Top 10 white basketball players of all time.

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

I'd throw his teammate Bill Bradley into the discussion for most interesting as well. He's the only player I can find on basketball-reference with a couple years of stats listed as:

DNP (Rhode's Scholar)

afaik he's the only NBA alumnus Senator as well

Safety from FSU took that route as well, and I realize it’s a different sport.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

I'd throw his teammate Bill Bradley into the discussion for most interesting as well. He's the only player I can find on basketball-reference with a couple years of stats listed as:

DNP (Rhode's Scholar)

afaik he's the only NBA alumnus Senator as well

Those Knicks teams must have been pretty ridiculous to be around. Jerry Lucas, Bill Bradley, Earl Monroe, Clyde Frazier, Phil Jackson...what an ensemble of players and characters. 

[shnsajax 3591]

Sue Bird

[Iceman 2690]

Jimmy Chitwood

[Underdog 28544]

8 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

I'd throw his teammate Bill Bradley into the discussion for most interesting as well. He's the only player I can find on basketball-reference with a couple years of stats listed as:

DNP (Rhode's Scholar)

afaik he's the only NBA alumnus Senator as well

Wasn’t there an ex-Terp player who held office in the Senate?  McMillan or something like that. 

[Shoxthemonkey 1976]

Tom. I believe you are correct @Underdog

[Beau Vine 54204]

14 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

 

afaik he's the only NBA alumnus Senator as well

Tom McMillan?

[ChickenSandwich 9824]

On 4/6/2020 at 8:53 AM, StruggleBus said:

Matt Bonner

Matt Bullard. FIFY

[Harrison Stafford 3335]

15 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

he may not be the best, but Jerry Lucas is certainly the most interesting. 

 

As a rookie, Jerry Lucas led the league in field goal percentage, shooting 52.7 percent from the field.  He was also named the NBA Rookie of the Year.  In his second season, Lucas won the All-Star Game MVP in his first of six All-Star Game appearances during the decade.

He was one of the best rebounders of all time, averaging 15.6 rebounds per game over his career.  That ranks him in the top five rebounders in NBA history.   He was pretty stinkin' good.

[Deej 76750]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:40 PM, Iceman said:

recency bias is absolutely real in these lists.

This. So many players that didn't have the advantage of the 3 point line, lack of hand checking, the ability to never be called for carrying, travelling being anything more than five steps, being able to drive the lane without being clotheslined, and freedom to change their pivot foot. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Deej

[TommyGufano 6021]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Tom McMillan?

Congressman + state Senator. That's JV 😉

[Horn80 6114]

Obligatory-

Is it white boy day?

[michaelpshayes 417]

22 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Kevin McHale was such a badass. He had more low post moves than anyone and that includes Hakeem. Barkley said that if McHale got the ball down on the blocks all you could do was hope he'd miss because you weren't going to stop him. He also gets points for being one of the funniest MFers of all time. One of my favorite quips from McHale was him busting the ball of #33. A reporter asked him "what's the most amazing thing you've ever seen Larry Bird do?" He didn't miss a beat with "well, I saw him pick up the check one time."

And I know he doesn't belong on the top 10 or probably top 50 white players, but a shout out to 'Thunder' Dan Majerle. White Men Can't Jump definitely did not apply to him.

nothing like watching McHale in the low post,  I miss that part of basketball 

 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned the great Jack Sikma ...he finally made into the HOF last year...6'11, great passer .. and his step back pivot in the post was revolutionary at the time, my 8th grade basketball coach taught that to me in 1988 and I used that move with good success for 4 years in college and six years playing in Europe.. he was a big influence on the game  ...that jump shot tho

 

Weber, McHale and Isiah on Sikma:

https://www.nba.com/video/2019/01/08/20190108-players-only-webbs-wheel-jack-sikma

[GhostOfTomJoad 9323]

Sikma was a stud. That knock-kneed "jumper" was a sight to see.

I think it's Bill Russell on the commentary on one of these clips where you hear him say "McHale gave him 25 fakes you gotta go for one of 'em."

 

 

[Carl Spackler 3479]

Rick Barry has gotten some mentions but not a lot of love on this thread.  He was a great player.  Tremendous scorer, great passer, and a decent rebounder.  His defensive game wasn't anywhere near his offensive game, though.  He could fill it up like few could.  A lot of people are mentioning Maravich -- Barry had a similar flashy style (though not quite as visually entertaining) -- but Barry was probably the better overall player. 

Tommy Chambers, Dan Issel, Billy Cunningham, Kiki Vanderweghe . . . probably not top 10 on this list, but each was terrific.  

 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4767]

20 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Those Knicks teams must have been pretty ridiculous to be around. Jerry Lucas, Bill Bradley, Earl Monroe, Clyde Frazier, Phil Jackson...what an ensemble of players and characters. 

First time I saw Earl Monroe in person was in Baltimore when he was still with the Bullets.

He would back his man down, then spin in a flash to shoot his deadly jumper.  He was a magician .. he was “The Pearl!”

[cafe society 2860]

What's with all the love for Kiki Vanderweghe?  He was a completely soft, one-dimensional player,  had he come along ten years earlier he would have washed out of the league quickly due to getting physically abused.  He should be nowhere near this list.  He was the perfect ABA marshmallow with a nice shot.

[cafe society 2860]

4 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

First time I saw Earl Monroe in person was in Baltimore when he was still with the Bullets.

He would back his man down, then spin in a flash to shoot his deadly jumper.  He was a magician .. he was “The Pearl!”

When he got dealt to the Knicks, he and Clyde made one of the deadliest backcourts in NBA history.

[cafe society 2860]

23 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Rick Barry has gotten some mentions but not a lot of love on this thread.  He was a great player.  Tremendous scorer, great passer, and a decent rebounder.  His defensive game wasn't anywhere near his offensive game, though.  He could fill it up like few could.  A lot of people are mentioning Maravich -- Barry had a similar flashy style (though not quite as visually entertaining) -- but Barry was probably the better overall player. 

Tommy Chambers, Dan Issel, Billy Cunningham, Kiki Vanderweghe . . . probably not top 10 on this list, but each was terrific.  

 

Barry was a lot bigger than Maravich.  He was able to bang in the paint for boards.  But... had Pete not had injuries (certainly not on the level of Walton) he would have been the logo.

[Underdog 28544]

20 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Those Knicks teams must have been pretty ridiculous to be around. Jerry Lucas, Bill Bradley, Earl Monroe, Clyde Frazier, Phil Jackson...what an ensemble of players and characters. 

Those early 70s Knick teams are my favorite, just a beautiful team to watch, Spurs remind me a lot of them.  They were already a great team before adding both Monroe and Lucas. 

[cafe society 2860]

11 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Those early 70s Knick teams are my favorite, just a beautiful team to watch, Spurs remind me a lot of them.  They were already a great team before adding both Monroe and Lucas. 

Exactly.  Dick Barnett - he of the leg tuck jumper as he yelped, "Fall back, Baby," was a former all-star relegated to a bench player.  I'm not sure the Knicks ever go after Lucas the Magician without concerns over 'Willis Reed's knees.  But yeah, they were deep and badass.  Solid in every part of the game.  When they rolled out Frazier, Monroe, DeBuscherre, Bradley and Reed they were a fucking force.

[Carl Spackler 3479]

12 minutes ago, cafe society said:

Barry was a lot bigger than Maravich.  He was able to bang in the paint for boards.  But... had Pete not had injuries (certainly not on the level of Walton) he would have been the logo.

About 2" taller and 15# heavier.  They did play different positions (Barry was a small forward while Maravich was a guard), but their styles had some similarities which is what brought Maravich to mind for me when thinking about Barry.  Barry had his share of injuries as well, mostly early in his career when he was playing in the ABA.

As great as he was, I always wondered what Maravich would have done had he gone to the ABA instead of the Hawks when he came out of college.  With that wide-open style, 3-point shot, etc., he would have torn it up, IMO.  As it was, he had to adapt a bit to the more structured NBA.      

 

  

[Underdog 28544]

Great time of the NBA, Knicks, Celtics, Bucks, Bullets, Lakers, Bullets. 

[Underdog 28544]

How good would the Hawks had been if Erving had been allowed to stay with them?  Him and Pistol?  Good Lord. 

[cafe society 2860]

1 minute ago, Carl Spackler said:

About 2" taller and 15# heavier.  They did play different positions (Barry was a small forward while Maravich was a guard), but their styles had some similarities which is what brought Maravich to mind for me when thinking about Barry.  Barry had his share of injuries as well, mostly early in his career when he was playing in the ABA.

As great as he was, I always wondered what Maravich would have done had he gone to the ABA instead of the Hawks when he came out of college.  With that wide-open style, 3-point shot, etc., he would have torn it up, IMO.  As it was, he had to adapt a bit to the more structured NBA.      

 

  

I remember his time with the Hawks.  They had lots of talent:  Walt Bellamy, "Sweet" Lou Hudson, Lenny Wilkins, Walt Hazzard.  Maravich was an eagle trying to bring turkeys up to speed.  He would drive and dish and they were never ready for the pass - even though he hit them right in the hands.  It was a fucking embarrassment.  Yeah, had he gone ABA teams would have had a better opportunity to adapt to his advanced game.

 

[cafe society 2860]

2 minutes ago, Underdog said:

How good would the Hawks had been if Erving had been allowed to stay with them?  Him and Pistol?  Good Lord. 

Dr J would have been the one guy playing in Pistol Pete's rarefied air;  it would have been like watching a Blue Angels air show.

[Carl Spackler 3479]

30 minutes ago, cafe society said:

What's with all the love for Kiki Vanderweghe?  He was a completely soft, one-dimensional player,  had he come along ten years earlier he would have washed out of the league quickly due to getting physically abused.  He should be nowhere near this list.  He was the perfect ABA marshmallow with a nice shot.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of "love" for him -- I mentioned him in passing, but specifically noted that he wouldn't make this list.  As you alluded, he was an offensive-minded player who didn't have the all-around game that many others had.  He was just another guy who could fill it up.  

BTW, I'm not sure if your reference to the ABA is meant to imply that Vanderweghe played in the old league, but KV never played in the ABA.

 

[Iceman 2690]

Probably because he cut his teeth in a Nuggets uniform...

[Carl Spackler 3479]

3 minutes ago, cafe society said:

I remember his time with the Hawks.  They had lots of talent:  Walt Bellamy, "Sweet" Lou Hudson, Lenny Wilkins, Walt Hazzard.  Maravich was an eagle trying to bring turkeys up to speed.  He would drive and dish and they were never ready for the pass - even though he hit them right in the hands.  It was a fucking embarrassment.  Yeah, had he gone ABA teams would have had a better opportunity to adapt to his advanced game.

 

Let's just say that both Pistol and his teammates had to do some adapting.  Lulz.  

BTW, I wouldn't call Hudson a turkey.  One of the more underrated players in NBA history, IMO.  Could score, pass, and was a very rugged defender.  Gave Jerry West and Clyde Frazier all they could handle in the late 60's and early 70's.  His stretch from about '69 to '74 was top notch, and he was the reason Maravich began his career coming off the bench.

[cafe society 2860]

4 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I wouldn't say there's a lot of "love" for him -- I mentioned him in passing, but specifically noted that he wouldn't make this list.  As you alluded, he was an offensive-minded player who didn't have the all-around game that many others had.  He was just another guy who could fill it up.  

BTW, I'm not sure if your reference to the ABA is meant to imply that Vanderweghe played in the old league, but KV never played in the ABA.

 

Nah, just that he would've been perfect for thr striped ball league.  

[Carl Spackler 3479]

Just now, Iceman said:

Probably because he cut his teeth in a Nuggets uniform...

Yeah, post-merger.  He had kind of an ABA element to his game as well.

[Carl Spackler 3479]

Just now, cafe society said:

Nah, just that he would've been perfect for thr striped ball league.  

Agreed

[cafe society 2860]

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Let's just say that both Pistol and his teammates had to do some adapting.  Lulz.  

BTW, I wouldn't call Hudson a turkey.  One of the more underrated players in NBA history, IMO.  Could score, pass, and was a very rugged defender.  Gave Jerry West and Clyde Frazier all they could handle in the late 60's and early 70's.  His stretch from about '69 to '74 was top notch, and he was the reason Maravich began his career coming off the bench.

My point being that Maravich was playing at a level above proven NBA all-stars.   I watched those games; it was an absolute embarrassment.

[Carl Spackler 3479]

14 minutes ago, Underdog said:

How good would the Hawks had been if Erving had been allowed to stay with them?  Him and Pistol?  Good Lord. 

One of the great "what if's" in NBA history.  

The Bucks had his NBA draft rights during that time, so there was also a chance he could have teamed up with Kareem and the Big O, which is also interesting to think about.

But Dr. J and Pistol Pete running together would have really been something.  Two of the most exciting basketball performers ever.  

[cafe society 2860]

And I believe this was alluded to earlier, but had there been a 3-point line in college or the NBA sooner, Maravich would have set records not to be broken in our lifetimes.  Teams would play box and one defenses to move him further out and try to prevent his deadly drive/pass but he would just move further and further out and continue to drain jumpers.  Like I said, IMO, if he enjoys good health he becomes The Logo.

[cafe society 2860]

You know, back then, you didn't get to see every game on television; there were selected games of the week on the college and pro level.  I remember watching Maravich and his underdog Tigers taking it to a much better and deeper Issel-led Wildcat team one Saturday.  Issel has been mentioned already, I would love to have seen his career entirely in the NBA.  Magnificent all-around game for a big man.

[Underdog 28544]

The Pete/Issel matchups were legendary, was reported that Rupp would let Pete get his and try to control his teammates pretty much admitting there was no stopping Pete. 

 

Edited to add,  the ABA was such a fun league to watch, shame what happened to it and an even bigger shame that the Colonels didn't get in the NBA due to numbnuts John Y taking the money and ran.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Underdog

[Hate 20106]

Tom Chambers has the best white man dunk of all time. I know he was 6'10", but how inthe hell did he get that high??  Look at where his goddamn head is!!!  It's even with the rim.  How does that happen??

[immortal13 4059]

That dunk was epic

[Uncle Boobs 1248]

The knee to the chest and chin takes it up a notch.

[Beau Vine 54204]

12 hours ago, Hate said:

Tom Chambers has the best white man dunk of all time. I know he was 6'10", but how inthe hell did he get that high??  Look at where his goddamn head is!!!  It's even with the rim.  How does that happen??

Obviously not a white guy.  Get him out of this thread.

[Beau Vine 54204]

15 hours ago, cafe society said:

You know, back then, you didn't get to see every game on television; there were selected games of the week on the college and pro level.  I remember watching Maravich and his underdog Tigers taking it to a much better and deeper Issel-led Wildcat team one Saturday.  Issel has been mentioned already, I would love to have seen his career entirely in the NBA.  Magnificent all-around game for a big man.

That '85 Nuggets teams with Issel, Alex English, Fat Lever leading them in rebounding, and Bill Hanzlik playing PF were awfully gotdam frustrating to watch. And I'm sure Spurs and Rockets fans would agree with me.

And fuck Danny Schayes, too.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Beau Vine

[Underdog 28544]

With Doug Moe at the helm. 

[Deej 76750]

4 hours ago, Uncle Boobs said:

The knee to the chest and chin takes it up a notch.

That knee to the chest propelled him up about another foot. 

[cafe society 2860]

18 hours ago, Underdog said:

The Pete/Issel matchups were legendary, was reported that Rupp would let Pete get his and try to control his teammates pretty much admitting there was no stopping Pete. 

 

Edited to add,  the ABA was such a fun league to watch, shame what happened to it and an even bigger shame that the Colonels didn't get in the NBA due to numbnuts John Y taking the money and ran.  

The Colonels were damn good, having both Issel and Gilmore inside, and Dampier, Combs and Mount chunking in 3s left and right.  The ABA was great fun, we used to go watch the Chaps at Moody Coliseum.

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

If we are counting college I don’t see how Bill Walton can be lower than 3rd all time- if we aren’t I suppose he’s at the bottom of the top 10. 

Bird

West

Dirk

Rick Barry (severely underrated bc he was an asshole hated by all and the granny shot)

Thats your Rushmore- NBA careers only- All MVP’s and best players on title teams .

after that give me:

Nash

Stockton

McHale

Walton

Pistol Pete

Sabonis/laetner in a tie for number 10 as the greatest international and college basketball players of my lifetime  

I’m sure I’m forgetting someone really obvious  

I didn’t count anyone prior to the nba bring pretty fully integrated  

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Love seeing Bobby Sura in the op.


Honorable mention: Trevor winter

[Iceman 2690]

That looks like some dude that even got picked last at rec league.

[TommyGufano 6021]

4 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If we are counting college I don’t see how Bill Walton can be lower than 3rd all time- if we aren’t I suppose he’s at the bottom of the top 10. 

Bird

West

Dirk

Rick Barry (severely underrated bc he was an asshole hated by all and the granny shot)

Thats your Rushmore- NBA careers only- All MVP’s and best players on title teams .

after that give me:

Nash

Stockton

McHale

Walton

Pistol Pete

Sabonis/laetner in a tie for number 10 as the greatest international and college basketball players of my lifetime  

I’m sure I’m forgetting someone really obvious  

I didn’t count anyone prior to the nba bring pretty fully integrated  

 

If I'm going to nitpick here: I think Walton meets your Rushmore criteria (1978 MVP and best player on 1977 Blazers; though his exclusion certainly adds up when you consider he barely played more than 5 season's worth of games in his career), and Barry lacks an MVP season on his resume (unless if you meant finals MVP) 

[Iceman 2690]

If college, then Laettner?