Buying a Car

[Chico_SA 521]

I think we have the time.  Is it worth it to repair the scrape?  It is a scrape and small indention on a door.  She rubbed against a gate post : (

[Joe John 0]

On 7/18/2018 at 7:22 PM, Chico_SA said:

We found a used vehicle that we are interested in.  We don't NEED to trade are car in to get it and will pay cash.  

The current vehicle, a 2013 Rouge with only 34,000 miles has a few cosmetic things (thank you wife) that can be fixed by a body shop friend of ours.  Is it better to fix the issues and sell our own?    I just know if I trade in they will point to the scrapes and knock a shit load down. 

I've also heard you can just go sell your vehicle at CarMax and get a better deal than you would for a trade in.  Thoughts on that? 

You'll be surprised what the dealer will offer you for this vehicle.  There isn't many vehicles in the market right now especially 2008-2013 (significantly less amount of vehicles were made during these years) and with the good miles on yours you should be able to get decent money.

No one uses KBB unless you're on the west coast.  All dealers look at either MMR Auction values or NADA Book values.

[phdhorn 6224]

I always thought that trade-ins are bogus bullshit in the fact that they're just autonomous bargaining pieces to help you get a deal, rarely considered at their "true" price in the context of back-and-forth.  If some dealer thinks you're $5K away from a deal and you bring him a 1968 VW beetle with 3 wheels and no engine, he'll give you $4K for it just to get the deal.  Consequently if you mistakenly reveal you're pretty much able to pay for the car, they'll give you like a grand for your beautiful 3 year old Lexus with 10,000 miles.  "Trade-ins" are just (again IMHO) nothing but pieces of metal that are excuses to close the deal.

The "real price" of a trade-in in my experience is irrelevant.  Even the honks who say you should reveal a trade-in after doing the raw new car deal (yeah, good luck with that... playing "hide and seek"!) mistakenly think a trade-in is always negotiated at its value.   They can give you whatever the fuck they want, sometimes too high, sometimes too low, often not the real assessed value.

So if you're considering fixing the "scrape", I'd say do the deal first and see what you can get for the new car (with trade-in).  If you don't like the price, you can always say, "Okay, I'm not happy with this price, so tell you what, I'm leaving, going to get the car's dings repaired, then I'll be back."  Which really isn't even disingenuous -  it's good business sense.  My guess is they'll shit... they HATE when a customer walks away in the "pencil on paper" phase, when you're right there.  I'd be surprised if they didn't suddenly offer you a grand more for the car if that's the only deal blocker.  Use it to your advantage.

Edited July 21, 2018 by phdhorn

[Joe John 0]

I currently work in the Automotive industry as an asset manager.  I put over 2,000 vehicles into the used car market last year and have some advice after reading through this thread.

West coast only uses KBB.  Typically everyone in Texas will use NADA Book value or MMR Auction value to give you the value of your trade.

Dealers are hardly making any money on new vehicles now a days.  They won't make much if any on the front end (the purchase price) but will on the back end (financing, warranties, any thing offered to you by the finance person).  I don't think I would ever buy a new car because it is a deprecating asset and especially in that first 1-2 years.  I have leased the past two vehicles for my wife.  I always advise this is you can adhere to the mileage restrictions (these are negotiable too.)

There is some really good advice about negotiating on this thread.  Pinning dealers against each other, doing it by email or text, knowing what you want your monthly payment to be. 

 

[Joe John 0]

3 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I always thought that trade-ins are bogus bullshit in the fact that they're just barganing pieces to help you get a deal.  If some dealer thinks you're $5K away from a deal and you bring him a 1968 VW beetle with 3 wheels and no engine, he'll give you $4K for it just to get the deal.  Consequently if you mistakenly reveal you're pretty much able to pay for the car, they'll give you like a grand for your beautiful 3 year old Lexus with 10,000 miles.  "Trade-ins" are just (again IMHO) nothing but pieces of metal that are excuses to close the deal.

The "real price" of a trade-in in my experience is irrelevant.  Even the honks who say you should reveal a trade-in after doing the raw new car deal (yeah, good luck with that... playing "hide and seek"!) mistakenly think a trade-in is always negotiated at its value.   They can give you whatever the fuck they want, sometimes too high, sometimes too low, often not the real assessed value.

I agree with this. 

If they need to sell that vehicle you're interested in they can make up a number and make sure they get the car sold they need to move.  But I would never settle for less than a price I think is fair.  You're the customer you can walk away you have the bargaining power in this case.

[Joe John 0]

On 7/18/2018 at 7:37 PM, Chico_SA said:

I think we have the time.  Is it worth it to repair the scrape?  It is a scrape and small indention on a door.  She rubbed against a gate post : (

Not sure iv you have an SV and live in Texas but in your case I would take less than $11,000 for that Rouge from a dealer.  Also if you try to sell it on your own you might get $12,500 - $13,000 max but that it. So yes you can get more but it's tough to sell a vehicle privately in my opinion.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Joe John
adding picture

[Chico_SA 521]

Thank you! Very helpful

[Dbeasy 15051]

Shaggy also had an awesome thread on this topic where a dealershipsales manager posted how to negotiate with the dealerships. I wish someone would past that over here. I don’t want to visit a scat porn site.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

Where are all of you buying these 2-3 year old bargains? Private sales off craigslist? When I scan dealer, certified pre-owned, carmax, etc. the 2-3 year old models are maybe $3k less than a new car. At that price, I’d personally rather pay the extra and have the new model, no miles, no potential hidden history, longer manufacturer warranty. 

[Longhorn Fever 267]

On 7/22/2018 at 8:40 AM, Murfdogg21 said:

Where are all of you buying these 2-3 year old bargains? Private sales off craigslist? When I scan dealer, certified pre-owned, carmax, etc. the 2-3 year old models are maybe $3k less than a new car. At that price, I’d personally rather pay the extra and have the new model, no miles, no potential hidden history, longer manufacturer warranty. 

This exactly. I see vehicles with 50-80k miles priced within $3-5k of new. I know there is a little more negotiation room, but new cars often have incentives. Where ARE you all finding these cars?

[Okie State 3821]

That's exactly why I bought new this last time even though I swore I never would. A manufacturer sale put the price of new just a couple grand more than used. Was a no brainer in that scenario for me.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

The last two vehicles I’ve purchased I was able to negotiate online over several days between multiple dealerships and got a price at or near invoice with some additional incentives by (initially) going with their financing, then flipping it over to my credit union after a month. Looking at one or even two year old vehicles of the same model and package, they were (list) priced above what I paid. Maybe I could have haggled them down to below what I paid for new, but I’m driving a newer model, no miles, no hidden history, longer warranty, better resale value since it is newer. I tried to find a good used car but I didn’t see the value in what I found.  

[GottaB 594]

I got used at howdy Honda for kbb price for used 2 year old model which was several thousand less than new and under 20k mileage. This has not been my experience with other dealerships in the past.

I think what people are seeing is the dealership will offer auction price or less for a three year old trade in so people will sell it themselves for a few thousand more.

Example: I traded in a three year old Dodge Charger a few years ago. It was the new body style so that wasn’t an issue. Trade in value (per kbb) was $19k. They offered $16k. Private sale value was $21k and dealer used price listings In the area with similar features and mileage i saw were $23k. A new listing for same model two years newer were low 30s.

If you buy used from a private seller that doesn’t want to be screwed by the dealer but doesn’t want to spend time haggling, you could save $10k on a low mileage used car.

[GottaB 594]

Or look at suggested values from KBB

 

Honda Accord EX

2017 new $26k

2017 used $21k dealer $20k private party

2015 used $16k dealer $15k private party

 

 

 

[GottaB 594]

Where are all of you buying these 2-3 year old bargains? Private sales off craigslist? When I scan dealer, certified pre-owned, carmax, etc. the 2-3 year old models are maybe $3k less than a new car. At that price, I’d personally rather pay the extra and have the new model, no miles, no potential hidden history, longer manufacturer warranty. 

If you keep a search going for a month on any of the online used cars sites (caravan, auto trader, cars.com, etc) you’ll find good deals. Carmax is inflated on sales just like most dealers just not as inflated. And their price offers on trade ins is just above auction.

[LTtxfan 49188]

Went to see a used car at a dealership, and car salesperson acted like he didn't know that the car had lots of hail damage on it...

Geez!!!

Edited July 16, 2020 by LTtxfan

[BottleRocket 646]

I’ve been looking at buying a used Jeep Wrangler for several months at Carvana and have noticed that about 95% have a status of pending sale. Is there a shortage of used cars due to C19 or something? What gives?

[Chewbacca 7780]

I’ve been looking at buying a used Jeep Wrangler for several months at Carvana and have noticed that about 95% have a status of pending sale. Is there a shortage of used cars due to C19 or something? What gives?

I'm looking for a Lexus LX 570. The market is fucked right now.

[MoJames 8244]

And is anyone noticing any unforeseen issues with working with a group like Vroom or Carvana?

[Dahobbs 17534]

31 minutes ago, MoJames said:

And is anyone noticing any unforeseen issues with working with a group like Vroom or Carvana?

Delivery time/day isn't always when they say it will be. You'll have to flexible there. Other than that, your typical used car issues when not purchasing certified from the dealer. 

[MoJames 8244]

And certified from the dealer suggests they did some 50 point inspection?

[Dahobbs 17534]

15 minutes ago, MoJames said:

And certified from the dealer suggests they did some 50 point inspection?

I don't know about that, but you do typically get an extension on the manufacturer's warranty. And if there are issues that arise soon after the purchase, the dealer has to address them. Carvana and Vroom will not. But I don't think there is anything wrong with purchasing through Carvana and Vroom. Just answering your question. 

[TwiceHorn 31475]

31 minutes ago, MoJames said:

And certified from the dealer suggests they did some 50 point inspection?

I don't place a ton of value on the condition of the car because it's CPO.  The value in CPO, if any, is the extension of warranty.  I think CPO does indicate generally that it hasn't been wrecked, even minorly and some of that can escape detection by carfax.  A lot of CPO programs will certify cars with higher mileage than I would be comfortable with (more than say 15k/year).

That said, after looking at a particular model for months and having a pretty good idea of pricing, I purchased a very low miles CPO from the Sewell group of companies, which has always prided itself on "customer service."  I was pretty impressed with the care they took with the car cosmetically.  They refinished the wheels, put touch up on the little dings and scrapes (one that I found), replaced the air dam up front that had been scraped and had the insert cracked etc.  

I bought CPO for the extended warranty because I am vaguely afraid of turbocharged engines still, and, you can never quite tell exactly, but the CPO premium wasn't equivalent to the cost of of an open-market extended warranty and I get dealer service without deductible for better or worse.  Dealers may have an incentive for warranty service when it comes to CPO, meaning they can price pretty competitively on the idea that they will benefit from being paid by the mfr. for warranty work for a couple of extra years, when more problems crop up.

Edited April 30, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Gil Bang 25960]

I bought a CPO Mercedes specifically because of the warranty. And, unfortunately, that warranty has come in handy on a couple of occasions (new transmission).

And, I’m not ashamed to admit that I do enjoy driving a nice new Mercedes loaner car for free when my car is in the shop.

[GottaB 594]

But Japanese. Lease European.

[LebongJames 1811]

Lease terms are not great right now. Money is cheap