Denis Villeneuve's Dune

[mr. sunshine 2827]

On 3/23/2024 at 12:22 PM, wild_turkey said:

Saw it yesterday and loved it. Beautifully shot.

Agreed. Second is the Alamo Drafthouse employee describing it's allsomeness as compared to Dune I which was also allsome just not as allsome.

This rated third behind a couple of guys reenacting John Wick 2 years ago when my son and I were eating breakfast. I think they were construction workers staying in a nearby motel so not nearly as violent but best floor show I've ever witnessed 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:23 AM, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

No sound?

On 4/4/2024 at 1:09 PM, rage-a-holic said:

That's a surly problem. The file I uploaded has sound and works fine.

It's a problem with Firefox at least on my end. I can't unmute the video in that browser (on desktop or mobile) but it works fine in Edge.

 

1 hour ago, rage-a-holic said:

There's a legit WEB-DL release of Dune 2 that just came out (not a CAM) if you're looking for a Friday night movie.

Oh FUCK yes snagging this right now for my NAS.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

Update: The 6.6gb copy is very good. Legit leak. I'm sure there will be others soon.

[Captainant 27677]

12 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Update: The 6.6gb copy is very good. Legit leak. I'm sure there will be others soon.

I get grabbing it for the personal media collection, but this is something that you'll be happier to rip and have your own copy of with full richness HDR and all the 4k goodness (once it's available). Plus you gotta support this kinda stuff if you wanna see more of it 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

12 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I get grabbing it for the personal media collection, but this is something that you'll be happier to rip and have your own copy of with full richness HDR and all the 4k goodness (once it's available). Plus you gotta support this kinda stuff if you wanna see more of it 

Oh I will for sure once it's available. There are a multitude of reasons I have no moral quandaries about stealing media, but I've spent literally hundreds of dollars in the theatres watching this with family and friends (5 times). I've paid my dues, they can let me have this until the Bluray is available.

[billfromlaketravis 11485]

How much longer will it be on IMAX screens? 

[mdmost 43002]

 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

Would recommend. Maybe the best IMAX experience I've ever had.

[mdmost 43002]

Will be available digitally on April 16th. Seems awfully early but you can still see it in IMAX. 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

18 hours ago, mdmost said:

Will be available digitally on April 16th. Seems awfully early but you can still see it in IMAX. 

45 days from mainstream theatrical release is pretty standard nowadays I believe.

[LCHorn 2620]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:05 PM, Brian Fantana said:

Would recommend. Maybe the best IMAX experience I've ever had.

I think mine was Avatar in 3D but this one is pretty great.  
 

Pretty much the only film I’ve ever seen at the Bullock IMAX and hated was Rise of Skywalker.  

[speed817 19282]

Such a cool opening scene......

[Rimbo 25939]

[Party_Taco 3731]

45 days from mainstream theatrical release is pretty standard nowadays I believe.

Took us a full month to get a ticket purchase authorized and through HR for distribution… gonna be a scramble to get our team to the theaters before it leaves…

[Sam Lin 3559]

[billfromlaketravis 11485]

Looks like I missed my window to see it again in IMAX. Oh well, I hope there’s another release before award season.

[crash_davis 23113]

Damn. Saw it for the 2nd time and it's even better. This may be the best movie I've ever watched. It's damned near perfect. I was sad the movie ended the first time, I'm more sad this time.

On 2nd viewing and with better understanding of Vil's vision for Paul and Lisan Al Gaib, Chani's character becomes much more relatable and hits the feels. Anyone bitching about her pouty role better also be bitching about Rabban's character which was basically consisted of pissed off yelling.

I eagerly await Vil's Holy War conclusion.

 

[Sam Lin 3559]

Spoiler

Difference is Rabban's character in the book literally was a muscle minded meathead and the movie quite well matched it, while Chani is a totally different character than the book, one that is less significant and far less developed. It shortchanges her character and does the Dune story a huge disservice.

 

[Party_Taco 3731]

FINALLY got to see this the day before it departs theatres and I’m so glad i saw this on the big screen. What a visual spectacle… the scale and use of color were simply masterful… I remain in awe, even if like others I’m also wanting for better character development in parts.

May end up streaming it this weekend… there was just too much to take in on a single viewing!

[bluto 4929]

Didn’t realize it was exiting theaters already, finally saw it last weekend. Friday 6pm showing and the upper half of theater was sold out. 

[futureman 22464]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:28 PM, crash_davis said:

Chani's character becomes much more relatable and hits the feels. Anyone bitching about her pouty role better also be bitching about Rabban's character which was basically consisted of pissed off yelling.

[Rimbo 25939]

I rewatched the first movie yesterday, and watched Part 2 today.

Overall, absolutely loved the movies. The costumes, the set designs, the acting, the cinematography, the SFX were all top-notch and on point; you could see where the money went. And it's great seeing some serious A-List actors, even in roles that don't have enough of a part for the movie.

Saw a review somewhere where someone referred to the book, the 1980s movie, and this pair as really emphasizing different things that reflected the times they were made in, and I think that's really true. Overall, I think the new movies did a great job of bringing to the screen a lot (but not all) of the complexity of the novel, and certainly didn't water anything down. And beyond that, even knowing what was coming (and for Part 1, even on the re-watch) I still felt awe and some "holy shit!" moments.

If I have a criticism, it's that I felt Part 2 had a bit too much of "Here's Paul and Chani staring at each other pensively" moments, when it was time to instead get the story moving. I'm all in favor of having lots of Zendaya on the screen in my movies, but do something; otherwise, I can just look at a still photo of the two actors and get the same experience.

I'm glad they actually gave Irulan something to do in this movie. But you could film Florence Pugh doing laundry and I'd be entertained.

OK, that's the spoiler-free bit. Now for some more spoiler-ific reviews.

Spoiler

I pretty much felt "holy shit" every time I saw a worm on the screen. And seeing the Fremen riding the worms was "holy fucking shit." Something that is in the book that's not in the movie is the whole bit about why the Sardukar are so dangerous and feared, and why the Fremen are more than a match for them: That they live their lives training for war in horribly hostile environments. When I see the Fremen riding the worms in Villeneuve's movies, it really sells the "Fremen are the most badass human beings in the known universe" without ever saying it explicitly.

I'm not sure if this is a criticism or not, but since it became a really important plot point at the end, I have to mention it: Villeneuve doesn't just shy away from the aristocracy and Fremen having concubines; he turns away from it and actually walks the other direction. We hear Duke Atreides say "I really should have married you" to Jessica, but from that point on, the idea that people are engaged in anything other than monogamous relationships is thrown aside. In the case of Jamis' wife Harah, this is a plus; Harah really contributes nothing to the original book and is a weird distraction in the Lynch movie. In the case of Chani, well, now we're not merely emphasizing something different from what's in the novel, we're writing something entirely new here. I want to see what Villeneuve does with Dune Messiah because I want to know if he's trying to send a deeper message here from "girlfriend jealous" or "tricking people into believing religious prophecy bad."

I mean... Paul is the Kwisatz Haderach; there's no lie in believing otherwise.

I was expecting Feyd Rautha to be cut from the film, not just because it took so long for the character to make an appearance, but because one of the key storylines in the novel is that the Baron is trying to set up Feyd as the saviour of Dune from the get-go; he deliberately encourages Rabban to be as brutal as possible to the Fremen, for Feyd to come along and win them over. In both movies, both Lynch's and Villeneuve's, when the Baron is telling Rabban to squeeeeeeeeze all the spice, he just seems like a greedy beast, not the "plans within plans" that are hinted at by Margot Fenring. In the book, this whole plot shows the schemes the Baron has in mind and the awareness of power he has beyond "I have more money because I have Arrakis' spice, yay."

I'd be curious to know if those of you who hadn't read the book, but have now seen Villeneuve's movies, caught what becoming a Bene Gesserit Mother Superior entails, beyond being able to convert poison you'd ingested. I grasped what was going on because I'd read the book, but I wonder if it is comprehensible to those who haven't.

 

[Rimbo 25939]

On 4/16/2024 at 1:28 PM, crash_davis said:

Rabban's character which was basically consisted of pissed off yelling

there's a reason the character's name is "Beast"

[Rimbo 25939]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:26 PM, rage-a-holic said:

Your take is just illogical and wrong. Both versions of Chani understood imperial politics and marriages.

Here's a good piece written about it by Dr. Laura Robinson, who is presumably not a misogynist incel neckbeard.

Does Denis Villaneuve Understand the Women of Dune?

 

Spoiler

This is an outstanding criticism that does an even better job of explaining why Chani's behavior felt... off.

And... yeah... I was sitting there at the end wondering... "Geez, I'm pretty sure Alia should be born and walking around by now!"

 

[billfromlaketravis 11485]

I watched it again. The Baron is on screen for what 5 minutes tops? I’d have to double check , but there are 10+ chapters from the Baron’s POV in the book. 
 

Also Giedi Prime is depicted as peak Roman Empire in black and white. It’s supposed to be a polluted industrial hell hole. I’ve always imagined the planet as a giant oil refinery. Lynch’s version looked campy as hell, but it was more true to the book.

Paul’s acceptance of Irulan is also problematic. He tells the emperor he’ll marry his daughter, but in name only. He’ll never consummate the marriage, and Chani shall be his consort and mother of his children. Paul and Chani just don’t seem to be clicking at the end of the film, which felt off given they’re much in love at the end of the book. 
 

Otherwise, I loved it. DV understands what Dune should look and sound like, and he built the films around this. 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

I watched it again. The Baron is on screen for what 5 minutes tops? I’d have to double check , but there are 10+ chapters from the Baron’s POV in the book. 
 
Also Giedi Prime is depicted as peak Roman Empire in black and white. It’s supposed to be a polluted industrial hell hole. I’ve always imagined the planet as a giant oil refinery. Lynch’s version looked campy as hell, but it was more true to the book.
Paul’s acceptance of Irulan is also problematic. He tells the emperor he’ll marry his daughter, but in name only. He’ll never consummate the marriage, and Chani shall be his consort and mother of his children. Paul and Chani just don’t seem to be clicking at the end of the film, which felt off given they’re much in love at the end of the book. 
 
Otherwise, I loved it. DV understands what Dune should look and sound like, and he built the films around this. 

As an illiterate, not being true to the book is a feature not a bug. Hearing “according to the book” - who gives a shit?

Regarding Lynch’s version, his casting decisions were phenomenal. As besotted as I am with Florence Pugh, Virginia Madsen was smoke. Wow, whoa what a beautiful woman!

Sean Young and Francesca Annis were striking. Hell, might as well add Sting to the list.

[billfromlaketravis 11485]

Has DV addressed no Alia in Dune 2? As rimbo’s link correctly points out, it messes up the whole timeline. Paul conquers Arrakis in 9 months, not 3 years. 

[billfromlaketravis 11485]

8 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

As an illiterate, not being true to the book is a feature not a bug. Hearing “according to the book” - who gives a shit?

Regarding Lynch’s version, his casting decisions were phenomenal. As besotted as I am with Florence Pugh, Virginia Madsen was smoke. Wow, whoa what a beautiful woman!

Sean Young and Francesca Annis were striking. Hell, might as well add Sting to the list.

Alicia Witt as Alia was extremely creepy. A toddler whacking their grandfather is some dark shit. 

[Rimbo 25939]

9 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Alicia Witt as Alia was extremely creepy. A toddler whacking their grandfather is some dark shit. 

That's the whole point, though. Alia should be disturbing; a toddler with the memories and knowledge of thousands of years' worth of Mother Superiors.

I can imagine leaving her out because (1) she's creepy and disturbing and (2)n really hard to get working on-screen.

I don't mind a modern take being different, but the issues that article brings up Re: Chani suggest that different ain't better.

[Levi 2586]

The timeline jump doesn’t bother me that much. In the book we’re here then boom, 2 years later. I don’t think the films condensed version hurts the overarching story outside Alia.  I agree with rimbo on the way Herbert portrayed her in the book and how it’s extremely hard to pull off on screen.  Having Alia be basically the same thing but inside of Jessica and mainly talking through Jessica was a nice substitute imo. 

Edited April 25 by Levi

[52-80 19159]

19 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

As an illiterate, not being true to the book is a feature not a bug. Hearing “according to the book” - who gives a shit?
 

his criticism is valid though of paul's sudden turn from being in teenage lust to 'oh yeah imma wed the emperor's daughter'.  that part was a bit short circuited

[ztejas 43454]

Finally got around to it at the Bob Bullock IMAX. Think it was the 2nd to last showing.

That was maybe the most impressive technical achievement I've ever seen on film. Rivals the PJ LOTR. The cinematography, sound and score were all incredible.

I didn't really know any of the story. The twist was solid. The whole thing reminded me of Empire in a good way. 

Chalamet and Zendaya were both powerhouse. I still think she looks weird but that bitch can act. Bardem was great and well deployed comic relief. Walken was a fun cameo. I loved the Baron's nephew as a character. 

Something I was wondering about is the Lisan Al-Gaib being an actual prophecy/fatalistic type thing or being more manufactured. I'm assuming it's sort of supposed to be open for interpretation and like a crossing of timelines/time is cyclical/an illusion type deal. 

I like how morally ambiguous the entire thing is. By the end Paul is just as much of a villain as he is a hero. That Herbet motherfucker could write. 

I'm hoping ATJ and Pugh take their clothes off in part 3.

[UT_OB1 2223]

The sand worm scene was so intense. I’ve read the books, multiple times. He rides a worm. I knew what was was happening, yet I was still holding my breath 

[Viper 12109]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Finally got around to it at the Bob Bullock IMAX. Think it was the 2nd to last showing.

That was maybe the most impressive technical achievement I've ever seen on film. Rivals the PJ LOTR. The cinematography, sound and score were all incredible.

I didn't really know any of the story. The twist was solid. The whole thing reminded me of Empire in a good way. 

Chalamet and Zendaya were both powerhouse. I still think she looks weird but that bitch can act. Bardem was great and well deployed comic relief. Walken was a fun cameo. I loved the Baron's nephew as a character. 

Something I was wondering about is the Lisan Al-Gaib being an actual prophecy/fatalistic type thing or being more manufactured. I'm assuming it's sort of supposed to be open for interpretation and like a crossing of timelines/time is cyclical/an illusion type deal. 

I like how morally ambiguous the entire thing is. By the end Paul is just as much of a villain as he is a hero. That Herbet motherfucker could write. 

I'm hoping ATJ and Pugh take their clothes off in part 3.

Lisan al gaib was manufactured by the bene gesserit thousands of years before Dune. It's left to the reader to decide if that is actually any different than an actual prophecy/religion. 

[futureman 22464]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I still think she looks weird but that bitch can act.

she didn’t do anything in the movie. there was no impressive display of acting.  maybe she was good in euphoria but I never saw it. 

[ztejas 43454]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

Lisan al gaib was manufactured by the bene gesserit thousands of years before Dune. It's left to the reader to decide if that is actually any different than an actual prophecy/religion. 

But at the same time he does ride the worm, he does survive the water of life, etc. 

I guess it's an interesting thought experiment. Like did the bene geserit just happen upon what would actually come to pass and create a narrative for it or did they sort of will it into fruition?

37 minutes ago, futureman said:

she didn’t do anything in the movie. there was no impressive display of acting.  maybe she was good in euphoria but I never saw it. 

She was pretty phenomenal. To each their own I guess. 

[futureman 22464]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

She was pretty phenomenal. To each their own I guess. 

phenomenal?  she had like six lines. 

[ztejas 43454]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:32 PM, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

She really does it for me.  Florence Pugh and Zendaya not so much. 

Florence Pugh is fuckin smoke. You're high. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

5 hours ago, ztejas said:

But at the same time he does ride the worm, he does survive the water of life, etc. 

I guess it's an interesting thought experiment. Like did the bene geserit just happen upon what would actually come to pass and create a narrative for it or did they sort of will it into fruition?

She was pretty phenomenal. To each their own I guess. 

 

It was a breeding program by the Gesserit.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

Florence Pugh is fuckin smoke. You're high. 

I mean, I guess if you like chubby chicks with no boobs, butt and an average face, then yeah. 

[Captainant 27677]

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

I guess it's an interesting thought experiment. Like did the bene geserit just happen upon what would actually come to pass and create a narrative for it or did they sort of will it into fruition?

Narratively the entire reason for the Bene Geserit is to put humanity on the "golden path" by creating the ultimate leader, the Kwizatch Haderach (definitely spelled that wrong). And it turns out that it overlaps pretty heavily with the Fremen religion that the BG seeded and the Liasn al Gaib 

[ztejas 43454]

1 hour ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

I mean, I guess if you like chubby chicks with no boobs, butt and an average face, then yeah. 

I guess I'm just old fashioned. 

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Narratively the entire reason for the Bene Geserit is to put humanity on the "golden path" by creating the ultimate leader, the Kwizatch Haderach (definitely spelled that wrong). And it turns out that it overlaps pretty heavily with the Fremen religion that the BG seeded and the Liasn al Gaib 

Thanks - I'll quit digging before I get part 3 spoiled. I had seen the 1984 Dune awhile ago but didn't really remember any of the details in how everything plays out. I didn't know the Baron was his grandfather or whether he wins the knife fight or not or that he doesn't marry Chani. Obviously I haven't read the books.

[Captainant 27677]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Thanks - I'll quit digging before I get part 3 spoiled. I had seen the 1984 Dune awhile ago but didn't really remember any of the details in how everything plays out. I didn't know the Baron was his grandfather or whether he wins the knife fight or not or that he doesn't marry Chani. Obviously I haven't read the books.

Herbert wrote Dune as a direct criticism of the fantasy trope of "the main character is the one true good guy who can right the wrongs", and is ultimately a cautionary tale against messiah figures. So I don't think Dune: Messiah is going to be a happy story as Paul and the rest of humanity learns the cost of walking the golden path

[ztejas 43454]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Herbert wrote Dune as a direct criticism of the fantasy trope of "the main character is the one true good guy who can right the wrongs", and is ultimately a cautionary tale against messiah figures. So I don't think Dune: Messiah is going to be a happy story as Paul and the rest of humanity learns the cost of walking the golden path

I didn't think part 2 was particularly happy. He basically turns away from his true love to birth a theocracy and start a holy war. To borrow from another fantastic commentary on morality:

But like you're saying that's what makes it interesting and multilayered. He envisions a bunch of shit options and goes down the path that he thinks will be the least shitty. And the universe he exists in already seems kind of fucked beyond repair. 

[UT_OB1 2223]

12 hours ago, Captainant said:

Herbert wrote Dune as a direct criticism of the fantasy trope of "the main character is the one true good guy who can right the wrongs", and is ultimately a cautionary tale against messiah figures. So I don't think Dune: Messiah is going to be a happy story as Paul and the rest of humanity learns the cost of walking the golden path

He also wrote it to show how a seemingly good person/leader, who doesn’t appear to be a hitler, can be just as bad due to the people / government turning him/her in to some sort of living mythological figure.   I think he was very unhappy with what he perceived as being done in JFKs name 

[Captainant 27677]

26 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

I think he was very unhappy with what he perceived as being done in JFKs name 

That seems like a bit of projection to me, Herbert's interviews about the book make it seem like he was in more of a literary conversation than a contemporary political one

[UT_OB1 2223]

48 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That seems like a bit of projection to me, Herbert's interviews about the book make it seem like he was in more of a literary conversation than a contemporary political one

Not really. Straight out of his mouth. 
 

Quote

Dune was aimed at this whole idea of the infallible leader because my view of history says mistakes made by a leader (or made in a leader's name) are amplified by the numbers who follow without question. That's how 900 people wound up in Guyana drinking poison Kool-Aid. That's how the U.S. said "Yes, sir, Mister Charismatic John Kennedy!" and found itself embroiled in Vietnam. . 

 

[Captainant 27677]

I'll be damned. Never read that before, thanks for sharing it 

[Sam Lin 3559]

22 hours ago, ztejas said:

I guess it's an interesting thought experiment. Like did the bene geserit just happen upon what would actually come to pass and create a narrative for it or did they sort of will it into fruition?

Spoiled bc bookfag.

Spoiler

It's both, and not intentionally. The BG have their Kwizatz Haderach program breeding towards the being who can transcend. They would have gotten there in another generation regardless of Paul or not, and most probably not on Arrakis.

The Lisan Al Gaib prophecy is directly mentioned and explained by Jessica early on when she arrives Arrakis and realizes that the "prophet from outer world" myth was seeded here earlier by their Missionaria Protectiva, with the understanding that they seed a myth of some sort everywhere they go that a trained BG can play in to to use as a survival/power tactic if they arrive later and need it. Book mentions that she recognizes the prophecy pattern and then shudders because that prophecy is only used in truly horrible environments (you're to understand that BG have some sort of a standard catalog of prophecy patterns and they implant them everywhere as a "safety net" for the future.

It's totally coincidental that Paul the Kwizatz Haderach happened to arrive on a planet that was prepped with that prophecy.

 

[futureman 22464]

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

Not really. Straight out of his mouth. 
 

 

link?