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2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]


Patrick Bateman

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And I hope I'm wrong, but my gut says there's going to be some serious fallout between various groups, friends, and family come November, and I'm starting to think that a lot of it won't be repairable, after what I saw this morning, and in emails over the past few weeks.

The hatred I saw developing within my wife's Sunday school class was.....a little disconcerting.  And people in the class commented that they've never seen anything like this, so I wasn't the only one who didn't see this with this group, with Obama, and in 2016.  These are people who have hung out on the weekends together, went to movies, athletic events, fished together, etc.  And one of the teachers spent almost 10 minutes talking about how our leaders should not be driving us to hate each other, which upset some of the Trump faction. 

I'm not ready for Brisket's ledge, because I have a more grounded view of how the election is going to play out, but damn

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Yeah I'm curious if Trump not just loses but gets trounced and with how entrenched his followers are, how will most of them even function in a society that repudiated all that they stood for? I would imagine it won't be a moment of reflection though and they'll continue down the dark path they've chosen to detach from reality. Like the Trump flag guy I see when I drive towards my house. What does that guy do after Trump is gone? Does he just sit and stew while coming up with conspiracy theories about how the election was stolen from Trump? Or say Trump is routed, does he blame it on Democrats cheating or low information voters? The Trump supporter truly seems cult like. 

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7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yeah I'm curious if Trump not just loses but gets trounced and with how entrenched his followers are, how will most of them even function in a society that repudiated all that they stood for? I would imagine it won't be a moment of reflection though and they'll continue down the dark path they've chosen to detach from reality. Like the Trump flag guy I see when I drive towards my house. What does that guy do after Trump is gone? Does he just sit and stew while coming up with conspiracy theories about how the election was stolen from Trump? Or say Trump is routed, does he blame it on Democrats cheating or low information voters? The Trump supporter truly seems cult like. 

He blames it on democrats lying and cheating, and calls for the saintly Republican Party to “finally” play dirty to match. 

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2 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

Trump, GOP, and Fox trying to make Hunter’s laptop the new Hillary’s emails. They’re going all in. 

 

Who the hell is Ron Johnson?  Who the hell is this guy to be saying anything about child pornography?  How old was Stacy Hamilton when you took her to that dugout, Ron?

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7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yeah I'm curious if Trump not just loses but gets trounced and with how entrenched his followers are, how will most of them even function in a society that repudiated all that they stood for? I would imagine it won't be a moment of reflection though and they'll continue down the dark path they've chosen to detach from reality. Like the Trump flag guy I see when I drive towards my house. What does that guy do after Trump is gone? Does he just sit and stew while coming up with conspiracy theories about how the election was stolen from Trump? Or say Trump is routed, does he blame it on Democrats cheating or low information voters? The Trump supporter truly seems cult like. 

I think they will in general shut up and go towards supporting the next odious Republican in line, Ted Cruz.

I think demographics kill off the older Trump supporters and as to the asshole younger ones, they are a bunch of pussies who will simply be outgunned and out pressured by similarly aged voters. 

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47 minutes ago, immamac said:

Undecideds are not crazy.

With 16 days until an election for the leader of the Nation, Undecideds might not be crazy, but they are super fucking lazy and undeserving of the enfranchisement they enjoy.

 

36 minutes ago, immamac said:

Or maybe you can fucking use your brain and stop thinking anyone in this fucking thread is convincing anyone of shit from a way they are going to vote perspective. 

You stupid fucks think people are going to read my post and all of the sudden vote for Trump? You must be a lot dumber than I gave you credit for. 

Now this is the way you engage the opposition in an argument.  /s

 

26 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm just saying your intent wasn't clear, which is why you got the response you did. It's been cleared up now. No worries. 

Bingo. 

Now can we get back to bashing the real idoits and morans and stop the circular firing squad?

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33 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I think they will in general shut up and go towards supporting the next odious Republican in line, Ted Cruz.

I think demographics kill off the older Trump supporters and as to the asshole younger ones, they are a bunch of pussies who will simply be outgunned and out pressured by similarly aged voters. 

I don't think they'll go away completely. The older Trump voters who were reliable R voters previously, yeah, they'll move on to the next race or whatever. But the Trump movement has empowered poor white trash and for the first time in their lives they've been given the feeling of actually holding power over the libtards in cities and the intellectuals. They're not going to let that go. Not sure if it'll manifest in a continued Trump brand as he becomes a media guy on OANN or whatever, or if it will manifest itself in some other way. But it's going to stick around for awhile.

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30 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And I hope I'm wrong, but my gut says there's going to be some serious fallout between various groups, friends, and family come November, and I'm starting to think that a lot of it won't be repairable, after what I saw this morning, and in emails over the past few weeks.

The hatred I saw developing within my wife's Sunday school class was.....a little disconcerting.  And people in the class commented that they've never seen anything like this, so I wasn't the only one who didn't see this with this group, with Obama, and in 2016.  These are people who have hung out on the weekends together, went to movies, athletic events, fished together, etc.  And one of the teachers spent almost 10 minutes talking about how our leaders should not be driving us to hate each other, which upset some of the Trump faction. 

I'm not ready for Brisket's ledge, because I have a more grounded view of how the election is going to play out, but damn

This (and your earlier post) makes me sad. And disgusted.

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10 minutes ago, Bojack said:

Who the hell is Ron Johnson?  Who the hell is this guy to be saying anything about child pornography?  How old was Stacy Hamilton when you took her to that dugout, Ron?

Senator from Wisconsin.  He's neck deep in the Russia/Ukrainian shit, and looking for any justification.  13? 14?  She was a freshman. Yeah, it's kind of fucked up. 

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

And one of the teachers spent almost 10 minutes talking about how our leaders should not be driving us to hate each other, which upset some of the Trump faction. 

This.  Understand, you don't even have to criticize Trump.  You can simply state a politician-neutral statement of what SHOULD be non-controversial values: "A country's leaders should bring its people together, not drive them to hate each other".....and Trumpkins immediately bristle and get defensive.  Imagine saying "it's wrong to shit in another person's face," and someone getting all defensive -- Jesus, what that tells us about you is horrible.

They have chosen to be horrible, awful, irredeemable people.  So be it.  They can all go to hell.

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13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  Understand, you don't even have to criticize Trump.  You can simply state a politician-neutral statement of what SHOULD be non-controversial values: "A country's leaders should bring its people together, not drive them to hate each other".....and Trumpkins immediately bristle and get defensive.  Imagine saying "it's wrong to shit in another person's face," and someone getting all defensive -- Jesus, what that tells us about you is horrible.

They have chosen to be horrible, awful, irredeemable people.  So be it.  They can all go to hell.

I’m still gonna have to sit around a holiday table with some of these people.  I don’t hate them.  I just have to try really hard to find the meaning of “grace”, and remind myself I’m no better.

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10 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I’m still gonna have to sit around a holiday table with some of these people.  I don’t hate them.  I just have to try really hard to find the meaning of “grace”, and remind myself I’m no better.

No, I'm better than racist shitbags.  There's a WHOLE LOT I'm not better than -- I'm selfish, vain, foolish, sometimes cruel, a whole stewpot of human flaws.  But I'm not a racist shitbag.  Enough with the "we shouldn't make value judgments."  Like fuck we shouldn't.  Failing to exercise such discernment got us in this fucking mess.

Does it mean that I have cut off awful people in my life?  You bet.  I'm good with that.  Racist shitbags should be treated as pariahs.

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, I'm better than racist shitbags.  There's a WHOLE LOT I'm not better than -- I'm selfish, vain, foolish, sometimes cruel, a whole stewpot of human flaws.  But I'm not a racist shitbag.  Enough with the "we shouldn't make value judgments."  Like fuck we shouldn't.  Failing to exercise such discernment got us in this fucking mess.

Does it mean that I have cut off awful people in my life?  You bet.  I'm good with that.  Racist shitbags should be treated as pariahs.

Oh I get that, I’m thinking more of wayward sheep than flat out evil people.

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1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Oh I get that, I’m thinking more of wayward sheep than flat out evil people.

It's so hard to tell the fucking difference these days, man.  I just can't conceive of knowing 5% of what we know about Trump and continuing to support him.  It's just a choice to support cruelty and evil.  And yes, this has closed the deal on some family members with whom we no longer speak unless absolutely necessary. It's heartbreaking.  And illusion-shattering.

I spent my entire life wondering how the German people could go along with such shitbaggery.  Then I visited Germany, and we've become good friends with several German families....so I STILL couldn't understand how it could happen.

Then, I watched it happen, right here at home.  And realizing that it is SO fucking easy....well, that was fucking eye-opening.

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13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  Understand, you don't even have to criticize Trump.  You can simply state a politician-neutral statement of what SHOULD be non-controversial values: "A country's leaders should bring its people together, not drive them to hate each other".....and Trumpkins immediately bristle and get defensive.  Imagine saying "it's wrong to shit in another person's face," and someone getting all defensive -- Jesus, what that tells us about you is horrible.

They have chosen to be horrible, awful, irredeemable people.  So be it.  They can all go to hell.

The wife and I were talking about this the other night. She's brand new to politics and didn't start paying attention until COVID when she realized that the government actually can play a huge role in the day to day lives of its citizens. She asked if Trump supporters were typical of Republican support for past presidents. I think the honest answer, being a former Republican myself, is no. And it has only escalated as the presidency moved on to the point where just talking about common decency is enough to get some dander up because I think a significant chunk of Trump supporters know, deep down, that they're being assholes to family and friends. They do so out of a sunk-cost fallacy. "I've been backing this position for 3 years. If I turn back now, I'll look like an idiot." So, they'd rather be an asshole than look like an idiot.

Then others take the all-in approach as a subconscious self-defense mechanism. If they are forced to question their judgment regarding Trump, maybe their judgment in other areas of friction in their lives was bad, too. They would have to accept that they lost friends and loved and they have no one to blame but themselves. Rather than do that, they cling to the belief that they're not wrong, everyone else that they pushed away was wrong. The majority of Trump supporters fit those two molds, in my opinion. They're all-in because they've burned all their bridges and there's no turning back or they're acting on a subconscious level of self-preservation.

Then you have people like my grandparents. Small town folk from a small town congregation that has been slamming the podium twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday for 30 years about how this country is trying to make Christianity illegal, outlaw prayer, burn your bibles, and kill babies in the delivery room. In their eyes, Trump is a clown, but they hold their nose and pull the lever for him because voting for a Democrat in their eyes means voting for the end of Christianity.

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2 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

The wife and I were talking about this the other night. She's brand new to politics and didn't start paying attention until COVID when she realized that the government actually can play a huge role in the day to day lives of its citizens. She asked if Trump supporters were typical of Republican support for past presidents. I think the honest answer, being a former Republican myself, is no. And it has only escalated as the presidency moved on to the point where just talking about common decency is enough to get some dander up because I think a significant chunk of Trump supporters know, deep down, that they're being assholes to family and friends. They do so out of a sunk-cost fallacy. "I've been backing this position for 3 years. If I turn back now, I'll look like an idiot." So, they'd rather be an asshole than look like an idiot.

Then others take the all-in approach as a subconscious self-defense mechanism. If they are forced to question their judgment regarding Trump, maybe their judgment in other areas of friction in their lives was bad, too. They would have to accept that they lost friends and loved and they have no one to blame but themselves. Rather than do that, they cling to the belief that they're not wrong, everyone else that they pushed away was wrong. The majority of Trump supporters fit those two molds, in my opinion. They're all-in because they've burned all their bridges and there's no turning back or they're acting on a subconscious level of self-preservation.

Then you have people like my grandparents. Small town folk from a small town congregation that has been slamming the podium twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday for 30 years about how this country is trying to make Christianity illegal, outlaw prayer, burn your bibles, and kill babies in the delivery room. In their eyes, Trump is a clown, but they hold their nose and pull the lever for him because voting for a Democrat in their eyes means voting for the end of Christianity.

Good thing fewer and fewer people are going to church and identifying themselves as religious every year. 

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55 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm not advocating for Trump or against Biden. I'm saying it's not a fucking cut and dry to people as what was stated. They both suck and scare the shit out of people. Biden seems like a better choice from a decency perspective, but some people aren't as plugged in and don't know if that's enough for them. 

Oh great we’ve found 2021-2024 Mr. Both Sides. 

Fucking spare me. 

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Oh, it’ll go lower. There is no bottom. 

Yeah.....why people even ponder the concept of a bottom is a mystery to me.

I mean, we all accept that there is a non-zero chance, and a material one, that the POTUS has the DOJ or some other friendly agency arrest Biden before election day, right?  That's a real thing, and it actually might happen.  There is no bottom.  There are no limits.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  Understand, you don't even have to criticize Trump.  You can simply state a politician-neutral statement of what SHOULD be non-controversial values: "A country's leaders should bring its people together, not drive them to hate each other".....and Trumpkins immediately bristle and get defensive.  Imagine saying "it's wrong to shit in another person's face," and someone getting all defensive -- Jesus, what that tells us about you is horrible.

They have chosen to be horrible, awful, irredeemable people.  So be it.  They can all go to hell.

the biggest issue right now is that trump has politicized fucking everything.  public health?  check.  public safety?  check.  voting?  fucking check.

if you said to a group of people "i wish it was easier for everyone in this country to be able to vote" you would straight up offend and start a fight with any trumpers listening.

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9 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

The GOP is considerably different since Gingrich's days of power.  It is not remotely the party it was when Reagan began.   

The GOP of today is the child of its traditional northeastern rich-people-shouldn't-pay-taxes crowd (which it has been since the income tax came back into being in 1913) + religious/racists who joined up in response to the civil rights era + the extraction industry which has been dumbing people down since the Colorado Coalfield War.  All those factors were in place when Reagan was President.  Hell, Reagan was the one who really brought the religious/racists on board.  They doubled down on dumbing people down with the cancellation of the equal time rule. That lead to El Rushbo and Fox News beaming stupidity and genuflection to the capital class straight into your brain in a way that Ivy Lee would never have dreamt of in even his wildest wet dreams.  The only thing Trump has added is unintentional incompetence (intentional incompetence/malfeasance has been there since Reagan, see Neil Gorsuch's mom), and malignant narcissism.*  It is very much the party Reagan made it in the late 70s through the 80s.

 

 

 

 

*And it's not like Nixon didn't dabble in malfeasance in governmental affairs, and he was the previous king of electoral malfeasance.  Malignant narcissist as well.  Though he didn't make that into a party plank like Trump has.

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39 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

qanon is against pedophilia.  trump is against pedophilia.  why are so many of you libs pro-pedophilia??

republicans are determined to make one-sided issues somehow controversial.  next we'll hear that dems are pro school shootings.  jesus h with this shit.

it's like in parks and rec when they're talking about that "end of the world" cult that believes aliens will come down and take them away in their spaceships.  they call themselves "the reasonablists" so that anyone talking about them will think that they're quite reasonable.  to which adam scott says, "that's actually kinda brilliant."

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51 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And to go down that theological road.....if what's necessary for "Christianity" to be preserved is installing leadership like Trump.....then it's time for "Christianity" to wrap it up and call it a day.

Of course, the great news there is what needs to be wrapped up and tossed in the garbage is "Christianity" in quotes.  The Gospel, and living life according to The Way that is embedded within the New Testament, doesn't have to be tossed at all.  Good News indeed.

I have no issue with people voting their faith, in the abstract. 
but when paired with the idea that so many of the various religious faiths are to be accepted without question or challenge. It’s especially stupid when you know that Catholics came from Jews saying “this isn’t right anymore, now it’s this” and Protestants are from “Catholics aren’t correct anymore, this is how it is.”  But once these things are set for a generation or two, they become dogmatic and beyond question because “faith” and somehow questioning your religious beliefs is blasphemous. 
So in many cases, you have thousands or at least hundreds of years old societal rules informing current voting habits. 

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3 hours ago, immamac said:

Just read the rest of the thread and you will understand. Dangerous part of devil's advocate is if people take the bait too hard the whole message is lost. Undecideds are not crazy. 

Biden is a good candidate and was the best one for this election and he's gonna mop the fucking floor with Trump. Turnout is going to be crazy high and people want to bring decency and order back to the country not just in the executive but in the senate. I voted for that on day 1 of EV in texas, I decided forever ago. 

Calm the fuck down and put your pitchforks away holy shit. 

You’ve been listening to Joe Rogan recently, haven’t you?

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@immamac Honestly no idea but back in March and April he was screaming about how Biden is too old and all that shit while pumping trump. Never mind he publicly endorsed Bernie. He seriously needs to stop talking politics.  Last one I listened to was with him and Bill Burr. That was gold. There was YouTube clip about him talking about Texans being pissed off about people like him moving here. The title pissed me off so much I couldn’t bear to watch. 

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57 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's so hard to tell the fucking difference these days, man.  I just can't conceive of knowing 5% of what we know about Trump and continuing to support him.  It's just a choice to support cruelty and evil.  And yes, this has closed the deal on some family members with whom we no longer speak unless absolutely necessary. It's heartbreaking.  And illusion-shattering.

I spent my entire life wondering how the German people could go along with such shitbaggery.  Then I visited Germany, and we've become good friends with several German families....so I STILL couldn't understand how it could happen.

Then, I watched it happen, right here at home.  And realizing that it is SO fucking easy....well, that was fucking eye-opening.

I am maybe saying the obvious, but in relation to the nazi thing here...I have lived that with mein Oma. she was a kid at the beginning of the 30s and ended up being an engineer at Messerschmitt. We talked on it here and there when I was a kid but never got more than an inch deep. I don't think she wanted to (for obvious reasons). The Germans in the 80s (when I was a kid visiting family there) were the most timid motherfuckers I ever encountered. They had some serious luggage to carry around.

The US has its own luggage. Internet is giving us a new view of the world and its destroying the purpose that many had. and not just here but in every society on Earf.

I remember moving from UT to the real world at the beginning of the 2000s. The internet was like a drug in my veins. New music, travel, the ability communicate. Naively, none of us (or at least none of me or my friends) understood the full dilemma on what was about to happen. I tend to see social media getting some blame or attention but in my book its the internet. The point where we could choose how to communicate (versus turning on an existing pipe like TV or radio). Not that black and white but you get the point. 

party on Garth. 

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5 hours ago, immamac said:Just because you voted for Trump doesn't make you a braindead piece of shit. Just because you are undecided doesn't make you a braindead piece of shit.

I believe it is fair to say some of these folks are not doing their civic duty to inform themselves about the state of the nation, and the facts on the ground. 

Others keep up with events, but willingly ignore facts that conflict with their chosen political narrative. I get how folks spin facts to align with their worldview. I don’t get folks who reject fact that is delivered by serious people, ie outlets with a reputation for factual accuracy. 
 

These folks reflexively hide from learning they are mistaken in their beliefs. Brain dead isn’t the correct term. Intellectual cowardice is more apt. Cowardice that has abetted great damage to this nation.

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45 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

they call themselves "the reasonablists" so that anyone talking about them will think that they're quite reasonable.  to which adam scott says, "that's actually kinda brilliant."

like sensible gun laws?

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1 minute ago, Mo Horn said:

The next 3 weeks are going to be crazy. Dotard and his minions are getting desperate and will be throwing all kinds of shit against the wall to see if they can get anything to stick. Child porn on "Hunter's computer" is just the beginning. 

fify

chris-farley-air-quotes.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Gatorubet said:


Yes. They are braindead fools.

Because sometimes there ARE only two paths - and one goes straight into the molten lava field.

You can take a 3rd or 4th alternate path, but only when they truly exist. This is a two path hike.

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on
And it makes me wonder...... what lava tastes like.

 

 

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Oh, it’ll go lower. There is no bottom. 

Obligatory...

urn-publicid-ap-org-e8e3e00f7017adef8eee

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1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

yes. for the fifteenth time from the fifteenth different person, YES, anyone who can't see how glaringly detrimental Donald Trump has been/will be for this country, its people, and its democracy, is a mother fucking brain dead fool. YES. the man is a proud bigot, racist, misogynist, and narcissist; he works with our enemies to sabotage our democracy; he lies to us about the severity of a global pandemic and gets thousand and thousands of people killed; he's an absolute moron who lies indiscriminately because he is an actual sociopath. he is more skin-thinned than anyone alive (even you), and he spends more time whining and trying to cancel people on twitter than a fifteen year old girl. he is the worst president in the history of the United States by a million miles. His term as president makes William Henry harrison's term look like a massive success. so YES. anyone who hesitates to vote against this guy is a brain dead fucking fool. period. 

the truth hurts

sure, maybe not as much as mistaking a tube of liquid nails for toothpaste... but it hurts

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2 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

I mean I know its kinda kinky and all but I have never understood why foot sex pisses so many people off.

We were learning greek or latin roots in high school and my kinda creepy high school english teacher was going over ped.  this is a i-swear-to-god quote from his class.

 

it can mean foot. like pedal.

it can mean child, like pediatrician.

it can mean teacher.  for instance i am a pe********

 

i'm doodling on my notebook or whatever and my head shot up when he said it, my eyes as big as saucers.  no one else realized anything.  he looks straight at me and said THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT! i'm dying laughing.

 

everyone figured out something weird just happened and i got mobbed after class.  what was that about? what happened? what did i miss?  it was nuts. 

 

 

*i asterisked because i am not going to type that sentence that "i am a __________" even when quoting something else.  the internet is forever.  but he said the actual word.

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