2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Superhero 8776]

Orange County election guide making it easy for me to know who to vote for.

 

[Planet Houston 4923]

58 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's the same bad. America is still fucked both ways, I believe joe biden won't intentionally fuck us for personal gain though. 

There’s a big difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden when it comes to “America is Fucked.” If you think there was a better D candidate (as I certainly do) then perhaps think about where that person will be in a Biden presidency. Most likely in his cabinet, trying to clean up this fucking disaster of a presidency. 

Does that really scream AMERICA IS FUCKED if we elect Biden? Of course not. This is a stupid fucking statement. 

Is the system broken to where Biden is the candidate left standing on the dem side? Sure. But that system ain’t changing under Republican control. Gotta start somewhere. Instead you’re throwing up your hands and saying we are fucked regardless, so why bother. You’re throwing a temper tantrum. Grow up. 

[Gatorubet 30118]

What about someone who sees a 3rd or 4th path? They are now suddenly just braindead fools because they can't figure out which of these 2 which they hate equally gets them to their desired result faster?

Yes. They are braindead fools.

Because sometimes there ARE only two paths - and one goes straight into the molten lava field.

You can take a 3rd or 4th alternate path, but only when they truly exist. This is a two path hike.

[immamac 42524]

1 minute ago, Planet Houston said:

There’s a big difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden when it comes to “America is Fucked.” If you think there was a better D candidate (as I certainly do) then perhaps think about where that person will be in a Biden presidency. Most likely in his cabinet, trying to clean up this fucking disaster of a presidency. 

Does that really scream AMERICA IS FUCKED if we elect Biden? Of course not. This is a stupid fucking statement. 

Is the system broken to where Biden is the candidate left standing on the dem side? Sure. But that system ain’t changing under Republican control. Gotta start somewhere. Instead you’re throwing up your hands and saying we are fucked regardless, so why bother. You’re throwing a temper tantrum. Grow up. 

you are the braindead rube incapable of critical thinking or empathy. It's not a stupid statement to some people who aren't stupid for thinking it.

I'm throwing a tantrum about people just disqualifying the valid opinions of americans who haven't decided who to vote for

[Brisketexan 104632]

Just don't think things are gonna get better. They just aren't going to get worse. Everyone has just come to expect the next day to be more bad shit. Having that not happen is not progress it's stopping a hemmorage.

I view stopping a hemorrhage as progress. 

Progress? It’s absolutely necessary.

There would have been no Japanese surrender in Tokyo Bay without Midway. We didn’t win the war at Midway. Midway was when we stopped losing. First, you have to stop losing.

In a mere 4 years, our nation, our institutions, and our body politic have suffered devastating damage. And he first step MUST BE “stop the bleeding.”

This election is about whether the patient even leaves the trauma ER alive...we can worry about the ultimate course of long-term treatment once we have stabilized the patient.

Oh, and I think Biden actually will have an opportunity to be a more transformative president than even he expects. The process of rebuilding and reconstruction creates opportunity - just like when you’re repairing a damaged house, and you’ve always hated those shitty tile floors, so after you rip out the ruined floors, you install hardwoods. The opportunities will be there, and the people need to stay engaged and continue their pressure for positive change.

[immamac 42524]

2 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Yes. They are braindead fools.

Because sometimes there ARE only two paths - and one goes straight into the molten lava field.

You can take a 3rd or 4th alternate path, but only when they truly exist. This is a two path hike.

I'm sure this will work great in convincing an undecided voter.

 

[Guest Lobo]

19 minutes ago, Superhero said:

Orange County election guide making it easy for me to know who to vote for.

 

That's insane they have the same number of U.S. Congressional districts and California State Assembly Districts.  Those numbers are 40% off, that can't be explained away just by partisan gerrymandering.  

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

25 minutes ago, Superhero said:

Orange County election guide making it easy for me to know who to vote for.

 

72nd assembly is a Nguyen-Nguyen situation 

[Neonmoon 38127]

36 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm saying it's not unfathomable or weird or mind bottling for people to remain undecided for sane reasons.

Yes it’s possible. Moving on 

[Prepuce of Doom 20988]

22 hours ago, SizzleChest said:

FIFY.

 

[Continental Op 3934]

2 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

I love how so many comments in that article can be translated to "I'm OK with the GOP enforcing white hegemony and my preferences as a social conservative as long as they're not so crass!"  I'm glad they've seen the light and are voting accordingly in this election but if the dems think they can rely on these people in the long term are probably mistaken.  

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

When we give dems the executive and the senate, at least for 2 years, there may be some policies enacted that a centrist or never trump republican will hate. That may not be Biden’s platform but is he really going to go against the party on things when they see an opportunity?  
however, that’s a fight to be fought in the future. 
the fight for now is making sure there is a future to fight for.  Smart and/or pragmatic people try to win the fight they are in before they worry about the next one. 

[Bevo14 8274]

49 minutes ago, immamac said:

What about anything that I've indicated in other threads up to this point leads you to believe I don't share that belief with you @jimmyjazz? 

I'm saying it's not unfathomable or weird or mind bottling for people to remain undecided for sane reasons.

So what are these sane reasons?

[Bama Chick 28596]

What if you wanted to burn it down, but now don't really know if that's the right call? Is it better to let it keep burning or is it fine to have your house ruined anyway by boring firefighter, but maybe salvage something out of the smoldering wreckage?
^^^ undecideds can hold this position as well. 

Well anyone who wants to burn it down is a complete and utter moron.

Burning it down will kill some of us.

Those burn it all down freaks gave us Trump.

[Bevo14 8274]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Sure thing bud whatever. Biden sucks. That's my argument. Trump sucks worse. 

If Biden sucks and Trump sucks worse, then it's a clear-cut choice who everybody should be voting for.

 

^Wanting to burn down a country because it's not exactly what you want. I'm sold. That's extremely sane. I've never heard of insane people blowing up things they don't like.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Bevo14

[Gatorubet 30118]

I'm sure this will work great in convincing an undecided voter.
 

Odd. I have not been addressing the issue of undecided voters today, but you keep responding to me why what I’m saying won’t move undecided voters.

So, I agree with you 100%.

Since the collapse of journalism as we knew it (can you imagine the scene in All The President’s Men where Ben Bradlee won’t let Woodward and Bernstein run a story without enough independent sources happening at the New York Post today? We are a blog as news source world), it is up to readers to act as Editors. IOW, we are fucked. Call it elitist, but you need a certain set of tools to do that yourself for most people.

As an aside, this is a great read:

[Gatorubet 30118]

I love how so many comments in that article can be translated to "I'm OK with the GOP enforcing white hegemony and my preferences as a social conservative as long as they're not so crass!"  I'm glad they've seen the light and are voting accordingly in this election but if the dems think they can rely on these people in the long term are probably mistaken.  

In the long term white hegemony will be contained by the altered racial voting demographics - and by the younger voters increasing their voter participation percentages as they get older, as always happens.

[tantric superman 4667]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

He said that in 2008, right?  About John McCain- former and future GOP idol of the left, correct?  Yet when he was running for president he was the worst ever, blah blah blah in the most important election ever, blah blah blah. 
Since we hear that every 4 years and some people have a memory longer than the lifespan of a mayfly it’s why the disconnect exists for large swaths of America. 
commence the negging now. 

Yeah, but someone used the word "cunt" to refer to someone in England about 800 years ago.

That doesn't mean it doesn't apply more aptly to you, today.

[tantric superman 4667]

Origin of cunt

1275–1325; Middle English cunte; cognate with Old Norse kunta,Old Frisian, Middle Low German, Middle Dutch kunte

 

[atomheartbevo 89452]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I view stopping a hemorrhage as progress. 

I wish you were Chris Del Conte.

[Wulaw Horn 18983]

19 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Yeah, but someone used the word "cunt" to refer to someone in England about 800 years ago.

That doesn't mean it doesn't apply more aptly to you, today.

When everyone is a cunt then nobody is a cunt. 

[gmr548 16518]

I wish you were Chris Del Conte.

Beat me to the punch. Have a rep.

[atomheartbevo 89452]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would never recommend getting into a big political discussion with most people as they cannot emotionally handle political discussions. And definitely don’t try to convince someone that doesn’t want to be convinced. It goes no where.

3 hours ago, Eastwood said:

The only Trump voters left in my family are the evangelicals and they are single issue voters.

2 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

My mom is a hardcore catholic and is a single issue voter on abortion. She does the picket line protests at abortion clinics, she’s that level of serious about abortion. She’s still pulling the lever for Biden this election. That’s how toxic Trump is.

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

 I do know some Catholics that are voting for Biden, but most others are single issue and abortion is all they think about.

Over the past 2-3 weeks, I've been watching my wife's Sunday school class blow up because of the election, and specifically abortion being a driving issue.  They already had a couple of members who refused to do Zoom meetings when all of the covid stuff started happening back in March, even after a Deacon patiently explained why to them.  So they were getting together at each others' houses and having their own Sunday school, but they've been chiming in on the email chains, and occasionally jumping into a Zoom session.  I actually said they should have been cut loose back in March and form their own little class, since they were so opposed to everything that the rest of the class was doing, but the powers that be don't like doing that stuff.

So a few weeks ago the "splitters",  and a couple of members who still attend the Zoom classes regularly, lobbed a little hand grenade into the email chain about "if you're a Christian and care about abortion, you must support Trump!" which pissed off a lot of people in the class.  One of the teachers/leaders said "look, don't bring politics into this, because *insert Scripture here*",  and somebody else said that if a Republican is bringing abortion into the mix, it means they are losing.  A third person chimed in that they can't talk about the sin of abortion unless they are willing to talk about Trump's various sins such as adulteries/speaking falsely, etc. etc., and that sin is sin, which really got some going.

I misread the pro-Trump side of the room and tried to lighten things up with them and said "if you're concerned about abortion, Trump is probably your guy, because you know that out of the two of them, Trump's the one who has probably paid for an abortion" which went over like a lead zeppelin.  

So yeah, that first little group and their friends are probably splitting off, since the rest of the class made it clear how they felt.

This did not happen in 2016, it did not happen under Obama, and I've known some of these people for over 10 years.

After the shitshow I've witnessed the past two Sundays and in the various emails, and even with some family members, yeah, Cult 45 is definitely a thing.

[Continental Op 3934]

I love how the argument has gone from "BIDEN SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS" to "Why are you guys such meanies to undecided voters!?" in the space of an hour. Somebody just wants to argue and doesn't really give a fuck about what. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Continental Op

[Chooky 13302]

1 hour ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

 

Eat a dick, bird. 

[Brisketexan 104632]

After the shitshow I've witnessed the past two Sundays and in the various emails, and even with some family members, yeah, Cult 45 is definitely a thing.

Yep, it’s a cult. And also, abortion is an excuse.

Fuck em. Fuck a WHOLE lot of people. They’ve chosen this. History will not judge them kindly, and neither will I.

[Sawbonz 27439]

5 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

Somebody just wants to argue and doesn't really give a fuck about what. 

Well that’s a bunch of bullshit

[GW Hayduke 1952]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Biden is not a good candidate.

The dude is up by 10 points nationally. Define “good.”

2 hours ago, immamac said:

His policies are meh at best.

Like what? 

2 hours ago, immamac said:

He would never get anything done without full house and senate support because his policy is so wildly unclear and broad.

I’m afraid you may have missed out on the last two decades of US politics. Are you aware of Mitch McConnell, and do you understand the role he plays in US politics? I feel like someone should make an easy to digest video about how a bill becomes law.

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Wait, you guys think Biden is the best person in America eligible for office of the President?

He is clearly the best for the US right now. Name a single person better.

[Biff Tannen 45500]

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Those burn it all down freaks gave us Trump.

Anastasis not gonna be happy with this one.

[immamac 42524]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

The dude is up by 10 points nationally. Define “good.”

Like what? 

I’m afraid you may have missed out on the last two decades of US politics. Are you aware of Mitch McConnell, and do you understand the role he plays in US politics? I feel like someone should make an easy to digest video about how a bill becomes law.

He is clearly the best for the US right now. Name a single person better.

Just read the rest of the thread and you will understand. Dangerous part of devil's advocate is if people take the bait too hard the whole message is lost. Undecideds are not crazy. 

Biden is a good candidate and was the best one for this election and he's gonna mop the fucking floor with Trump. Turnout is going to be crazy high and people want to bring decency and order back to the country not just in the executive but in the senate. I voted for that on day 1 of EV in texas, I decided forever ago. 

Calm the fuck down and put your pitchforks away holy shit. 

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Well that’s a bunch of bullshit

No it isn’t 

[Hank Kingsley 20711]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Dangerous part of devil's advocate is if people take the bait too hard the whole message is lost.

The dangerous party of playing devil's advocate is saying really stupid shit and then pivoting to "I was just playing devil's advocate" when called out on it. 

 

[immamac 42524]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The dangerous party of playing devil's advocate is saying really stupid shit and then pivoting to "I was just playing devil's advocate" when called out on it. 

 

Oh sure thing bud. The guy who started the vote thread and plastered the board with voter information and has been all about voter turnout meaning biden win in all kinds of threads suddenly changes to say things that real people who think critically think and have told me about their feelings for Biden. 

Get a fucking clue. 

[Hank Kingsley 20711]

Just now, immamac said:

Oh sure thing bud. The guy who started the vote thread and plastered the board with voter information and has been all about voter turnout meaning biden win in all kinds of threads suddenly changes to say things that real people who think critically think and have told me about their feelings for Biden. 

Get a fucking clue. 

The guy who called people on here keyboard warriors and pled for us to DO SOMETHING, then later admitted he didn't vote in 2016. 

Your messaging sucks. 

 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

Just read the rest of the thread and you will understand. Dangerous part of devil's advocate is if people take the bait too hard the whole message is lost. Undecideds are not crazy. 

Biden is a good candidate and was the best one for this election and he's gonna mop the fucking floor with Trump. Turnout is going to be crazy high and people want to bring decency and order back to the country not just in the executive but in the senate. I voted for that on day 1 of EV in texas, I decided forever ago. 

Calm the fuck down and put your pitchforks away holy shit. 

Folks aren’t too concerned about undecideds. There aren’t many.

The game is about motivating turnout for your side and suppressing turnout for the other. If you are on team Biden this election, then consider not sharing the opinion that he sucks or is a bad candidate - when the opposite is true

[immamac 42524]

Or maybe you can fucking use your brain and stop thinking anyone in this fucking thread is convincing anyone of shit from a way they are going to vote perspective. 

You stupid fucks think people are going to read my post and all of the sudden vote for Trump? You must be a lot dumber than I gave you credit for. 

[Beau Vine 54006]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The dangerous party of playing devil's advocate is saying really stupid shit and then pivoting to "I was just playing devil's advocate" when called out on it. 

 

[Dahobbs 17449]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

Oh sure thing bud. The guy who started the vote thread and plastered the board with voter information and has been all about voter turnout meaning biden win in all kinds of threads suddenly changes to say things that real people who think critically think and have told me about their feelings for Biden. 

Get a fucking clue. 

I get what you were saying. I disagree with it, but I get it. That said, it wasn't clear at all that you were being a devil's advocate. There is literally nothing in your initial post to suggest that. You need to be upfront about it if that is what you are doing. 

[pyrohornIII 4809]

4 hours ago, Bookman said:

I appreciate all these stories about Trump voters switching, but there’s nothing we learned in the last four years that we didn’t already know in 2016.

A lot of them needed to see him in action to understand how stupid, crooked and vile he was.   A lot of them didn't educate themselves much on either candidate before the election.  Now they have had to reap the consequences of that.

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I agree with this. Democrats have been their own enemy by constantly calling every GOP candidate "the worst ever." You cry wolf too often and people stop listening to you. That is partly what happened with Trump. As a former more GOP aligned independent, the constant maligning of every GOP candidate as either stupid or evil, even if objectively the candidate was centrist or of above average intelligence, definitely contributed to my distaste for the Democratic party. 

Don't get me wrong, the GOP has done the same thing, taking it to 11 with Obama (and since). 

The GOP is considerably different since Gingrich's days of power.  It is not remotely the party it was when Reagan began.   

3 hours ago, immamac said:

 

Wait, you guys think Biden is the best person in America eligible for office of the President? They could have run literally anyone. Biden is not a good candidate. His policies are meh at best. He would never get anything done without full house and senate support because his policy is so wildly unclear and broad. It's also nothing new. 

Pandemic? So Joe Biden actually wants to be President during the pandemic instead of pretending it doesn't exist and you want me to say he has the best fucking plan for it? He can barely fucking articulate what he wants to happen if he takes over and just says shit like "we will let the scientists guide us". Come up with real policy change that will allow for contact tracing, aggressively attack the virus and eliminate it then have a sustaining plan afterwards. Just because he wants to do something and that's better than nothing doesn't mean it's a God tier plan of attack. 

Foreign policy under Biden is going to be an apology world tour and regaining trust instead of a strong stance on some of the things and a chance to reboot our status quo with the world. Joe Biden is the candidate of "the same shit before Trump" which need flash, wasn't all that fucking great for a lot of people. 

Economy? Oh so now instead of massive deregulation and allowance to do whatever you want he's going to fucking put back restrictions and then raise the Corp tax rate to what it was during Bush? Like what the fuck you think that's going to change anything? How about trust busting, a commitment to change America from a conglomerate focused innovation stifling culture back into the small and medium sized business machine.

What about Healthcare? Seems pretty happy with ACA. Which is obviously fucked and a piece of garbage that had some good parts. Doesn't want MCA doesn't believe in forcing out corporate interests from public health. 

What about Police? Shoot people in the leg instead of kill them? Ban chokeholds? Decriminalize MJ? Like come the fuck on its 2020 the federal gov can't mandate local police to do things. How about a complete reform of federal prosecutors and ending the entire war on drugs eliminating the DEA and ICE. 

He's not at all progressive, he's regressive as fuck and his policy stances are uninteresting and "safe" to the point they are dangerous.

He's a good dude. He means well. Substantially less Americans will die in the next 18-24 months and stability will come much sooner under his watch than Trump, but God damnit it's just going to be the same syndicated bullshit. He's a 76 year old lifetime politician with stale ideas and entrenched process. Obama was a great fucking guy, super motivating, but his presidency was super fucking meh in MANY people's opinions. Until someone is in office that is the antithesis of trump who will reject the notion that America is run by those who now possess over 10T in wealth it's going to be more of the same for the sheeple of the USA

IMO opinion, he's not the best candidate, but out of the lot, he was the most electable.  He is the bridge for us from the dying flailing days of the Reagan-esque  trickle down, income/wealth disparity movement into what will be a more progressive era for our country.  He's enough old school mixed with the willingness to listen to new ideas to win this and get our government working again.   WIll he be another FDR?  Doubtful, but he's definitely FDR to Trump's Hoover.  

Following is a link to a good read on cycles in politics and transformations each cycle brings.   Goes a long way to explaining why we had Trump, why we are having a hard time voting him out, and why Biden is a good choice to run against him.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/interview-stephen-skowronek/

Edited October 18, 2020 by pyrohornIII
era error

[Homercles 10205]

59 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Origin of cunt

1275–1325; Middle English cunte; cognate with Old Norse kunta,Old Frisian, Middle Low German, Middle Dutch kunte

 

 

55 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I wish you were Chris Del Conte.

Chris Del Cunte?

[BradInATX 9208]

Wait are we talking best candidate or best actual person to be president? 

He's clearly the best candidate.

He's very probably not the best person for the job (though he will do just fine). Like 2 people on this entire site voted for him in the primary, so that really shouldn't be a controversial opinion. 

[SydneyCarton 47888]

59 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I wish you were Chris Del Conte.

So do I. 

[immamac 42524]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I get what you were saying. I disagree with it, but I get it. That said, it wasn't clear at all that you were being a devil's advocate. There is literally nothing in your initial post to suggest that. You need to be upfront about it if that is what you are doing. 

It's almost like I'm a new poster and there's no context that people could draw from! 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4670]

11 minutes ago, immamac said:

Oh sure thing bud. The guy who started the vote thread and plastered the board with voter information and has been all about voter turnout meaning biden win in all kinds of threads suddenly changes to say things that real people who think critically think and have told me about their feelings for Biden. 

Get a fucking clue. 

This entire thing started with the below exchange. That isn’t just playing devil’s fucking advocate. 
 

4 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Had a conversation with someone who actually said both candidates are so equally bad they struggled to figure out who to vote for. That was mind bottling to me.

 

3 hours ago, immamac said:

It's true though so what's mind bottling. Biden is really fucking bad. He's just a decent person. 

 

[immamac 42524]

Just now, Reynolds Woodcock said:

This entire thing started with the below exchange. That isn’t just playing devil’s fucking advocate. 
 

 

 

Do what exactly did I do for a bunch of posts? Showed how it could possibly be true in someone's mind? Almost like...devil's advocate? 

a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments.

No fucking way...

[immamac 42524]

The whole thing was me raging about calling undecided voters out as "mind bottling" 

[Dahobbs 17449]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's almost like I'm a new poster and there's no context that people could draw from! 

I think people knew you favored Biden. But, it seemed from your post that you favored Biden for only one reason (decent human) and that you actually believed he was just as bad as Trump from a pure policy perspective.  It is that latter contention that people were responding to. It is objectively false (you know, since Trump's only policy is to help himself). 

I'm just saying your intent wasn't clear, which is why you got the response you did. It's been cleared up now. No worries. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Mole 4320]

38 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

I love how the argument has gone from "BIDEN SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS" to "Why are you guys such meanies to undecided voters!?" in the space of an hour. Somebody just wants to argue and doesn't really give a fuck about what. 

An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

There is a lot I’d like to say about Biden in this election but I hold back because it serves no helpful purpose in getting mango Mussolini out. 

[Wax Beer Cup 382]

Where's Mrs Whiggins?  Haven't seen her post in about a week.  I usually like her take on things.