2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[TwiceHorn 31701]

15 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Fun Fact: despite the GOP claim of economic acumen, every GOP President since Herbert Hoover has had a recession start on their watch (except Ford).

Democrats?  Roosevelt (who only had 1 in 4 terms), Truman (who caught 2, although the post war recession was probably the most artificial in modern history, still, the economy contracted), and Carter.

One might argue in response that correlation does not equal causation.

[Bateshorn 9968]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

One might argue in response that correlation does not equal causation.

One would be correct.

Still, it's a fun political fact.

[Biff Tannen 45780]

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One might argue in response that correlation does not equal causation.

One might also argue that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a fucking duck.

[Superhero 8896]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They'd have to unseat incumbent President Kamala Harris.

I'm fine with President Harris. But really curious who her veep would be. Someone who knows how to balance budget would be nice.

[Macanudo 13100]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It's like John Ashcroft, who was so unpopular that he he is the only incumbent Senator every to lose an election to a dead person. 

Let's be fair. Carnahan was actually dead.  Not just dead on the inside like the rest of them.

[Firemans4Horn 18315]

2 years old but every word still rings true. Rest in power Carl. 
 

 

[G650 14303]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That was the first two years of the George HW Bush administration. Republicans never forgave him for governing well, and they never governed that way again. 

It was actually an arc from Reagan through the end of HW. Newt and his merry band of shitheads brought it to a close unfortunately and we have been fucked since.

[Ghost of LL 15605]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

I think it's worth noting just how absolutely unprecedented this is.  You have an incumbent president down double-digits.  You have a challenger polling at or near 50%.  Those two things don't happen, and it's really hard to have a model predict events when you have such unique circumstances.

[Bozo_Casanova 26688]

Don't know where else to put this, but whatever Joe Lieberman is up to, I don't like it at all. 

 

[TexasEd 8155]

On 6/27/2020 at 7:16 AM, Dnaguy said:

I get calls on my cell.

But every time I say I lean democrat or liberal, they’ve met  a quota and end the call.

I was getting polled 1-2 times a month for a while by UT Tyler.

They would ask that question and I would say I'm a fiscal conservative and social moderate/progressive.  That doesn't fit in their box because they don't have that breakout so I would just say lean conservative.   

Then in the candidate questions I could tell them I was voting against trumptards.  I figured going into the Republicans against Trump camp would trigger Donald.

[thrillhammer 684]

2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Fun Fact: despite the GOP claim of economic acumen, every GOP President since Herbert Hoover has had a recession start on their watch (except Ford).

Democrats?  Roosevelt (who only had 1 in 4 terms), Truman (who caught 2, although the post war recession was probably the most artificial in modern history, still, the economy contracted), and Carter.

that's my experience and understanding as well.  we have always done better economically with a democrat president.

[gmr548 16645]

That does not surprise me.  Only thing I’d note is that there’s a difference between fiscal responsibility and economic prosperity.  Not that it is very meaningful in this context, because the GOP has even less credibility as the party of economic prosperity than it does as the party of fiscal responsibility.

The GOP has not had any credibility as the party of fiscal responsibility since before Reagan. Since Reagan the cycle is

 

GOP: Blow big, foundational hole in federal budget with tax cuts and defense spending.

 

Democrats: Clean up the mess (a Republican tried this once and it did not end well).

 

Repeat. There is nothing less fiscally responsible than giving the GOP control of the presidency and federal government. It's a guaranteed deficit explosion. If the GOP has been the party of fiscal responsibility in your lifetime, you're old.

 

[4th&Five 41710]

 

[BigHorn'13 3455]

15 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

His answer on cognitive decline wasn't great. Compile that with the "I can hardly wait" headline CNN was running with and I'm already envisioning the negative ads. 

I'm struggling to see the enthusiasm in Biden. Even his supporters seem more anti trump than pro Biden. I expect that to change the closer we get to November but it's not looking too hot for Democrats in terms of energy. The party seems a little too scattered at the moment but maybe the hatred of trump will be enough to unify. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by BigHorn'13

[Storm the Field 5307]

Sample Size 4,708 Adults/3,577 RV.

Trump Approval 39%. Also, LOL:

 Very few voters – just 9% – say Trump is an average president; 37% say he is a good or great president; and a much larger share (53%) say he is poor or terrible, including 42% who think he is a terrible president.

[Red Five 41095]

2 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

His answer on cognitive decline wasn't great. Compile that with the "I can hardly wait" headline CNN was running with and I'm already envisioning the negative ads. 

I'm struggling to see the enthusiasm in Biden. Even his supporters seem more anti trump than pro Biden. I expect that to change the closer we get to November but it's not looking too hot for Democrats. The party seems a little too scattered at the moment but maybe the hatred of trump will be enough to unify. 

They are currently kicking the shit out of Trump. What are you talking about?

[BigHorn'13 3455]

Just now, Red Five said:

They are currently kicking the shit out of Trump. What are you talking about?

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

7 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Sample Size 4,708 Adults/3,577 RV.

Trump Approval 39%. Also, LOL:

 Very few voters – just 9% – say Trump is an average president; 37% say he is a good or great president; and a much larger share (53%) say he is poor or terrible, including 42% who think he is a terrible president.

that stuff he's citing makes another point: biden shouldn't just be on cruise control to a win and instead go for the blowout because it might be the difference between a R and D senate.  that'll have profound difference in his presidency.

[SubliminalHorn 6845]

Just now, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

who cares? the singular goal is to get the squatter out. that's it. that energizes me and every other democrat.

[Pig Bellmont 8771]

1 minute ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

Well it’s a pity negative campaign ads/messaging don’t have a proven track record of effectiveness. It’ll be a miracle for the Dems to pull this one out

[Pancho 45535]

5 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

Dems are enthusiastic to vote trump out and get someone competent in the office.  That’s enthusiasm enough.  I will give you that people aren’t throwing parties and celebrating at the thought of Biden, but I will explain that people are enthusiastic to get this current shitstain of a president out of the White House, and that’s all the enthusiasm you need for this type of election. 

12 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

His answer on cognitive decline wasn't great. Compile that with the "I can hardly wait" headline CNN was running with and I'm already envisioning the negative ads. 

I'm struggling to see the enthusiasm in Biden. Even his supporters seem more anti trump than pro Biden. I expect that to change the closer we get to November but it's not looking too hot for Democrats in terms of energy. The party seems a little too scattered at the moment but maybe the hatred of trump will be enough to unify. 

I’m not sure what the best answer for that would have been.   He handled it fine.  I was worried/cringing a bit during his monuments answer, but it wasn’t bad. 

What people will take away from this speech is there is someone who is addressing the issues of the country like a damn adult is supposed to. 

This really wasn’t a bad speech by Biden.  I was prepared for worse. 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5418]

3 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

It could also be that people who support Biden (and Dems in generally) aren't part of a cult that worships and supports everything their leader does. 

[Pig Bellmont 8771]

This line of attack against Biden was so incredibly miscalculated. 

[Red Five 41095]

3 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

You said "it's not looking very good for the democrats". Biden is up somewhere between 8 and 14 points. And that was before Trump tweeted white power and the whole Russia bounty deal.

[BigHorn'13 3455]

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy...

[Storm the Field 5307]

7 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

 1 vote for Biden counts the same whether the person voting is doing it to support Biden or b/c they hate Trump. You also don't get bonus points for "enthusiastic" votes vs. "lesser of two evils."

Anecdotal counterpoint. I have spoken with multiple friends and co-workers that are traditional Bush/Romney type GOP guys that waited for hours in line to vote in the Dem Primary for Biden b/c they wanted a palatable non-Trump option to vote for in the general.

[BigHorn'13 3455]

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Dems are enthusiastic to vote trump out and get someone competent in the office.  That’s enthusiasm enough.  I will give you that people aren’t throwing parties and celebrating at the thought of Biden, but I will explain that people are enthusiastic to get this current shitstain of a president out of the White House, and that’s all the enthusiasm you need for this type of election. 

Right, that's pretty much what I said. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This really wasn’t a bad speech by Biden.  I was prepared for worse. 

Agree with this.  The only criticism I have is he acted like all this Russia stuff is new.  You’d never know Trump was impeached listening to Biden.  You’d never know about the brutally cruel family separation policy. You’d never know about him bowing down to Putin in Helsinki on national television.  You’d never know how Trump left the Kurds to get slaughtered by Turkey.  Trump has been a never ending horror show but Biden seems to have a short memory. 

It’s like the first three years never happened.

[Voldemort86 2259]

15 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

Turnout was setting records in some states for the democratic primaries this time.

people would literally crawl over broken glass to get the orange fuck face out of office.

[Storm the Field 5307]

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33962]

12 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy...

Well, then stop doing it

[Red Five 41095]

13 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy...

My mistake. I thought you were being serious. 

[Irwin F Fletcher 3554]

My mistake. I thought you were being serious. 

He's just "asking questions" guy. Everyone loves that guy

[SubliminalHorn 6845]

2 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

4 minutes ago, Red Five said:

My mistake. I thought you were being serious. 

He's just "asking questions" guy. Everyone loves that guy

Especially those that are too principled to vote for either party

[Bateshorn 9968]

Anti incumbent enthusiasm can fucking crush a sitting president during an economic crisis. 

Check out Martin Van Buren. William Henry Harrison had basically a catchy slogan and promised a return to normalcy. 

Just make sure John Tyler isn't your vice.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Brisketexan 105644]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Anti incumbent enthusiasm can fucking crush a sitting president during an economic crisis. 

Check out Martin Van Buren. William Henry Harrison had basically a catchy slogan and promised a return to normalcy. 

Just make sure John Tyler isn't your vice.

Martin Van Buren is always my touchstone.  I have a bias towards dutch surnames, so sue me.

[SimonBolivar 10962]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Anti incumbent sentiment can fucking crush a president. 

Check out Martin Van Buren. Just make sure John Tyler isn't your vice.

I remember writing a paper that hypothesized that MVB wasn't just an Andrew Jackson stooge....he was.

[Bateshorn 9968]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Martin Van Buren is always my touchstone.  I have a bias towards dutch surnames, so sue me.

The Little Magacian was one of the greatest politicians, from a capability standpoint, in American History.  He just tookover the mess of the Jackson presidency. Nobody could have survived that.

[Pancho 45535]

“Y’all’s boy”

[Tuco 5085]

Regarding enthusiasm....
I absolutely care more about removing Trump than I do about elevating Biden. But my level of passion about removing Trump is higher than any enthusiasm I have had for any candidate ever. JFK could have come out of secret cryogenic freeze, with Lincoln as his running mate, and I’d still would care more about removing Trump from office. It’s not a knock on Biden that my main focus is getting rid of Trump. We are in a dangerous situation and that danger needs to end. Biden is the guy to do it. Cool.

[Patrick Bateman 3944]

1 hour ago, BigHorn'13 said:

His answer on cognitive decline wasn't great. Compile that with the "I can hardly wait" headline CNN was running with and I'm already envisioning the negative ads. 

I'm struggling to see the enthusiasm in Biden. Even his supporters seem more anti trump than pro Biden. I expect that to change the closer we get to November but it's not looking too hot for Democrats in terms of energy. The party seems a little too scattered at the moment but maybe the hatred of trump will be enough to unify. 

I agree, Joe, even at his best, isn't Obama or even Bill on the campaign trail, but...... 

When you're running against probably the worst President in modern history, maybe being sleepy is enough.  Trump fatigue is real for independents and the passionate dislike for him on the Dem side is also pretty real and sustained.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[Chuckie Finster 22784]

Joe could die the week before the election and I would still stand in a crowd full of COVID to vote for him.  Anything to get Trump out of there. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[Red Five 41095]

No Biden isn't Obama, but he also isn't Hillary. He is Generic (Geriatric?) Democrat and is polling better and performing better than most thought he would, IMO. 

[Gatorubet 30431]

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Jon Stewart is doing this press blitz for his new movie and does a stump speech for Biden.  The theme is Biden's tragic past has given him humility, so he is on board.  It's a reach.

[Chuckie Finster 22784]

4 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Jon Stewart is doing this press blitz for his new movie and does a stump speech for Biden.  The theme is Biden's tragic past has given him humility, so he is on board.  It's a reach.

If it is anything similar to what he said on Colbert the other night, then this is a really strange way to frame it.  Stewart admits that Biden was not one of this top choices, but his experiences with grief makes him maybe the perfect candidate at this moment for a nation that is in pain.  I thought he communicated it very well.

[gmr548 16645]

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

You know what's stronger in politics?

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

13 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If it is anything similar to what he said on Colbert the other night, then this is a really strange way to frame it.  Stewart admits that Biden was not one of this top choices, but his experiences with grief makes him maybe the perfect candidate at this moment for a nation that is in pain.  I thought he communicated it very well.

yeah, it was the same remarks. he repeated them to whoopi. it seemed very much that he was working backward from needing to say joe is the guy and looking for the reason why.  seemed a little obvious that he was trying to get positive momentum for joe instead of just negative momentum for donald, and I thought it was a little transparent.

[Chuckie Finster 22784]

3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

yeah, it was the same remarks. he repeated them to whoopi. it seemed very much that he was working backward from needing to say joe is the guy and looking for the reason why.  seemed a little obvious that he was trying to get positive momentum for joe instead of just negative momentum for donald, and I thought it was a little transparent.

I haven't seen the conversation with Whoopi, maybe it translated better with Colbert due to their relationship.  Also, I suppose that the viewer's opinion could shape how they are perceived, I've long thought (and posted as much) that Biden's humility would be the key factor in the election, and that was before the country lit itself on fire.

[Patrick Bateman 3944]

It wasn't so much humility although that's part of it.  It's empathy and understanding because he's recovered from substantial loss.  Stewart's theory is Biden may be what the country needs coming off such a destructive and calamitous personality as Trump is someone who can heal the nation or start to mend the divisions of the country.  The country needs a healer.  Is it stilted?  Maybe but he was transparent in saying Biden wasn't his first choice on policy.  Biden's not really a policy or revolutionary driving a movement, that was Bernie or even Warren.  He's a vanilla corporatist Dem who's best attributes are he still gives a shit and seems to know what he doesn't know.