18940]

28 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

We’ll see. One thing is for sure. You’ll be actively rooting against its success. 

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/articleRedesign9/Drew-Magary-College-football-should-die-forever-15475477.php

[ouflak 60]

27 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

Honestly this was all horribly planned by university presidents, athletic directors, and NCAA.

In their defense (barely), I just don't anyone think even remotely planned for something like the Wuhan Xi virus hitting us all like this. It's just contingency plan they never put together.

['stache 21825]

I see some credibility to the argument that the players might be safer by some measurable degree being on the team with all safety protocols in place, which I hope would mean constant testing and monitoring. But it only works if you can prevent them from doing stupid shit like going to crowded parties. If there was a way to impose serious punishment (scholarship revoked, etc) for anyone putting themselves (and thereby others) at risk, then maybe it could work. But that would only work if you could really monitor the players, maybe pay some campus narcs to keep track of them? In any respect, if these guys really want #wewanttoplay to work, they should be willing to go full social bubble for the entirety of the season, and be willing to have close monitoring to ensure players comply. I really don't think it's feasible, but just a thought experiment on how it might work.

[GRHorn 105]

26 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

This seems like a stretch.  Not everyone makes decisions based on politics.   But just like politics, some people are more willing to take risks and some are more risk adverse.   Two doctors could look at the exact same numbers and one could say, "Its a low risk, don't worry" and the other could say, "Is what you're suggesting even worth any risk?"   Doesn't change the data and doesn't have anything to do with politics.  

If you want evidence that there’s a political angle to all of this, look no further than David Dennison all over the thread 

[Jive Turkey 12630]

every single professional league so far either delayed the start of their season or canceled the season altogether.  but an "amateur" league has to push forward and can't delay the season until the spring?

[usmc0331horn 955]

So what are we doing on saturdays this fall? Beers in the garage alone?

[Hurtlocker 2213]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

If you want evidence that there’s a political angle to all of this, look no further than David Dennison all over the thread 

You misunderstand.   Just because some people politicize it, does not mean that everyone is.  If a doctor thinks the risk is too low or two high doesn't have to have anything to do with what the president may believe.

[David Dennison 18940]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

If you want evidence that there’s a political angle to all of this, look no further than David Dennison all over the thread 

Get a grip.

[Captainant 27689]

Just now, GRHorn said:

If you want evidence that there’s a political angle to all of this, look no further than David Dennison all over the thread 

Definitely not the president tweeting in all caps that WE NEED COLLEGE FOOTBALL and that everything is fiiiiiine in the midst of ongoing decision making and idiots yelling about it on football boards

[ztejas 43522]

1 minute ago, Jive Turkey said:

every single professional league so far either delayed the start of their season or canceled the season altogether.  but an "amateur" league has to push forward and can't delay the season until the spring?

There's more money in college football than every professional sport in this country save the NFL (and maybe NASCAR?). This isn't about amateur vs professional, it's about $$$.

[Hurtlocker 2213]

2 minutes ago, usmc0331horn said:

So what are we doing on saturdays this fall? Beers in the garage alone?

[Sbbruin 21865]

39 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I’ve only posted it since pretty much the first week. Cry about it in your pillow, pussy.

 

[David Dennison 18940]

Just now, Captainant said:

Definitely not the president tweeting in all caps that WE NEED COLLEGE FOOTBALL and that everything is fiiiiiine in the midst of ongoing decision making and idiots yelling about it on football boards

You see, nothing that GRHorn says is political. Only other people are political. His takes are well thought out and reasonable without a hint of political bias.

Politics is for the dirty CR people who foul up the pristine environment that is the football board.

[usmc0331horn 955]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You see, nothing that GRHorn says is political. Only other people are political. His takes are well thought out and reasonable without a hint of political bias.

Politics is for the dirty CR people who foul up the pristine environment that is the football board.

Nah, you're just a mentally incompetent fascist douche.

[ouflak 60]

19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Don't public universities have sovereign immunity from these suits? Isn't that why aggy was never held legally responsible for the dead bonfire kids, and why Tech never paid Leach his severance? Would the covid liability waiver that Congress will inevitably pass not going to protect public universities?

The bonfire wasn't on Aggy property and was not a sponsored event, so there was no direct link. The Leach contract dispute is contentious, but was technically allowed to fall under the protection of sovereign immunity. So far as I'm aware, there have been no lawsuits against the universities because of injuries incurred while playing sports. And that might be because of sovereign immunity, but I'm not sure. There have certainly been plenty of successful lawsuits with regards to sexual abuse, as well as by men who have been expelled/branded because of those kind of cases.  Sovereign immunity clearly only goes so far. In any case, the NCAA isn't protected nor are the conferences. So even if the schools can duck from the Wuhan Xi virus under that cover, their governing institutions most certainly cannot, and the money (for any hypothetical future settlement of lawsuits against those institutions) would eventually have to come from somewhere....

Edited August 11, 2020 by ouflak

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

 

No shit. I’ve never quoted fletch once in my life and he comes hard like that. Oh well, some people just suck

[David Dennison 18940]

Just now, usmc0331horn said:

Nah, you're just a mentally incompetent fascist douche.

Says the marine.

[Beau Vine 54314]

43 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

Honestly this was all horribly planned by university presidents, athletic directors, and NCAA.

You expected anything different?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

He negged me for a very vanilla post. Not sure who he is or what is his problem. 

I got negged by a guy called ‘ghost poster’.  I think that’s actually a great sock name and would like to pos rep him...if only I could.  

[SHOOTER12 8814]

1 hour ago, taybo20 said:

Look, maybe I am a dumbass like @Beau Vine says...but IDGAF because that's the least of my worries at this point. I've been unemployed for over 5 months now. My industry is similar to anything having to do with live sports or concerts and is VERY slow coming back. I don't know how much longer before I work, and gov't support has dried up. I'm fucking pissed, and am looking for ways to support my family. I don't have answers. I feel like a lot of the players, in that I want to work and do what I do, but I can't do to powers outside my control. It sucks. There is something new everyday and mostly negative in regards to this virus and how it will kill you, when any ray of light tries to pop up. Meanwhile, quite honestly, the virus itself is the least of my personal worries. Uncharted territory is hard.

Sorry, rant over. I got pushed to my limit with covid-19. I'll leave the thread.

Everyone stay safe! 

Much respect and best wishes for you and yours...

[Beau Vine 54314]

10 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

If you want evidence that there’s a political angle to all of this, look no further than David Dennison all over the thread 

You must have never set foot in the baseball thread.  I've seen more Dennison posts about the Astros cheating scandal than I have from him in CR.

[GRHorn 105]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You see, nothing that GRHorn says is political. Only other people are political. His takes are well thought out and reasonable without a hint of political bias.

Politics is for the dirty CR people who foul up the pristine environment that is the football board.

I post mostly on other boards outside CR. You don’t. You mean to tell me that you just happened to pick this thread? 🤔 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

19 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I think that is true of the general population's reaction, too. The truth (and actual threat level) lies somewhere in the middle.

Yeah.  Zero doubt.  It’s a beating to read these threads too.  I drive by every now and then but there’s no winners with this shit.  

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

You must have never set foot in the baseball thread.  I've seen more Dennison posts about the Astros cheating scandal than I have from him in CR.

No, I’m under 50.  

[David Dennison 18940]

Just now, GRHorn said:

I post mostly on other boards outside CR. You don’t. You mean to tell me that you just happened to pick this thread? 🤔 

You'll be OK, pumpkin. The bad man in your computer can't hurt you. 

[irishtexan 11522]

1 hour ago, Fletch said:

And who is the leader of the free world right now? Hmmmnn

 

Oh and fuck you for downplaying this all these months. Really showed your ass, you trashy, retarded,  professional sports fan. You’re pretty much Minnesota Vic. Congrats. 
 

So yeah any chance we get semi lucky and get some 7 on 7 tournaments or something? Asked yesterday but it got lost in the shuffle I think 

 

1 hour ago, Fletch said:

Cause you ruined the DT thread with your idiocy. It was once a great thread, then guys like you ruined it. I’ve always lurked more than post, but the last few weeks have been so fucking infuriating. It’s been therapeutic taking it out on dumb fucks like you 

I needed you GR cause you’ve been spouting the same kind of idiocy since March and look where your brilliant insights got us. 

Any legitimate take you have gets "lost in the shuffle" of your political shit posting and personal slap fights with other posters about neg rep. Just shut the fuck up. And this comes from someone who generally agrees with your misplaced, unrequested political rage posts. 

Take. It. To. The. Cloakroom.

[Hurtlocker 2213]

 

[Beau Vine 54314]

So, is taybo Eddie Money from TOS?

[Beau Vine 54314]

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

No, I’m under 50.  

You and your IQ.

[Hurtlocker 2213]

Solid take from an infectious disease expert.   Doesn't say there is no risk and likely highlights why most of the smaller conferences are shuttering the fall, its going to be expensive to make it work.

['stache 21825]

8 minutes ago, ouflak said:

The bonfire wasn't on Aggy property and was not a "sponsored" event,

[Randolph Duke 4034]

3 minutes ago, ouflak said:

The bonfire wasn't on Aggy property and was not a sponsored event, so there was no direct link. The Leach contract dispute is contentious, but was technically allowed to fall under the protection of sovereign immunity. So far as I'm aware, there have been no lawsuits against the universities because of injuries incurred while playing sports. And that might be because of sovereign immunity, but I'm not sure. There have certainly been plenty of successful lawsuits with regards to sexual abuse, as well as by men who have been expelled/branded because of those kind of cases.  Sovereign immunity clearly only goes so far. In any case, the NCAA isn't protected nor are the conferences. So even if the schools can duck under that cover, their governing institutions most certainly cannot, and the money (for any hypothetical future settlement of lawsuits against those institutions) would eventually have to come from somewhere....

The aggy bonfire debacle absolutely was on state (school) property, and there absolutely was litigation involving TAMU. It went on for quite a few years.

The U.S. Supreme Court weighed in on the subject of state sovereign immunity just this last session.

The ability of public universities to escape liability through invoking sovereign immunity is rather well established. Private universities aren't as fortunate.

[BradInATX 9208]

21 minutes ago, usmc0331horn said:

So what are we doing on saturdays this fall? Beers in the garage alone?

NBA and golf through mid-December ending with the Presidents' Cup mid-December. Hopefully NFL through the Super Bowl.

From Super Bowl Sunday until March, you can either spend time with your family or get drunk in your garage and watch replays of the 2005 Rose Bowl. Your choice.

Pray for a vaccine and/or March Madness.

Profit.

Edited August 11, 2020 by BradInATX

[Hagbard Celine 10896]

14 minutes ago, ouflak said:

The bonfire wasn't on Aggy property and was not a sponsored event, so there was no direct link.

dude.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/30°37'21.7"N+96°20'06.7"W/@30.6231866,-96.3374384,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d30.6227!4d-96.3352?hl=en

https://bonfire.tamu.edu/

[Wulaw Horn 19138]

58 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Hope things improve for you, brother. People forget that there are real people behind the unemployment numbers and the body count.

No matter how comfortable people are in whichever camp they find themselves, this cannot last forever. Financially, we cannot continue shutting everything down. Many people work from home or work for the government, but many thousands of private businesses can't operate normally and the result is great suffering.

Of all the people in my life that I know and have spoken to about this (and I try to avoid these discussions as much as possible, but sometimes you can't), the ones that are most strident about shut it all down work for the government. Or tech, or something like that. It's really easy to say when your livelihood isn't in direct threat (though if it gets much worse the tax base will deteriorate to such a point that the government worker isn't safe either).  Those who are in the industries getting decimated are probably sick and fucking tired of hearing "out of an overabundance of caution we will..."

Just talked to my little brother. He was going to flow over to American probably spring of 21. Now they are telling him he's likely to be looking at 2025 based upon their best guess. He's stuck in a regional, with a reduced schedule, for 4 or 5 years. He went into this as a career change later in life (35 or so) with the idea that he'd have to put in X amount of years and then he'd be in the big time and life gets a lot better easier. Now- he's finding out it's X + 5.  That sucks. Big time. But at least he has a job. So many people are so much worse off.  

It will break your heart if you sit down and think about it too long.  I feel so bad for the class of 2020 that didn't have prom, graduation, sports etc.  That's time they will never get back. Same thing with college sports if they get cancelled (though I suppose at least most of those guys can take a victory lap if they want) but truly, if we don't play now there's no argument to ever play again without a vaccine or herd immunity. And maybe that's the play, to just shut down most of what people find enjoyable in life and live in sheltered little groups because any time we go out into the wide world it spikes back up and becomes inevitable.  I told my wife in February that this thing was going to be the end of the world as we know it. It looks like that right now. Praying for a vaccine. 

[Hurtlocker 2213]

Quote

Top ACC Medical Advisor Says Football Can Be Played Safely

By Michael Smith

August 11, 2020

The ACC still is planning to play football in '20, and a Duke doctor who is advising the conference believes it can be done safely. Dr. Cameron Wolfe, a Duke infectious disease specialist who chairs the ACC’s medical advisory team, confidently said he expects the conference to continue its steady march toward a football season. While the unpredictable coronavirus poses a risk, Wolfe said doctors have learned enough over the last six months to understand how to manage that risk. “We believe we can mitigate it down to a level that makes everyone safe,” Wolfe told THE DAILY exclusively. “Can we safely have two teams meet on the field? I would say yes. Will it be tough? Yes. Will it be expensive and hard and lots of work? For sure. But I do believe you can sufficiently mitigate the risk of bringing COVID onto the football field or into the training room at a level that’s no different than living as a student on campus.”

CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM: Wolfe’s optimism helps explain why the league has remained steadfast in its desire to play this season, while others have waffled. The Big Ten and Pac-12 reportedly are poised to postpone their seasons, while the Mountain West and MAC already have postponed fall sports, including football. As of today, the ACC is set to begin its season Sept. 12 with an 11-game schedule, although other factors could come into play, including what the other FBS conferences do. Wolfe, as chair of the ACC’s medical advisory team, has a pipeline to the conference’s leadership of Commissioner John Swofford, university presidents and ADs. What they have heard him say is that “the virus isn’t going away.” Wolfe: “We have to co-exist with COVID. I like that saying because it summarizes a reality that this virus isn’t going anywhere. Whilst it ebbs and flows, we’re not going to see it ebb to zero anytime soon.” Wolfe said he has tried “not to be cataclysmic” about COVID. “This is not Ebola,” he said. “It doesn’t have the lethality or the infectivity. So, certain mitigation efforts can be incredibly helpful. We’ve seen that in other countries -- sadly not in the United States -- where good infection control and good regimented management have allowed groups to co-exist with this virus really well.”

UNPREDICTABLE RISK: What Wolfe cannot do is predict risk tolerance among administrators, athletes and fans. For there to be a season, there must be some acceptance of risk, just as there is when players walk onto the field under normal circumstances. Wolfe: “You have to feel some level of comfortable playing in a non-zero risk environment. You can’t tell me that running onto a football field is supposed to be a zero-risk environment. Look at all of the regular sporting injuries that we accept as a certain level of risk as part and parcel of football. Now the reality is that we have to accept a little bit of COVID risk to be a part of that.” Conferences in other parts of the country are coming to other conclusions. The Pac-12’s medical advisory group is advising the conference to stop contact and competitive activities right now, according to Dr. Dave Petron, a Univ. of Utah doctor on the conference’s advisory group. They are looking to implement more testing and safety measures before proceeding.

 

[Randolph Duke 4034]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

dude.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/30°37'21.7"N+96°20'06.7"W/@30.6231866,-96.3374384,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d30.6227!4d-96.3352?hl=en

https://bonfire.tamu.edu/

10/28/2008 2:27:59 PM ET

COLLEGE STATION, Texas — Texas A&M University agreed Tuesday to pay $2.1 million to settle a lawsuit over the collapse of a bonfire tower that killed 12 people and injured dozens more nearly a decade ago.

The families of four students killed and several of those who were injured sued the university and construction contractors hired to help build the 59-foot-tall tower of logs that fell apart in November 1999.

After the collapse, the university prohibited students from building the bonfire on its property — a tradition for the Texas A&M-Texas football game going back to 1909. Since then, the fire has been held off campus by students and alumni.

Under the settlement reached Tuesday in Brazos County court, the university agreed to pay $2.1 million to the victims and their families and to have engineering oversight if the university ever decides to allow future bonfires on campus. University spokesman Jason Cook said the university will pay $500,000, with the remaining money coming from its insurers.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27422100/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/texas-am-settles-lawsuit-over-bonfire-deaths/

[Newy25 7703]

I almost wonder if the Big 10 thought they could convince the other conferences on the fence to cancel and now that it is clear at least two and probably three are going to for sure try if that changes their calculation. If coaches and players want to play, it seems like it will be hard to cancel. I guess we will soon find out. 

[Hurtlocker 2213]

1 minute ago, Newy25 said:

I almost wonder if the Big 10 thought they could convince the other conferences on the fence to cancel and now that it is clear at least two and probably three are going to for sure try if that changes their calculation. If coaches and players want to play, it seems like it will be hard to cancel. I guess we will soon find out. 

Yeah kind of feels like the tossed it out to test the waters to see if they were alone.   Its one thing to lose $700m+ on your own, its another thing to lose it when no one else does.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Hurtlocker

[Newy25 7703]

Just now, ouflak said:

So no sovereign immunity there at all. Hard to see how they get protected from the Wuhan Xi virus lawsuits then.

That’s all of society. Not just colleges. We all have to live in that world in all businesses everywhere. 

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, ouflak said:

So no sovereign immunity there at all. Hard to see how they get protected from the Wuhan Xi virus lawsuits then.

26 posts, all either politically charged in this thread or other politically charged Daily Texan threads. Shoehorns "Wuhan Xi virus" into every post.

Definitely seems legit. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12479]

2 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

 

 

When that day comes, if Texas is the reigning national champions, I'll be okay with it.

[Wulaw Horn 19138]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Says the marine.

I think this is my first neg on this site ever.  Fuck off dude- being a marine isn't worthy of scorn. And I'm pretty sure you and him are way more aligned than he and I. This is stupid bullshit and you should feel awful for it.

[Skipper 6161]

Sovereign Immunity arguments aside, what is the real world liability universities are looking at here?  If they allow players to opt out without penalty (no loss of scholarship or eligibility) and players elect to play, aren't they assuming any COVID related risks?  With all of the liability talk, I'm trying to understand what actual economic liability there really is in that scenario vs. just the horrible optics of an 'amateur' athlete becoming infected and having a serious illness.   Not my practice area so I'm genuinely curious what the litigators thoughts are.

I don't know what the right answer is as you are risking horrible optics regardless (even if the schools have no real financial liability).  But I also absolutely agree that the athletes are better off on campus with weekly testing and best in class monitoring and care compared to being sent home.  I think that is the point that the coaches and those around programs are trying to drive home and it's a valid point.

[kopp0e 1135]

4 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

I almost wonder if the Big 10 thought they could convince the other conferences on the fence to cancel and now that it is clear at least two and probably three are going to for sure try if that changes their calculation. If coaches and players want to play, it seems like it will be hard to cancel. I guess we will soon find out. 

Also the optics of having schools play in other leagues, whilst not getting tv contracted money, looks bad...