The Entitlement Thread -- Young Adults Being Stupid

[Iceman 2725]

30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

We'll just have to disagree on that.

Fair enough.  It's been my experience in life that people don't generally change their character.  It IS who they are.

That doesn't mean you never interact with them or help them when they are down.  It just means you know what the fuck is inside them- good or bad, either way.  In this thread example, the video is bad judgment.  the hatred is what's on their heart.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

I didn't say I could not forgive them.  I don't ignore 'indicators' in life that people give out either. 

If you are saying you think it’s unlikely they become new people I agree. 

But, I’m just not proactively declaring they can’t become new people and arguing that society benefits in some way from insuring that “their lives are fucked until they take their last breath” 

You are right that there is enough going on here that they have some serious atoning to do. This wasn’t some- you caught me at a bad time and place and that’s not really who I am most of the time type things. 

[TwiceHorn 31530]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

Fair enough.  It's been my experience in life that people don't generally change their character.  It IS who they are.

That doesn't mean you never interact with them or help them when they are down.  It just means you know what the fuck is inside them- good or bad, either way.  In this thread example, the video is bad judgment.  the hatred is what's on their heart.

Well, using racism as a particular example.  It is instinctive in humans to fear "other."  Blacks make a terrific other because their otherness is immediately apparent.  If you stay in a "do loop" of fearing otherness, or that particular otherness, then you won't change.

But if you engage your faculties. interact with that particular other, engage spirituality, you will lose that fear.  Hatred is nothing more than fear.

It's pretty well documented that racial "hatred" can be overcome.  There are dozens of fairly prominent examples.  Most recently the film Best of Enemies.

[TwiceHorn 31530]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If you are saying you think it’s unlikely they become new people I agree. 

But, I’m just not proactively declaring they can’t become new people and arguing that society benefits in some way from insuring that “their lives are fucked until they take their last breath” 

You are right that there is enough going on here that they have some serious atoning to do. This wasn’t some- you caught me at a bad time and place and that’s not really who I am most of the time type things. 

The question is how much is enough?

We as a society tend to err on the side of way too much.

Also, various things in society are "set up" such that a person is given little or no opportunity to demonstrate positive change.  

Edited April 19, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[RollLeft 5045]

What these kids need is a second chance.

-OU

[aggie08 21525]

12 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

What these kids need is a second chance.

-OU

The guy does look like he could make a few tackles if you lined him up at safety...

[gmr548 16608]

This video is revolting. They deserve to get fired or have their ticket revoked right now. But I do have a serious philosophical question about doxxing, rehabilitation and the like- whether it be for criminals or just people being criminally stupid, and that is this:

how long should people have to pay for a stupid action in their life as a youth, and what role should rehabilitation play in society?  Young people don’t have fully formed brains, or thought processes, and don’t know shit about life. Who is to say that they don’t, at some point in time in the future, figure out what hatefulness they were dealing with at this time and become better human beings, and how long should this affect them?  

Clearly in my mind the second chance shouldn’t start today or tomorrow, but should they be deprived of the opportunity to ever earn a living or get educated for life?  What if they become different people and are rehabilitated?  Similarly, what about people who are felons who do their time, learn their lesson and want to get their shit together? 

I’m uncomfortable with forever in most cases. That’s a long time and doesn’t let growth make up for dumb mistakes. 

 

Normally agree that kids doing dumb shit on the internet warrants a chuckle, a shrug, and some mild or moderate consequence.

 

This is way worse. By 17 you absolutely know the difference between dumb shit and vile hatred. If this is what they're made of now, that's not changing. The reality is they're white kids from Georgia. Their lives aren't going to be ruined over this. Plenty of people with hiring power in the south look at this and see no big deal. In the meantime, they deserve no sympathy. If you're willing to post that online in 2020, knowing full well what's likely to come of it based on others doing stuff like it before, then you deserve whatever consequence comes your way. If getting doxxed is what it takes for them to come to the realization that what they did was awful, then that's what it takes.

 

[gmr548 16608]

It's already been said, but, as always when I see things like this, I'm way more amazed by the stupidity required to rewatch the video they just made and come to the conclusion, "Yep, we should post that. People will get a kick out of it. We'll get some sweet Likes." than I am by the content itself.

Yeah I can't imagine, especially having seen this sort of thing backfire who knows how many times, thinking it would be a good idea to put this online. What has to go through your brain to get to that conclusion?

[52-80 19231]

16 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

"Blacks"

[po elvis 2076]

Having a hard time grasping how a public school has the right to expel them from school based on something they did out of school that was in their legal rights to do.

I understand if they were on a sports team or other sports organization, they could kick them off them. But is there something that says racists do not have the right to a public education?

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The question is how much is enough?

We as a society tend to err on the side of way too much.

Also, various things in society are "set up" such that a person is given little or no opportunity to demonstrate positive change.  

1) I don’t know

2) agreed completely 

I had this argument with Brisket on the other site as he’s slipped into despondency and despair that there is no such thing as someone beyond redemption, and if you believe that there is then you are committing the sin of putting yourself above God, who has the belief we can all be redeemed and acted accordingly  

 

[mdmost 43034]

13 minutes ago, po elvis said:

Having a hard time grasping how a public school has the right to expel them from school based on something they did out of school that was in their legal rights to do.

I understand if they were on a sports team or other sports organization, they could kick them off them. But is there something that says racists do not have the right to a public education?

Probably signed a code of conduct acknowledgment that says the school has the right to expel you if you violate the terms. 

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

15 minutes ago, po elvis said:

Having a hard time grasping how a public school has the right to expel them from school based on something they did out of school that was in their legal rights to do.

I understand if they were on a sports team or other sports organization, they could kick them off them. But is there something that says racists do not have the right to a public education?

Yeah I don’t get that in a K-12 sense- my bet is that this would not withstand legal challenge. 

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Probably signed a code of conduct acknowledgment that says the school has the right to expel you if you violate the terms. 

Maybe they did- but that’s also a contract of adhesion where the kids can’t not sign it and go to school, and the state tells them they have to go to school. 

 

[Guest Lobo]

33 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Probably signed a code of conduct acknowledgment that says the school has the right to expel you if you violate the terms. 

Coach Conrad, is that you?  

[Ghost of LL 15539]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

 

Plenty of people with hiring power in the south look at this and see no big deal. In the meantime, they deserve no sympathy.

 

Not an employer of any size.

All employers google their job applicants now.  And if you see this, how do you hire that person?  That person would be a walking racial-harassment lawsuit.  What employer would be willing to take on that potential liability?  

[Beau Vine 54384]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Not an employer of any size.

All employers google their job applicants now.  And if you see this, how do you hire that person?  That person would be a walking racial-harassment lawsuit.  What employer would be willing to take on that potential liability?  

Last time I ran a hiring committee, our EEOC office told us we shouldn't google.  I told them to pound sand.

[Prepuce of Doom 21101]

This thread title sucks. 

[Schulz2.0 29007]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Last time I ran a hiring committee, our EEOC office told us we shouldn't google.  I told them to pound sand.

My former employer told my boss he wasn't allowed to Google prospective hires or look up their Facebook account. This was a large, multinational company.

[crash_davis 23114]

1 minute ago, Schulz2.0 said:

My former employer told my boss he wasn't allowed to Google prospective hires or look up their Facebook account. This was a large, multinational company.

HR says shit to uphold appearances for legal reasons. HR does not expect people to follow said guidelines. What hiring manager would NOT Google candidates? You'd be doing you, your team, and your company a disservice if you did not fully vet candidates.

[StassneyHorn 6635]

Well their first mistake was to not check over both their shoulders and then lean in to the camera and say the N word.

17 and 18 year olds know the ramifications, don’t fall for the crocodile tears. If the girl doesn’t accept responsibility now for her actions, her entire life will probably be spent blaming other people for her failures. She needs to learn she was completely in control of this.

Fuck it, they’ll probably just put up a gofundme aimed towards MAGAs talking about how “libruls ruined our lives and took away out freedom of speech. Hell, black people say it all the time in rap songs.”

 

[Schulz2.0 29007]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

HR says shit to uphold appearances for legal reasons. HR does not expect people to follow said guidelines. What hiring manager would NOT Google candidates? You'd be doing you, your team, and your company a disservice if you did not fully vet candidates.

I don't disagree that doing your due diligence is in the best interest of the company. However, the corporate HR lady's reaction seemed like a genuine "I can't believe you did that. You aren't allowed to do that per corporate policy" reaction instead of her just saying it to cover her ass.

[Patrick Bateman 3920]

52 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

This thread title sucks. 

[Prepuce of Doom 21101]

Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

 

[Patrick Bateman 3920]

Just now, Prepuce of Doom said:

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

20 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

And kicked out of high school when they didn't even have to be in a high school. Upping the game.

[workswithseed 2110]

They spent thier n-word pass.

[52-80 19231]

Missed their chance to use the Petto defense

 

 

[crash_davis 23114]

14 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Yeah, I'm curious about the legality. As much as I hate racist dicks, I fully support their right to say their stupid shit under the first. Actually, I like when these fucks out themselves so I know thier true nature.

I'm guessing it's something to do with being under 18 and the regulations of the school board. I'll let the legal eagles here get to the reality as I'm mostly flinging shit at a wall.

Here's AISD's code of conduct.  I imagine most ISD's mirror the same language.

https://www.austinisd.org/sites/default/files/dept/family-support/2019-20-Student-Code-of-Conduct-English-wcag.pdf

Of note.

The district has the authority to handle discipline and give consequences when:
• The interest of the school is involved on or off school grounds in conjunction with or
independent of classes and school-sponsored activities.
• Students violate the code of conduct during the school day while attending or participating in a
school-related or school-sponsored activity, including in any vehicle owned by the district.
• Students post threatening messages on social media towards another student, staff or district
property, regardless of time or location.
• Students engage in specific criminal activity, as determined by law enforcement, regardless of
time or location.
• During the regular school day, the student is within 300 feet of the school’s real property
boundary line and while the student is going to and from school on district transportation.
Determining consequences:
• As required by law, the principal or the assistant principal will serve as the Campus Behavior
Coordinator (CBC). The CBC is primarily responsible for maintaining student discipline.
• Before the CBC recommends a suspension or the student’s removal to an alternative school
setting, they must consider:
o If the student acted in self-defense;
o The student’s intent or lack of intent at the time the student engaged in the conduct;
o The student’s disciplinary history;
o Whether the student has a disability that substantially impairs the student’s capacity to
appreciate the wrongfulness of their conduct, regardless of whether the decision
involves a mandatory or discretionary action.
o A student’s status in the conservatorship of the Department of Family and Protective
Services or a student’s status as a student who is homeless.
• The CBC can offer students the following options to restore order, help students with their
social and emotional development and keep students engaged with their academic progress at
their home campus:
o Parent/teacher conference;
o Conflict resolution;
o Classroom circles (used to establish a respect agreement, build school community,
repair harm and teach decision-making strategies and/or content);
o Behavior coaching;
o Behavior improvement plan;
o Referral to the school’s student support team;
o Referral to social services in the community;
o Transfer student to another classroom;
o Student Support Center (in-school suspension) or out-of-school suspensions.
• The district has the right to remove a student to an alternative school setting for serious or
persistent misconduct or when the student breaks local or state law:
o Students have the right to participate in a due-process conference before they are
removed from their regular school setting.
o Students can be removed to a district alternative education program.
o If a student engages in a serious criminal act, the student can be expelled to the
Juvenile Justice Alternative Education Program (JJAEP).
o Students placed in alternative educational programs are not allowed to attend or
participate in any extracurricular activities.
o Students are not allowed to visit their home campus during the time of removal.
o Students have the right to appeal a removal or expulsion to an alternative education
program.

 

If this happened in AISD, I don't see how the expulsion stands if challenged.

However, I'm sure the parents would not want to keep this in the news by filing a lawsuit, well unless they are David Duke and his wife. That would certainly put the nail on the coffin of their futures. I guess they could always go into politics. Seems to have worked for some politicians.

Edited April 19, 2020 by crash_davis

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

4 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Yeah I can't imagine, especially having seen this sort of thing backfire who knows how many times, thinking it would be a good idea to put this online. What has to go through your brain to get to that conclusion?

Shit. They've got shit for brains.

[TwiceHorn 31530]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Not an employer of any size.

All employers google their job applicants now.  And if you see this, how do you hire that person?  That person would be a walking racial-harassment lawsuit.  What employer would be willing to take on that potential liability?  

Well, at some point after the passage of time, the consumption of a suitable quantity of feces by the offenders, and the establishment of a record of good citizenship, they should be able to leave this behind.  At a company of any size.

 

Even our draconian system of justice puts a time limit on the relevance of most past criminal behavior.

[Genco 3041]

56 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

I don't disagree that doing your due diligence is in the best interest of the company. However, the corporate HR lady's reaction seemed like a genuine "I can't believe you did that. You aren't allowed to do that per corporate policy" reaction instead of her just saying it to cover her ass.

Corporate HR "VP" in a large multinational company has forfeited their ability to think. They are strictly slaves to policy and process. I would have ignored her if I was making the hire and I sure as hell wouldn't let HR make a hiring decision.

[workswithseed 2110]

22 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Yeah, I'm curious about the legality. As much as I hate racist dicks, I fully support their right to say their stupid shit under the first. Actually, I like when these fucks out themselves so I know thier true nature.

I'm guessing it's something to do with being under 18 and the regulations of the school board. I'll let the legal eagles here get to the reality as I'm mostly flinging shit at a wall.

Same, I don't even think a code of conduct would be able to do much of anything, but I could be wrong. 

[Helobious 9464]

4 hours ago, po elvis said:

Having a hard time grasping how a public school has the right to expel them from school based on something they did out of school that was in their legal rights to do.

I understand if they were on a sports team or other sports organization, they could kick them off them. But is there something that says racists do not have the right to a public education?

They're seniors and school is cancelled the rest of the year anyway. They'd be morons to stay in the limelight and try and fight it (but they clearly are morons so they just might). Even if they weren't seniors I wouldn't even want to go back to that school. There'd be a fair amount of people that now have problems with them I imagine. It was just a ceremonial motion by the school. But I don't know what their student code of conduct policy is, maybe there is legitimate grounds to expel them. 

If they actually have gotten death threats, the school could argue their attendance creates student safety issues I suppose. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Helobious

[Schulz2.0 29007]

24 minutes ago, Genco said:

Corporate HR "VP" in a large multinational company has forfeited their ability to think. They are strictly slaves to policy and process. I would have ignored her if I was making the hire and I sure as hell wouldn't let HR make a hiring decision.

No shit, Sherlock.

[Fondren & Main 6733]

I would suggest we move this thread to CR as it fits their belief in cancel culture.  DT seems to have been infected with e-COVID19 at this point.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

21 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

I would suggest we move this thread to CR as it fits their belief in cancel culture.  DT seems to have been infected with e-COVID19 at this point.

What the fuck are you even talking about right now?  "Cancel culture"?  Jesus Christ--you do need your boogeymen, don't you?

I don't think it's particularly new or shocking that there are some adverse consequences to saying overtly racist shit in public.

Seriously--how the fuck is it emblematic of some sort of "cancel culture" to observe that recording yourself making racist statements and preserving it for posterity may have some negative consequences for your future job and social prospects?

[BradInATX 9208]

I would suggest we move this thread to CR as it fits their belief in cancel culture.  DT seems to have been infected with e-COVID19 at this point.

It's your belief that shitting on racist morons is a political or partisan activity? That's an interesting opinion.

[TwiceHorn 31530]

I mean there is a lot of subtlety as to whether their little video was politically incorrect.  Nuance, even.

Edited April 19, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[cmontexas 3276]

41 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

I would suggest we move this thread to CR as it fits their belief in cancel culture.  DT seems to have been infected with e-COVID19 at this point.

Haha what a disingenuous piece of shit. "I dont wanna talk about politics" //throws out buzzwords he learned on his own partisan political hugbox sites

[mdmost 43034]

3 full pages of discussion already and this guy comes along with "let's move this to CR". What a hoot. 

[crash_davis 23114]

i admired the young adults courage and creativity in exercising their first amendment rights. the way they used metaphor and props was quite brilliant. the use of trite, low brow stereotypes to denigrate a group of people was masterful and truthful. their courage to speak their minds knowing that they'll face the eventual unwarranted and needless criticism exemplifies the American spirit. and then to find God is a wonderful redemption story that most Christians will not only understand, but also encourage.

9.5/10 - highly recommended viewing for those who champion God and America.

[aggie08 21525]

I've never negged anyone for anything, but holy shit, you're pushing it, man. If you think that it's a political issue to come to the conclusion that these dumb fucks are stupid pieces of shit (pretty much the reason for surly's existence), then get the fuck out.

[Sgt Hulk 13835]

question, as some colleagues and I had a similar discussion about 4-5 months ago.  We were talking about prison reform, getting those with past criminal actions help schooling and rehab to become contributing productive members of society etc.  Most everyone was in favor of that, to include even though those violent criminals. ALso some mentioned ways to reduce the bias when applying for a job  ( pedos and murder wasnt involved)  However when it came to life long shame the tunes seemed to have changed.  while many where will to rehab a convicted criminal to be a productive member of society, they weren't as open to the idea for incidents such as this one in the tik tok.   why is that?  I gather from the discussions in here that many think the future and life is over for these 2 and it may be easier for them to swallow a gun since essentially life is over for them and society will not want to rehab them.    

curious of what the non-cr level headed educated folks in here think?  Should these 2 be treated on par with the lowest dregs of society such as pedos, murderers ( and CR contributors :D)

Edited April 19, 2020 by Sgt Hulk

[aggie08 21525]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

I gather from the discussions in here that many think the future and life is over for these 2 and it may be easier for them to swallow a gun since essentially life is over for them and society will not want to rehab them.    

curious of what the non-cr level headed educated folks in here think?  Should these 2 be treated on par with the lowest dregs of society such as pedos, murderers ( and CR contributors :D)

Damn. I don't think anyone is saying THAT. 

I haven't even heard any physical violence wished upon them. And they're not going to jail.

Their lives aren't over. College applications may be tricky, and a lot of companies won't even consider them after a basic background check (let's be honest, I don't think CEO of Fortune 500 company was in their future before this). But 90% of working class jobs won't care, or won't look in the first place so long as they don't openly make more racist remarks. As with all viral videos, this will blow over. Hopefully with some lessons learned and true contrition.

[Sgt Hulk 13835]

7 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Wow um, as one of the posters who didn't feel bad for the reprecussion these racists were facing, I know I, and nobody else has stated anything similar to:

These people should be imprisoned for life or multiple years.

In fact, I even posted my defense of their right to say it.

They aren't facing any jail time. They are facing personal reprecussion. 

I don't feel bad for them, but I don't wish a shit life forever on anyone unless their actions truly merit such a reality. Pederast and rapists, fall into that category. Racists shit heads um.. no. 

That's a really huge leap of logic.

Perhaps read again slowly.  No where anywhere did I say they deserved jail time. But court of public opinion has them never going to school and likely unable to get a decent job ever which means likely a permanent drain in society. I compared the statements of discussions where folks where in favor of rehab of inmates but when it comes to saying the n word on social media they felt differently and where in favor of them not being able to be a productive member of society 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Sgt Hulk

[Helobious 9464]

24 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Perhaps read again slowly.  No where anywhere did I say they deserved jail time. But court of public opinion has them never going to school and likely unable to get a decent job ever which means likely a permanent drain in society. I compared the statements of discussions where folks where in favor of rehab of inmates but when it comes to saying the n word on social media they felt differently and where in favor of them not being able to be a productive member of society 

You’re literally just inventing a problem. No one is wishing these people anything more than difficulty getting into school or a job for a while. They can easily manage to do both anyway. Community college, some low-level job for a few years. Hardly a “punishment” in the grand scheme of things. The dude here was essentially in an American semi-pro Lucha Libre league. He was never some Rhodes scholar on his way to a decent job anyway. I know you feel sorry for these two but they played a stupid game and now they’ll get their stupid prize. That’s just life.

[aggie08 21525]

Yeah, how maybe people are going to watch this video? 50 million? (I have no idea, just throwing a big number out there.) In a month, for 49,999,975 of those viewers (including myself), if that girl walked up to them in a grocery store in the exact same outfit and said, "Hello, I'm Steph Freeman. Do you know who I am?" we'd have no fucking idea and be way more concerned that the bitch is going to violate our 6' bubble.

[Hawndoh 2386]

She'll cut/dye her hair, go by her middle name, move to another town, and it'll be forgotten.

He will end up working a labor job at some place with racist bosses who don't care anyway.

[MissingInAction 25172]

White People.