Fuck Kinder Morgan and The Permian Highway Pipeline

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

https://www.law360.com/articles/1260751/texas-court-orders-patience-for-covid-delay-in-pipeline-row

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Also, not certain, but I'd guess likely related, the day after KM naaaailed it.

https://ktxs.com/news/texas/police-investigating-after-blanco-mayor-receives-death-threat

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

KM applying their craftsmanship to fencing. Fuck residents' livestock.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156624606497723&id=586497722

[RPM 26228]

JFC that audio was worse than KM.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Mr. Slade, who volunteered his professional expertise and opinion for the analyses, put his stamp on a report that includes six constituents known as Class 1 carcinogens found in excess of EPA drinking water regulations, including aluminum, arsenic, beryllium, cadmium, chromium and nickel. In interpreting this data, it is important to note that this was one sampling event right after the incident and concentrations are expected to lessen over time. However, according to Mr. Slade’s report, “Many pollutants including carcinogens are known to be contained in the spilled drilling fluid, despite denial of such by a Kinder Morgan spokes[person].”

http://wimberleywatershed.org/2020/04/15/trace-metal-levels-exceed-epa-drinking-water-standards/

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

However, these data are not necessarily indicative of the presence of pollutants from the drilling fluid loss. For example, depending upon the chemical form of the metals present in the WVWA sample, all or most metals are soluble in water thus could be dissolved in water and not limited to inclusion in sediment.

And it seems Mr. Baker and the WVWA have a past history of drumming up crises in order to solicit donations for their organization.

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

1. What is that quote from?

2. That "necessarily" seems like a really key word in there, particularly in light of the last quote I quoted of Raymond Slade, Jr (a certified professional geologist with 35 years at USGS and 17 years as a hydrology consultant in Central Texas)-

"Many pollutants including carcinogens are known to be contained in the spilled drilling fluid, despite denial of such by a Kinder Morgan spokes[person]."

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

The quote is from the first link in the report you linked - i.e. Slade’s full two page report. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Fudge Nuggets

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Ah, I just went through the summation. That makes this sound even less than someone "drumming up" a crisis.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

I noticed in the link that they claim to have collected 17 samples from 11 wells, but only posted the results of this one sample.  Some of the samples were from prior to the incident so they would provide a baseline, why weren’t any of them included?

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

Slade isn’t drumming up a crisis.  The WVWA on the other hand has a track record and they are the ones that submitted the samples for testing.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Well Slade is providing evidence on behalf of WVWA and given he's providing potentially exculpatory opinion seems the only relevant thing here. It illustrates he's acting in good faith.

Then you have Kinder Morgan (did you check out their "fence" I posted upthread?). Slade sounds matter-of-factly that 1) the drilling fluid contains these carcinogens 2) Kinder Morgan has denied it.

[TwiceHorn 31274]

Fudge Nuggets has a pretty good handle on being an expert witness.

While that is an extremely inartfully worded paragraph he quoted, you don't dare put something like that in an expert's opinion for litigation.

You may concede something like that on the witness stand, but you don't admit it in your first report.

Also notable is that he doesn't conclude anywhere in the report that those metals came from the drilling fluid.  Or compare before-and-after samples.

It looks like I'm supporting KM here and I'm really not.  But I am suspicious of ecofanatics as well.

Also, don't be too overwhelmed with credentials. KM is likely to have an equally credentialed expert with an opposite opinion.  The cynical call them all whores, but the more reasoned approach is that there is room for disagreement in matters technical and scientific.

 

All that said, those metals sound like ingredients from an industrial grease or lubricant.  They may be present in bentonite mud as mining byproducts, but I kind of doubt it (bentonite and clays come from sedimentary formations not known for the presence of metal ores).

Edited April 16, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

You and Slade are insinuating that KM willingly added something to the drilling fluid that contains carcinogens.  The main reason I know this is not correct is adding "stuff" to drilling fluid costs money.  When you can drill your bore with just water and clay, that's what you use - why spend money on something you don't need and won't do anything but cause grief?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

What Slade is saying is as I'm reading it-

1. these carcinogens are in the drilling fluid

2. Kinder Morgan has denied these carcinogens are in their drilling fluid

3. these same carcinogens are in at least one well above allowable EPA levels near the site of the fuck up Kinder Morgan assured wouldn't happen

Edited April 16, 2020 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[TwiceHorn 31274]

9 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

What Slade is saying is as I'm reading it-

1. these carcinogens are in the drilling fluid

2. Kinder Morgan has denied these carcinogens are in their drilling fluid

3. these same carcinogens are in at least one well above allowable EPA levels 

1. Is only inferable from that document.

2.  That seems to be correct

3.  "same carcinogens" again is inferable but not stated.

I don't know if this is Slade not being used to doing reports for litigation, or if he was left rudderless by attorneys, or if it's a really cynical attempt to infer something that may not exist.

It's an horrible expert report for litigation.  Any such report should have a conclusion or statements somewhere that eliminate this kind of speculation by laypeople and non-experts.

Edited April 16, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31274]

17 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You and Slade are insinuating that KM willingly added something to the drilling fluid that contains carcinogens.  The main reason I know this is not correct is adding "stuff" to drilling fluid costs money.  When you can drill your bore with just water and clay, that's what you use - why spend money on something you don't need and won't do anything but cause grief?

Any chance that shit is in bentonite mud just as trace elements?  

For the peanut gallery, there are special purpose drilling fluids that contain all kinds of funky shit, as Fudge Nuggets alludes.  Most of that funky shit is still pretty benign.  There's no reason to be using expensive mud with funky shit in it on this little project.

So it is true, possibly, that "drilling mud" contains "pollutants."  But there are dozens or hundreds, or thousands of formulae for drilling mud.  It's not some monolithic nasty substance.  You can't really generalize about it.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

There could always be minuscule trace amounts but not at the levels shown in the report.  The aquifer water could leech trace amounts from the surrounding formation which is what Slade is saying in the excerpt I quoted above.  From what I gather, trace amounts of arsenic and other metals are not uncommon in water wells.

I wonder if an independent third party took well water samples before drilling started? 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

46 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While that is an extremely inartfully worded paragraph he quoted, you don't dare put something like that in an expert's opinion for litigation.

You may concede something like that on the witness stand, but you don't admit it in your first report.

 

This is more an indictment of the confluence of corporations and the legal system and why we ultimately end up with the Donald Trumps of the world who are rewarded for never admitting anything and operating in bad faith as SOP.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

Oh ffs.

From the wikipedia page on bentonite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite   The damn stuff is used in landfills, sealing of groundwater sources and wait for it... seal off the annulus of water wells.

It's also used in wine making.

 

Quote

 

Groundwater barrier

The property of swelling on contact with water makes sodium bentonite useful as a sealant, since it provides a self-sealing, low-permeability barrier. It is used to line the base of landfills to prevent migration of leachate, for quarantining metal pollutants of groundwater, and for the sealing of subsurface disposal systems for spent nuclear fuel.^[10] Similar uses include making slurry walls, waterproofing of below-grade walls, and forming other impermeable barriers, e.g., to seal off the annulus of a water well, to plug old wells.

Bentonite can also be "sandwiched" between synthetic materials to create geosynthetic clay liners (GCLs) for the aforementioned purposes. This technique allows for more convenient transport and installation, and it greatly reduces the volume of bentonite required. It is also used to form a barrier around newly planted trees to constrain root growth so as to prevent damage to nearby pipes, footpaths and other infrastructure. Farmers use bentonite to seal retention ponds and line canals.

 

But this is probably just more corporate propaganda.

 

[Continental Op 3934]

Look guys it doesn't matter how many carcinogens you have to drink because if oil goes down more then every motherfucker who turns a wrench in an oil field won't be able to buy a King Ranch Ford F150 and that is what matters here. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Continental Op

[luke duke 6388]

No self-respecting oilfield worker would own a 1/2 ton truck. 3/4 ton diesel or bigger

[TwiceHorn 31274]

13 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

This is more an indictment of the confluence of corporations and the legal system and why we ultimately end up with the Donald Trumps of the world who are rewarded for never admitting anything and operating in bad faith as SOP.

Yeah, no.  The legal system employing expert witnesses has been like that for a long time.  About a half century now.

If that is a litigation expert report, it is woefully imprecise and either poorly lawyered or not lawyered at all.

Nice try.

Edited April 17, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31274]

13 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Oh ffs.

From the wikipedia page on bentonite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite   The damn stuff is used in landfills, sealing of groundwater sources and wait for it... seal off the annulus of water wells.

It's also used in wine making.

 

But this is probably just more corporate propaganda.

 

My next door neighbor's lot had a pool filled in and we have a clay aquifer about 12 feet down.  When they prepped the soil for the new house, they used about 40 bags of bentonite mud to stabilize things.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, no.  The legal system employing expert witnesses has been like that for a long time.  About a half century now.

If that is a litigation expert report, it is woefully imprecise and either poorly lawyered or not lawyered at all.

Nice try.

I have no reason to doubt you, but I'm not arguing this from a legal standpoint. I'm arguing this from a decent human being standpoint. On one hand, FN insinuates this is just being drummed up without just cause, I counter that the witness seems honest and provides potentially exculpatory evidence and therefore not a case of some duplicitous ulterior motive, only to have you point out his transparency was the legally horrible thing to do. It's a fucked up system that punishes honesty and rewards assholes

As a truck driver, it's drilled into you at the larger firms that if you're in an accident NEVER, EVER, EVER say you're sorry even if it's your fault. 

Does that remind you of anyone?

It's a culture seen in other professions. https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/13/medical-errors-doctors/

The system has now put the burden of proof on residents of far more limited means than KM who were just minding their own business, had their property seized for the purpose of others' profit, had their water fouled after given assurances it wouldn't, and KM's actions have all been taken cognizant of where the system places the burden. Hence "well, what were the carcinogens levels before we did what said we wouldn't do? Prove it." It's why, despite public pushback to this pipeline, Kinder Morgan still feels comfortable enough in its indifference to throw up wiring that's just a notch above police tape for livestock fencing to delineate their newly acquired property. And, as I'm sure Kinder Morgan is well aware, being they lobbied for it, if residents protest on what used to be their property, thanks to a brand new law passed by the Texas Legislature, they're subject to a felony charge and a fine of up to half a million dollars- twice the cap Texas placed on medical malpractice damages.

https://www.kut.org/post/new-texas-pipeline-protest-law-about-more-pipelines

https://www.texasobserver.org/pipeline-protest-bill-passes-texas-legislature-felony/

Fucked. Up. System.

 

 

[RPM 26228]

I wouldn't be surprised to find trace elements of heavy metals. Just the mining and processing could contaminate the bentonite. What the ecowarriors are trying to push is a fracking liquid scenario. That stuff is full of all kinds of nasty shit. Bentonite drilling mud, as has been stated many times, is benign unless they add something for a special complication they are dealing with. That doesn't sound like the case here.

If it sounds like I'm defending KM, I'm not. They definitely screwed the pooch. I'm interested in those before drilling water tests.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Just as relevant, I think, is what happens to subsequent carcinogens levels.

[Nivek 16859]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:23 AM, TwiceHorn said:

1. Is only inferable from that document.

2.  That seems to be correct

3.  "same carcinogens" again is inferable but not stated.

I don't know if this is Slade not being used to doing reports for litigation, or if he was left rudderless by attorneys, or if it's a really cynical attempt to infer something that may not exist.

It's an horrible expert report for litigation.  Any such report should have a conclusion or statements somewhere that eliminate this kind of speculation by laypeople and non-experts.

From what I read, it was only a preliminary report, and additional analysis of the waters would be conducted, and they were looking for residents in the region to provide them with additional samples if they notice obvious sediment or odor from their water that was not previously there.   

You are correct that there is no background study from before, but I think it is safe to assume the owners were not experiencing muddy water prior to KM's actions.  Slade recognizes that water soluble metals can be naturally occurring.     I did find one  2017 report which had Barium on it from the region an the value was 1/80th the value that was recorded in Slade's analysis.  I am sure there are more reports out there.  

Many people seem to dismiss trace amounts as harmless - MTBE will make your water smell like turpentine in concentrations as little at 20 parts per billion.   An epidemiological survey can also be run on the region as metals such as arsenic tend to cause diarrhea disease and visible lesions with continued exposure.   

It is not a bad report.  It is just not a legal report which values opinion as certainty.  Remember courts have held up that fingerprints were unique and bite marks could be analyzed for years only to now realize there was no evidence supporting those claims.   A good lawyer can make a great scientist look like a fool in court, just as Maywether did to that MMA fighter who was in the wrong ring.   

 

[TwiceHorn 31274]

My argument about Slade's report is of a legal nature.

In the bigger picture, it leaves an impression that there is metal carcinogen contamination in the groundwater as a result of whatever KM fucked up.

As a lawyer, that impression is suspect.  Even a nonlegal eagle can see that the Slade report doesn't come out and say that there are carcinogenic compounds in the groundwater as a result of the KM fuckup.  It dances around it, but never says it.

It is my educated guess that some grease or lubricant from the drilling assembly got into the groundwater and by some phenomenon became concentrated in the water in that particular well.  As Slade notes, those concentrations are probably fleeting or ephemeral and don't pose any real health hazard.

Having muddy water sucks, but as FN notes, is kind of a hazard of having well water.

Still and all, KM fucked up something that should have been avoided easily by either not doing their geo survey homework or a fucked up drilling plan, or both.

[TwiceHorn 31274]

8 minutes ago, Nivek said:

 

It is not a bad report.  It is just not a legal report which values opinion as certainty. 

 

It's not opinion as certainty, it's just a matter of precision.  Courts dealing with science are only as good as the parties and advocates before them are good with science.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Interested in who the drilling contractor is.  Highly doubt it's actually KM.  Have some C-suite friends in the HDD industry, and curious more than anything.

Edited April 17, 2020 by fattyflattie

[fattyflattie 4636]

12 hours ago, luke duke said:

No self-respecting oilfield worker man would own a 1/2 ton truck. 3/4 ton diesel or bigger

FIFY

[luke duke 6388]

Interested in who the drilling contractor is.  Highly doubt it's actually KM.  Have some C-suite friends in the HDD industry, and curious more than anything.

 

There’s a 0.1% chance it’s KM. Their contractor fucked them over pretty bad.

[fattyflattie 4636]

12 minutes ago, luke duke said:

 

There’s a 0.1% chance it’s KM. Their contractor fucked them over pretty bad.

I agree. But I’m not familiar with KM at all, so figured it may be bizarro world or something.  Producers/=/contractors   

[fattyflattie 4636]

On 4/14/2020 at 11:10 PM, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

KM applying their craftsmanship to fencing. Fuck residents' livestock.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156624606497723&id=586497722

That is a POS fence.  Love how the guy disappears off the comments when people start to ask if he was compensated?  Narrator - He was. 

100% guarantee that fence won't stand up in their agreement, and KM's contractor will be rebuilding that fence.  That guy needs to be there when that work is happening.  He shouldn't have to be, but he should.  "They mulched 100's of my trees". No, they cleared the ROW per survey, like you agreed, when you took 2.5x value of your land in a ROW agreement.  STFU and hassle them about the fence, leave the Facebook woe is me bullshit.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Your dismissive "woe is me" comment to a valid grievance and reference to an "agreement" in a situation where there is no willing seller is precisely the indifference Kinder Morgan put into the construction of that fence and, probably safe to assume, pipeline.

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Your dismissive "woe is me" comment to a valid grievance and reference to an "agreement" in a situation where there is no willing seller is precisely the indifference Kinder Morgan put into the construction of that fence and, probably safe to assume, pipeline.

Dudes fence got fucked up, no doubt.  He should be on the phone with his attorney AND ROW agent already, and has every right to be pissed about it.  He will receive a new fence and maybe some $$ for it.  

But he took money, very very good money, for access to that ROW.  He knew exactly where it would be, and exactly what would be removed from that surveyed section.  So bitching about the hundreds of removed trees comes down to two things 1) buyers remorse, or 2) whiny bitch.  Either way, going to Facebook to cry about your ROW being cleared after you took money for it is silly and bitchmade.  I look forward to his further Facebook whining when they come trench it and lay. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by fattyflattie
words, what do they mean.

[Updawg 2261]

Did he have a choice in selling? Eminent domain would take it one way or another

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

He has virtually no other choice other than to accept the money. He could have spent his money fighting it, but it's virtually assured he was going to lose his land that he wasn't selling to a private company pursuing their private profits exporting fossil fuels to foreign countries that was made possible by the Texas GOP who used to preen in the not too distant past as private property rights advocates which, of course, they never were. It was just the most convenient principle to adopt in order to serve their donor class at the time.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:57 PM, fattyflattie said:

Dudes fence got fucked up, no doubt.  He should be on the phone with his attorney AND ROW agent already, and has every right to be pissed about it.  He will receive a new fence and maybe some $$ for it.  

But he took money, very very good money, for access to that ROW.  He knew exactly where it would be, and exactly what would be removed from that surveyed section.  So bitching about the hundreds of removed trees comes down to two things 1) buyers remorse, or 2) whiny bitch.  Either way, going to Facebook to cry about your ROW being cleared after you took money for it is silly and bitchmade.  I look forward to his further Facebook whining when they come trench it and lay. 

"They are literally threatening people, taking land, digging trenches, cutting trees and proceeding so that by the time you get a resolution one way or another you're arguing over a project that is often in the ground. The net effect of that is that the only thing a landowner gets to argue if you don't sign an easement by the time you get to court all that's left is the dollar amount because the details about where they've sited the pipeline whether or not you moved it off your prime pasture land or against the edge of your property or didn't take out the tree where your great-grandma was buried or whatever all of that stuff he's now moot because they've already put the thing in the ground."

-- Richard Averitt

"We went to court on February 7th of 2018 and I was totally prepared to go to court and make a statement and testify. I
always thought that everybody had their day in court. But the judge in his infinite wisdom decided only four people in the Southern District of West Virginia would get a chance to testify and I wasn't one of them. So that was the first agreements and my civil rights were violated that day by not allowing me to testify."

-- Maury Johnson

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Huh

https://www.kxan.com/news/blanco-chief-retires-amid-kxan-investigation-into-pipeline-security-guards/

[fattyflattie 4636]

56 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Huh

https://www.kxan.com/news/blanco-chief-retires-amid-kxan-investigation-into-pipeline-security-guards/

My brother was making something absurd, 45-50/hr, as p/l security when he was still doing the sheriffs dept thing.  Pretty routine. Did this guy do something shady that the article failed to mention?